Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 37

Yup, but at the time I didn't know what sort of issue it was. It seemed to be coming from the DVD player - I only saw the blue flash when playing DVD's, but that was just coincidence. It probably didn't help that when I tapped the DVD player (on top of the TV...) it flashed. Now that I know it was the power supply, it still makes sense but it wasn't what I thought.

However, I may NOT have gotten away with it, sadly.

Today, about a month later, the set refused to turn on, and I have a red light on the board just to the left that has the flyback transformers on it. I assume that's the deflection board?

Your opinion - should I replace both the ps and deflection boards or just the deflection board? Is there a history of deflection board solder joints being bad? Is it worth touching up? Or should I just replace it for starters?

And I believe you said in another post that there are eeproms I need to scavenge off the current deflection board? Do you know which ones?

Thanks for the help, hopefully this set isn't becoming a bench queen.

Well, there you have it, folks. Problems on the PS board, left unattended, and then coincidentally, permanent damage to the defl bd. Was it really coincidental that awhile later the defl bd goes out?

I believe the defl bd would not have been damaged if the set had not been allowed to stay on after the first intermittent problems had been noticed. If the set was continued to be allowed to run during intermittent failures, I believe those intermittencies took out the defl bd. I looked up your former post and while you are proficient at soldering, you didn't say whether you resoldered everything on that board except the heat sinks and test points, or whether you only soldered what you considered to be the relevant points. My views on that issue have been made plain here on this thread more than once - that TOTAL resoldering of everything that connects to anything on that board is the answer, not partial resoldering.


I have examined defl bds and have found no cold solder joints, nor even suspicious ones, so you have to just grit your teeth and spring for its replacement. You can buy it from me or from Pioneer.

I would replace the defl bd first, to make sure the new one works properly, and hope that your PS bd has problems intermittently only, still, and still works properly most of the time. If your set works again, don't resolder the PS board yet. Just turn it off, and quickly.

Once you have confirmed that the new defl bd is working properly again because the unit is working properly again, shut the unit down again promptly, just as soon as you've confirmed coherent image on the screen. You don't want a repeat scenario of what you've just encountered. If you've been lucky enough for your set to be working again, THEN resolder the PS board, and don't wait.

You will have kept the unit on for only a few seconds, just enough time to confirm normal ops. Do NOT leave it on any longer than that before resoldering the PS board, or you'll be taking a chance on the same thing happening all over again.

If you're not lucky and the set still fails to come on, try resoldering the PS bd, but know that your starting point this time was not a good, trustable one. You may now need to replace the PS bd, there's no concrete way to tell whether you do or don't, now. If you get the resoldering wrong, you won't know it because the problems with the defl bd may be clouding the issue. Ultimately you may have to replace both boards, and hope that something else didn't get damaged downline, because of the problems on either one. If you don't want to take any chances, just replace both boards now.


The service manual says that the defl bd contains critical eeproms that should be transfered to the new one, so you'll have to refer to that manual or to Pioneer to find out where. When you do, please share that with us here. I have not had occasion to need to know that up till now, as I have always done a complete calibration after replacing a defl bd.


Anyone want to continue to debate, as to whether owners should continue to operate their sets once they have noticed the blue flash on it?


Mr Bob

Well, the day that I found this forum last month, I resoldered the power supply board.

It's worked perfectly since. No flashes, no flickers, no shutdowns, no picture problems, until the day I turned on the set and it faulted.

That doesn't mean the ps board didn't damage the deflection board before I resoldered it, though - I got the very surprising white bloom o' death shutdown at the end, it's what sent me looking for information. So at that point at the least, the deflection board got something it didn't like much. It may have been "walking dead" since then.

I did resolder every working joint on the power supply board, a lot of them didn't look like they needed it but given the number of them that were bad I didn't want to risk it.

I do have the manual with the schematics, it shouldn't be any problem to figure out what's what on the board in terms of eeproms.

BTW, looking back over the thread, I get the impression that a failing deflection board following a ps issue has happened more than once, although I may be misreading some of the posts.

I ordered the board from Pioneer last night. I didn't know you had any. I'll post after I get it replaced.

Good, looks like you handled it just the way I woulda, aside from running it too long with intermittent problems, but your explanation of that makes sense also.

Yes, I believe that defl bd gets stressed by the PS bd weaknesses. To have a delayed reaction and have it fail later on doesn't make it look like that would be the case - and there's no way to actually prove that - but I think we'll find more defl bds going down AFTER the PS problems show their ugly heads, than before.


Mr Bob

PS - I don't have any boards, I order them too. I just get a dealer cost discount, which makes it worth it to be in the loop.

JUST worth it, really, there's not an awful lot of profit to be had, in that loop...

Just to follow up, I replaced the deflector board and everything is back up and running! It is definitely a good feeling to get the TV back, like most of you I was ready to scrap it out. I couldn't find anything obvious that looked like eeproms (or labeled at all), so I'm just going to send back the old board and wait till I can get someone out to calibrate it.

How many others are on the East Coast (DC Metro Area) who want to chip in to get Mr. Bob out here to clean your optics and calibrate your set?

I'm in, but would prefer I have one more Raleigh / Durham / Chapel Hill partner to split the costs from DC down to the Raleigh / RTP area.

Anyone???? BTW, I'm a Pro-710HD owner, circa 2001.

Thanks!

bradesp

Lookin' good, guys. I'm in. Very much enjoyed coming to WADC earlier this year - Leesburg, Countryside, then down to Atlanta, then a stop in St. Louis on the way back -

Remember, if any of your friends have CRT RPTVs regardless of brand, chances are they are in dire need of optics cleanings by now. That helps flesh out a cal tour something fierce.

I have friends in Miami I'd love to visit again, if anyone down there wants to take advantage of my already being on your side of the country for this trip -


Mr Bob

How much would it be for a NYC leg of your tour?

If I have to drive to get to you, you spring for the rental car and $75/hr ground travel, RT. If you drive, we share the ride together, there are no travel fees, and hopefully you get hungry at the same time I do and pick up the tab...

I don't charge for time in the air, even tho it is lost production time. I do ask for coverage for shuttles back and forth from my airport, one going and one coming back. It's only a 20 minute trip -


Mr Bob

PM me when you're in the NYC area...sounds too expensive to bring you up from DC.

I didn't think you were talking about having me drive up from DC. I was talking about between owners, in whatever city I would be in.

Surely there are cheap plane flights aplenty from DC to NYC. Seems a shame to have me spend something like 8 hours drive time - always risking tickets - when I could be flown instead -

Atlanta was not all that close to Leesburg, nor to Daytona Beach, but was flyable, and very inexpensively -


Mr Bob

Thanks for all the info Mr. Bob.

I finally had the blue flicker problem fixed on our SD-532-HD5 several months ago. Luckily our set was under warranty, so they sent someone to come and re solder the board which fixed all the problems. I couldn't get the guy to do anything like (like remove any dust from inside).

The reason I'm writing back up on this thread, is because I just got a Toshiba HD-A2. HD = overscan galore. Is this a easy fix?

It wasn't so bad with my HD over cable, but with the A2 its pretty noticeable.

Yes and no.

Yes it's easy to take in that overscan.

No, it's NOT easy to remedy all the hosing of your picture that happens as a result. This is something that has been plaguing CRT RPTVs since HD began here in the states. It has been one of the things CRT calibrators have had to get really good at, and on ALL brands.

There is a very long learning curve to reducing overscan on Pioneers, and on Pioneer calibration in general. I have mastered it and can do it in my sleep now, but it took quite awhile, even after getting the proper directions. There's lots of nips and tucks you'd never expect that I had to figure out myself, as there is absolutely no instruction available for a lot of it, in there. The service manual gives you the basics, then you're on your own. Sink or swim, and believe me, your unit doesn't care which.

If you have not done it before, I recommend you have someone in the know do it, who has had extensive experience doing it, on lots and lots of Pioneers.


Mr Bob

I have had the flash, pop, turn-off for maybe a year. I thought the set was kind of wearing out (since it is 8 years old). This last time, it flashed, and popped, but didn't turn off. It just showed a white, pincushioned screen. I was sure it was a goner. So, I thought to review back here to see what people are buying these days. Low and behold, I found this thread last night. So today, I took the PS board out, bought a cheapo soldering iron, and with a slightly trembling hand, resoldered all of the power connectors and the couple of ICs mentioned.

I put it all back together, and sure enough it ran just fine. In fact it ran all night just fine.

Count me in the group of people very impressed with this forum. Thanks for saving me a bunch of money to replace the silly TV.

Now I have to hope the deflection board was not damaged in the last year. Even if it is, I am much more confident now of how to play with these parts.

Thanks all for your information and insights!

K

Yeah, there's a regulator in there that feeds power to the convergence bd. You have prolly saved yourself a conv repair in the future as well.

Are you ready to have your set cleaned and calibrated and returned to its former glory? 3 Mr Bob cal tours already - 2 to the East Coast and 1 to your neck of the woods - have already happened this year, primarily with Pioneer owners. Who have all been ecstatic with their "new" sets! Several threads have been written here on the AVS about those cal tours, all with glowing reviews of my work on them.

Set it up and I will come. It's cheap to fly me to SoCal. I fly out of OAK.


If anyone knows how to hit a wider market than the internet with the news that we are saving these units right and left, please contact me. Public service announcements, maybe?

We don't have much time left.


Mr Bob

I'm in New Bern, NC which is 111 miles east of Raleigh on the east coast of NC. I own a Pioneer Elite Pro 720, and I'd like to have my TV re-calibrated. My e-mail address is rgraynor@yahoo.com

Please send your contact info to my regular email address, (not by pm), including your phone number. There's interest in your part of the country, see posts 1085 and 1086 on this page, above, plus check for other entries.

I am sending you costs and services information to your email address.


Mr Bob

You guys gotta check out what's happening over at the ceiling pjs section, where CRT triple-gun is king. My CRT RPTV pic looks like those there. Does yours?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post11886630

Scroll up to find the actual shots themselves.



Mr Bob

this?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21151552/

Well, I finally got the board in, and had a week's delay on top of it due to work before I could buckle down and look at it.

The deflection service assembly, which is the big board with the flyback and HV distributor, does NOT have EEPROMs. The boards with EEPROMs are the signal assy, and the digital convergence assy, so there's nothing to remove and replace with the deflection board in terms of EEPROMs.

It was pretty straightforward to replace, once I figured out that it was held in with "mushroom head" bolts and it slid in to lock. Also you're just going to have to pry off the speaker grille and remove the electronics bay hatch on the front in order to access the CRT ground strap and the focus block power connector, so go ahead and get it over with. It feels like you're going to break something getting the grill off but you won't. I recommend a butter knife instead of a screwdriver.

With the exception of one pair, the connectors are all different sizes and are keyed, so you'll have trouble messing that up. The two that are the same size are color coded red and white so while you COULD mess them up, you'd have to work at it.

It took a couple of hours because I was triple checking and making sure I got the cables back in their retaining clips. I could do it the second time in less than 30 minutes.

Since I had soldered the power supply board a month ago from stem to stern, and had never had another flicker, I decided it was probably ok.

After carefully firing it up, I got a really good picture. The convergence was definitely off in all modes, but not by a LOT, just enough to be annoying to me. I ran through the user convergence and cleaned it right up.

Wow. I think the first board had something wrong with it for a long time. I am amazed at the picture improvement. I don't understand why, but the white balance is much improved with this board. I was about to break down and do a white balance before due to green shading in dark areas. But not now. I don't know if I just got the luck of the draw or what. The whites and greys are way better in terms of color balance, and for some reason the contrast is higher, and the saturation was too high now on non-HD, and a nasty tint issue has cleared up. All the picture controls had to be moved back to dead center from the offsets I'd had to put them on over the last few months. I don't know why those changed. But I'm not complaining at all.

I'm almost glad it went out, the new one is a definite improvement.

How much was the board ? Did PIO want a core charge ?

Here is the Pioneer parts page/list, and pricing.

http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/...elNum=PRO510HD

http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/...uctNum=AWV1809


You will be charged a $100 core charge if you buy a board direct from Pioneer. You get the core charge back, only after you send them the old board back. Unless you can find someone that has boards in-stock and where you can send/give them your old board first, you will be charged a core charge no matter where you buy the board from.

I am very glad to hear that. So much for blindly believing what the service manual says -



Mr Bob

Anyone who wants to go in with Brad and jfwilson on this tour, please contact all of us and we'll get it together.


Mr Bob

Yep, it was right at 300 bucks plus another 100 for the core charge.

Weirdly enough, they sent me two and charged me for one.

I asked them for a return authorization for the second one (and a return ticket on their own dime), and they said they'd fax one but never did.

I guess when it gets here I'll hit them again. It's a bit tempting to just "return it unopened" and get my deflection board for free but my conscience won't permit it. Actually, after having returned the core already when the second one shipped, I'd make $100 on the deal minus shipping.

Yeah, I know I saw the other reference you saw, because I was convinced I was going to have to move some ROMS over.

I got the schems out, didn't see any at all, went over it several times without finding any, then went over the board with a fine-toothed comb, no EEPROMS. I finally found another table in the manuals that says where the EEPROMS are hidden: they're only on the digital conv board and the signal assy.

Fine by me. I wasn't looking forward to taking that PCB out of its support frame - it's unwieldy and probably easy to crack a land.

BTW everyone- when you replace the deflection assy, replace it frame and all. There's no reason to dismount the board from the frame, and many reasons not to. The PS board is a different matter. Oh, and while the deflection assy frame has four feet with screw holes, mine only had one screw in, and it was right in the open by the back. I felt around for a while trying to find the two front screw heads by touch. The reason you won't find them is that they're not there. The slide locks do all the work of retaining the frame.

Right. I have examined the defl bds and they don't contain any cold solder joints, nor does the conv bd contain any, even around the legs of the ICs, which is where you will find them on Mits HDreadys and the older SD Sonys.


Right. The PS board has to be exposed for the resoldering, as there is mucho metal plating in the frame covering major parts of the underside of the board, preventing ready access to all solder joints, all of which have to be completely exposed. So the frame has to be separated from the board, and the board completely removed. Best to unplug all board plug-ins before even starting to unscrew that board, so you have something solid to tug on.

Not so on the defl bd, which is a total board swapout, so no need to separate board from frame. As tsbrand1 mentioned, it only takes one major screw to hold the entire frame down, because of the slots both boards sit in.

The frame never comes off the unit, in the case of resoldering the PS bd. The PS board DOES come off the frame, tho.


Mr Bob

My set has started to pop and turn off, at times it wont turn on at all. A deep cleaning is also needed. Some years back someone came out and cleaned the set and turned down the guns. Over the years the picture is very dark, and I need to run the contrast up to have a good picture. Any ideas who I can contact in the Detroit area to get this fixed?
Thanks Tom

I believe at least one other guy in Detroit wants some cal work done as well.

It only takes 2 or 3 people on board to make the travel expenses of getting me there emminently affordable to all.

Repair and calibration are typically like oil and water. Finding someone who knows it all - both repair AND calibration - will be quite a stretch, and as such you'll have to fly somebody in, in any case. May as well be someone who DOES know all the ins and outs of these Pioneer 510/610/710 problems.



I have done 3 major trips - 2 of them to the other side of the country - so far this year already, in this regard. Have me on it and you will have the most experienced tech/calibrator in the country on it, for the expert remedying of all the problems your set has.


Mr Bob

I have someone coming to help me with the solder joints, with my additional problem of having to run the contrast up real high, is it possible to increase the output of the tubes. The repair shop stated that the tubes may need replacing and a sign of them going is decreased output. I really dont want to get into that much of a overall. Any ideas?
Thanks
Tom
Detroit