Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 59

Was the PS board completely re-soldered? It is absolutely essential that ALL the solder joints be re-worked, and not just some of them. If you are satisfied that the PS board was done correctly, then try the following. If not, send it to Mr. Bob for re-work.

Note these instructions are for a Pioneer 610, but from what I understand, both sets are basically the same.

The issue you are having is definitely heat-related, with possible bad solder joints on either the conv. amp board (where the STK's are) or the digital conv. board, which is located beneath the conv. amp. (both boards are attached to the same heat-sink)

When you replaced the STK chips, did you get them from a reputable electronics dealer? A lot of people try to save money by buying them from Ebay, and these are usually factory rejects, meaning they're junk. Be aware that the original part number chips run hot, there is a cooler-running chip available as an upgrade (I believe it is STK192-180 or STK394-160, it's listed somewhere in this thread)

When you installed the STK chips, did you apply a thin layer of FRESH heat-sink compound between the metal tab of the chip and the heat-sink? Proper heat dissipation is vital for performance.

I would check both boards very carefully for bad solder again, paying close attention to the three (red white blue) connectors at the top of the board, the board interconnector at the bottom, and of course the solder on the STK's themselves. Also de-solder the power resistors on the conv. amp and check to see if they're open or shorted. (I would replace any that look "burnt") If you replace any, they must be the same wattage and value as the originals. A good source of information on convergence repairs can be found here, read the thread thoroughly:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...e-repairs.html

It was a good idea to use that fan, at least you localized the area of the problem (IF it isn't the PS board or something else). Good luck.

I would add that there are exceptions, that not ALL the PS bd needs to be resoldered, and those exceptions have been listed many times by me on this thread. However, if you don't know electronics enough to know why and don't want to read this thread cover to cover, just resolder EVERYTHING. The one thing you don't solder might be the one thing that gives way next.

And yes the STKs mentioned are the best subs. The 180s are the least expensive of the really good subs - upgrades, I should say - and have proven to be totally reliable. I get mine from Melissa at Union Electronics, out of/around Chicago.

I have never seen cold solder joints on any other board in there except the PS bd, but your symptoms are definitely thermally related, so please heed the advice previously given. It's great advice.

And keep using that fan until you have this one taken care of -



b

Dear Bob, the STK that I have put 392-150, and I bought them in a good dealer, fortunately I have re-welded the CONV AMP and the problem has disappeared, it is more I have used with a hairdryer to give him heat to the badge and everything works very well, I have calibrated the CONV and it is kept stable, thanks for your help
You are the best

The 150s work excellently as well. They are not as current as the 180s, but are definitely better than the originals.


b

Good job!


Oh yes, they're in there, lurking, waiting for the right moment to mess up your evening....

During my last adventure, found a couple on the conv. amp. One was on the red connector for the conv. yoke, the other was one of the output resistors.

In addition, I always had problems with the split screen and PIP functions - one side would be pink with lines, other side OK. Found the problem by gently flexing one of the boards in the video block (I think it was the sub video assembly). Turns out that one the surface-mount chips is riding on a layer of rosin, not completely soldered to the board (bad wave). I may tackle this one later, but I'll need a micro-tip iron and a 30X microscope to do it - this chip has what looks like 50 leads to a side, at a very, very fine pitch.

OMG, SMD issues! This is one that has NOT been reported yet.

Let's hope this remains an isolated incidence. I have taken in dozens and dozens of the PS bds that have been sent to me for the resoldering experience, and aside from those damaged in shipment, all but 1 have gone back and made their sets work properly again. That 1 PS bd was just too damaged by the shippers in too many places, having been sent in too small a box - I had given the owner the opportunity to have me rebox it for an extra fee before I sent it back to him, but he declined - and needed to be replaced. The others all survived, and their sets are probably merrily cranking away as we speak. I gave the owner a partial refund on that one, and if he had insured it for the proper amount - most do, his was the exception that got the attention in the end, he didn't insure it for anything and was stuck with their miniscule default amount - he wouldn't have needed that either.

Luckily your chore will only be to resolder that IC. With a fine tip iron and some magnification I am sure that will go just fine. I use a magnifying hood, along with 1.5x reading glasses, but the hood has an extra set of pop-down lenses, and I could use a set of 3.5x readers instead of the 1.5x's. This allows both my hands to stay in play.

I got it really cheap at MCM, I think it's a Tenma unit. The lenses are good quality optics, all except for the swing-down extra lens, which is just so-so. All the other lenses are optical quality and I use it every time I do a resolder job on the PS bds.

I am confident this is a bump in the road and not something we will see again anytime soon, on these units. A good reason to never flex a board you don't have to flex, or you could trigger something like this!

Sorry your unit came up with it, tho!




b

Last year buys 6 STK 392-180 for Internet in USA but the dealer did not know. Mount a couple, and everything worked even well it does a couple of months when the red and green lines appeared, I thought that there were the STK and bought 150`s here in Spain a known dealer.
I have already solved the problem and there were no STK. But I even have a couple of 180's to mount if they trump them 150's.
I have left the fan of PC mounted on the CONV AMP, that will help to work better to the STK.

I have seen no evidence to suggest that the 150s would not do the job, but it's good you have those 180s JIC.

Those ICs work very hard in there. I think a fan on them is a very good idea!




What's the weather like in Spain this time of year?


b

Beginning spring, I suppose that equal in USA.
1 month ago buy (ATLONA VIDEO SCALER W / HDMI OUTPUT. MODEL: AT-LINE-PRO2) because only it was using the Pioneer to see movies HD, only from HTPC, now I can see TV in PAL and sports in HD
My life has changed jejejejeje

Hypnotic, isn't it!





b

Not really worried about it at this time, I rarely if ever used the PIP (actually side-by-side) function because it squeezes the picture. Maybe I'll look at it the next time I clean the set, just glad I got rid of the red conv. jitter and fixed the the other problems with the PS board. After all these years, the set still looks awesome.

For magnification, I use an Optivisor hood with either a 3x or 5x lens. I actually had to use a 12x photography/printer's loupe to see the leads on this chip - imagine a chip that's approx. 1" square with 50 leads on each side, which means probably a hair-width between each. Even with a fine tip iron, you can only apply solder with the tinned iron and rosin pre-applied to the lead. No way can very-fine rosin core solder wire be applied directly to the leads, one false move and all the leads would be soldered together. Guess I'll have to give up coffee for a week before I work on it...

Glad to see your PS board re-soldering business is going well, lemme know if you could use some help!

You got that right! And removing them? Special tooling that heats everything - all legs - up at the same time, otherwise it all comes apart at the seams...

Can't say it's real plentiful right now, only have 2 boxes in with boards in them, and no boxes came in at all for the last few weeks. It is getting pretty scary out there with the economy making everybody rare back on their discretionary income. Got a feeling lots of people are feeling so threatened by their current/future economic status that they are trying to do this by themselves while not being at all qualified for it, and others are still running their sets with the intermittent problems happening hoping for the best, not realizing that cold solder joints are just like needed dental work - they never get better on their own, only worse, till something really bad happens, and it always does...



But I'll keep you in mind if that ever changes and I'm in so much overflow on biz coming in that I can't handle it. Can't see that happening until the economy improves, and that looks like it ain't gonna happen anytime soon...





b

If you're sending the board, the perfect box size is 15x15x22.

Use the big bubble wrap, not the small, and lay it in with its sides at a slanted angle, so if they drop the box on its side, the sides of the board inside will not be struck with that impact. Several of the broken boards I have received would never have happened, with just that little addendum.

DON'T tape the bubble wrap, just let it dangle please, it's extremely hard to deal with when transparent tape has been used on transparent bubble wrap.

And NO STYROFOAM POPCORN! PLEASE! Tell them that, if you are dropping it off and having it packed by others. It gets all over the place, including tiny airborn shreds in the air! The static alone, when dealing with it, makes it extremely unfriendly.

Use crumpled up packing paper, all the Fedex places have it all ready to be pulled off the roll and stuffed in, already pre-crumpled as it comes off the roll and thru the funnel.


b

my tv is not the same model that you are talking about but can someone help us we have the same problem to where it is always shutting off but we can turn it back on after a few minutes but it is really annoying its been going on for over a year and I heard about soldering the power supply and my boyfriend would like instructions

Yours is the non-Elite version of the same unit, without the glossy piano black finish, and yes the exact same things apply, as both Elite and non-Elite models are covered by the same service manual. Your PS board's solder connections have gone hinky and the entire board needs to be resoldered to a professional grade level, and thus restored completely. Luckily this is the only board in the set that does this, and there are many boards in this set.

You've been lucky so far, but this problem gets nothing but worse, until something very bad happens. Next time it shuts down could be the time it sends a lethal spike down into the rest of your set. Power supply boards were never designed to function normally with cold solder joints all over them, from a bad solder flow machine setup when they were produced. That's the scenario here. The power supply board in your set has continuously evolving bad connections - some bad now, some bad later. They are like needed dental work - they never get better on their own.

STOP USING YOUR SET NOW. If you keep using it you are playing Russian Roulette with your multi-thousand dollar investment. You must turn it off right now, even if you are watching it, and let it go stone cold. You can turn it on again, but you must not let it stay on long enough to warm up again, unless and until the PS board has been restored to normal factory grade efficacy. The cold solder joints act up after it's been on awhile and heats up - if you keep it stone cold till it's fixed you'll be all right, with no resultant damage.

If you keep using it, listen for the "click" as the hammer cocks back...

If you send the board to me I will take care of it, as I have done for many who have found this thread. Send me an email requesting info and I'll pipe you back an emailout I have all prepared for you, with info on where to send it, how to pack it etc.

Or you can go thru this thread that's been going on re. this issue for over 4 years here page by page, to find out other parameters of this problem first...

One way or the other, if you are not a professional in the field who solders for a living, DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME. Too much is riding on it. One false move - one UNsoldered connection, one solder bridge between 2 tiny close-together points that are not supposed to touch each other, and there are hundreds of connections in there - and your set could go down.

Leave it to a professional. Board restoration is the key. Board replacement alters the power supply parameters the rest of the set was originally set up on, as current and voltage regulation only have to fall within acceptable parameters - they don't have to be identical to each other, PS board to PS board, and between separate PS boards they won't be. This PS board should stay with your set, matched up, unless it becomes absolutely necessary to replace it.

You are not nearly at that point yet. Act NOW and you won't have any further worries.


b

Dear All,

I am new to the forum. I frankly only signed on for one reason and that was to pass the word to all that Mr. Bob is the real deal!

We had a problem with our Pioneer Elite 710HD projection TV. We'd be watching our favorite program and all of a sudden we'd hear a pop and the picture would cut out and the sound would become extremely faint. We hoped is was a problem that would go away so we turned the tv off - let it rest and then turned it back on. Sometimes that would work but sometimes it would not. The picture would work most of the time but it always seemed to pop off when we were watching something important (like the Super Bowl). It was extremely annoying. This went on for about 6 months before it started to occur more frequently. We looked into getting a new tv but didn't want to spend that much money. Then we called a couple of repair guys around our area and they wanted big bucks just to come to the house and see what the problem was.

Extremely frustrated I googled to see if others had similar problems. I was led to this site and started reading the different threads about the problem. I noticed Mr. Bob and his responses. He seemed to be very knowledgeable. I was reluctant - thinking it could be a scam - but I gave him a call. He was very nice and seemed confident that he knew how to solve the problem. Still a little hesitant - I decided to give it a try. Now understand I am not that handy with tools - so the thought of taking the back cover off my tv and removing a board was not something I was looking forward to do. But Bob was once again extremely helpful. In the middle of the process - I had a question and gave him another call - sure enough he was there and helped me through my problem. I removed the board, packed it as he suggested and sent it to him with a lot of hope. I'm in Connecticut and he is in California.

Just about a week later, Bob sent the board back and I was ready to reinstall the board. One thing I did, that I would recommend to others, is to take a number of digital pictures of the back of your tv after you remove the cover but before you disconnect any wires. With the help of the photos and Bob's instructions I reinstalled the board. Now it was time for the big moment - we turned the tv on and watched a movie - no problem. We watched a number of basketball games the next day - still no problem. Now one month later and the tv still works like new.

I can not express how happy and appreciative we are for Mr. Bob. He is an honest, hard working guy who simply does what he says he is going to do at a very reasonable price. I HIGHLY recommend that if you have a similar problem or one that after describing to Bob he says he can fix - you go ahead and let him fix it. You will not be disappointed and like me will feel great knowing that there are still people out there who are honest, hard working businessmen. Thanks Bob! We owe you big time!

Thanks!




b

Thanks for your report. I've included it in the RPTV (Post#1) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

I'll bet that there's more that Mr Bob could do for your Pioneer.

Don't get me started...





b

Mr. Bob asked me to post up some screenshots of my Pioneer 65" 710. I played around with my Panasonic SZ 28. I put the camera on a tripod, and used about a 1/2 sec exposure. I had to play around with the +/- exposure controls as they were coming out too overexposed, plus I have the ability to play with the Kelvin color scale. I just played with it until the LCD screen on the camera matched up with what I was seeing on the CRT screen.

I might add since Mr. Bob supertweaked my set in Nov 08, and then a solder redo of my main board, I can't get enough of my HD from BluRay discs, and DirectTV. I don't have a BD playing computer so unable to do screen saves from my computer. Anyway here were 2 shots I captured. They have been cropped.

Fifth Element


Kung Fu Panda

Anyone using a eyeone display LT and ColorHCFR software to adjust your grayscale? I did my first measurement using the CRT setting but the results were so far off the chart I can't imagine it was actually that bad. I have the pioneer elite pro610hd. I'm using the curtpalme.com grayscale for dummies manual. Anyone using the LCD settting to measure? I'm going to try that to see if I get different results.

I'm wondering if the protective screen is causing a lot of glare and if so how can I overcome this problem. Any other tips? Can this be used to adjust the screen trimpots up to boast the brightness?

Thanks

Answered at the Don't Dump... thread -


b

Thanks, Rob, I was hoping you'd do that!





b

I have a pioneer elite 510hd tv that has fine horizontal lines that appear when objects move on screen, or text appears on the screen. I have not been able to figure out how to fix the problem. Can anyone tell me if the parts from a pioneer elite 610hd tv are the same as the 510? It seems so according to the service manual. I am thinking about doing some "swaptronics" of boards to find out with which board the problem lies. Would this be ok, or not recommended?

I'd go for it. They make the different models with all the same boards to save in the tool and dye process. It's much more cost effective to make thousands of the same board than having 3 different boards per model, one per size.

Should not have any problems there, let us know what you find.

Have you had your PS board resoldered yet? If not shut down your set right now and send it to me, don't give its cold solder conns a chance to send a potentially lethal spike down into the rest of your set.


b

I bought this tv secondhand from the original owners who claim it never had any blue flash or turnoff issues. I resoldered the power supply board anyway to make sure it wouldnt be a problem. However, when I purchased the tv it wasnt hooked up to any input so when I got it home and plugged it in, I found it has thin horizontal lines that follow movement of items on the screen. This is especially true with lettering or text on the screen. I have a 610hd that is fine and was thinking of swapping the boards to see if I could narrow the problem down to one board. I don't want to mess up my 610 though.. but lines on the other tv are irritating. Also, I changed out the STK chips on the 510hd when I had the power supply out for resoldering. It didnt make any difference in picture, but the convergence on the 510hd seemed ok anyway when I bought it.

I purchased a 510hd in November 1999 and it had the flash problem. After fighting with the B&M store they agreed to split the cost difference to replace it with a 610Hd around May 2000. My 610 has never had the flash or turnoff problem. I wonder if the turnoff issue was more of a 510 only problem or if they just sold more 510s so it appears to be just a problem with 510? Or maybe it was correlated to a manufacture date

You should have no problems swapping boards between a 510 and a 610.

Sounds like a bad cap in the signal chain. Sometimes you can smell
'em. True. If you find a cap which has leaked black brackish stuff onto the board, and when heated with your soldering iron puts a big whiff of fish smell into the air, then definitely change out that cap.

Just be sure to do a complete and thorough job each and every time. I once left just 1 black wire off a board when re-installing it in a Sony and the thing blew up on me, requiring a new blue gun and new power supply board, plus a new CXA IC for the static convergence controls, an IC halfway across the set from the original non-connection.

It was a grounding wire for the HV sampling. Without it evidently the HV went into runaway and caused a huge arc somewhere in there.

NEVER be cavalier and "just on automatic" when getting into sets like these. There are always potential landmines. Always be attentive and very very careful. I would always recommend "if it ain't broke don't fix it", but in your case I agree with what you have in mind -

In the case of the intermittent problems with the PS board, it needs fixed, via the resoldering op. And this is even if you have not had any events yet, just because of the thinness of the solder they used in the original solder flow job and how it continues to get worse as time goes by. If you have had even 1 intermittent event of any kind, you should be unplugging your set until that board gets the needed restoration.

Those PS boards never shoulda flown thru QC, but their inspectors had no way of knowing that solder would go bad later. I am sure the solder looked just fine at the time -


b

Caulk another for Mr Bob is my hero
System - Pioneer Elite Pro HD720
Symptoms:
Loud pop then system would not start up
After long cool off time period it still would not start
Diagnosis:
Deflection board was fried and was caused by PS board. I debated the cost to fix (close to 1K once all said and done) and decided a new comparable set would cost 2.5K minumum.
Resolution:
Ordered new deflection board and verified it was the only thing fried. Sent PS to Mr Bob for re-solder. Buttoned it up the other night and Presto!

I'll be getting him to tune it right after we move.

Thanks!

How did you conclude that the defection brd was the culprit? Was it because the red led was lit on that brd? I have the same issue on my SD582(non-elite). My PS brd was replaced about 1.5 yrs ago before it shut down again just like yours. I replaced the blown fuses on the PS brd and tried to power it up only to blow the fuses again. The red led on the PS and deflection brd was lit.
During my search for a cheaper replacement deflection brd, I ran into a used pro 630 on craigslist that was local. The guy was selling it for less than the cost of a replacement deflection brd so I ended up buying it from him. I can't believe how much superior the pro 630 is to the sd582 - WoW the picture is amazing. I already performed the optic and mirror cleaning as described here in the forums. I will read up more on trying to do more of the picture calibration DIY since I have the service manual.
As for the SD582, i'm debating whether I should buy the deflection brd to get her going again or sell her for spare parts.