Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 60

There should not be all that much difference. They both use the same types of circuitry, tho the 630 is 2 model years younger. I have supertweaked both, and have seen very little difference between the 2 in HD performance of the finished product on both.

I bet it's just in the way the calibration has been handled, along with the optics needing a lot more cleaning on a 2 year older set.


b

Hey Guys,

I just stumbled across an ad today that caught my eye. Apparently, whoever posted the ad, is giving away their PRO-610HD for free. Now, doing some quick research the PRO-610HD is suppose to be a 58" set yet, they are saying it's a 54". So I would assume they got their model numbers mixed up and it's actually the PRO-510HD?

Anyways, here is what the ad says:
"Best TV we ever had. Has on & off switch problem. We want flat screen. This is big but when it works it's Beautiful. If you can fix it YOU WIN! Pioneer Elite 54" on stand, Reference Projection Monitor Receiver
PRO-610 HD. All you need to do is come get it."

Now, the on and off switch problem is most likely that the PS board needs to be resoldered? Or something as "simple" as that? I haven't put for any effort into looking any of this stuff up before so it's all new territory for me. I figure someone here might know what is going on or at least a rough idea. I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth it for me to go out there and pick up the TV or if it might just be a loss and a waste of gas cause the thing is fried. I don't want to bother with it either if it might cost me $1,000+ to fix. Thanks!

If it's free, first grab it, bring it home, and then worry about how to fix it!

Then and only then, can you troubleshoot it some. Just saying what the ad says, that it has some sort of a "on & off switch problem" is really of no help. No one can tell you for sure what is actually wrong with it without a better description of what it is actually doing.

As for how much it will cost to fix it, you will only know that when you first find out what is actually wrong with it. And it will also depend a lot on if you are capable of doing any of the work yourself.

If it's just a cold solder joint problem on the power supply circuit board, and if you are well versed in circuit board soldering, then the fix for it could almost be free. But if you are not good at soldering, or worse yet, do not even know how to solder, then you should NOT even try to do the soldering yourself! But if you can remove the circuit board yourself so that someone else can do it for you, then the cost should only be a few hundred dollars.

For only the price of gas to go get it, even if it takes a full tank of gas. For something like a HD ready Elite RPTV, it's still well worth the risk of "wasting" some gas to first go and get it and then do some troubleshooting on it to find out what is wrong with it, and then to decide if it is worth fixing!

Well, I suppose you make a valid point haha. Any rough idea's on how much it weighs? Think I might need 3 guys (including myself) to load it on a truck? I didn't know if that "on and off" thing was simply a common problem that people have run across or not. If that was the case then you might know exactly what it is that's going on with it and I'd be able to save myself the trip. The whole thing about "wasting" my time is that the TV is roughly an hour and a half away without traffic so 3+ hours round trip, which is something I can't really spare during the week. Plus, that's just a long drive in general.

Anyways, if it's still there at the end of the week, that is if I can't make any time during the week to get it with some friends, then I'll let you know the diagnosis. If I can't determine the problem on my own, which I doubt I'll be able to, I'll see if I can post some pics and/or video for help.

If it's the 610, it's a little over 300 lbs. 54-1/4" x 53-3/16" x 26-9/16" (WxHxD).

Ahh okay. Definitely a 3 man job if I want to take it easy on myself. Thanks! And I bet that's where they got the 54" from...

I just received this email, from a guy on the other side of the country. It is typical of how many people handle the intermittents they are noticing on their 510/610/710s.

Bob,
Found you on the AVS forum and I have the problem with the HD610
making a loud pop and shutting down. Can you tell me which parts I need
to send and how to pull them out and pack them? Plus, of course, what
it will cost.

Thanks,




Here's my reply, which was followed by details on how and where to send the board -



Please stop using your set! NOW. Unplug it from the wall or turn off the master power switch on the far left of the control panel till it gets fixed.

You've been VERY lucky so far, but don't push it. The next time it shuts down could be the time it sends a horrific spike down the power supply lines and takes out a board downline from it. Then it starts getting expensive. Right now the cost to restore it to gliche-free, completely stable operation again is minimal, especially in comparison to costs later after such a NEW silent but dangerous shutdown event - which LOOKS the same as the shutdown events you've already had, but this time silently and instantly goes critical on you and damages something downline from it - which in many cases totals the unit.

As long as your set is still working properly while stone cold when you first turn it on, yes you can send me the board straightaway. If it has finally shut down and won't come on again, then don't send me the board straightaway. We then have to talk live first, and go to the next level.

Be sure to send me your phone number, in case there are any complications along the way.


B


I only hope I can get to those who have not learned about this thread yet in time each time, before something really bad happens to their sets -

My year 2000 65" Panny, easily more heavy than either the Elite 510 or the 610, was easily transportable up the ramp of a Uhaul truck by 2 normal sized guys. These things are all on wheels, there should need to be no heavy lifting involved.

I cut an inch thick 4x8 in half lengthwise and put it on the ramp so the set was not exposed to the ramp's knurls as it went up and down the ramp. Or get a truck with a lift, which makes things super easy and completely doable by only one person.

Buy half a dozen unbuilt Uhaul boxes and put them under the set for the journey. This will protect it from road shock, you can sell them back to Uhaul at the other end as long as they have not been built.

Contact me directly if you want to do some troubleshooting on your set once you get it back home. I have been a tireless contributor to this thread for more than 2 years, and have saved literally TONS of these sets from going down in flames. I do it all the time, I LOVE these sets and am flown around the country saving and then restoring them.

Sounds like your set has experienced what all the other sets here have, and there's plenty of track record on this issue, if you want to read the entire thread. The PS board was poorly soldered by Pioneer - or whoever they may have farmed that op out to - at the factory, and it has taken years for those weak solder joints to finally start letting go, one by one. If caught early, no damage happens downline. If not, then we go to the next level. But these sets are emminently and very straighforwardly repairable, some of the finest designed sets ever made. Well worth a 3 hour drive and a repair. And a full cleaning and calibration, once up and running again.

Peruse some of the later pages here - just scroll them quickly - and you'll see screenshots of how incredible these sets look, even today, once fully cleaned and calibrated and given the proper care and maintenance you'd give any fine instrument. A 610 produces a $6000 picture. It did then, when your former owner plunked down $6000 and bought the set retail, and it still can now, given the proper care and feeding and brought back to its former glory. (And then some, if you put it in my hands!) These sets are NOT old. They are only at cruising age for a CRT RPTV, with many happy years ahead of them, producing breathtaking HD.

This was the ONLY brand that designed the contrast to be at midpoint by default, when all the other brands were defaulting them at 100%, which we call Torch Mode. As such, they usually have much more life left in their CRTs than those of Joe Sixpack.

Videophiles will always choose to run their contrast at halfway up or below, of course, but the Elites were designed to do that by default, and be the regular way of doing things, without the Contrast intervention usually needed on other brands.

If you just want to get your set fixed without taking on the load of reading the entire thread, contact me. Directly please, NOT by pm. We'll start by getting it going for you again, then see if you want to really trick it out.



b

Hello everyone,

I need some help with my Pioneer Elite 510HD. All of a sudden the picture on the TV is all screwed up to where the RED, GREEN, and BLUE are split and the picture looks wavy. I am suspecting that one of the resisters on the convergence board is shot but I don not know which board is the convergence board. I did smell something burning as soon as it happened so a resister definetly went. Any help or suggesting is greatful.

RT

I had a problem like that and fixed it with this: http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/...uctNum=AWV1919

Pretty easy to install if you've like put together your own computers and stuff. Just a board you plug in. It's a little tricky, but if I can do it anyone can. ha

Mine was more with the HDTV plugins now that I read your post again. Like if I moved the cables around I could sometimes fix it, but eventually even that didn't work. You might have something else.

I would not trust this to work on a 510, as it is for the x20 series. Also I don't see what board it is, just that it's the "I/O board". Which does not make any bells go off in my head re. what this thread is all about.



Would think that this would be the terminal board, where the inputs all go in. The symptoms match convergence, not I/O.


b

This sounds like a convergence problem. It usually doesn't involve a burnt resistor on this series, but since the ICs usually croak and blow fuses, one resistor or another could very well be fried.

I would recommend changing out JUST the ICs and the blown resistor, NOT the board itself. Starting from scratch on geometry and convergence on CRT tech is not for the faint of heart, the impatient, the inexperienced nor the ill-advised...





b

Worked on my Pioneer Elite 510HD.

What did? Changing out the I/O board? Or the conv bd? Or the conv ICs?


b

I have a pretty good idea that its the convergence board and something similar did happen before and I had a tech fix it and what he did was replace the IC's and resisters. I am pretty handy and pretty sure I can do this myself as well. Bob, not sure if you remember me but you ordered the Power Supply board for me about 5 years ago. I just need to know which board is the convergence board when I open the back panel up.

I rarely order the PS board, instead I usually do a supremely comprehensive job of resoldering it, completely restoring it. I have been doing it this way for years, saving the PS and convergence boards rather than replacing them, and doing it this way has worked 100% of the time, as long as the board has not then been damaged in shipment by the gorrillas that work for the shipping companies. Even then, I have repaired those damages and saved every board so far except one, which was just hit too hard while it was in their hands, resulting in too many board breaks. And as you observe, I have been doing this for many years.

The only board I recommend replacing is the deflection board, as it is very convoluted in its design, and you usually need to replace it rather than try to repair it. Whenever it's the defl bd I simply replace it without further ado. But I ALWAYS save the PS and conv bds and keep the original boards going, unless one or the other has just gone too far to the dark side. Which has happened so infrequently as to not even deserve mention. I have NEVER had to replace a conv bd on these units, and only ONE PS bd.

I don't think replacing it is a good idea on the PS or the conv bds, because then all the supplies on the PS and generation wafeforms on the conv can wind up a little different in their voltages and regulation parameters from the boards that came out, resulting in changes in precision areas downline from them.

The whole set takes its powers from this one PS board, so I believe it's really critical to keep the original in there at all times, unless totally prevented from doing so.

But if you say so...

The convergence bd is the one on the far left as you view your set from the back after opening it. It is the only one that is also vertically mounted, like the PS bd is on the right side as you're looking in from the back.


beither

Bob,

The situation was that you tried helping me on soldering the board but It was unsuccessful and you ordered a new one for me from Pioneer and a fee for your service. I am out in New Jersey so I think this is why we took this rout. I will start on the convergence board soon as I can and will give my results after I am done.

It was not one of those that was damaged in shipment by the shipping people? And it was 5 years ago? I remember one that was damaged and needed to be replaced...

Oh well, let's just say that this type of thing has been VERY few and far between...



Wow, 5 years just seems to be getting longer and longer ago, the more advanced the world keeps getting...


b

OK, so I took the convergence board out and I'm taking a look at it but I can't seem to see with the naked eye where the problem would be. I see a lot of forums talking about the SKT392-120. I guess these are the 2 IC's that you have to replaced. How can i tell if any of the resisters have gone bad? I don't see any burned marks on the board. Thanks for any suggestions and pointers.

The original STKs in there are the 392-110s. The most easily available and affordable and reliable ones to replace with are the 392-180s, tho the 150s are good also if you can't get the 180s. Don't replace with the 110s again. And the 120s are just one gen removed from the 110s.

I have not seen the resistors go bad on these units, when the ICs croak. I have seen them go bad on other units and if they have failed at all, usually they are burnt. The Pios are obviously designed to blow the fuses before the resistors have a chance to burn. Which of course is the best way to do it.

I have also seen fuses that look like resistors go open without showing anything, but these are in the Mits and Hits, not the Pioneers. If none of yours are visibly burnt, I wouldn't worry about them.

Just change out the ICs, check the plug-ins for any cold solder joints, check the 2 regulator transistors mounted up against the heat sink - have never found any of those bad either, nor cold-solder jointed - and be sure to not be stingy with the heat sink compound when you replace the ICs.


b

An owner just emailed me that his set has this problem and wondered how much it would cost to fix if he sent me the board. Part of my response -


It's eminently affordable for a set that cost what yours did when you bought it, as it is still capable of that incredible picture, even today. Have you seen the screenshots of pix I have snapped from sets of your vintage recently? If not let me know and I'll direct you, so you can see what your set CAN and SHOULD be looking like right now.

(Of course right here to this thread, a few pages back, is where I will send him! )

The price I charge is a few paragraphs down. But even before you scroll down to find it:

Please stop using your set! The next time it shuts down could be the time it sends a horrific spike down the power supply lines and takes out a board downline. Then it starts getting expensive. Right now the cost to restore it is very minor, especially in comparison to costs later, which in many cases total the unit. This is a degenerative problem, and like needed dental work, never gets better on its own. Only worse, till it takes your set down.

Here’s the skivvy –


If you are still running your set with the intermittencies happening occasionally, TURN IT OFF NOW AND UNPLUG IT UNTIL TIME TO SEND THE BOARD! If it has shown signs of occasional malfunction and you are still running it, you are playing Russian Roulette with your multi-thousand dollar investment. If you are watching it as we speak, run - don't walk - up to it, and unplug it or turn off its master power switch. If the remote is closeby you can reach for that also, but disconnecting its circuitry entirely from the wall power is what is most important, here.


The ONE exception (The "One last time" Rule):

Before you remove the board and send it to me, be sure to run your set FROM DEAD COLD one last time for under a minute, just to check that it’s working OK. Do NOT give your set time to warm up again! Even once! Not till your PS board has been TOTALLY restored to TOTALLY stable operation again.

Once you have confirmed that it has a solid, normal, coherent picture, while it's still on, unplug it and proceed to removing the board. When you get the board back and plug it back in, the set will turn itself on automatically, so be sure everything is back in place before plugging the wall cord back into the 120v outlet. This allows you to keep watch FROM THE BACK as the set powers up again for the first time after the board resolder repair.

With the unit unplugged, follow the power cord, from the 120v outlet at the wall. It goes directly to that board, the PS/Power Supply board. Do NOT remove the slanted plastic back, up above. Your optics could get permanently damaged. Just the fiberboard plate, on the LOWER half of the set, in the back. Confirm that the board is mounted vertically to the bulkhead of the set, on your right as you are looking in from the back. If so, it's the board in question.

Pull all the conn'rs off the board at all points before removing the board, which comes off with just 1 screw holding the entire metal frame to the rear wall of the set. Do NOT disturb the wiring bundling by tearing off the tape, shrinkwrap or tie-wraps holding the wires together. It will be needed when you re-install the board, to make sure all plugs go into their proper jacks. You can't plug anything in wrong, as each plug is of a different type or number of pins from each of the others. But keep the bundling in place anyway, undisturbed, JIC.

Leave the board on that frame, I will remove the small screws all around it once it has arrived. Pull upward on it and it will come off its slots for you.

INSURE IT FOR AT LEAST $400!!! One owner didn't, sent it Fedex, and when the gorillas damaged it beyond repair, all he got out of the deal was $100 from them, from which he had to then buy a replacement board. Another owner insured it for $5000 in case the board became both unusable and unavaible, totalling his set. His board was damaged in shipment too and no, he didn't ask for the full $5000, but at least he got covered enough for the repair fee and then some.

So don't be penny wise and pound foolish. INSURE IT.

Use big bubble wrap on it, in packing it, and an OVERSIZED BOX. An ideal size is 15x15x22. I have had 10 damaged boards so far to have had to contend with by now, because of the gorillas that work for all the shipping places. Don’t take any chances, they require AT LEAST 2” on all sides of clearance between the board and the box, no matter how well the insides of the box are cushioned, and because the board is very wide and flat even that is not enough. Lay it slanted rather than flat, so the board sides are even farther away from the edges of the box, in case they drop the box on its side. Don’t tape that bubble wrap, just leave it dangling, and PLEASE don’t use styrofoam popcorn! It gets all over the place. Crumpled up paper works just fine. If you MUST use the popcorn, SEAL IT in plastic bags. Grocery bags would work, and are free. Overfill your box a bit and tamp it down in any case when you're closing it up, so that once the board is in there, it is secured in place and can't move around in there.



In the email I returned to him I then go into what I charge and other details, like where to send it. If you want the rest of that that info, please contact me by calling or emailing me directly, not by pm please.


b

Where can I order these IC's?

A lot of companies ask for a minimum of around 200 dollars. They refered me to Mr. Sprockaets (714-687-9942) and he has limited quantity but I was able to get the STK392-180 for 21.50 each so in total with shipping came out to around 50.00.

I'm a Pioneer 710HD owner. I've read this thread, and notice a majority of the people with the power supply issue are seeing flashing and hearing poping sounds. My problem is a dimming of the TV while watching it. The TV gets dark for a few seconds, then returns to normal after a while (sometimes immediately, sometimes after about 20 seconds or so). The input doesn't matter (component and rgb are what I use the most). I don't hear any popping or see any flashing of any kind, so I wanted to know from the forum if this is a problem that has been experienced by someone else, or is this the precursor to the Power Supply issue?

If so, my next question is where do I get the proper hardware for the fix, and how do I get it fixed (along with getting my TV calibrated, as it has never been professionally calibrated since I had it)?

I'm in the Baltimore/Washington area, and prefer to have a service tech come out to service the TV rather than try and remove parts, or move the TV myself. I truly have a fear of damaging this TV, and don't want to take any chances being a DIY novice.

I always order from Melissa at Union Electronics out of Chicago. Great prices and excellent reliability.

With prices much better than the ones above. MCM is a great resource as well.


b

I was just in Baltimore, and have a Mit to finish once the part that was ordered is installed by the owner. That should get it working again, at which point we will be looking at me coming back there to fully calibrate it, including the shimming op for o'scan redux.

If you want to be part of that, contact me. I would be glad to calibrate your set, and to fix it as well. There aren't very many calibrators left who are qualified to bring out the best in CRT RPTV anymore. I not only do that, but also fully restore your PS board, whether sent to me or on location with your unit.

The important thing right now is to STOP USING YOUR SET before expensive damage downline from that PS board occurs. DON'T let it warm up to cruising temp again till restored, not even once. Those cold solder joints on the PS board that are now failing in units all over the continent can take many manifestations, and yours is but one that we've heard of here, of the many reported on this thread.

IF IT'S AN INTERMITTENT PROBLEM YOU'RE EXPERIENCING ON YOUR 510/610/710 or 520/620/720 - or the non-Elite versions of the same years - YOU CAN TRUST THAT THE COLD SOLDER CONNECTIONS ON YOUR PS BOARD ARE THE SOURCE OF THAT PROBLEM. Don't take any chances on your multi-thousand dollar unit. Shut it down until your PS board has had the proper attention. Only half the x20 series was affected because they used the same board as the x10 series, but ALL of the x10 series was affected.


If you want to preserve the precision of how your 710 was set up at the factory - highly recommended, the things we do as calibrators build completely on that - DON'T get a new/replacement PS bd for it. That would be starting from scratch, and possibly with a repair tech who has NO idea what real calibration is all about. Voltage and current regulation only have to fall within certain parameters on the PS bd, which supplies ALL the voltages for the rest of the unit, including other power supplies downline from it. Each set is then set up from THAT PS board, the one it was assembled with. No other board will have that same combination of currents and voltages. Yours is the only board that will preserve EVERYTHING the factory did for your set.

For that reason it is best to get THAT board restored completely, rather than replacing it with ANY other board.


Contact me directly if you want to send me the board. It is a piece of cake to get out and put back in, owners all over the country are doing it - not just those who are technically inclined but newbies and totally non-handy types as well.

If you can find a tech willing to just remove the board so you can send it, have someone do that. Should cost you next to nothing. Or if you have a brother or cousin who is handy with a screwdriver, they could do it as well.

I am always glad to coach whoever needs it on the phone, no charge, in how to get it out and put it back in.


b

OK so I finally got around to taking out the 120 IC's and replaced them with the 180IC's. I am now able to move the red and blue when I do the convergenece but the 3 colors still seem to be off and split. Is there something I need to do any this point so I can get a normal picture? I wasn't able to move the blue at all before but is functioning correctly now. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Raj

There's a whole procedure you need to do to get it right, with certain things happening before others, and the sm registers on a Pioneer are not scroll type, they are random access type. Meaning that you have to know what you're doing BEFORE you do it. You can't just flail around in there and try this or that until you get right, or you'll paint yourself into a corner real fast.

Elites are not the easiest brands to do by far. There are lots of nips and tucks. It's best to be in touch with someone in the know about stuff like this.


b

It's Free if you want it! Just haul it away. Fix it up.

I have a Pioneer Pro-510 with the fluctuating brightness issue which requires resoldering the Power Board. In all other respects, it works like a new set. It has less than 700 hours on the tubes. I've decided, reluctantly, to give this TV away and purchase a new Kuro Plasma.

Mr Bob indicated to me he'll take on refurbishing the the powerboard for a reasonable fee and I'm sure he' do it for you too.

If you live within driving distance of Alexandria, Virginia, have a truck, and at least two friends to load it, it's yours!

Respond via PM if interested.

Owners manual and original packing materials if you want them. I'm unable to lift (bad back), so remember, you'll need to bring muscle.

Bob,

When I am in the convergance grid the 3 colors have a curvage in them. One curved upwards, the other ones curves from left to right. What is causing this if I have replaced the IC's to the 180's? Even before replacing the IC's this was the case but couldn't more the Blue around. The only thing that was solved with replacing the 120's with the 180's is that I can control the red and blue color but the grid is not in a straight vertical and horizontal line. by the way I keep saying 120's is because i had them replaced once before from the old 110's. I really don't have the cash flow to have this done out side and am pretty tech savy so please help me on this.

RT