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post #9121 of 10016
One question would be does this only happen in programs that have real 5.1 audio? There is equipment in the signal path that does something similar to pro-logic to make fake 5.1 from stereo sources. That is only supposed to happen if the program is stereo. Maybe it is doing its thing occasionally when it should not? The master control operators have no way to affect any of this. They do not even have any audio level controls. Because of all the complaints about loud commercials and recent government action there is now also a box that does automatic level control down stream of the air switcher.
post #9122 of 10016
I was referring to ABC network dramas, many of which are in the 10:00-11:00PM slot that all light up as Dolby 5.1 audio. Castle and Detroit 1-8-7 come to mind where the squad room or crime scene background chatter will sometimes overpower the foreground characters dialog.
post #9123 of 10016
Sadly we have lost the last analog station that had a decent signal- channel 23 went digital on Thursday (they mostly run the Home Shopping Network except for one hour of Spanish news late Saturday nights probably as an FCC requirement; they're owned by the same company that owns channels 19 and 64.) Now the only analog stations that come in on my TV are 15, which barely registers a signal, and 45 which is semi-legible. I guess I soon will have to resort hooking a VCR's RF output up should I want to partake in any analog goodness now.
post #9124 of 10016
Aha! That's why KMUV analog 23 Salinas has been interference free here for a couple of days. I never knew it could look so good. I can barely detect KEZT on 23, way too weak to receive here. I'll have to check KRCB more often to see if less interference means more reception.

I wonder if this means KEXT 27 is about to go digital? It's the last really strong analog station here. It's owned by the same people as KEZT and applied for a digital permit on the same day back in 2008.

From my point of view it's time for all these analog LPs to either convert or sign off. I can receive ranging from very weak to very strong; 2, 14, 15, 23, 27, 33 (when it's on), 34, 43 (might be off), 45, and 49.

Chuck
post #9125 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

From my point of view it's time for all these analog LPs to either convert or sign off. I can receive ranging from very weak to very strong; 2, 14, 15, 23, 27, 33 (when it's on), 34, 43 (might be off), 45, and 49.
Chuck

I'm surprised that there are still that many analog stations on the air! Here in San Francisco we no longer receive any analog stations. KMMC 40 was our last analog station and it went digital a few months ago.

Where are all of these analog stations located? Most of the channels you listed have digital stations on the air here in the Bay Area: 14, 23, 27, 33, 34, 43, 45 and 49.

It is my understanding that all analog stations have to switch to digital or go off the air by the end of this year. Is that still true?

Larry
SF
post #9126 of 10016
September 1, 2015 is the deadline for low-power stations.

- Trip
post #9127 of 10016
Quote:


Where are all of these analog stations located?

2 - KOTR Mt. Toro
14 - KAZV Mt. OSO
15 - K15CU Fremont Peak
23 - KMUV Fremont Peak
27 - KEXT Mt. Oso
29 - K29AB Fremont Peak
33 - KDJT Fremont Peak
34 - KACA Modesto
43 - KMCE Fremont Peak (also now K46LG-D)
45 - K45HC Walnut Grove
49 - K49EO Modesto

Try using the FCC TV Query for LP analogs. There must be hundreds of them in Northern California alone. I'm betting a lot of them will go off the air by Sept. 1, 2015.

KEXT is a real waste of spectrum. It broadcasts Telefutura but KTFK carries Telefutura as its main channel and KUVS carries it as its sub channel. Those two full power stations almost completely duplicate the KEXT service contour.

Chuck
post #9128 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

September 1, 2015 is the deadline for low-power stations.
- Trip

Wow! I sure was way off on my thinking it was the end of this year.

Thanks, Trip.

Larry
SF
post #9129 of 10016
Anyone in the Sacto area not getting 10-1 either? All my other channels are good. KVIE (6) is sometimes spotty but watchable. I lost my signal a few days ago.

I'm using a Winegard HD7694P and everything still is in place outside.
post #9130 of 10016
No problem here with KXTV or KVIE.

Chuck
post #9131 of 10016
Both KVIE 6 and KXTV 10 are coming in fine here in San Francisco.

Conditions have been rather good the last few days and the signal strength has been above average on all of the stations from Walnut Grove.

Larry
SF
post #9132 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattyboi View Post

Anyone in the Sacto area not getting 10-1 either? All my other channels are good. KVIE (6) is sometimes spotty but watchable. I lost my signal a few days ago.

I'm using a Winegard HD7694P and everything still is in place outside.

UPDATE

So I tested my antenna signal using my laptop's OTA tuner and I'm receiving ALL signals again, even KPIX in SF. KXTV is 100%.

So do you guys think the problem lies with my HDTV's (bought 2011) built in tuner?
post #9133 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattyboi View Post

UPDATE

So I tested my antenna signal using my laptop's OTA tuner and I'm receiving ALL signals again, even KPIX in SF. KXTV is 100%.

So do you guys think the problem lies with my HDTV's (bought 2011) built in tuner?

So you took the cable off the TV and connected it to you laptop tuner with no other changes? If that's the case then it must be the TV.

Did you try doing a rescan from scratch on the TV?

Chuck
post #9134 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

So you took the cable off the TV and connected it to you laptop tuner with no other changes? If that's the case then it must be the TV.

Did you try doing a rescan from scratch on the TV?

Chuck

Thanks Chuck!

I actually figured out the real problem. (I must first admit that I connected the laptop tuner directly to the first, outdoor wire leading from the antenna -- not from the living wall's outlet where the TV usually connects).

The problem was that I found the winegard PS-1503, which is a pre-amp power supply, was fried/melted. I installed this at the end of main coax line where it inputs into a master panel, where it then splits the signal to all the rooms.

So my antenna's fine and the signal is consistently high quality again. And I'm LUCKY a fire didn't start.
post #9135 of 10016
As of yesterday, KCSO-3 (33-3) is active with Country Network. 24/7 country music channel.
post #9136 of 10016
Thanks for the info, Bookcollector. I used the information to update my DTV channel lists.

Larry
SF
post #9137 of 10016
KMAX is on the back-up transmitter this morning in case anyone is having reception problems.

Chuck
post #9138 of 10016
Hello

This is my first post on the forum. I appreciate all the good information available here!

I am ready to part ways with my sattelite provider. I live off of Baseline Road about seven miles west of Roseville.

I did a little experimenting with rabit ears at my brothers house and found that I could receive a few channels, but not several that are important to me.

I want to receive:

33-2 KCSO METV
33-3 Country (KCSO)
3 KCRA and subchannels
6 KVIE

On the broadcast maps, it says I should receive KCSO, but it doesn't specify about the substation for METV. Does anyone in the area receive this channel?

Will I have trouble receiving the other channels I hope to have?

What outdoor antenna and receiver should I get to maximize long distance reception?

I live in a flat area without obstuctions for about a mile to the south (few small trees, no houses).

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide!

Glenn
post #9139 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennunderwood View Post

Will I have trouble receiving the other channels I hope to have?

What outdoor antenna and receiver should I get to maximize long distance reception?

I live in a flat area without obstuctions for about a mile to the south (few small trees, no houses).

I looked at your area in Google Earth with the transmitter signal strength overlays from TV Fool. All the Walnut Grove stations are very strong and should be very easy to receive with an antenna like this:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...tenna-(HD7696P)

I receive KCSO and it has the sub channels you list. KCSO is a special case. It is on channel 3, low VHF, where KCRA was forever. It transmits from Angels Camp on an almost 3000' mountain. In order to receive that, you'll need an antenna with low VHF. Something like this should do it:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...tenna-(CM-3679)

I didn't check yet how different the heading to KCSO is from all the other stations but you may be able to receive KCSO without turning the antenna. Those antennas have very broad beam widths on low VHF which would work to your advantage.

You do not need a preamp and in fact shouldn't even try one with such strong signals from Walnut Grove.

Chuck

Edit: Here's the TVFool report for your location.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...0b86f9de774d4c

KCSO is about 25 degree east of Walnut Grove but you should still be able to receive it. It's plenty strong. I see you might be able to receive the Chico stations if you turned your antenna around.
post #9140 of 10016
Thank you Chuck!

I still have a couple of questions...

I notice that KCSO broadcasts at what seems like a very low power (3kw), especially for a transmitter that is about 55 miles away from me.

Is that normal? It seems that most other stations broadcast at a higher watt level.

Thanks for directing me to the Solid Signal site. The 3679 is rated for 50 miles VHF and 60 miles UHF. If I went with the deepest fringe model CM3671, would there be any down side, such as problems receiving closer channels or bleed over?

Thank you again for helping me to learn this subject!
post #9141 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennunderwood View Post

Thank you Chuck!

I still have a couple of questions...

I notice that KCSO broadcasts at what seems like a very low power (3kw), especially for a transmitter that is about 55 miles away from me.

Is that normal? It seems that most other stations broadcast at a higher watt level.

Thanks for directing me to the Solid Signal site. The 3679 is rated for 50 miles VHF and 60 miles UHF. If I went with the deepest fringe model CM3671, would there be any down side, such as problems receiving closer channels or bleed over?

Thank you again for helping me to learn this subject!

Your welcome Glenn. Bigger is better so the CM3671 is good.

KCSO is a low power station so they're limited to less power by the FCC. Low VHF requires less power than high VHF. You'll see that KVIE is 33KW compared to say KOVR on UHF that is 1000KW. With equal antennas, they produce about the same signal strength. Low VHF (channels 2-6) require even less power for an equal signal. Low power VHF stations are often only 0.3KW. KCSO received special permission from the FCC to up their power to 3KW because they had a lot of initial complaints from viewers who could no longer receive them (probably people with indoor antennas or no low VHF antenna) when they switched from channel 33 to channel 3. So 3KW is actually exceptionally high power for a low VHF low power station.

The problem with low VHF digital is that it's subject to manmade noise, like power line noise. Those annoying sparkles you used to see on low VHF analog stations are deadly to digital stations. With line-of-sight to KCSO and a good outdoor antenna, you should be able to receive them unless you have a bad case of power line noise. Lightning noise is also a big problem on low VHF but not so much in Sacramento.

I've attached a screen capture from Google Earth centered on about where you said you are with the KCSO transmitter overlay. As long as you're in the cyan area and not one of those blue areas, you should be okay. The blue areas indicate terrain shadowing.

If you put up this antenna and receive everything except KCSO, then come back and we'll see what the next step is.

If you take those rabbit ears, extend them to 88" across, and place them outdoors with a clear view to the southeast, you should have a reasonable chance to check your KCSO reception.

Chuck
LL
post #9142 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

Your welcome Glenn. Bigger is better so the CM3671 is good.

KCSO is a low power station so they're limited to less power by the FCC. Low VHF requires less power than high VHF. You'll see that KVIE is 33KW compared to say KOVR on UHF that is 1000KW. With equal antennas, they produce about the same signal strength. Low VHF (channels 2-6) require even less power for an equal signal. Low power VHF stations are often only 0.3KW. KCSO received special permission from the FCC to up their power to 3KW because they had a lot of initial complaints from viewers who could no longer receive them (probably people with indoor antennas or no low VHF antenna) when they switched from channel 33 to channel 3. So 3KW is actually exceptionally high power for a low VHF low power station.

The problem with low VHF digital is that it's subject to manmade noise, like power line noise. Those annoying sparkles you used to see on low VHF analog stations are deadly to digital stations. With line-of-sight to KCSO and a good outdoor antenna, you should be able to receive them unless you have a bad case of power line noise. Lightning noise is also a big problem on low VHF but not so much in Sacramento.

I've attached a screen capture from Google Earth centered on about where you said you are with the KCSO transmitter overlay. As long as you're in the cyan area and not one of those blue areas, you should be okay. The blue areas indicate terrain shadowing.

If you put up this antenna and receive everything except KCSO, then come back and we'll see what the next step is.

If you take those rabbit ears, extend them to 88" across, and place them outdoors with a clear view to the southeast, you should have a reasonable chance to check your KCSO reception.

Chuck

Thanks that's great information!

I do have giant power lines about 1/2 --1 mile from my house that run diagonally between my place and the transmitter. It sounds like the power lines will be my only concern.

I hope it works.
post #9143 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennunderwood View Post

Thanks that's great information!

I do have giant power lines about 1/2 --1 mile from my house that run diagonally between my place and the transmitter. It sounds like the power lines will be my only concern.

I hope it works.

Oh yeah. I can see them easily on Google Earth, 2 sets of 4 wires. Those are at least 115 KV and as high as 500 KV. Hard to say if those will be a problem or not. They're certainly not too far away to cause a problem on channel 3. It won't be an issue on UHF and likely not an issue on high VHF.

Chuck
post #9144 of 10016
I bought a new led tv today after work and hooked it up to rabbit ears to check the reception (rabbit ears outside the window).

To my surprise, we receive 37 channels, including all major Sacramento channels and substations, a few bay area channels, some weird stuff.

We didn't receive KCSO, but we're not supposed to with rabbit ears.

I also ordered a Winegard 8200 and rotor from the site you recommended. I can't wait to rescan after I set up the antenna.

Funny thing. After I tested the rabbit ear reception, I hooked up to the satellite dish and it seemed like the picture was worse through the satellite.

Thanks for all your help. I'll post up my results when I get the antenna setup in a week or two. It looks like a considerable amount of work.
post #9145 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennunderwood View Post

I bought a new led tv today after work and hooked it up to rabbit ears to check the reception (rabbit ears outside the window).

To my surprise, we receive 37 channels, including all major Sacramento channels and substations, a few bay area channels, some weird stuff.

Wow! You must be in a really good location, Glenn, to receive Bay Area channels with just a "rabbit ears" antenna. I'd be interested in hearing which ones you received up there.

That new antenna should bring in lots of stations. With the rotor you'll be able to get Sacramento/Stockton stations from Walnut Grove, stations from Modesto, the Bay Area, and even Chico and Paradise. You'll get channel 3, too.

Let us know how good your new antenna works for you.

Larry
SF
post #9146 of 10016
Recent promo on KOVR-DT stated,

"Most stations can get only as close to the news as their vans will allow but with Mobile 13 CBS13 can get you closer than ever...".

What is this technology?
post #9147 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by edDV View Post

Recent promo on KOVR-DT stated,

"Most stations can get only as close to the news as their vans will allow but with Mobile 13 CBS13 can get you closer than ever...".

What is this technology?

Probably some reporter with a iPhone or similar in his hand.
post #9148 of 10016
Probably a system like this:

see www.liveu.tv and www.liveu.tv/technology.html

There are other vendors of similar systems. KXTV has the liveu system.
post #9149 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by edDV View Post

Recent promo on KOVR-DT stated,

"Most stations can get only as close to the news as their vans will allow but with Mobile 13 CBS13 can get you closer than ever...".

What is this technology?

We use a TVU pack. Google it. We compared with others. This one was by far superior but the technology changes daily. We bought the first one here in this market. Soon you will see all of the local news stations with something similar and most likely multiple units.
post #9150 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Wow! You must be in a really good location, Glenn, to receive Bay Area channels with just a "rabbit ears" antenna. I'd be interested in hearing which ones you received up there.

That new antenna should bring in lots of stations. With the rotor you'll be able to get Sacramento/Stockton stations from Walnut Grove, stations from Modesto, the Bay Area, and even Chico and Paradise. You'll get channel 3, too.

Let us know how good your new antenna works for you.

Larry
SF

I re-scanned again tonight without adjusting the rabbit ears and I now have 55 channels, including many SF channels!

And for the first time, I'm receiving METV on 20-2!!! Here is a list of the channels I'm receiving. Very few, marked "intermittent", cut out. I am very pleased and can't wait to run my antenna up on a 25 foot mast.

3-1 KCRA
3-2 More TV
4-1 KRON
4-2 KRON-SD
5-1 KPIX-DT
6-1 KVIE HD
6-2 KVIE 2
6-3 KVIE me
8-1 KBTV CD
8-2 KBTV CD History of Television
8-3 KBTV CD
8-4 KBTV CD
8-5 KBTV CD
8-6 KBTV CD
9-1 KQED (intermittent)
9-2 KQEH-DT (intermittent)
9-3 World (intermittent)
10-1 KXTV-DT
10-2 Live Well
13-1 KOVR-DT
15 ? (no station ID)
19-1 KUVS-DT
19-2 KUVS-DT
20-1 KOFY-HD
20-2 METV
20-5 KOFY-HD (mode not supported)
22 (analog)
23-1 KEZT-CD
28-1 ? tr3s
28-2 (Voice w/ phone number only-shopping)
29-1 ION
29-2 QUBO
29-3 ION Life
31-1 KMAX -DT
32-2 World Ch (intermittent)
32-4 WTV
32-5 NTD
38-1 KCNS RTV
38-2 KCNS-2
38-3 KCNS-4
40-1 KXTL-TV
40-2 Ant TV
42-1 KTNC-SF
42-1 KMSX-LD
42-2 KNTC-SA
42-2 KMSX-LD
42-3 KNTC-Th
42-3 KMSX--LD
42-4 KTNC-Br
42-4 KMSX-LD
50-1 KFTYDT
58-1 KQCA
58-2 This TV
64-1 KTFK-DT
64-2 KTFK2
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