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Sacramento, CA - OTA - Page 302

post #9031 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

What happened? Bad time to be off the air with the 49ers game on in 1.5 hours if you depend on OTA.

Chuck

Edit: Back on the for the game but at 1/4 power or maybe less.

Edit 2: Now they're have all kinds of bit errors even though the signal is SNR 25 dB. I switched to KCBA. No problems there.

My thoughts exactly. I wasn't sure what to make of it when I turned on the tv this morning and KTXL was blank. Now that it's back, it appears to have plenty of signal strength, but breaks up anyway. (Glad to know it's not just me.)

Gee, it would be nice if someone at these stations would put something on their webpage or twitter or something when this stuff happens just so we'd know what's up, w/o thinking it might be on our end.

BTW, the 49ers score just became 23-23 if anyone cares.
post #9032 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

What happened? Bad time to be off the air with the 49ers game on in 1.5 hours if you depend on OTA.

Chuck

Edit: Back on the for the game but at 1/4 power or maybe less.

Edit 2: Now they're have all kinds of bit errors even though the signal is SNR 25 dB. I switched to KCBA. No problems there.

Digital 40 ... is on the air now in San Francisco.
Not saying this is the problem ... but maybe some signal there.
So use "FOX 35" now. (VHF 13) RF
post #9033 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post

Digital 40 ... is on the air now in San Francisco.
Not saying this is the problem ... but maybe some signal there.
So use "FOX 35" now. (VHF 13) RF

KTXL looks to be back to full power now. When it was off the air yesterday morning I looked at 40 on the analyzer to see if I could detect any signal from KMMC and I saw nothing.

Chuck
post #9034 of 10016
Looks like KOVR is on the back-up site this morning. I wouldn't have even noticed but I was taking advantage of this first storm to check the signals with no inversions present after I reverted back to 2 UHF antennas. The signal was down about 6 dB from what I expected but the SNR was the same as on the main site which is good news for me.

I have one modification left to perform before winter comes but 2 antennas 10' higher on the new tower seem to give equal performance to 4 antennas to Walnut Grove in terms of SNR and higher SNR than 10' lower on the old tower.

Chuck
post #9035 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

Looks like KOVR is on the back-up site this morning. I wouldn't have even noticed but I was taking advantage of this first storm to check the signals with no inversions present after I reverted back to 2 UHF antennas. The signal was down about 6 dB from what I expected but the SNR was the same as on the main site which is good news for me.

I have one modification left to perform before winter comes but 2 antennas 10' higher on the new tower seem to give equal performance to 4 antennas to Walnut Grove in terms of SNR and higher SNR than 10' lower on the old tower.

Chuck

On the main site but at 1/3 power.
post #9036 of 10016
For those interested in the details of TV station changes, here is a summary of what's happened in recent weeks in the San Francisco, Sacramento and Monterey markets:

RF 11 new station for Monterey dismissed
RF 11 KOTR Santa Cruz 1.85 kW on Loma Prieta Mt. - construction permit approved
RF 25 KOVR 13 Stockton now transmitting at 1000 kW
RF 26 KTFK 64 Stockton now transmitting at 850 kW
RF 32 KFTY 50 Santa Rosa is now KEMO airing Azteca America as of October 1. They have requested a power increase to 50 kW
RF 32 K32KK Stockton 5 kW at 272 feet to transmit from Hughson - construction permit approved
RF 39 K39JM Sacramento power increase to 15 kW - construction permit approved
RF 40 KMMC 40 San Francisco has switched to digital airing MTV-TR3S from Mt. San Bruno. They applied to increase their power from 3.2 to 44 kW. I don't know what they're running now.
RF 42 KPIX 5 translator Napa 1.28 kW on Mt Vaca - construction permit approved
RF 43 KMCE Monterey channel change from 46 to 43 and power increase to 15 kW - construction permit approved
RF 45 KBCW 44 San Francisco now licensed for 1000 kW
RF 49 K49KS Santa Rosa is licensed for digital operation at 1 kW with transmitter at 341 feet northeast of Santa Rosa (Has anyone seen this station on the air?)
RF 50 KTEH 54 San Jose call sign change to KQEH
RF 51 KBTV 8 Sacramento has requested a move from ch 51 to ch 27

Source: AVS Forum, W9WI monthly updates and FCC website

Larry
SF
post #9037 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

For those interested in the details of TV station changes, here is a summary of what's happened in recent weeks in the San Francisco, Sacramento and Monterey markets:

RF 11 new station for Monterey dismissed
RF 11 KOTR Santa Cruz 1.85 kW on Loma Prieta Mt. - construction permit approved
RF 25 KOVR 13 Stockton now transmitting at 1000 kW
RF 26 KTFK 64 Stockton now transmitting at 850 kW
RF 32 KFTY 50 Santa Rosa is now KEMO airing Azteca America as of October 1. They have requested a power increase to 50 kW
RF 32 K32KK Stockton 5 kW at 272 feet to transmit from Hughson - construction permit approved
RF 39 K39JM Sacramento power increase to 15 kW - construction permit approved
RF 40 KMMC 40 San Francisco has switched to digital airing MTV-TR3S from Mt. San Bruno. They applied to increase their power from 3.2 to 44 kW. I don't know what they're running now.
RF 42 KPIX 5 translator Napa 1.28 kW on Mt Vaca - construction permit approved
RF 43 KMCE Monterey channel change from 46 to 43 and power increase to 15 kW - construction permit approved
RF 45 KBCW 44 San Francisco now licensed for 1000 kW
RF 49 K49KS Santa Rosa is licensed for digital operation at 1 kW with transmitter at 341 feet northeast of Santa Rosa (Has anyone seen this station on the air?)
RF 50 KTEH 54 San Jose call sign change to KQEH
RF 51 KBTV 8 Sacramento has requested a move from ch 51 to ch 27

Source: AVS Forum, W9WI monthly updates and FCC website

Larry
SF

Where does he find his information? CDBS doesn't show the KOTR application for 1.85 KW as approved. I don't know where else to look. Same for the KMCE app to change to channel 43.

Another channel 32? That's turning into a graveyard channel here, much like the 1400's on the AM radio band. KEMO, KION, and now K32KK. Ugh!

What's the chance the FCC will approve 44 KW for an LP UHF station? Is there any precedence for more than 15 KW?

Chuck
post #9038 of 10016
A lot of the information I get is published by Doug Smith, W9WI, in the monthly "VHF-UHF Digest", the publication of the Worldwide TV FM and DX Association. Doug must get the information from the FCC somewhere, but I have no idea where that might be. His accuracy has been right on! You can email him at w9wi@w9wi.com. His website is http://www.w9wi.com and the WTFDA site is http://www.wtfda.org.

Larry
post #9039 of 10016
Bob, Any chance KOVR will back at full power before Amazing race is over tonight?
post #9040 of 10016
Quote from NYCDigital: has anyone in sf area ever receive the la stations btw of tropo ducting? is not possible, i can get boston 175 miles away when tropo is strong. i even gotten virginia beach 350 miles

Farthest I ever saw was pre digital. Picked up a channel in Amarillo, Tx from Pleasant Hill, Ca. (Over 1100 miles.) Was able to watch the entire news broadcast before it dropped out. I was able to see it better than any channel from S.F.

Post digital I've been able to pick up Channel 8 from Reno, Nv. frequently in Martinez, Ca. 180 miles give or take.
post #9041 of 10016
So much for "enjoying" OTA tonight in Martinez. First KOVR is off the air. KPIX has zip for a signal and now KNTV drops the audio. I guess I'll have to wait for HULU to post all the shows I'm missing. ;>
post #9042 of 10016
KOVR is not off the air but I think it's on the back-up site which Bob has said means not much signal to the west. It's weaker than KTFK here and the SNR is lower. I was lucky I got the Good Wife recorded.

Chuck
post #9043 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by slk230 View Post

Bob, Any chance KOVR will back at full power before Amazing race is over tonight?

Late answer.....

Here's the issue. Our new transmitter uses liquid cooled tubes as is the case with all high power UHF transmitters. The transmitter was installed as a turn-key by a very reputable manufacturer. Nearly every coolant plumbing connection has been leaking, however, and we demanded that the manufacturer come back and make things right.

We have been operating on our number 2 backup, which is the old transmitter at the main tower but switched over to our backup tower (solid state transmitter) late Sunday afternoon.

I'm hoping that everything will be back to normal (1MW) tomorrow.

Bob
post #9044 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by slk230 View Post

So much for "enjoying" OTA tonight in Martinez. First KOVR is off the air. KPIX has zip for a signal and now KNTV drops the audio. I guess I'll have to wait for HULU to post all the shows I'm missing. ;>

As I have said many times on this forum, when we are on the auxiliary tower site, we have no signal in the SF market. We use a directional antenna to cover the market with a 388 KW ERP and an instant-on solid state transmitter.

With three transmitters, it's nearly impossible for us to be "off-the-air" but some of you outside the market will be affected when either of our stations are operating from the auxiliary tower.

Bob
post #9045 of 10016
Bob,

I see KOVR has filed an application to raise your antenna by about 75'. Is that something you're hoping to do in 2012?

Chuck
post #9046 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

Bob,

I see KOVR has filed an application to raise your antenna by about 75'. Is that something you're hoping to do in 2012?

Chuck

Maybe, but if not 2012, probably 2013.
post #9047 of 10016
Sorry to hear about all the problems. I am getting a signal, just not enough to be of any value. My biggest complaint is I'm about half way between Walnut Grove and Sutro. I can get every station from Sutro EXCEPT KPIX. So when KOVR is off the air I have no CBS, which is of course what we happen to watch the most. ;< When we had analog, I could always get 12 out of Chico, alas no more even with the 7777 preamp and the biggest Channel Master Yagi made.
post #9048 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by slk230 View Post

Sorry to hear about all the problems. I am getting a signal, just not enough to be of any value. My biggest complaint is I'm about half way between Walnut Grove and Sutro. I can get every station from Sutro EXCEPT KPIX. So when KOVR is off the air I have no CBS, which is of course what we happen to watch the most. ;< When we had analog, I could always get 12 out of Chico, alas no more even with the 7777 preamp and the biggest Channel Master Yagi made.

Back at 1 MW.

- Bob
post #9049 of 10016
So as to minimize cross posting, the details and images are here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21071140

There was a tremendous duct this morning that allowed me to receive KEYT and KPMR from Santa Barbara. KPMR on RF 21 completely overrode KMAX.

Chuck
post #9050 of 10016
The California mountain Broadcast Peak reaches elevation greater than 4000 feet. This makes help from inversions at both locations very likely for Calaveras. KMAX blocked from Walnut Grove while long distance from the southwest is dialed in.

Were you aiming for Santa Barbara at the time?
post #9051 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaguy View Post

The California mountain Broadcast Peak reaches elevation greater than 4000 feet. This makes help from inversions at both locations very likely for Calaveras. KMAX blocked from Walnut Grove while long distance from the southwest is dialed in.

True. My horizon to the south is essentially 0 degrees.

Quote:


Were you aiming for Santa Barbara at the time?

Was I pointed to Santa Barbara? Yes. But as I explained on the thread linked above I discovered it by accident. A comment about NOAA wx radio got me to listen on the wx band where I heard the station from Broadcast Peak which in turn made me think to point the antennas south and look for those DTV stations.

Chuck
post #9052 of 10016
Living at the north end of Oroville looking Northeast at Table Mountain has proved interesting. I can get most Sacramento Channels better here than I could in Yuba City by aiming at the hill and gathering the reflections.
post #9053 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by N6ULO View Post

Living at the north end of Oroville looking Northeast at Table Mountain has proved interesting. I can get most Sacramento Channels better here than I could in Yuba City by aiming at the hill and gathering the reflections.

I want more details here. How far are you from Table Mountain? Are signals greater or just more reliable? Is your antenna outdoors? Do you have a rotor so that you can aim for Walnut Grove correctly? You're only around 90 miles away from Walnut Grove
post #9054 of 10016
deltaguy:

My TvFool plot looks like this:



By analyzing Google maps, I believe I am about 7000' Southwest of the "O" on the hill.

But I get most Sacramento stations by aiming at K42HL on Bloomer Hill.

The Antenna is a homemade Dual bay Gray-Hoverman on the back patio. Aiming due South at Walnut Grove only receives KRCR off the back.

I can get KCRA, KXTV, KTXL, KMAX and KOVR with 18 to 22 SNR but all are watchable day and night with minimal fade. I cannot reliably receive KVIE or KSPX, though.

I have not attempted to receive the Bay Area yet.
post #9055 of 10016
That's a mighty fine Mesa for television reception you've got there N6ULO. Thanks for the report.
post #9056 of 10016
Why was Criminal Minds not HD 16x9 last night? CSI was fine...
post #9057 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by N6ULO View Post

deltaguy:

My TvFool plot looks like this:

I can get KCRA, KXTV, KTXL, KMAX and KOVR with 18 to 22 SNR but all are watchable day and night with minimal fade. I cannot reliably receive KVIE or KSPX, though.

I have not attempted to receive the Bay Area yet.

And I thought my TVFool plot was bad. Yours is about the worst I've seen. It's likely the reason you have trouble with KVIE is because it's co-channel with KIXE and you're only 30 miles from it.

My TVFool results are linked below and I added my own dots to indicate how I receive the stations compared to what TVFool predicts. I also added a list of stations that should be on the list. The Reno and Fresno stations shouldn't even be on the list.

Chuck
LL
post #9058 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerdwn View Post

Why was Criminal Minds not HD 16x9 last night? CSI was fine...

Server issue. Had to resort to a SD backup.
post #9059 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

And I thought my TVFool plot was bad. Yours is about the worst I've seen. It's likely the reason you have trouble with KVIE is because it's co-channel with KIXE and you're only 30 miles from it.

My TVFool results are linked below and I added my own dots to indicate how I receive the stations compared to what TVFool predicts. I also added a list of stations that should be on the list. The Reno and Fresno stations shouldn't even be on the list.

Chuck

I am sure I could probably pick up KIXE by peaking on KRCR, but I have not tried yet. It's amazing how well signals bounce off the hill, thank God I am so close to it. The funny thing is, when Sacramento fades out (about 5-10% of the time) all signals go together and sometimes I get plenty of signal but a high error rate. Sometimes I can't pick up anything at all except analog 8.

The antenna is only up 12' or so right now. I will see about going higher when I am done unpacking.

-Ken
Ken
post #9060 of 10016
Is KCRA 3 on a different antenna or on back up power? They usually average about 20 dB SNL here, but they're now down in the 13 dB range lately. Of course that means "No signal", no picture. All of the other stations are showing their average signal, or better. KQCA 58, in fact, has been 2 to 3 dB stronger than normal lately.

Larry
SF
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