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post #9631 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaguy View Post


If one tv still picks up Bounce, it's not gone. Anybody still getting getTV from KUVS?

the only tv to pick up Bounce is mapping it as 18.3, the actual KUVS broadcaast channel. It does not show up as 19.3 like it used to. Also KUVS still shows up as 19.1 with it's PSIP. I have a blank screen on 19.3 now (Bounce) and 19.4, where getTV was watchable, in my office via rabbit ears. Meaning I no longer can watch getTV in there at all.

post #9632 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

I guarantee you that my location is far worse than yours is. The generic TVFool report for Yuba City looks like paradise compared to mine.

Chuck

Looking at your towns tv signal patterns.... I'd say a UHF mess..... (except for 1 sweet spot).......smile.gif>.....Baker Riley Way @ Shine Way
all stations, all markets, perfect at the prime reception location.

Every town has that prime spot ..... where everything comes in.
post #9633 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaguy View Post

If one tv still picks up Bounce, it's not gone. Anybody still getting getTV from KUVS?

KUVS 19.4 is now labeled "4 Lease."

Chuck
post #9634 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theducksfan2010 View Post

Television station located in Sacramento, California

The Community of License for KCSO is Sacramento but their transmitter is located a few miles northwest of Angels Camp which is east of Stockton.

Chuck
post #9635 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post

The neighborhood I'm in is newer, all one story homes, small trees, stucco sidings.  With that said, the idea of having a 30 foot antenna is simply out of the question.  I'm not opposed to the idea of mounting an antenna in a similar spot that Dish/DirectTV mounts their Sat dishes.  My roof line is awkward, there are no high sides where it would be easy to get the added benefit of height and still keeping it mounted on the edge. The only high side is on the street side. 

I wish you had said this from the start because we could have saved you the trouble. With those restrictions OTA is not for you. Stucco siding uses a wire mesh to hold it in place which is a very effective RF shield. That leaves only the windows for RF to get in and that's just not going to work 55+ miles from the transmitters.

What I'm trying to get across to people is that DTV was designed for outdoor antennas at 30'. That's the starting point. Depending on your situation, you may be be able to get away with less (lower, smaller antenna) or you may need to go higher and/or a bigger antenna.

Almost every time someone comes on the forums with reception issues it is because they are trying to get a compromise antenna to work. It's the exception that someone has put up an outdoor antenna and it doesn't work. And when it doesn't it almost always is an issue with dense trees or blocking buildings. There are a few other rare situations that seem to impact one or two channels. I don't think I've ever seen a case where TVFool predicted reception and an outdoor antenna was a total failure.

Chuck
Edited by Calaveras - 2/14/14 at 11:52am
post #9636 of 10016

I'm in Yuba City, and I can receive most of the major channels via a simple UHF "bowtie" antenna mounted on my chimney. The one I am struggling with is KXTV/News 10 (ABC). From what I have found, they are still on VHF-Hi on channel 10 and broadcast with a lower power than most other channels. They appear to be the only ABC channel in this area.

 

So my questions... 1.) Is anybody in Yuba City or Marysville able to tune this channel? and 2.) What type of antenna are you using to do it?

post #9637 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by usernamewitheld View Post
 

I'm in Yuba City, and I can receive most of the major channels via a simple UHF "bowtie" antenna mounted on my chimney. The one I am struggling with is KXTV/News 10 (ABC). From what I have found, they are still on VHF-Hi on channel 10 and broadcast with a lower power than most other channels. They appear to be the only ABC channel in this area.

 

So my questions... 1.) Is anybody in Yuba City or Marysville able to tune this channel? and 2.) What type of antenna are you using to do it?

What is the quality of the channels that you are getting?  

post #9638 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by usernamewitheld View Post

I'm in Yuba City, and I can receive most of the major channels via a simple UHF "bowtie" antenna mounted on my chimney. The one I am struggling with is KXTV/News 10 (ABC). From what I have found, they are still on VHF-Hi on channel 10 and broadcast with a lower power than most other channels. They appear to be the only ABC channel in this area.

So my questions... 1.) Is anybody in Yuba City or Marysville able to tune this channel? and 2.) What type of antenna are you using to do it?

Does anyone in your neighborhood have an antenna on the roof? Is it aimed to the south? If yes, why not ring the doorbell and ask what they get and what antenna they have. It's a more location specific approach. That's a good thing.
post #9639 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by usernamewitheld View Post

I'm in Yuba City, and I can receive most of the major channels via a simple UHF "bowtie" antenna mounted on my chimney. The one I am struggling with is KXTV/News 10 (ABC). From what I have found, they are still on VHF-Hi on channel 10 and broadcast with a lower power than most other channels. They appear to be the only ABC channel in this area.

Your bowtie antenna is good for UHF, but not so for VHF. That's the reason you're not receiving KXTV 10 very well. You probably don't get KVIE 6 either, as they transmit on VHF channel 9.

You need a VHF antenna such as the Antennacraft Y5713 or Y10713 that are cut for channels 7 through 13 ( see http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasVHF.html ). I recommend the Y10713. I use that antenna here in San Francisco and can receive both KVIE and KTXL here, 65 miles away from the transmitter site in Walnut Grove. I think you're at about the same distance.

Connect that through a coupler with your existing antenna and you'll be in good shape.

Larry
SF
post #9640 of 10016
^ ^ ^

I want to second Larry's recommendation.

KXTV (and KVIE for that matter) are running full power for a high VHF station. It may appear to be low power compared to a UHF station but they have the same coverage as a UHF station.

Another choice for high VHF is the Winegard YA-1713.

Chuck
Edited by Calaveras - 2/17/14 at 7:16am
post #9641 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post

What is the quality of the channels that you are getting?  

I don't think anyone answered this directly and I wanted to put this concern to rest. The OTA picture quality is as good as you're going to get. Some people say that cable and satellite quality isn't quite as good because of recompression of the data.

Chuck
post #9642 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
 

What is the quality of the channels that you are getting?  

The UHF channels I currently get range from "good enough" to crystal clear HD. Some come from Chico, but most come from Sacramento. I seem to be right in the middle.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaguy View Post


Does anyone in your neighborhood have an antenna on the roof? Is it aimed to the south? If yes, why not ring the doorbell and ask what they get and what antenna they have. It's a more location specific approach. That's a good thing.

Yeah I thought the same thing. I've looked and I've talked to neighbors, and everyone has either cable or Dish. Nobody with an antenna visible on the roof or on a tower.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post


Your bowtie antenna is good for UHF, but not so for VHF. That's the reason you're not receiving KXTV 10 very well. You probably don't get KVIE 6 either, as they transmit on VHF channel 9.

You need a VHF antenna such as the Antennacraft Y5713 or Y10713 that are cut for channels 7 through 13 ( see http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasVHF.html ). I recommend the Y10713. I use that antenna here in San Francisco and can receive both KVIE and KTXL here, 65 miles away from the transmitter site in Walnut Grove. I think you're at about the same distance.

Connect that through a coupler with your existing antenna and you'll be in good shape.

Larry
SF

Thanks for the suggestion, Larry. I'm almost exactly 65 miles from Walnut Grove "as the crow flies". The Y10713 looks like it should do the job for me, too.

 

Thank you all for your quick and valuable feedback!

post #9643 of 10016

How about the HBU22 from Antennacraft?  I believe I might have a place to mount a smaller antenna in my backyard on top of my aluminum patio cover.  I have no wood eves that are raised, or sides that I could mount on.  My roof is like a four sided pyramid with no raised sides.  It's either I mount on the aluminum patio cover, use a J mount (like the ones they use for satellite dishes) and maybe put a few poles on them to extend the antenna a few more feet, or lastly mount somewhere on my tile (not sure if it is tile or concrete) roof which may end up being a little tacky looking.  

 

I'd prefer to use a J mount with maybe a five foot pole extending it upward like the one pictured below... As I mentioned, I have no other way to attach a pole to the house (gutters going all the way around the house on all sides).  Will a J pole like the one pictured, plus maybe a five foot extension pole (Antennacraft 10165P) be adequate to get channels from Sacramento?  I think that would put my antenna at about 16-17 feet above ground.  

 

MTPEV2.jpg

post #9644 of 10016
JHughy... I found your TVFool information in a previous post. Your signals aren't that strong, but they should be strong enough to receive easily with an outside antenna with some gain. As you found out, an indoor antenna doesn't work and I think you'll need more height than the 16-17 feet, too. Signals don't propagate well close to the ground, so the higher your antenna is, the better.

The HBU22 isn't going to work well. Many of your stations are 65 miles away so you'd need an antenna with more gain, like the HBU33. The HBU44 would be even better. See
http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasHBU.html for pictures and more information.

Another model that would be good for you is the Winegard HD7697P Antenna (http://www.winegard.com/offair/hdtv-outdoor-antennas.php)

One problem I see is that you have stations coming at you from lots of different directions... north and south especially, plus several to the east and west. To get them all you're going to need a rotor so that you can swing the antenna around as needed.

Larry
SF
Edited by Larry Kenney - 2/17/14 at 3:14pm
post #9645 of 10016
KVPT Ch 18 PBS Fresno (real channel 40) is a deep fringe station for me at 106 miles to its broadcast tower on Bear Mtn. It requires very specific rotation of the antenna to pull in (occasionally dropping below the digital cliff).

Last night I lost Fox 40 around 10:30 pm, normally at least an 80% signal strength on my TV, 100% on my ChannelMaster+ due to KVPT. During an episode of Alfred Hitchcock (Antenna TV 40.2) on my DVR it completely changed to 18.2 (Valley Create, KVPT 18.2) for 5 minutes before Fox 40 came back in again.

How often its this type of drastic signal inversion common? I choose Sacramento stations over Fresno because they don't ever fade out. Until seeing this twice in 3 days? Reliability of Fox, and DVR recordings is important to keeping the wife satisfied with OTA.
Edited by Theducksfan2010 - 2/18/14 at 1:56pm
post #9646 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

JHughy... I found your TVFool information in a previous post. Your signals aren't that strong, but they should be strong enough to receive easily with an outside antenna with some gain. As you found out, an indoor antenna doesn't work and I think you'll need more height than the 16-17 feet, too. Signals don't propagate well close to the ground, so the higher your antenna is, the better.

The HBU22 isn't going to work well. Many of your stations are 65 miles away so you'd need an antenna with more gain, like the HBU33. The HBU44 would be even better. See
http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasHBU.html for pictures and more information.

Another model that would be good for you is the Winegard HD7697P Antenna (http://www.winegard.com/offair/hdtv-outdoor-antennas.php)

One problem I see is that you have stations coming at you from lots of different directions... north and south especially, plus several to the east and west. To get them all you're going to need a rotor so that you can swing the antenna around as needed.

Larry
SF

Thanks for the advice.  I see the HD7698 at amazon for mid 120s.  Is that a better antenna?

post #9647 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post

Thanks for the advice.  I see the HD7698 at amazon for mid 120s.  Is that a better antenna?
Winegard 7698 or Antennacraft HBU-55 are the highest gain HiVHF/UHF combo antennas in that category. Both are good antennas. Winegard may have better build quality, and it has the 75 ohm circuit board balun box. The Antennacraft uses a matching transformer. But both are good choices for fringe antennas.
post #9648 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theducksfan2010 View Post

KVPT Ch 18 PBS Fresno (real channel 40) is a deep fringe station for me at 106 miles to its broadcast tower on Bear Mtn. It requires very specific rotation of the antenna to pull in (occasionally dropping below the digital cliff).

Last night I lost Fox 40 around 10:30 pm, normally at least an 80% signal strength on my TV, 100% on my ChannelMaster+ due to KVPT. During an episode of Alfred Hitchcock (Antenna TV 40.2) on my DVR it completely changed to 18.2 (Valley Create, KVPT 18.2) for 5 minutes before Fox 40 came back in again.

How often its this type of drastic signal inversion common? I choose Sacramento stations over Fresno because they don't ever fade out. Until seeing this twice in 3 days? Reliability of Fox, and DVR recordings is important to keeping the wife satisfied with OTA.
Now that's quite an inversion! How far are you from Fox 40's transmitter at Walnut Grove vs the 106 miles to Bear Mountain? I assume that your antenna was pointed toward Walnut Grove, so KVPT came in off the back of it. Interesting story... thanks for sharing!

Larry
SF
post #9649 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Now that's quite an inversion! How far are you from Fox 40's transmitter at Walnut Grove vs the 106 miles to Bear Mountain? I assume that your antenna was pointed toward Walnut Grove, so KVPT came in off the back of it. Interesting story... thanks for sharing!

Larry
SF

Larry, I am in Newman, 12 miles south of Patterson. 71 miles from Walnut Grove. Yes my antenna was pointed towards Walnut Grove.
post #9650 of 10016
I have what I consider a pretty bullet proof ota setup.... for over a year. Every once in a while there is a hiccup but nothing bad at all... more so during the summer when the leaves were out and the inversions etc...
but my wife still signed up for directv. We were without dish for over a year... but she needs her abc family and hallmark channel (especially during the holidays when they have their corny christmas movies) and disney for the kids etc.. oh well I tried.

So now my OTA is in my shop and the kids room. The kids actually really enjoy qubo and watching the olympics. We also wire it up the big screen in the living room for the big football games.

I've probably spent hundreds over the past few years experimenting with different amps and antennas etc... oh well it's a hobby!
Bob C
post #9651 of 10016
Inversions seem pretty common. Most nights I am able to watch something out of Chico, Bakersfield, or San Rafael. Normally these inversions have no affect on Sacramento TV. But it has been 2 of the last 3 days.
I have been OTA since Jan 18. I switched from Fresno to Sacramento so I could DVR Bethany for my wife off of channel 10. I am hoping this is "not the norm"??
post #9652 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post


Now that's quite an inversion! How far are you from Fox 40's transmitter at Walnut Grove vs the 106 miles to Bear Mountain? I assume that your antenna was pointed toward Walnut Grove, so KVPT came in off the back of it. Interesting story... thanks for sharing!

Larry
SF

Ok, so my wife told me that she was watching Castle n the DVR tonight, recorded at the same time that Fox 40 got decimated by KVPT and at a time that correlated to to KVPT's overtaking Fox 40 Castle (ABC 10) completely changed channels. Castle pixelated for 3 seconds and then came back a different channel, for 20 minutes, at which time the picture pixelated and returned to Castle (ABC 10) again. Does anyone have any idea what the other channel was that could have been causing the interference?

 

This is my TvFool report http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5b9485d667dd29 

 

I am 90  miles between Sacramento and Fresno in a little city (10,000 people - Newman Ca) 

post #9653 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

^ ^ ^

I want to second Larry's recommendation.

KXTV (and KVIE for that matter) are running full power for a high VHF station. It may appear to be low power compared to a UHF station but they have the same coverage as a UHF station.

Another choice for high VHF is the Winegard YA-1713.

Chuck

You seem to know a lot about antennas Chuck. 

 

I am using a Colorstar C490:    http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasAllChannel.html

 

This is my TvFool report:    http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5b9485d667dd29

 

Do you think this is a good antenna for my location? I have it split to the living room and garage and facing Sacramento. Some of the shows my wife likes are not on Fresno stations. I want to put up another antenna for my office facing Fresno, as a secondary antenna. I need at least VHF Low/UHF. What do you recomend for my location? Replacing the Colorstar for the primary and using it as my secondary, or is it good and something else for the secondary? My antenna is on a rotator. Both probably will be.

post #9654 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theducksfan2010 View Post

Ok, so my wife told me that she was watching Castle n the DVR tonight, recorded at the same time that Fox 40 got decimated by KVPT and at a time that correlated to to KVPT's overtaking Fox 40 Castle (ABC 10) completely changed channels. Castle pixelated for 3 seconds and then came back a different channel, for 20 minutes, at which time the picture pixelated and returned to Castle (ABC 10) again. Does anyone have any idea what the other channel was that could have been causing the interference?

This is my TvFool report http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5b9485d667dd29 

I am 90  miles between Sacramento and Fresno in a little city (10,000 people - Newman Ca) 

Since KXTV is transmitting on channel 10, the station that over powered it would also have to be on channel 10. Checking the list of stations, there are two: KERO Bakersfield and KTVL Medford, OR. Seeing that KVPT covered over KXTL 40, I suspect that it was KERO from Bakersfield that took out KXTV.

One advantage you have is that you're far enough away from all the stations and are in the relatively flat Central Valley that you don't have trouble with multipath. You have excellent conditions for long distance reception. If you had a rotor you would be able to turn your antenna around and get all the stations to the southeast real well, too. Or you could put up another one and be able to choose either one using an A-B switch.

I had rotors here, but the buffeting winds we get with the marine layer off the Pacific was really rough on them and they broke. After two different ones quit working I put the antennas in fixed positions and now choose the one I want with a switch. (If interested, you can check out my antennas here: http://www.larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html )

I don't know anything about the Colorstar C490 antenna you're using, but it looks like one with decent gain. I'll let Chuck give you the difinitive answer on that.

Have fun with your inversions. smile.gif

Larry
SF
post #9655 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post


Since KXTV is transmitting on channel 10, the station that over powered it would also have to be on channel 10. Checking the list of stations, there are two: KERO Bakersfield and KTVL Medford, OR. Seeing that KVPT covered over KXTL 40, I suspect that it was KERO from Bakersfield that took out KXTV.

One advantage you have is that you're far enough away from all the stations and are in the relatively flat Central Valley that you don't have trouble with multipath. You have excellent conditions for long distance reception. If you had a rotor you would be able to turn your antenna around and get all the stations to the southeast real well, too. Or you could put up another one and be able to choose either one using an A-B switch.

I had rotors here, but the buffeting winds we get with the marine layer off the Pacific was really rough on them and they broke. After two different ones quit working I put the antennas in fixed positions and now choose the one I want with a switch. (If interested, you can check out my antennas here: http://www.larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html )

I don't know anything about the Colorstar C490 antenna you're using, but it looks like one with decent gain. I'll let Chuck give you the difinitive answer on that.

Have fun with your inversions. smile.gif

Larry
SF

Good call Larry, there is just no way it is coming from Medford. Since I already pick up at least 3 different LP stations regularly during inversion events from Bakersfield, I would have to agree with you. That is a CRAZY inversion though. According to TvFool, I am only 68.8 miles from KXTV ch 10 and the antenna was pointed directly at it.

post #9656 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theducksfan2010 View Post

Inversions seem pretty common. Most nights I am able to watch something out of Chico, Bakersfield, or San Rafael. Normally these inversions have no affect on Sacramento TV. But it has been 2 of the last 3 days.
I have been OTA since Jan 18. I switched from Fresno to Sacramento so I could DVR Bethany for my wife off of channel 10. I am hoping this is "not the norm"??

Normal reception occurs on rainy wind-less days.

Reception from San Rafael ? .... 68-1 ?

Inversion conditions last a few minutes,.... to a few hours, or longer.

You can also watch ABC on 8-2 if you rotate your antenna 90 degrees. Every station with a NM above zero...(NM column) reception is possible in your tv fool report.

As a general guideline. Stations with NM below zero are possible ...... but usually not reliable enough for daily viewing. Without extreme antenna stacking, Etc.
post #9657 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

^ ^ ^
I...

Another choice for high VHF is the Winegard YA-1713.

Chuck

FYI, Winegard has discontinued the large VHF Yagi antennas as well as several intermediate combos (and others). You'd have to get lucky and find someone with it still in inventory. The Antennacraft seems to be the only game left in town for 10 element high VHF in the consumer price range.
Edited by ProjectSHO89 - 2/19/14 at 3:34am
post #9658 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by 888C A 3rALLFCC View Post

Normal reception occurs on rainy wind-less days.


Reception from San Rafael ? .... 68-1 ?

Inversion conditions last a few minutes,.... to a few hours, or longer.

You can also watch ABC on 8-2 if you rotate your antenna 90 degrees. Every station with a NM above zero...(NM column) reception is possible in your tv fool report.

As a general guideline. Stations with NM below zero are possible ...... but usually not reliable enough for daily viewing. Without extreme antenna stacking, Etc.

Yes 68.1 KTLN.

Although I lose most of the other channels, I tried KSBW , and now I have a 3Rd choice for NBC, 8.1 and ABC 8.2

I also found Univision 67 from Salinas at this antenna location.
Edited by Theducksfan2010 - 2/19/14 at 11:20am
post #9659 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

FYI, Winegard has discontinued the large VHF Yagi antennas as well as several intermediate combos (and others). You'd have to get lucky and find someone with it still in inventory. The Antennacraft seems to be the only game left in town for 10 element high VHF in the consumer price range.

I didn't know it was discontinued. Winegard Direct still shows it but it looks like it may at a closeout price.

http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem.asp?p=ya1713&d=Winegard-YA-1713-Prostar-1000-10-El.-HiBand-VHF-TV-Antenna-(YA1713)&post=

The choices for high VHF have been limited for some time with no really great choices. What's a fringe area person supposed to do if they buy a high gain UHF antenna like a 91XG? Where's the equivalent for VHF?

Chuck
Edited by Calaveras - 2/19/14 at 8:09am
post #9660 of 10016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theducksfan2010 View Post

You seem to know a lot about antennas Chuck. 

I am using a Colorstar C490:    http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasAllChannel.html

This is my TvFool report:    http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5b9485d667dd29

Do you think this is a good antenna for my location? I have it split to the living room and garage and facing Sacramento. Some of the shows my wife likes are not on Fresno stations. I want to put up another antenna for my office facing Fresno, as a secondary antenna. I need at least VHF Low/UHF. What do you recomend for my location? Replacing the Colorstar for the primary and using it as my secondary, or is it good and something else for the secondary? My antenna is on a rotator. Both probably will be.

Do you really need low VHF? KCSO is the only station on low VHF. KNSO is also Telemundo in Fresno and should be easy from your location.

I agree with Larry that KERO probably overtook KXTV. There's nothing you can about ducting. With no blocking terrain to break up the inversions between you and Chico/Walnut Grove/Fresno/Bakersfield you're especially susceptible to it at your location. Inversions up and down the valley are the rule not the exception. The persistent valley haze is the evidence for that. Hopefully losing KXTV is something that'll only happen a few times a year.

Once in a great while I lose KOVR because ducting to Fremont Peak causes KQET also on RF 25 to become strong enough to cause it to drop out. If I turn my antenna down there I find KQET is to be very strong.

I think you're on the right track putting up a second antenna pointed to Fresno. Instead of trying to fight the occasional ducting problem with huge antennas, embrace it. Come up with a list of back-up stations from Fresno and if there's a problem with Walnut Grove switch to Fresno until the problem abates. This will work for live viewing but not recording. Be prepared to miss a few shows every year or watch them on-line.

I use Salinas as back-up here as I can receive the 4 major networks with CBS being a bit iffy. KQED and KQEH serve as PBS back-up.

Chuck
Edited by Calaveras - 2/19/14 at 9:03am
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