Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 51

No

Found this forum a few weeks ago when my unit started with the blue screen and power off problem. Found the forum to be very useful. I pulled out my ps board and re soldered the entire board. Put the board back in and everything has been fine for a week now. Last night as i watching it the screen went blank on me. Everything else seems to be working ok on it. Sound still comes through and the unit does not shut off, just the screen goes out. I turned the unit off and let it sit few minutes then turned it back on. It worked for a few more hours then the screen went again. I have since turned the unit off for fear of further damage. Not sure were to go from here. Should i go back over the ps board, or is there another issue that needs to be taken care of? Any help would be much appreciated as i would hate to loose this tv.

thanks
jon

You've missed something in your resoldering. You have prolly saved the unit from most hazardous possibilities by the resoldering you have done so far, but obviously something is still not right, and who knows which connection will go hinky next? Possibly a dangerous one.

When I resolder the boards sent to me - there are 5 here awaiting my loving attention as we speak - the set always works 100% again, as long as it has not been dropped on its head by the gorillas at the shipping services. Be sure and use an OVERSIZED BOX whenever you send a board to me! And the BIG bubble-wrap, the inch-sized type, NOT just the small bubble-wrap.

At any rate, if you have already done most of the soldering needed, I could prolly give you a discount off of normal pricing if you want to send it to me and let me finish it up, and enjoy sharing my 100% fix rate. Contact me directly, by phone or at my regular email address.

But stop using your set now for video viewing, until this sit is remedied. Don't let it warm up to cruising temp again, until fixed right. You don't want to have one of the conns you have missed take down your set, and make it substantially more expensive to fix.


Otherwise, good luck! You're obviously more than halfway there -


Mr Bob

thanks for the quick reply, i will pull the board out and take another look at it to make sure i didn't overlook something. i spent two days working on the board and made sure to split it in section so as to not miss anything. guess i did. If i cant find anything i will get in touch with you and have you look it over.

thanks
jon

Informative posts, thanks Bob et al. My Pro-520HD is shutting itself off, along with a loud pop from the built-in speakers, after a an hour or so of run time. I've pulled the power supply board and re-soldered the connections, but the situation has not improved. However, I did notice that one of the voltage test pins, TP207 was labeled for 30V, but was actually at 42V. The other test pins were a bit off, but within 10% tolerance. TP207 is 40% off. The voltage was high before and after my re-soldering, so I didn't do anything to cause it.

I'm guessing their must be a failing component on the board. Any ideas what the most likely culprit would be? An electrolytic capacitor? One of the IC's? Impossible to tell? None of the components appear to be damaged. I don't mind replacing components on the board, but would like to be able to focus my efforts, rather than ordering a bunch of random parts from Digikey and crossing my fingers.

Thanks,
Adam

In all the dozens of PS boards I have resoldered to remedy this problem, I have never had to replace any components on that board. I also have never taken any voltage readings while that board is operational. I resolder them with the thoroughness required, they work from then on and that's that.

Sometimes a mod on a board is put in without any notice at all, much less to the end user. That can change the voltages already silkscreened onto the board to different ones, with the new ones taking center stage and making the set work just fine. Yours is a 520, of the x20 series, and if it has the PS board mounted vertically to the bulkhead, it uses the same board as the x10 series of the year before and the central character of this thread, but with 2 gray wires each where the x10 used 1 each, and it's missing several components that were deemed unnecessary. Otherwise it SHOULD be the same board, but if they modified it, neither you nor I would know exactly how, just at a glance.

I think you are overthinking and overtesting this board. Examine your solder job. I think you missed something, possibly under one of the caulking globs, or where something LOOKS right as far as its solder joint goes, but is not. If you skipped any joints because they looked OK, but were not glossy and gleaming, like good joints are, those could be your culprit.

If your set is still exhibiting the same symptoms as before, those are signs of cold solder joint malfunctions, which are thermally related. Any time it takes an hour for something to go haywire in there, it is thermally related. The intermittencies of cold solder joints are definitely thermally related.


Mr Bob

adamkuj, I think the silkscreening/service manual has an error since the other printed voltages down the line are correct. I, too, have played around with the voltage testpoints to check for shorts/continuity and found that testpoint to be +40 something. I replaced the ICs, too, but those occur after the power supply board and will not affect those voltages. If you have the service manual, you can see that there's almost nothing between that testpoint and the transformer (a capacitor, iirc), so the transformer was probably designed that way and there's an error in the printing. I performed a complete resolder/IC replacement and my 720 has been plowing ahead ever since. Good luck.

I have received yet another damaged board. I repaired it and later today it will be back on its way to its owner, but I think I now know why this has been happening. I have stated for a little while now to pack it in an oversized box, but not everyone has seen that directive, so they keep arriving in relatively small boxes, with just enough room for the board and some packing.

What happens is that the box winds up getting something placed on top of it that is smaller than it is, or some corner of a heavy box hits it in the middle.

What that does is crush the board internally, without even showing up as damage on the outside of the box. The damage I just remedied came from such a crushing, where the big heatsink is forced down onto the metal plate, breaking something in there.

OVERSIZED BOX! Or double box. If you use an oversized box, place your board in there at an angle, NOT flat! This keeps it even farther away from the edges, whereas flat keeps the edges of the board closest to the edges of the box. NOT the best scenario, in case it gets dropped on its side. The transformer in there is very topheavy, and a long drop onto its head or side can cause the topheaviness to crack the board around the tranformer, when it hits. This has happened too.

Oversized means probably 10-12" tall, maybe 20" long, 15" wide. NOT just enough for an inch in all directions before hitting the sides of the box, in there!


Mr Bob

Hi, I purchased my Pro HD510 in 2001. I just got off the phone with Pioneer and they told me that the tv is out of warranty and that they don't recognize this to be a problem since the tv is so old and they can't verify the amount of use. I told them it was a manufactures defect in the soldering of the PS board, and they wanted to know how I knew that, so I told them it was all over the message boards. She said its not covered anymore. I told them that it was unacceptable for someone to pay close to $6000 for a tv 7 years ago to have it not work anymore, and that I wanted to speak with a manager. They told me to call back and I told them no I waited 20 minutes on hold, I told them to have the manager call me back and gave them my number. I know have a better chance of getting a seat at the last supper then I do of having someone call me back. I'm gonna make a follow up call here within the next 1/2 hour. But that being said:

Mr. Bob, I'm experiencing the exact same problem with my 510 that everyone else is, a light fading in and out, and then the picture goes out, I don't get the speaker pop thing cause I run my audio through an surround sound system. I took the PS board out the other day and looked at it and didn't see anything blaringly wrong with it so I put it back in. The TV stays on for about 20 minutes and shuts back off again. If I ship the PS board to you can you fix it, and if so what is the cost and the time frame for repair? I live in New Jersey.

Thanks,
Don

I just got off the phone with them again, and they told me that they do not have this logged as an issue or know problem in their database, and they pointed me to their upgrades and known problems link. I told them just because they fail to put the issue on a website doesn't mean that it doesnt exist. She was very adamant about not recognizing the problem, and when I said I left a message for a manager I was told that it would take 48 hours for a call back.

Yes, I have 3 boards that I just resoldered to go out today, and 2 in the wings.

Send me an email requesting the info and I'll fire back my emailout on the hows and wherefores.

STOP USING YOUR SET NOW! The next event may contain a lethal spike that will take down a board deeper in your set! I've seen that happen and seen units get totalled because of it. Do NOT let it warm up again to cruising temp until you have that PS board resoldered, to the comprehensive level it needs!


Mr Bob

I know this thread is long, but you need to go over it and find out how others here have handled it with Pioneer.

I can tell you right now, it's less expensive to send your board to me and let me handle it, than to have Pioneer on the case about it.


Mr Bob

Mr. Bob

I just wanted to let you know I sent you an email to both your email accounts, if you dont get it let me know and I'll resend.

Thanks
Don

Well, This is the 4th time I'm back into this thread.

the stk 392-110 only lasted 9 months this time

I had learned about the longer lasting stk 392-180 part after I shipped everything to a buddy last time.

I will not reorder from electonix.

but I need a link for a place for the better STK's !!!

I sure hope someone posts that link !!

Union Electronics, I believe Melissa is my contact's name there. The 392-180s have been working out very well with them. They are very reasonably priced, and I have never had a callback on them so far.


Mr Bob

Got it. Reply is on the way -

I took out the power supply board again and touched up two solder joints that I had actually made worse during my original soldering job. The shutdown problem is now resolved. I guess I should have used proper lighting and magnification in the first place, per Mr. Bob's often repeated advice.

It's good to know that the TP207 30V marking on the board is a red herring. I got my Elite Pro-520HD for free, and am glad to have it back in working order without having to spend any money on it.

Cheers,
Adam

If you only did 2 solder joints, you will be having problems again soon, as other joints let go. Only a comprehensive resoldering job will fully restore that PS board and bring it up to the efficacy of all the other boards in the unit, which have never had any problems. And there are many boards in there.

This I have said also here, many times.

When you get something very valuable for free, you should honor it with putting some $ into it, if it needs it. After all, you are several thousand $ richer than the owner who paid retail for it.

Mr Bob

The first time I re-soldered the board, I did all connections (except for the heat sink mounts, which aren't electrically significant, and too big for my soldering iron to heat up anyways). The first soldering job didn't fix the problem, or perhaps it just shifted the problem to other contacts -- the second time I took the board out, I found that I two of my touch-ups from before were bad. I re-soldered them a second time, and the problem is resolved.

Thanks again,
Adam

Awesome! Another CRT RPTV saved! I know I won't be the one to save them all...

I am currently watching the 710 I was flown to Denver to calibrate 2 days ago, with Hairspray on it. Looking absolutely fabulous!

Hope you do whatever it takes now, to bring it back to better than new performance, like I have done here in Denver.

Good job. You obviously know what you are doing, and as luck would have it, we are insanely lucky that these boards are so forgiving.

Keep up the good work, you are a man after my own heart!





Mr Bob

PS -

Optics cleaning is the best thing to do now, with other things being optional later. Without optics cleaning making your light path crystal clear again, the other things we can do to improve the look of your images stay compromised. It is the one best thing to do for an 8-9 year old set that has never had it done before.

See my website for details -


Mr Bob

A testimonial to Mr. Bob's advice:

It is absolutely imperative that the ENTIRE power supply be re-soldered, not just a few key areas, even if the solder appears OK. This means everything, including some of the heat sink mounting posts (some appear to be tied into the ground or power buss). I had the blue flash problem several years ago, and fixed it by soldering a FEW areas that looked bad. I even posted some instructions in this thread's infancy on how to do this. Well recently, just a week after I installed new STK's, a new problem appeared.

While the set was in the first few minutes of warm-up, I would get random flickering lines of horizontal garbage running through the screen, about 2 min. after turning it on, then they would disappear 3 min. later. Set would be fine for the rest of the night. What scared me the most was the muted protesting (static) coming from the power supply board itself, not the speakers, during these episodes.

I re-soldered the board completely this time, and bingo, no more lines. I found a jumper that I had missed earlier that had a faint ring in the solder - my guess is that it was expanding laterally when heating up, causing contact on one side when cold , momentary loss, then made contact on the opposite side of the pad when warmed up.

BTW, for those of you having "convergence flicker" problems (one color will jump slightly to the right, then snap back), the problem lies in the convergence yoke connectors on the deflection board. A thorough explanation of this can be found here:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...r-related.html

UNPLUG THE SET before attempting any repair!

Thanks, Dave. Hopefully between us we can save a few more of these incredible sets.

One exception would be that you don't have to spring for a higher-heat than normal soldering iron for those heat sinks. It's really not necessary.

I just checked again, on the board I am presently working on, and the heat sinks only connect on one end, at all points. They do not provide a connecting path between anything and anything else in there.

As such, they cannot cause erratic or intermittent ops if their soldering breaks down, as it usually has done by the time I have received a board for resoldering.

The most that conn does is clamp the sink to ground on one end. This can provide potential anti-noise properties, but that's only theoretical, and I really don't believe it carries any weight, electrically. I have never resoldered them on the boards being sent to me, and have observed no such noise to be worried about, in the ones I have then observed in operation afterwards. Heat sinks just sit there in the air, not connected to the devices they sap the heat away from - directly, inductively or any other way. They don't really need grounding on this kind of board, which is a relatively low voltage board and neither needs nor uses shielding around any of the components because it does not deal with RF frequencies. What frequencies it does deal with are very effectively eliminated via the coils and caps presently in the sys as it is.

Pioneer also soldered in a coil on one side of the board where if you study it, you find that it has a jumper right across from it within an inch of it, which directly shorts it, disabling it completely. Meaning it cannot attenuate any high frequencies, which is what coils do, because it's shorted out!

This coil is NOT on the boards used for the x20 series. Nor are several bigger coils in the incoming 120v. line. In the following year, Pioneer obviously found they were not needed, and eliminated them from the design of that board from then on.

So I would not worry about the heat sinks. I DO resolder the one grounding screw that solders the screw to the board, tightening it also as it gets soldered. But that only connects to a cap, so it's not really critical anyway either, as a source of the intermittent problems. On other boards I have seen that screw take down the entire ops of the set, but I didn't analyze why, I just resoldered it, the set worked again and I was outa there, because it was the third visit, where on each visit I had APPARENTLY fixed the set! So I do it as a matter of course now.

On all else that Dave said, listen up! He's trying to help you guys out there, just like I am!

Thanks again, Dave, glad you chimed in -




Mr Bob

My pleasure, Mr Bob, still like the way these sets look. Regarding the heat sinks, I soldered 'em just in case - I noticed that some have insulators, and yes, soldering those wouldn't make any difference. But it does stop them from wobbling. And thanks to you for providing a heads-up about that one screw needed solder, probably would have overlooked that!

Have you got your optics crystal clear?


Mr Bob

Yes sir, I usually pull the lenses and clean very carefully under them, and the coolant covers. (allows me to inspect the coolant)

The mirror is a bit of a pain, though, because I don't want to over do it. (already seeing some slight hazing) Really tempted to pull it out and clean it flat. BTW, I usually like to do "just in case" scenarios in case of major FUBAR's, I found a place in Florida that will custom cut a first-surface mirror to the spec's of your RPTV, provided you can supply measurements. I did this because I noticed that Pioneer doesn't sell the mirrors anymore. (as I said, "just in case...")

The link is: http://www.frontsurfacemirror.com/ in case anyone is interested.

Looking to put together a tour in the Mpls-St.Paul area soon. I sent Mr. Bob my Pioneer Elite power supply board for repair, but now I need him to come and clean and calibrate.
Does anyone out there in the Twin Cities area want to share in the cost of his travel?

This entity is also known as www.highreflectivemirrrors.com, in Santa Rosa. He's a good guy, and made the one that is currently awaiting my having enough time to install it in my Mit 73" CRT, to replace the factory issue mylar one presently in there.

What have you been using on your mirror and how often have you been cleaning it? I have never seen any hazing on any of the mirrors I have cleaned.

If you pull your mirror for cleaning - don't see why you would, but if you do - do NOT go in from the back to do so. Heavy duty damage will ensue. Go in on a Pioneer Elite ONLY from the front, on ANY issues potentially involving the mirrror.


Mr Bob

I use Sprayway foaming glass cleaner (no ammonia). Cleaning is done in two stages - the first is light "wet" wiping, done in one direction, to remove residue from cooking (girlfriend does a lot of this), using a product called "Kleanwipes delicate task wipers" (basically a fine woven paper towel used in the printing industry for cleaning scanners, etc.).

Second stage, which is more difficult, is light buffing with a microfiber cloth and light misting with the Sprayway - cant seem to get all the streaking out.

I believe the hazing may have been caused from the first time I cleaned it, may have gotten over-zealous with the Kleanwipes. Anyway, I'm always open for suggestions regarding the proper way to do this. Usually clean it maybe once or twice a year. Kills my back, that's for sure.

I have found that I can never get it COMPLETELY streak free, esp. with the ultimate test - standing over the set with the front off and a very bright picture hitting the mirror from the CRTs and keeping my eyes off axis so I am not blinded by the light. That shows whatever is on the mirror. As long as I have it at least 95% clean on the mirror and 99% clean on the lenses I let the rest go, as everything is out of focus at that part of the light path anyway.

I feel it's best not to push it on these very fragile optics - if some swirling is still there, let it be. It's better to allow just a little swirliness/streakiness in there than to overdo it and wind up permanently scratching or scuffing something in there, which does not go away.


Mr Bob