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Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 8

post #211 of 2919
Its been two weeks since my power supply board resolder and there have been no failures. So, I declare it a success! Good luck to others.
post #212 of 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by RABID11 View Post

I must have had the loss of contrast far longer than I thought, as the picture looks fantastic.


Try cleaning the optics now.

Any Pio HDready set of the x10 generation became needful of optics cleaning several years ago for the first time, and by now your set will be needful of a second cleaning, under normal usage of several hours a day.

Your contrast between the lights and the darks will improve immeasurably, and the detail in dark areas will now be present, after not having been present for your eyes to see for years, if it has never been done since new. The "glow" around bright objects with black backgrounds will disappear once fully cleaned.

You will probably have to do the deeper optics cleaning as well, but you won't know until and unless you do the regular optics first.


Mr Bob
post #213 of 2919
Today, other tech came and order part # AWV1872 for my TV.
Now, I am on Right track and no worry for another 4 yrs..
post #214 of 2919
I believe I am having the same problem but so far it is very intermittent. I certainly admire everyone's work in finding a resolution to this problem. I have a feeling it will help many more people to come.

Sadly, I am in the middle of moving so my 610 is in storage with most of my other things until the house is finished so I can't test the tapping method for another 6 months or so.

I am also a little peeved at Pioneer in their lack of customer service. These TVs may look amazing but that alone isn't enough when you spend 6k on one.



How should one go about cleaning one of these or is there somewhere I could be directed to find out how?

Thanks
post #215 of 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by arutha View Post



How should one go about cleaning one of these or is there somewhere I could be directed to find out how?

Thanks


This is a reprint from an answer to a question in the Ask A Calibrator section at the SPot about a certain type of optics cleaner - one of the dry type, I believe - and whether it should be used on RPTVs:



My optics cleaning technique is to suspend ALL the gritty particulates that have built up over the years in liquid before attempting to do ANYTHING with them.

Lenses are usually made of plastic, and are extremely susceptible to being scratched. Even glass lenses can be scratched.

High voltage attracts the smallest of particulates to your optics, including smoke, and it is VERY IMPORTANT not to scratch your optics.

It is also important not to allow any of the liquid to go down into the space between the edge of the lens and the lens barrel. If it does, it will cause the inner lenses to fog up. There are usually 4 lenses in a stack, in each lens pack. 3 guesses as to why I know that...

So when you send your spray to the optics, you DIVE, DIVE, DIVE with your aborbent material to the lowest part of the lens surface, to make sure that doesn't happen - that the liquid doesn't penetrate to the lower levels of the stack, to the inner lenses.

The best stuff I've found for wetting the surface is an aerosol, because it foams up and doesn't run. Don't know what the name of it is, I've only used it a couple of times, when the customer already had it lying around. I usually use non-ammoniated Windex, or Glass Plus, and very very carefully. Non-ammoniated because of the first surface mirrors used in HDreadys. Don't want to be mixing aluminum with ammonia.

Once the mist has penetrated the contaminants and lifted the grit off the surface, a careful swipe in one direction only will get the critical mass of grit off the surface, to one side of the lens. A rolling motion as you do so, like a streetsweeper, is best and will very cleanly remove the bad stuff.

Usually takes several very careful swipes, all in the same direction, to gather and remove all the particulates - and you're done. Then one more very light cleaning swipe -

It is better to leave trace streaks than to rub till the surface is clean. Rubbing is VERBOTEN! Doing so will "scuff" the plastic with thousands of permanent streaks, which you will then rub harder and harder only to find out they don't come out, and you've just exacerbated the situation gravely. 3 guesses as to how I found out about THAT one...


As such, no I don't think these things are the thing to use, unless and until the surface is 99% clean already. I use pure wood fiber paper towels - not shop towels, which contain lanolin and will NEVER get your mirror clean - and the wetting materials mentioned above. On the outer lenses, the mirror, and the inner CRT coolant covers, where you remove the lenses to get to them.

This method has been doing it for me - and very pristinely - for years and years and years.

It's all in the wrist.


Mr Bob





Later:


Some further notes -


When you check ANY of the optics for contaminants, shoot your flashlight at the lens surface FROM THE SIDE. It never looks that bad when you hit it head-on - but Lordy, when you shoot it from the side, MAN, that's dirty...

I usually do just a quick bump from the back of one of my fingers - no more than 3/8" long - to the surface, just to see if that bump turns clear black, in the middle of the gray dust. If it is dirty, it does. If not - if that surface was black and remains black after bumping it with the back of my finger - I may just leave that surface alone.

On the lenses facing up, often to make my point in front of the client, I wet one finger - don't want to DRYRUB any gritty particulates - and draw a happy face in the middle. Viewed from the front at an oblique angle, with the flashlight hitting it from the side, that usually does the trick, when that happy face jumps off the surface at you, revealing how clear your optics are SUPPOSED to be...


If you are removing and going under the lenses, be sure and check the rear surface of the lens pack - the one the becomes exposed when you remove the lenspack, whose surface faces the CRT. It is usually full of smoke, and responds the same way to the "touch" test mentioned above.

When you shoot the Windex in there, be sure and clean the outer surfaces of overspray, before cleaning the lens itself. If you don't - if you just leave it - its moisture is trapped and will eventually fog everything up in there, after you have put things back together.

3 guesses as to how I found out about THAT one...

If you do it after cleaning the surfaces in question, more lint - and other new contaminants - fall onto the surface you just cleaned, than if it is the other way around.


I have found that the actual coolant covers themselves are usually plastic, tho I have seen glass ones - very expensive to do it that way - on Runcos and Pioneer Elites. You can tell by looking at the edge. If it is plastic, you won't really see that edge, it will be inside where the coolant is and not available to your view.

If it is glass, you will see the curvature end, and straight flat glass will go to the edge of the circular chamber, usually just over 1/4" in all directions.


I just completed this protocol on a 6 year old Runco 770 at Harbin Hot Springs last week, and a 9 year old Pioneer PRO-119 last night in Redwood City. The Runco had VERY thick dust on the entire lower half of its glass coolant cover, and its keeper couldn't get over how distinct and impressive the colors had become, later.

The response from the Elite owners was that they had NEVER seen it look that good, even when new. At 9 years old...


Naturally, the rest of my calibration protocol was also applied in each case, after hours of fine precision work.

But the importance of the light path remaining clear as glass in a projection system cannot be stated strongly enough. There are MANY surfaces to deal with in a projection environment, NONE of which exist in a directview environment.

EACH of those surfaces needs its own individual attention.

Especially in the face of the high voltage of the CRTs, which always wants to cause floating airborne contaminants to cling to nearby surfaces over time, hour after hour - multiplied by hundreds of hours of use over time - PER YEAR!

This is definitely an op that cannot be left to chance.


Mr Bob





Later again:


I just learned the name of the foam, which I think has been the same in all cases, just from the look of it.

It is SprayWay Glass Cleaner. Locally, it is available at Restoration Hardware, somewhere here on the Peninsula in the Bay Area.

Elsewhere, I do not know where to get it.



Mr Bob
post #216 of 2919
Tech did change power supply board 3 days ago, and TV was on everyday more than 12hrs.

No More blue flash

Cheers!!!!!!!

It's been almost one month since power supply board changed by tech.
Problem is gone forever. But funny thing I had two times dream about blue flash.
But In real no more blue flash. I am praying when I am watching TV that Now, NO MORE BLUE FLASH..........

I know it's funny that I had blue flash on TV in dream..........
post #217 of 2919
I found this thread today while reading other threads about the new DLP's. It is amazing that so many people have had this problem. I had a service technician come out before I found this thread to try to fix the issue on my 4-year old 610, and he could not figure out what it was, although he thought it might have something to do with one of the boards. But the foks at Pioneer customer service acted like they were mystified about this problem and claimed to have never heard of anything like it before. I believed them, since before I came upon this thread, I had no reason not to. I am really pissed at Pioneer and feel they are either completely dishonest, or incompetent. I may choose to get a repair, but then again I may just buy a new TV just so I don't have to look at the Pioneer Elite name on the front of my set.

P.S. I've been away awhile, and I keep forgetting what an awesome resource this forum is. Thanks for all who have been working and posting to solve this problem.
post #218 of 2919
Hello Folks. I also wanted to add my thanks to the people who took the time to correspond and provide insightful solutions. Although the focus seems trivial viewed against the actions in LA & MS, I'm compelled to give thanks to those who work collectively to provide benefit for those who seek it. I was an early poster who found the thread before a potential solution was considered. I left and dealt with the blue flash, pop & fade-out problem. Shutting the set down each time and praying it would come back on. I recently had to move the set to add a second line for the HR10-250 which, as a result of the vibration from the move, made my PRO-510 useless. It began to shut off more than it was on. I'm not sure if anyone else has experienced it but, the problem can become very frequent. After researching the Sammy 6768 and ready to roll the PRO to the curb, I figured I would check back with the thread to see if any progress was made. Nice progress folks- I performed the surgery (soldering) last night and it's only been a short time but it's amazing what $25 of soldering equipment at Radio Shack can do. PRO works and seems stable. Picture actually looks better. I checked all the connections but focused on E3, E5 (power harness connections), IC204 (per the techs download) and the ground screw that I think DJGUY mentioned. I was ready to trash the unit and figured I would give it a shot. After performing the soldering and getting positive results, I would recommend trying the procedure. The back cover has lots of screws, don't be intimidated. The power board is a little tricky to get out only due to screw locations and it's flimsy. Labels are on the board to find the trouble spots. Soldering takes patience but with proper heating (not overheating) of the items to be soldered and the solder, I was comfortable with the connections. I didn't have any issues w/ bleeding into other ckts but used solder sparingly. Applied where needed (weak connection or open terminal hole)
Materials:
- Shop light
- Magnifying glass
- Soldering iron w/ a small tip (surprisingly, I didn't need an ultra small)
- Small strand silver solder
- Wet kitchen sponge to keep tip clean and control heat

Thanks to all!
post #219 of 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty View Post

I found this thread today while reading other threads about the new DLP's. It is amazing that so many people have had this problem. I had a service technician come out before I found this thread to try to fix the issue on my 4-year old 610, and he could not figure out what it was, although he thought it might have something to do with one of the boards. But the foks at Pioneer customer service acted like they were mystified about this problem and claimed to have never heard of anything like it before. I believed them, since before I came upon this thread, I had no reason not to. I am really pissed at Pioneer and feel they are either completely dishonest, or incompetent. I may choose to get a repair, but then again I may just buy a new TV just so I don't have to look at the Pioneer Elite name on the front of my set.

P.S. I've been away awhile, and I keep forgetting what an awesome resource this forum is. Thanks for all who have been working and posting to solve this problem.

If you are not comfortable with solder then why not just buy new power supply card. Fix N Forget for another three years.
post #220 of 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTEQ View Post

The back cover has lots of screws, don't be intimidated.


Removing the back of the unit is OK. But DON'T REMOVE THE ANGLED BACK. UP WHERE THE MIRROR IS. The whole thing falls apart and your mirror nosedives into your screen, possibly breaking the mirror and definitely scoring the hell out of your screen!

There are special screws to keep you out. DON'T DEFEAT THEM! This applies to most PRO units, don't go looking for the exceptions.

Guess how I know all this...yup...


Quote:


- Soldering iron w/ a small tip (surprisingly, I didn't need an ultra small)
- Small strand silver solder

Thanks to all!


You need a medium tip for the kind of heat you need on this size connection.

But silver solder??? I have never used silver solder for electronics.

That said, I just attended a Mit training seminar, and they are now using LEAD FREE solder! You can't use std. 60-40 solder like we always have, on those ultra new circuits. And you can't use lead free solder on the circuits of the 510. One will not work with the other. Say goodbye to simply $25 worth of RS products...

It also will turn out with a dull finish when done like that, rather than the gleaming finish we all strive for in our solder technique at present.

In their DLPs, there also are no longer any single sided boards. The minimum board layers now are 2 - double layer, with feedthrus.

And there are some boards in there with 8 - count 'em, 8 - layers!

Things, they are a changin'...


Mr Bob
post #221 of 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by pankaj2000 View Post

If you are not comfortable with solder then why not just buy new power supply card. Fix N Forget for another three years.

I am considering this, but I also have two small spots that have developed in the center of the screen. One is pink and is pretty visible, and the other is yellow, and is not too visible from normal viewing distance. A tech that came out to look at it said he thinks that there is some kind of burn in or something on two of the CRT's (Pioneer customer service had no clue of what was causing this problem either) and the tech said he thought both CRT's would have to be replaced (for $600 each). Thus, to make the TV fully functional again, it would be replacing the power supply card and at least one CRT, maybe two, for a total of about $1500?
post #222 of 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty View Post

I am considering this, but I also have two small spots that have developed in the center of the screen. One is pink and is pretty visible, and the other is yellow, and is not too visible from normal viewing distance. A tech that came out to look at it said he thinks that there is some kind of burn in or something on two of the CRT's (Pioneer customer service had no clue of what was causing this problem either) and the tech said he thought both CRT's would have to be replaced (for $600 each). Thus, to make the TV fully functional again, it would be replacing the power supply card and at least one CRT, maybe two, for a total of about $1500?



The pink one is probably actually magenta, or blue/red, indicating a missing spot on your green gun. The yellow one is probably actually red/green, indicating a missing spot on the blue gun.

If you go in and look at a white screen you will most likely find those 2 spots on the guns mentioned, when you look down into the lens of each one. Sometimes spots like this are visible without the TV being on, when you look directly at the CRT face like that while shining a flashlight in there, at different points of the CRT face.

If they are near the middle, chances are the sweeps died their normal natural death upon turn-off, but before the beam had lost its energy, and it stayed a bright dot for a little too long, damaging and sometimes literally vaporizing the phosphors - which are relatively delicate in nature - in that area. Sometimes the same thing happens and streaks occur, sometimes dashed streaks. Mit had a big problem with that back in the V10 chassis days, and had to replace many guns, sometimes all 3 guns needing replacement. I did a few of them.

I'm afraid I agree with the tech.

Sorry, I know that's not good news.


Mr Bob
post #223 of 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

If they are near the middle, chances are the sweeps died their normal natural death upon turn-off, but before the beam had lost its energy, and it stayed a bright dot for a little too long, damaging and sometimes literally vaporizing the phosphors - which are relatively delicate in nature - in that area.

That's basically what the tech explained probably happened too. Thanks for the confirmation.
post #224 of 2919
I have had my set for about 6 years, so I consider myself lucky compaired to some of you other folks. I noticed about 3 weeks ago the same problem with the screen flashing and the contrast changing from bright back down to normal. I doubt I could get a service guy her to do the solder trick. I will probably wait till after Christmas to have the set repaired. I live in Tarpon Springs Florida, if anyone has had a tech come out ,and be willing to do the solder trick please let me know who you used. Otherwise I will just have that powersupply board replaced.
post #225 of 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac42796 View Post

First off I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this Tread. Especially Dave610 for the excellent instructions.

I carefully pulled the board off and took to a work table to do the work. Initially I just heated each of the solder points up to reflow the solder to make a good connection. After doing that I decided to add some solder to each. I did everyone of the "White" connectors on the top left of the board. I also did all the IC's which Had a Heat Sink. There were also about a dozen others that looked suspect so I did those too. I carefully returned the board and tested it out. I touched the same areas with the handle of the screwdriver and NO flickering/Blue flash. I has been 24 hours without a problem.

So for about $0.50 of solder and $2.00 of electricity the problem looks gone.

Having experienced the "blue flash" problem for a month or so on my 5-year-old SD532HD5, I decided to delve into the "fix"...one afternoon while my wife was shopping and not due back home for a few hours :-)

So I removed the PS board, set up my workstation with some good lighting, my trusty 40W Radio Shack med. tipped iron, and re-flowed the connections in a systematic manner.

I added some solder where I thought was appropriate, but mainly just re-flowed the existing solder. A couple of connections looked like cold joints, since they were a dull gray color.

I replaced the board and buttoned things up.

No more blue flash...yeah! BUT...after an hour or so...the audio and video shut down!

I unplug the set for 5 minutes, re-plug and turn on. Voila! Sound and picture! But after a half an hour...yes, you guessed it...no A/V again.

So I just turn the set off, figuring down the line that I'm going to have to shell out for a new PS board at least...IF I can even find one.

Soon the wifey gets home and turns on the set. I skulk off to another room and wait for the inevitable "Honey, there's something wrong with the TV" cry.

Which happens about a half-an-hour later, right on schedule.

Of course, I play dumb, not telling her what I had done while she was out.

I do mention to her that I had read a thread here that owners were having trouble with the power supply board in these sets.

We then discuss new TVs and I point out that we have had good use and much enjoyment from our Pioneer, but maybe it was time for a new DLP 1080p, which could be had for roughly the same price we paid five years ago for the Pioneer.

Not uttering a word, she gets the Pioneer SD532HD5 owner's manual out, goes to the Troubleshooting section, and TELLS ME to open the front panel, press the RETURN button, turn off the main power button, unplug and replug the unit.

Of course, the TV turned on perfectly and had been operating flawlessly for the last 72 hours...no blue flash, no intermittent shutdown...just glorious HD programming.

So now she thinks SHE fixed the shutdown and blue flash problem.

Maybe she actually did!
post #226 of 2919
Thank you to every one that has posted here. Just sorry I did not find this thread earlier! I was just about to dump the set. PRO 510. This will save big $$$.

I too have had the bright/normal thing (just as discribed above) going for 4 months now. The local Pioneer approved service shop could not find the problem when called 3 months ago. My hands are not good enough to solder. So I just call the service shop to either solder or just replace the power board.

Again Thanks every body.
post #227 of 2919
tmmuch -

Well, that's one for the archives. But then again, I HOPE the unit was not still plugged in when you went in. ALWAYS unplug an RPTV before going in! You would not want the cat to step on the ON button of the remote across the room while you are in there with your hands full of circuitry...

Replugging it in after you were done SHOULD have done the master reset you are talking about.

I thought you might have accidentally caused a solder bridge - which is when you inadvertently get too much solder in between 2 connections, causing them to short out against each other.

This is more likely to happen the more connections you do. So it's best to stick to what needs to be done and only expand where you really feel it's necesary.

Congrats to the wife!

Oh, and to you too...



Mr Bob
post #228 of 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

tmmuch -

Well, that's one for the archives. But then again, I HOPE the unit was not still plugged in when you went in. ALWAYS unplug an RPTV before going in! You would not want the cat to step on the ON button of the remote across the room while you are in there with your hands full of circuitry...

Replugging it in after you were done SHOULD have done the master reset you are talking about.

I thought you might have accidentally caused a solder bridge - which is when you inadvertently get too much solder in between 2 connections, causing them to short out against each other.

This is more likely to happen the more connections you do. So it's best to stick to what needs to be done and only expand where you really feel it's necesary.

Congrats to the wife!

Oh, and to you too...



Mr Bob


Yes...the unit was unplugged when I dug in there!

The reset procedure as described in the Owner's Manual, however arcane and unlikely it seems, got the job done...at least for now. Maybe that "Return" button degausses something...I dunno.

From whatever I've been able to decipher from this thread, there doesn't seem to be one definitive solder joint causing the flash, so I carefully touched up most, if not all, of them.

But my wife...I think I'll keep her.
post #229 of 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by pankaj2000 View Post

If you are not comfortable with solder then why not just buy new power supply card. Fix N Forget for another three years.

It's been almost one month since power supply board changed by tech.
Problem is gone forever. But funny thing I had two times dream about blue flash.
But In real no more blue flash. I am praying when I am watching TV that Now, NO MORE BLUE FLASH..........

I know it's funny that I had blue flash on TV in dream..........
post #230 of 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by pankaj2000 View Post

But funny thing I had two times dream about blue flash.

Interesting, you had two "dreams" about the blue flash, and yet Pioneer (according to them) has not even had two complaints about the blue flash. I guess they're not staying awake nights worrying about it.
post #231 of 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty View Post

Interesting, you had two "dreams" about the blue flash, and yet Pioneer (according to them) has not even had two complaints about the blue flash. I guess they're not staying awake nights worrying about it.


The reason for dreams, I think, is I had blue flash problem for almost 18 months. So I fall in love with blue flash. and you know what happens in LOVE........Dreams...........

some of elite owners are very lucky that they found thread quick with brother GOOGLE.........................
post #232 of 2919
Hello,

I posted my work 8-31-05. Just checking-in to let it be known I'm still problem free.

Thanks again to all who contributed to finding solutions & listing their finding on this site. My PRO510 has a second life and its owner is happy.
post #233 of 2919
I too have a Pioneer set (PRO 510HD) with the "blue flash" issue. I contacted Pioneer more than a year ago and have had a service tech come out. Unfortunately at the time it never flashed while he literally stood in front of the set for an hour or more so he requested I bring the set in. Obviously that's nearly impossible. It's been doing the power-down trick for the last few months so it's definitely time I do something. So I emailed Pioneer today about it. This was their response when I asked them if they had any other reports like it or a recall. I also asked what they would to to help...

"There were no recalls on the listed model. There also were no noted problems with the unit."

That's it! That's all they saidl. So I replied...

"Odd since I know of several other owners who have reported this issue to Pioneer within the last year. Either way I still have an unusable set. What do you suggest I do with it?"

Haven't heard back yet. In the meantime I may just order a new power supply board and the service manuals (unless someone knows of a free pdf version of the service manuals) and replace the board. I don't like it, but I want my set back.
post #234 of 2919
You can find a link to a pdf of the most useful parts of the Service Manual here:

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/brand...neer_tips.html

direct link to the pdf:

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~snyderje/610serv_man.PDF
post #235 of 2919
Ya'll may have saved my 510. I have been having the blue flash (minor irritation) and the 'pop/shutdown' (major irritation). I got on this forum due to a frantic search to save my 510 after an authorized tech diagnosed problem as a bad transformer or a dying tube. After an extensive review of this forum, I had my business' mechanic, electrician, electronics wizard come to the house. We pulled the power supply card which he too criticizied as flimsy and 'old tech'; he did like the support frame it was on. Using the forum notes I printed, he quickly went to work and found exactly the
same solder problems that you all have detailed. The whole process took less than 90 minutes. Even though it's only been a few days, I have had no further problems and seem to have an improved picture. I'll try to post again in a few days.

Here is an outline of what he did:
1. resoldered pins 1 - 13 at E3 (1&2 were partiallt cracked, 13 conpletely)
2. TC (or JC) 202 & 204: area around them heat discolored and joints looked cold but intact - resoldered
3. E2 - resoldered partial cracks on pins: GND, GND, and 304
4. generally resoldered all connector pins

He strongly believes that primary problem was #1 above. Best of luck to all and thanks so much for your efforts.

Roger
post #236 of 2919
With this kind of repair history, I am just glad Pioneer designs these things to withstand this kind of abuse.

There are other kinds of designs where if there is a non-connection in one part of the circuitry, it can cause problems in other parts of the circuitry which can then domino effect even further downline. One part can be deprived of voltage, causing another part to get too much voltage, and all of sudden damage is everywhere.

I once tried to fix a problem on a Phililps board of a Magnavox bigscreen, and because the owner did not want to spring for a new board, I spent 6 months trying to ferret out the problem. Never could. He finally junked the set.

On a Sony, I once forgot to reconnect ONE thin little black ground wire at the HV sample circuit, and when I turned it back on, HV had no path to ground and took out an IC halfway across the board - while leaving everything else alone - and damaged the power supply board beyond my ability to fix it, requiring replacement. Also blew the blue gun, requiring replacement and recalibration of that, as well. When I say be thorough about putting things back together in there, and DON'T DISCO ANYTHING YOU DON'T NEED TO, I mean it.

There are hazards in there we have no way of knowing about, and that's us seasoned professional repair people. I have well over 20 years in the repair end of things - not just in the calibration end, where there's more than 20 years under my belt also.

I know another tech who maintains all his own stage gear, and provides humonguously powered stage gear to the entertainment industry here in the Bay Area. He once sat me down and had me WRITE OUT a schematic, rather than just using a copier on it, just to teach me one thing about electronics that I had not quite achieved critical mass of knowledge on yet. He was fixing a Macintosh Audio amp once - a huge one, part of a rack of huge ones for stage use, you'll see them at concerts, banks of them, providing the tens of thousands of watts used in coliseum concerts - and pointed out why they were so easy to fix, all due to the designs they used that kept any damage strictly contained, and minus any bouncing around and/or domino-effecting to other parts of the circuitry.

Back then, Macintosh Audio used to provide seminars all over the country - clinics where you could bring in your amp, of whatever brand, and they would run a distortion test on it free of charge and give you a readout of its overall power level and at what power level it would distort. As far as their own amps, if it was broken they would fix it for you, also at no charge. I once saw one of their techs let out a shout, and 2 minutes later he was holding up a part in his hemostat - it was one tiny little quarter watt resistor!

That's all it takes to bring down a monster amp, BTW.

So while owners on this thread have every right to be upset about the customer service end of this whole thing, and while solder flow/manufacturing should have made their solder connections to last, rather than wearing out, let's raise a toast to the designers of the Pioneer bigscreens, where their designs allow us - even those of you with very little technical experience - to go in there and use the data given here to simply go ahead and fix them, right here, right now. Usually first time, and with no aftershocks. And a lasting fix.

Gotta give the devil his due. The design department deserves recognition. You wouldn't be that lucky on all brands.

Here here!


Mr Bob
post #237 of 2919
If the Pioneer/Elite low-voltage card was designed/built like a MC-225, this forum wouldn't even exist :-)
post #238 of 2919
Up until a month ago, I have had a love hate relationship with my Pro-610. After reading this thread, I'm glad to see that I haven't been alone in my frustration (it must be that whole misery enjoys company thing).

I originally purchased my unit in April 2000, and and in 2003 began to see the blue, fade, pop. After describing the problem to Pioneer in 2003, they told me that it must be something singular to my unit and also threw in the "it doesn't matter anyway since your warranty has expired" line just to make me feel better. Upset that my $6000 "top of the line" tv had only lasted three years, I was even more disturbed by the fact that Pioneer didn't even seem concerned about documenting the problem just in case other owners had a similar issue.

About a year an a half ago, I bit the bullet and paid a local tv repair shop to take a stab at fixing the problem. After $250 and still no solution, I was on the verge of giving up. Last month, in one last desperate attempt for inner peace, I tried another google search to see if anyone else was having the same problem. Needless to say it was a good day when I found this thread.

I just wanted to thank everyone here for taking the time to post their experiences-especially RABID11 for the detailed instructions on repairing the Power Supply board. The day after I found this site, I went to Radio Shack, bought a new soldering iron and commenced the operation he described. My TV has been flicker free for over a month, and for now, back in good grace.

I would also like to go one step further, however, and add my name to the list of folks interested in a class action lawsuit. While my repair worked, I'm no professional and it's anyone's guess as to how long it will hold up. Unfortunately, by making the repair, I'm afraid that I no longer have a defective board and from the sounds of everyone else's experiences, Pioneer would probably turn around and blame me for any defects to their "perfect" product. Oh well, so much for justice. Anyway, thanks again everyone for the help.
post #239 of 2919
Add me to the list of people with this problem.

Add me to the list of people who fixed the problem with solder.

I very much appreciate the effort that many put in on this. It saved me a lot of hassle, and several hundred bucks, for certain.

As to the Class Action lawsuit, I'd say forget it. The lawyers will end up getting most of the money, and we'd be left with $500 coupons for Elite Plasmas. No, thanks.

So, my TV is back to working perfectly, but it doesn't make me feel too well, being left in the lurch on a $5000 set, warranty or not. I'll spend my money more wisely next time, I suppose.

Todd
post #240 of 2919
Back when my problem first started the local tech actually asked me if the flash was blue and if there was a pop. At the time it was subtle enough that I couldn't tell him whether it was or not. I called a couple of days ago and had the phrases "blue flash" and "definite pop" added to my ticket (which they still had handy). I got a call back later in the day stating that they knew exactly what the problem was and told me a range of how much it would cost to fix ($200-$500). It's a range because he will decide whether to replace or resolder the board once he takes a look at it. I don't like paying to fix something that is blatantly poor manufacturing, but at least I'll have my set back soon.
I agree that it's nice that the rest of the set is built to handle the abuse. Pioneer must be like Chrysler - good design, poor manufacturing quality.
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