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Sacramento, CA - OTA - Page 312

post #9331 of 10016
ChannelMaster makes an OTA DVR.
http://www.channelmastertv.com/solution_s/12.htm
post #9332 of 10016
looking at it closely they do not charge for the DVR function but do charge 9.95 a month for the guide, nothing is Free, The channel master unit is the only one that is however
you pay the higher cost up front
post #9333 of 10016
An inexpensive OTA DVR? Really. With any Hauppauge USB stick DTV tuner you get free WinTV v7 software that includes a DVR function that can work with multiple Hauppauge tuners if your PC computer has a sufficiently fast multi-core CPU. WinTV v7 software also automatically interfaces with the online Titan TV Program Guide at NO COST to schedule full 1080i HDTV program recordings. I have the Hauppauge WinTV aero-m USB tuner. It works great, and I use it all the time to make recordings. It requires a PC with a minimum 2.6-2.8 GHz single-core or 1.8 GHz multi-core CPU for HD reception. My old PC receives HDTV just fine with an AMD Athlon 64 4000+ 2.6 GHz socket 754 CPU upgrade and Windows XP. The Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-850 USB2 tuner is also a popular PC tuner for about $55. If you don't like WinTV v7, Windows Media Center also works with Hauppauge tuners. If you already have a fast enough PC and $55, that's all you need to spend for a DVR.
Edited by Smoke_signal - 11/11/12 at 12:55am
post #9334 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke_signal View Post

An inexpensive OTA DVR? Really. With any Hauppauge USB stick DTV tuner you get free WinTV v7 software that includes a DVR function.....

I've only given these a cursory look in the past because it appeared as though the only choice was to watch on your PC. Is there an option that allows you watch on your big screen TV using a PC based DVR? It doesn't appear as though the Hauppauge does that. For the time being my DTVPal DVR fills the bill but I'd like to know about other options should this fail someday. I would consider a laptop plus an external tuner box located at the TV but I don't want a PC tower out there. Two tuners and the ability to record both at the same time is a must.

Chuck
post #9335 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTEL08 View Post

Do you already have a pc with windows media center on it KG07R?
adding a hdhomerun dual tuner to it = roughly $150
get an old xbox 360 for under $100 as a media center extender, and one of the old white media center remotes for about $10 and your all ready to plug in and enjoy a really good ota set up with no monthly fees on your (hd)tv.
whereas a tivo premiere with lifetime service is upwards of $700 at least and is much more costly to expand. even if you had to buy a pc with windows 7 youd still be ahead of going the tivo route.

I second this recommendation. I use Windows Media Center on a PC connected to a HDHomeRun dual tuner ($89 at Amazon) and 2 Hauppauge USB tuners. I'm able to record 4 shows at one time with no problem on a 5-year-old PC, and still use the PC as a PC. I ran an Ethernet cable from my PC to a media extender connected to my big-screen TV. My Samsung media extender is no longer sold, but I understand that any Xbox will do an even better job.

If I were to start from scratch, I'd get 2 HDHomeRuns - they are more stable and versatile than the USB tuners.

Bob
post #9336 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

I've only given these a cursory look in the past because it appeared as though the only choice was to watch on your PC. Is there an option that allows you watch on your big screen TV using a PC based DVR? It doesn't appear as though the Hauppauge does that. For the time being my DTVPal DVR fills the bill but I'd like to know about other options should this fail someday. I would consider a laptop plus an external tuner box located at the TV but I don't want a PC tower out there. Two tuners and the ability to record both at the same time is a must.
Chuck
If your big screen TV has a computer input, you can view ANYTHING from your PC. If Your PC is multi-core and fast enough, you can plug in multiple Hauppauge USB tuners and view and record multiple HDTV programs simultaneously with WinTV v7 software.
post #9337 of 10016
If you want to watch it elsewhere via the network or or watch the recordings to a portable device, you need to purchase WinTV7.2 w/Extend. With shipping,it's around $13.

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/support/support_wintv7.html
post #9338 of 10016
the thing about watching tv from pc is you need a really good video card for the OTA HD quality to come thru. and if you do have a good pc set up, those video cards run HOT and burn up quick.

whereas if you use an xbox 360 as an extender, that is made to output excellent video. you can use any cheapo pc that has WMC as a server bc youre only relying on the processor. brand new 360s are selling for $100, you can prolly go to any gaming store and pick up one up for super cheap.

and if you really want to splurge you can get xbox live for $40/year and theres a list as long as your sleeve of all the different apps available with that service, nice, but not necessary at all if all you want is the dvr aspect
post #9339 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTEL08 View Post

the thing about watching tv from pc is you need a really good video card for the OTA HD quality to come thru. and if you do have a good pc set up, those video cards run HOT and burn up quick.
My old AMD Socket 754 motherboard-based PC displays HDTV just fine with an inexpensive GeForce 6200 AGP 8X video card. That card does not even have an onboard video processor cooling fan. If you have a video card that's overheating, you probably need more cooling fans in your PC chassis. I added and upgraded my CPU and chassis cooling fans when I upgraded my Athlon 64 CPU to 2.6 Ghz. It runs nice and cool. What DOES effect HDTV display quality is a CPU that does not run fast enough to keep up with the OTA signal and/or running other PC applications while viewing HDTV. Newer PC towers are quite small today, and an Xbox 360 is 12.15 x 10.15 x 3.27 inches. A good PC tower is much cheaper than a good laptop PC. So what's the big advantage about using an Xbox 360 and not just running a short HDMI or DVI or VGA cable from your small nearby PC tower to your big screen TV to do your DVR viewing? It only makes sense if you have a big PC system that you don't want to move out of your office.
post #9340 of 10016
if you have the extra HTPC(s) laying around that meets all the reqs, have all the remotes, bluetooth and what not, all the power to you.

i dont know that most people have all that, or that they would want that. i could just imagine being at work and having to coach my wife or kids thru any updates or messages that pop up in a pc environment

we have 2 360s on seperate tvs, networked to the WMC server, its better than any whole home dvr a cable company WISHES it could over charge their customers for. i like using the 360 controller because its RF, whereas the better half and the kids prefer the white remote. and the netflix and other video apps on xbox live are very intuitive.

and oh yeah, ya cant play halo 4 on a pc wink.gif
post #9341 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTEL08 View Post

and oh yeah, ya cant play halo 4 on a pc wink.gif
We are just talking about the most inexpensive OTA DVR system, NOT a complete entertainment/gaming system if you are so hooked on that stuff. The PC route is the most economical DVR for viewing on one big screen HDTV, and you DON"T need all those extras you cite to connect it. Just ONE HDMI or DVI or VGA cable and that's it!!!
post #9342 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke_signal View Post

The PC route is the most economical DVR for viewing on one big screen HDTV,

xbox 360s are much cheaper than any pc, you can easily find a used one for under $100

if you move your pc to your tv, then you have to turn your tv on every time you want to do your computer business, and that doesnt sound very practical to me.
post #9343 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTEL08 View Post

xbox 360s are much cheaper than any pc, you can easily find a used one for under $100
if you move your pc to your tv, then you have to turn your tv on every time you want to do your computer business, and that doesnt sound very practical to me.
Your argument is absurd. So you like Xboxes and playing computer games. You HAVE TO HAVE a PC, Windows Media Center software, and USB tuners to record and watch TV on your stupid Xboxes!!!!

If all you want to do is record and watch HDTV (NOT play games) on ONE big HDTV and already own a PC with a fast enough CPU, all you need is a $55 Hauppauge USB tuner, free WinTV v7 software, an HDMI or DVI or VGA or DVI-to-HDMI cable, and maybe an audio cable if your PC has no HDMI output. Most graphics cards, including my eVGA GeForce 6200 AGP card, have TWO video outputs, DVI and VGA, that can support both an HDTV and computer monitor simultaneously! You don't need to turn on your TV every time you use your PC!!!

STOP confusing everybody with your UNNECESSARY references to the Xbox 360. Many people DO NOT HAVE THE EXTRA MONEY OR TIME TO WASTE ON GAMES AND TOYS! Nothing prevents anyone from buying an Xbox at a later date if they want to. They STILL need the PC and USB tuners they will already have!!!!
post #9344 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke_signal View Post

Your argument is absurd. So you like Xboxes and playing computer games. You HAVE TO HAVE a PC, Windows Media Center software, and USB tuners to record and watch TV on your stupid Xboxes!!!!
If all you want to do is record and watch HDTV (NOT play games) on ONE big HDTV and already own a PC with a fast enough CPU, all you need is a $55 Hauppauge USB tuner, free WinTV v7 software, an HDMI or DVI or VGA or DVI-to-HDMI cable, and maybe an audio cable if your PC has no HDMI output. Most graphics cards, including my eVGA GeForce 6200 AGP card, have TWO video outputs, DVI and VGA, that can support both an HDTV and computer monitor simultaneously! You don't need to turn on your TV every time you use your PC!!!
STOP confusing everybody with your UNNECESSARY references to the Xbox 360. Many people DO NOT HAVE THE EXTRA MONEY OR TIME TO WASTE ON GAMES AND TOYS! Nothing prevents anyone from buying an Xbox at a later date if they want to. They STILL need the PC and USB tuners they will already have!!!!

please calm down, and cut back on the rude reactions. theres no need to get upset, or put words in my mouth just b/c i dont agree with you. i dont think im confusing anyone, another board member has seconded my opinion actually, the 360 stands on its own as a wmc extender.

most ppl only have one pc. home pcs are not living room friendly. if one moved their pc to their living room, how do you suggest ppl do their daily computer tasks? running mouse keyboard and vga wires all over the place to wherever their home office is? putting a computer desk right by your entertainment center? i dont think thats something the vast majority of ppl would find to be a good use of their pc.

so that leaves the choice of

a) buying a second pc, most likely a dedicated HTPC
b) buying a wmc extender

b is by far the cheaper, much more hassle free solution
post #9345 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTEL08 View Post

so that leaves the choice of
a) buying a second pc, most likely a dedicated HTPC
b) buying a wmc extender
b is by far the cheaper, much more hassle free solution
Hmmm... Let's see...

Amazon's price for a new basic standard 4GB Xbox 360 console is $180. On eBay you might get into a bidding war and maybe place a winning bid for a used one for under $130 with all the pieces still intact. A decent 50 foot ethernet crossover cable to connect your PC to the Xbox 360 is $16. Now you still need to have Windows Media Center on your PC. If you only have your basic Windows XP Home Edition and NOT Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005, you are going to have to upgrade to a new Windows operating system. Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 won't be supported by Microsoft after mid-2014 and is very costly from the few vendors still selling it, so you will need to upgrade to Windows 7 or 8 Premium Home Edition. Amazon sells the Windows 7 Premium Home Edition Upgrade package for $98. Then, to install it, you will spend many hours (days) performing a "clean" operating system upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7 and hope that everything on your computer will still work afterwards. The sum total for all this is $244 to $294 plus any shipping or sales tax plus hours or days of tedium and frustration installing Windows 7 Premium Home Edition. That doesn't even consider any software or hardware that you now need to replace because it no longer works under Windows 7 costing still more $$$.

No thanks. I think I'd rather move my PC near a big screen HDTV to watch DVR recordings on it...

P.S. If you can put up with not being able to skip the TV commercials, you might consider an HDMI or DVI digital extender:
http://www.amazon.com/J-Tech-Digital-Extender-Certified-Bandwidth/dp/B003EE8OL6/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

For cable runs less than 100 ft, you can inexpensively extend both HDMI and USB connections to your HDTV and have a second remote USB keyboard and mouse by your couch. For a 50-60 ft run, the total cost for all the cable, wires, active HDMI and USB extender/repeaters, keyboard and mouse needed is just under $120 including tax and shipping from Monoprice.com. You just need to figure out a neat way to run the cables.
Edited by Smoke_signal - 11/20/12 at 12:06am
post #9346 of 10016
OK guys, move on...
post #9347 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerdwn View Post

For at least the past week, I have been seeing intermittent problem on KOVR. The video goes to horizontal/diagonal lines then goes black with no audio. About 10 seconds later it comes back on and is normal. It has happened at least 3 times that I have recorded during primetime. Once was CSI something, then just tonight it happened at the very beginning of Amazing Race.


Note: These were recorded off Comcast cable KOVR CH713 (I rarely use OTA since getting a 4 tuner Tivo Elite and dumping Dish Network). I posted the problem here because this thread gets way more exposure than the Comcast thread AND this problem ONLY happens on KOVR.

KOVR -
Exact same problem is back-
Last Sunday night's Amazing Race (not sure what time)
Last night's Criminal Minds at about 52 minute mark
post #9348 of 10016
Is anyone having terrible reception because of the weather? I have an indoor HD antenna that is placed upstairs. I usually have no problem receiving all standard channels (minus ch. 10) upstairs and lately about half of the channels are out. Thanks.
post #9349 of 10016
My reception hasn't been 'terrible' but have noticed a few more dropouts than usual. What's most noticeable is KBTV channel 8 now barely registers a signal. I thought they were completely off the air, but checking the TV's signal meter it still shows up, and playing with the antenna I can get it to come in for a second before dropping out again. Their transmitter is practically in my back yard, so either it's gone to REALLY low power or else they've moved to another location. Since they put the color bars back on 8-4, that has been my default channel. (8-1 has had sound in the left channel lower than the right for a while, and 8-6 has been out of sync, was hoping they'd be fixing that.) 23 still comes in, which is on the same tower. (They've been showing lots of analog noise from their HSN satellite feed!)
post #9350 of 10016
My signals have been degraded a bit from what I assume is wet vegetation, especially UHF. DTV doesn't like antennas moving in the wind either which mine do when it blows like the last few days. Signals are much improved tonight now that the wind has stopped and the trees and brush are drying out.

Chuck
post #9351 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

My signals have been degraded a bit from what I assume is wet vegetation, especially UHF. DTV doesn't like antennas moving in the wind either which mine do when it blows like the last few days. Signals are much improved tonight now that the wind has stopped and the trees and brush are drying out.
Chuck

Is it possible that water, which can't attenuate television signals according to science, can bend tv signals? That could raise hell with the location/aim of a receive antenna.
post #9352 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucdgrad View Post

Is anyone having terrible reception because of the weather? I have an indoor HD antenna that is placed upstairs. I usually have no problem receiving all standard channels (minus ch. 10) upstairs and lately about half of the channels are out. Thanks.

Channel 10 (rf 10) and KVIE (rf 9) have transmit antennas that are not polarized the same. You may need to aim your antenna differently for KXTV.
If you are getting KVIE, there's a good chance for KXTV as well. I'm not suggesting a slight change in antenna aim here. It could be as large as 180 degrees. The best way of antenna aiming is one channel at a time. Good Luck.
post #9353 of 10016
One uses circular polarization, the other uses elliptical polarization. Not a great deal of difference should be noted, certainly not one that requires different aiming directions.

If you have to aim an antenna 180 degrees opposite the signal source, it's not due to polarization, it's more likely due to multi-path or interference.
post #9354 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaguy View Post

Is it possible that water, which can't attenuate television signals according to science, can bend tv signals? That could raise hell with the location/aim of a receive antenna.

I suspect it is wet and/or moving vegetation. I see this every time we get a storm. Once it dries out signals return to normal. When you don't have LOS you often have some amount of vegetation involved.

Chuck
post #9355 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

If you have to aim an antenna 180 degrees opposite the signal source, it's not due to polarization, it's more likely due to multi-path or interference.

I second this. Polarization of the transmit antenna has nothing to do with where you have to point your antenna.

Chuck
Edited by Calaveras - 12/3/12 at 11:59am
post #9356 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

One uses circular polarization, the other uses elliptical polarization. Not a great deal of difference should be noted, certainly not one that requires different aiming directions.
If you have to aim an antenna 180 degrees opposite the signal source, it's not due to polarization, it's more likely due to multi-path or interference.

Multi-path is a certainty here. The correct aim for KVIE & KXTV, in most rooms here, is different by around 90 degrees. In the most difficult room, the height of the antenna also has to be adjusted between these two channels. Only one room has a window facing Walnut Grove. In that room, a Silver Sensor works best for channel 10 when tipped to one side so that the top of the elements are at an angle of around 45 degrees facing northeast. What works best for one channel isn't usually best for the other, at least here. Someone earlier noted he believed rabbit ears in an "L" shape might be best for these two stations.

edit: Changed early to earlier
Edited by deltaguy - 12/3/12 at 10:59pm
post #9357 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaguy View Post

Multi-path is a certainty here. The correct aim for KVIE & KXTV, in most rooms here, is different by around 90 degrees. In the most difficult room, the height of the antenna also has to be adjusted between these two channels. Only one room has a window facing Walnut Grove. In that room, a Silver Sensor works best for channel 10 when tipped to one side so that the top of the elements are at an angle of around 45 degrees facing northeast. What works best for one channel isn't usually best for the other, at least here. Someone early noted he believed rabbit ears in an "L" shape might be best for these two stations.

This is an excellent example of what's going on with signals inside a building and also an example of why indoor antennas are such an iffy proposition. Signals are bouncing around all over inside a building. It's no surprise that an indoor antenna could end up pointing in any direction to receive a particular station.... or there may be no location that a station can be received.

I view an outdoor mid sized antenna at 30' as a baseline setup for DTV. Higher and larger antennas are a plus. Smaller and lower are a minus. Indoor is a double minus and there should be no expectation that this will work. Indoor is in the "pays your money and takes your chances" category. wink.gif

Chuck
post #9358 of 10016
Can anyone tell me what KCSO is running on 33.2?

Thanks. smile.gif

- Trip
post #9359 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Can anyone tell me what KCSO is running on 33.2?
Thanks. smile.gif
- Trip

Yes. Since they lost ME TV to KCRA in September they've been running a slide that says "KCSO 33.2 Coming Soon TV Scout."

Chuck
post #9360 of 10016
KBTV came back on last night, with music video network "The Cool TV" now on channel 8.4. I was hoping someone would pick this up, but I was dismayed to see that it has an ON-SCREEN LOGO which I have zero tolerance for. The picture is really too compressed to enjoy it also.
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