Sacramento, CA - OTA - Page 299

The basic 3db UHF-VHF 2 way splitter, often labeled "Hybrid splitter" for antenna use.

Not the same splitter type used for power pass through to Satellite equipment, with various loss ratings.

My experience with tv in Roseville showed "12" with average signal.
Sacramento stations were all strong to somewhat above average.
Bay Area stations showed 36, 42, 50, 54
San Francisco's Sutro Tower had Fading in / out cycles with unreliable service.

Antenna Used .... Channel Master CM-3018 (Outdoor testing)
It was installed in a Garage attic ... on a one story house. Fixed pointed to Hwy 5 Walnut Grove / Stockton
Excellent reception of all Sacramento stations.
Legends Way , Roseville

Sounds like something marketing came up with. It has no technical significance that I have ever heard of.

Chuck

The term "hybrid" is used all the time when referring to combiners and splitters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_d...ional_couplers

Ron

Quite true, although I never encountered it in the real world in connection with 2-way radio or television receiving apparatus. But yes, the term is fundamental in telephone technology, for example, and it simply means a passive device with one input with two or more outputs, or vice-versa--"hybrid coil" being the common usage.

However, back to the original suggestion that brought this up: using a "hybrid" as a two-input, one-output combiner to merge two television antennas into one downlead: you'd have to accept the loss through the combiner (and why would you want to?), and cope with any additional signal degradation caused by two active antennas being physically close to each other. You'd also have to ensure that the two downleads from the antennas to the combiner were exactly the same length, to avoid phase distortion--which means putting the antennas at exactly the same elevation on the mast, and that's tough to do.

Bottom line: the hybrid idea in this circumstance is basically okay in theory but it would fail the test of practicality for most installations. The A-B switch is far simpler and problem-free, and the rotor is simpler still. Bonus with the rotor: the $$ you save in not running RG-6 from a 2nd antenna will help pay for the rotor.

Of course you're right that hybrid is used to apply to some types of power dividers. I was only thinking of the common 2-way, bidirectional, both ports in phase splitter/combiner. That particular device is not a hybrid and labeling it as such sounds more like marketing than anything else. My mistake for not being specific. I'm not aware of any situations where a hybrid coupler such as a directional coupler or splitter/combiner with one port phase inverted would be used in a home TV antenna installation.

Chuck

The definition of a "hybrid" has been relaxed. From this link:

http://www.rfcafe.com/references/ele...l-couplers.htm

"The hybrid coupler, or 3 dB directional coupler, in which the two outputs are of equal amplitude takes many forms. Not too long ago the quadrature (90 degree) 3 dB coupler with outputs 90 degrees out of phase was what came to mind when a hybrid coupler was mentioned. Now any matched 4-port with isolated arms and equal power division is called a hybrid or hybrid coupler. Today the characterizing feature is the phase difference of the outputs. If 90 degrees, it is a 90 degree hybrid. If 180 degrees, it is a 180 degree hybrid. Even the Wilkinson power divider which has 0 degrees phase difference is actually a hybrid although the fourth arm is normally embedded."

The common splitter fits into that definition, so it is a hybrid. Just like a Wilkinson divider, the fourth port is internal.

Ron

Well maybe we're nit picking here but I'm not going to start calling a 2-way non-isolated port divider a hybrid just because someone else is getting sloppy with their terminology. A hybrid has to combine at least two different functions into one device. To me "isolated" means "isolator" which is a separate RF device so the above mentioned device would qualify as a hybrid.

Chuck

I've been reading as much as I can, but I really have no idea what I'm doing.

I have an RCA ANT800R mounted in my attic and a CM 7000. I am half way between Sacramento and Walnut Grove.

I've got the antenna in the attic and catch a lot of channels, but noticed that the channels I don't get are the ones without assigned virtual channels as listed on tvfool. Is there a piece of equipment I am missing in this equation? Am I just SOL on the non-virtual channel stations? I would love to catch kbtv-ca.

Any help is appreciated!

If they're not identified by virtual channel numbers, they're probably analog low powers or Class A stations that are still analog.

KBTV is virtual 8 I think and is on RF 51. It's a low power station and you might not be able to receive it without a roof mounted antenna pointed towards Sacramento.

What other stations do you see in the list that you cannot receive?

Chuck

Everything was working fine until last Friday. I was getting everything (3-1, 3-2, 6-x, 10-1, 13-1, 29-x, 31-1, 40-1, 40-2, 58-1/2, etc...).

Then no signal for 3 days for anything. No I'm getting some back but weak signals. I auto program my TV once a day now. These channels are coming and going, but generally still weak.

I'm in west roseville and pointed towards walnut using a CM 3010. Connections are good.

Any troubleshooting tips? If everyone else has good quality, maybe I need a new antenna?

You need a bigger antenna. Maybe a CM2018?

The CM3010 has next to zero UHF elements, and all local channels except KVIE & KXTV ("6" & 10) transmit on UHF. That doesn't explain why you had lots of channels before and then nothing, but nevertheless, it's a poor choice for an antenna anywhere in this area. I agree with the other post, a CM2018 ought to be a far better antenna for you. Even better, I'd consider a Winegard HD-7694P:

http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-HD769...2213505&sr=1-1

Where is your CM3010 mounted? In the clear high above your roof? The attic? Indoors? Anything but the first of those choices will get you marginal signals with that antenna. It needs to be retired and replaced, IMHO.

--Ron

Thanks for the suggestions fellas. Everything was going so well for 2 yrs with the cheaper antenna and it was mounted on the roof with a clear line of sight. I guess it's time to break out the checkbook.

Last Monday morning from about 1-1:15 AM I received KTXL FOX 40 via tropo in Bakersfield! Did anyone in Sacramento receive any Bakersfield stations very early Monday morning? Does tropo work in both directions at the same time?

I'll take a crack at this. Hopefully Calaveras will chime in later.

Tropo probably doesn't work in both directions at the same time. It's not impossible. One problem would be co-channel interference. To get the lucky catch, tropo may need to block a closer broadcaster on the same frequency. In addition, the conditions at the receive antennas need to be identical, while it's usual they are not.

I don't know if Calaveras has ever looked for Bakersfield channels. That's another problem in confirming your tropo catch.

Monday night was the first time I've encountered lingering breaks on rf 9 from Walnut Grove (KVIE) on one tv here. I'm guessing it was induced by stronger signal (multipath).

I just returned from a three week tour of the British Isles - England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. 95% of the TV antennas seen there were small UHF yagis with flat reflector screens. There was very little variation all over the four countries. Most homes had either an OTA antenna or satellite dish or both. All of our hotel rooms, except one, had wide screen TVs and many of the channels were in HD.

After settling in and unpacking, I tuned around the band yesterday afternoon and found some interesting signal variations from normal. KFTY from Mt. St. Helena up north was about 6 dB stronger than normal, KVIE, KCRA and KMAX from Walnut Grove were about 4 dB stronger than normal, KXTV was at normal level and KOVR and KQCA were much lower than normal - KOVR by about 3 dB and KQCA by about 5 dB.

It's interesting that frequency doesn't seem to come into play here. KVIE on 9 was way up, while KXTV on 10 was unchanged. KMAX on 21 and KCRA on 35 were up, but KOVR on 25 and KQCA on 46 were down. You'd think they'd all be up or all be down. ? ? ?

Larry
SF

There is a closer RF 40. KVPT PBS in Fresno is RF channel 40, virtual channel 18.

Yes, tropo works in both directions but you need to be in exactly the same location at both ends of the path. I monitor a ham radio repeater that's at 2500' above Palo Alto on 147 MHz all the time. If I'm hearing it well, it hears me well. I know another ham up in Arnold (4100') who monitors the same repeater. It's very common for conditions to be different for each of us.

The fact that you received KTXL probably means nothing for anyone receiving Bakersfield stations because the path is completely different.

It's almost impossible for me to receive Bakersfield here. I looked at the location of the major Bakersfield transmitters and they look to be up in Sierras somewhere. The beam heading from here is 150 degrees which means the path is over the lower part of the Sierras, too many ridges to cross for a 215 mile path.

I can occasionally receive Fresno here which is only 99 miles but still over many high ridges. I checked this morning and KNSO (RF12) and KSEE (RF 38) were both about SNR 20 dB. Those are the only Fresno stations I can receive some of the time. Rarely I can see others.

Chuck

Larry, as part of our new transmitter project/power increase, we began operating at half power on the old transmitter last Friday. That would be 3 dB down.

Bob

I experience the same wildly different conditions with frequency to Mt. Sutro and Mt. San Bruno. The rule is selective enhancement and the exception is all signals simultaneously enhanced.

OTOH, signals from Fremont Peak and Mt. Toro (I collectively call these "the Salinas stations") nearly always go up and down in unison. Sometimes one location has more enhancement than the other but rarely does the frequency matter.

On another note, I'm happy to report that after using my VHF antennas for about 3 months in their new configuration (2 antennas each with their own preamp and then combined) are working better than expected. KGO is probably better than 80% now (I can watch the 4pm news most days) and KCBA (FOX Salinas) is virtually 100%. KNTV which I rarely saw before is now about 50%. In my case high VHF is a much better performer than UHF is on distant stations. KGO would likely approach 100% if they'd run 100KW and KNTV still needs to turn their antenna around and put their 103 KW to the east instead of the ocean.

Chuck

Note: About the same time you upgraded your VHF antennas, I also began to get much better reception of KNTV without any change to my VHF antennas. I think your VHF improvement may in large part be due to current atmospheric conditions. I now find getting NBC in the evenings in Pollock Pines much more reliable from KNTV than KCRA which now drops out almost every evening after dark until morning. I am intensely incensed at the management of KCRA/Hearst for continuing to use its totally unsuitable high gain, narrow beam transmitting antenna which poorly serves the area with no plans to replace it.

The public continues to be deliberately kept in the dark by KCRA, uninformed and unaware that the KCRA/KQCA/KMAX broadcast antenna is technically inadequate and needs to be replaced. Only the TV stations themselves can provide on air news and information about technical transmission deficiencies to the general public who are not technically savvy and are unnecessarily made to waste time, money and effort on home antenna systems which will never fix their reception problems which shouldn't exist in the first place if broadcasters properly selected adequate transmitting antennas for this area!

I can rant and rave all I want on this website, but this never reaches the general public so they can make informed complaints to KCRA/Hearst's management en masse demanding that the KCRA/KQCA/KMAX broadcast antenna be replaced!!! Newspapers aren't about to publish such info about television problems. The public needs to know, and the TV stations won't tell them!!! Will it take the Goodyear blimp to get the word out???

Got my HD7694P mounted and all is well again!

I'll be watching to see how much better the KOVR signal is when you switch to the new transmitter!

Larry
SF

That could be a portion of it but there was as step improvement the day I made the upgrade and it's been that way since. I'll be waiting for this winter to see how it works when we get get storms and I'm sure of when we have no inversions. In the summer there seems to be inversions somewhere almost all the time that affect the signals one way or another.

Chuck

Good deal. I recommended that one based on its specs, not personal experience, so glad it worked out.

Hi,
Is 8.2 kbtv still RTV, or hot tv? Never heard of hot TV but I thought that's what I saw watermarked in the corner the other day.
Thanks

You can receive KBTV in Sonora? I never would have guessed that was possible. I rarely see it here, too weak and too much interference from KDTV.

I noticed that there are two stations with KBTV, KBTV-TV in Port Arthur, TX, and KBTV-CD in Sacramento. I know the FCC considers the complete call sign to be the actual call sign but I didn't know they permitted the base call sign to be reused in the same service at different locations.

Chuck

chuck, you mentioned earlier that your using a quad stack array, I'm curious what gear do you mount it with ? type of preamp you're using, do you a tin lee coupler to connect, the stack ? how high is your tower ps just curious i might be stackin a couple of 91xg soon.

jack