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Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 71

post #2101 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoHo View Post

Well, I replaced the ICs in my PRO-710HD...and I'm not sure it fixed my problem. I ordered 2 new chips from MCM Electronics (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...tid=STK392-180) and had them professionally soldered on since I didn't trust myself to do it. It's only been a few days, but my convergence seems to shift ever so slightly, even after the full warmup period. Bear in mind, the shift is very subtle, and seems to only be the red. It's barely noticeable, other than when I'm looking at the multi-point grid or when there are light colors against a dark background.

Any ideas? Bob, I'm not sure if this is relevant, but it seems to have started happening after you did my calibration, which included correcting the overscan (but NOT using the shim method).

Major changes happen in the o'scan redux op if you don't use the shim method, and perhaps the set needed to settle a bit with the new settings. The whole conv paradigm gets pushed into entirely different areas for the registers to go.

And some of us see these things a lot more readily than others.

Age can be a factor. I have heard of conv drift starting to happen spontaneously after the set has been operating faithfully for years. In which case replacing the aging ICs seems to do the trick.

How far from your set do you sit? That can be a factor in more readily seeing errors.

Remember that aside from the 45 minute warmup period on turn-on, it also takes 100 hours for new conv ICs to "burn in", or stop drifting. After that 100 hours your conv should be much more stable than during the first 100 hours of their service life, where a lot of drift happens, just naturally.


b
post #2102 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoHo View Post

Man...I guess this thread will never die.

...

I know Mr. Bob has a service where I can send the board to him for repair, but I would rather not have to wait the 2-4 weeks it may take to get it back.


"May" being the operative word here. It is always subject to the workload of PS boards awaiting my attention, and my workload of other stuff needing doing, here in my home area.

Today I had nothing scheduled and there were no other boards here to do - had gotten them all off to their owners again, well within promised turnaround spec - and a board arrived here at around 11am. So I hopped on it. I got it out to Fedex again before pickup time today. Same day service, no extra charge.

Can't always promise that - sometimes things are so backed up that I have to charge extra to follow the request I sometimes get, to put someone's board to the head of the line and get it back to them next day - but sometimes we all get lucky.

Like today -


b
post #2103 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Remember that aside from the 45 minute warmup period on turn-on, it also takes 100 hours for new conv ICs to "burn in", or stop drifting. After that 100 hours your conv should be much more stable than during the first 100 hours of their service life, where a lot of drift happens, just naturally.

Bob, this could very well be the issue. I definitely don't have 100 hours on the new ICs yet.
post #2104 of 2918
Relax then. All will be well soon -



b
post #2105 of 2918
I have the 710 and when I picked it up it didn't turn on. I found the 5-amp fuse was blown. I replaced it and the TV came on. I then had the power supply re-soldered (thanks Bob) and the TV worked great for about four days and the 5-amp fuse went again.

Now everything I could find in this thread points to the ICs being bad. Does this seem right?

I don't have access to the TV to see which led is lighting up on the boards. My mom is using the TV in a different state.

Any and all help is appreciated


Ken T
post #2106 of 2918
Going strictly on probabilities, your answer sounds correct.


b
post #2107 of 2918
I just added some pix to my Don't Dump your CRT RPTV! thread - not your specific brand, but definitely shows what CRT is capable of. Is a Mit, so keep that in mind and enjoy, even if you'd just like to see what YOUR set can look like with the appropriate care and attention -



b

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post17508339
post #2108 of 2918
So today I sent off my third board done in a day. The workload has been light recently, allowing me to be there for that. I am sure owners who are getting their boards back quickly will be overjoyed to be getting their sets going again back to solid operations in record time.

It's good for me, and it's good for you owners too. I do try to do this all the time. Can't always, but I do try!




b
post #2109 of 2918
Over the weekend I received a bonus ! I found an elite 510 on the web that the owner was giving away for free and was only about an hour from my home, so now I have 2 510s! I cost me $24 to rent a uhaul. It was not working and he was not going to get it fixed as he called a service tech and they told him is would cost him big bucks to fix it, without even looking at it. The symptom is the classic PS board problem. I removed the Power Supply board and the soldering is very flat and I can see visible holes/cracks in solder of some of the larger test points and some halo’s on other points. I spent 3 hours on the resoldering yesterday, about another 1-2 to finish the job. I had resoldered the PS on my existing unit and this new set looks in a little worse condition, but hopefully my soldering skill is now even better second board around. I’m hoping the unit will power up after the resolder operation. The unit appears as if it has never been opened up so it’s very dusty inside, and the outside cabinet is scuffed up more than I’d like with some paint chipped off near the bottom, and a couple scratches on the protective plastic, and the grill cloth needs work.

Not sure what I’ll do with it when it’s working, but thinking I'll use it to learn how to perform the shimming process before I perform it on my existing set. Also may consider swapping the guns to get the ones with the best performance in my existing set.
post #2110 of 2918
Just remember to inspect inspect inspect! The double and triple inspections I perform on each and every board after my resoldering process are very time consuming, but absolutely necessary. You don't want to stick your resoldered board back in to your otherwise fully operational set if there's even a CHANCE of having missed something.



b
post #2111 of 2918
Thanks MR Bob I will heed your advice. I usually do a 4x4 square then swap the iron for a magnifying glass to inspect what was just done. The hardest ones are on the connector pins such as the E3 as they are very small. Is there a problem bridging the points that are listed as the same, ie I see 3 consecutive ground pins, a few consecutive 5V and 12 V's pins on the connectors which seem to all go back to the source on the board ? Also do you reflow and add solder to the lines that look like worm trails on the board ?
post #2112 of 2918
It's OK to join those doubles and triples you mentioned.

I add solder only, I don't remove any. No need to.

No, I don't redo the "trails", no. No need. The heat/cold-expand/contract phenom doesn't happen at the trails, it happens at the components themselves, including raised resistors, ICs, transistors and heat sinks - tho the heat sinks don't get directly connected to anything in there, and can be spared the resoldering process. Which is good, because resoldering heat sinks requires a whole next level of heat from that of normal soldering iron temps. And thus special soldering equipment, which thankfully is not needed.

Test points can also be skipped, because they don't go anywhere or do anything while the unit is operational.




b
post #2113 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by czc587 View Post

Thanks for sharing your experience. When you cleaned your lenses did you take the lens barrel apart and clean each of the lenses, or did you just remove the lens pack for the base and clean the top and bottom lenses ?

When I last looked at my lenses I noticed the red and green lens pack have a piece of silver metallic tape, about a quarter inch wide and 2 inches long going across the lens (should of taken a pic - sorry). Is this tape stripe normal ? I was tempted to disassemble the lens pack/barrel to take it off, but thought I better check here first before I get that involved !

My picture looks fine, except there is a light yellowish/red patch about 3 inches wide near the center of the screen and I'm wondering if its because of this tape ? The patch is not usually noticeable unless the screen is white, so it's annoying when watching a hockey game (with the white rink).
Appreciate your help and thoughts.

Sorry I didn't respond sooner...stopped getting emails about new posts for some reason. Anyway, seems like you've moved well past your question based on what I've read. Still, I'll answer the question.

No, I didn't take apart the barrel. I couldn't figure out how it came apart, or if it was supposed to, so I only cleaned the lenses that were exposed. The deep concave lenses threw me for a loop too. Still worried I didn't clean them correctly.

So all total, I cleaned nine surfaces, ten if you count the mirror.

Tell ya what though, reading this thread is both a benefit and a nightmare! I'm so worried about convergence boards going out and if/when my PS board is gonna die, despite not seeing any problems to cause worry.

I do know my wife is starting to complain about not being able to read text at the bottom of the screen due to the overscan, so that's starting to work in my favor when it comes to justifying the day I can afford Mr Bob to fix it
post #2114 of 2918
Thanks for your clarification, sounds like your cleaning was similar to mine. I'd think if you cleaned the 3 concave lenses on the CRT assy with sprayway and it looked good under light, you're OK.

Are you saying your PS board has never been resoldered and its still working OK ? That's an interesting scenario, if you want to proactively resolder it, or wait until it finally goes. Sounds like it just a matter of time before it goes. I'd be tempted to do it before it goes, on my timetable, vs having it go just before the superbowl game, and chancing other boards also going ?

My wife is also bugging me about the overscan. The NFL game scores on Fox are always hidden. I'm hoping this latest 510 I'm working on will power up and I can use it to learn on ( probably donate it to the church when I'm finished with it)

On another note I see there are 3 service manuals for the 5/6/710. 2 of them are availalbe here, anyone seen the third version, ie,ARP3086 Service Manual S/M(NEW)PRO710HD/610HD/510HD, or know if it has any additional useful information ?
post #2115 of 2918
Yep, owned the set for 9 years now and have never had the blue flicker of death. Maybe SoCal climate is not so bad for the boards?

Here's another question for Mr Bob...

Even after cleaning my lenses, there's still a (for lack of a better word) blemish that is on my screen. Are there other surfaces below the guns that could potentially need cleaning? I've mentioned it before, but years ago I had a lizard find its way inside my set (saw the little bastard's silhouette crawl up my screen!) and think it's possible he could've left a deposit on some surface. When it didn't go away after cleaning the lenses, it really left me puzzled. Ideas?
post #2116 of 2918
I haven't seen anything about it on the Pio, but some other brands have had a problem of something growing in the coolant and making it cloudy.
post #2117 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

From your description your blue appears to be pre-aged in that area, or maybe there is some kind of growth in there impeding the blue in that area. I can't really see it on your pix.

Look directly into your blue lens and see if anything is growing in there. I call it "cooties in the coolant".

b

I'm wondering if I'm having the same problem ( see post 2087), and I've heard about replacing the coolant but not really sure what it entails. Has anyone done this on a 5/6/710 and can give some advice or share the steps ? When replacing the coolant are you also able to clean the inside of the lower concave lens and remove the "cooties in the coolant" ?
post #2118 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutyertrap View Post

Yep, owned the set for 9 years now and have never had the blue flicker of death. Maybe SoCal climate is not so bad for the boards?

Here's another question for Mr Bob...

Even after cleaning my lenses, there's still a (for lack of a better word) blemish that is on my screen. Are there other surfaces below the guns that could potentially need cleaning? I've mentioned it before, but years ago I had a lizard find its way inside my set (saw the little bastard's silhouette crawl up my screen!) and think it's possible he could've left a deposit on some surface. When it didn't go away after cleaning the lenses, it really left me puzzled. Ideas?

That surface of your screen prolly needs cleaning. The inner one is the fresnel, but the smooth side is usually what's facing the mirror. Not an easy task, and things could go wrong, so only do that blem. Be careful -

b
post #2119 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by czc587 View Post

I'm wondering if I'm having the same problem ( see post 2087), and I've heard about replacing the coolant but not really sure what it entails. Has anyone done this on a 5/6/710 and can give some advice or share the steps ? When replacing the coolant are you also able to clean the inside of the lower concave lens and remove the "cooties in the coolant" ?

Have not seen this being an issue with the CRT Elites. Unless absolutely needed, this op should be avoided like the plague.

b
post #2120 of 2918
To all,

I have a Pioneer Elite Pro510HD that is in working condition. Input 1 in HD works but all others are off aligned. Can be fixable if you have the time to sit and fix all the grids in factory mode. I'm in North Jersey and willing to let the TV go for a meer 200.00 dolllars or sell any of its parts before i let it go. All the parts on the TV are in working order. If anyone is looking for anything, please contact me at rajtailor7@verizon.net. Especially if you are looking for the power supply board. It's only about 2 years old since I replaced it and goes for over $400.00, I'll sell it cheap.
post #2121 of 2918
Seems a shame to break up a fully operational set, by offering the parts individually. This should only be done on a set which has been disabled and will not be fixed, where lots of the parts are still good.

I recommend you sell this set only as a fully operational unit, not part it out. $200 for a fully operational set that cost over $5000 when new should bring you a buyer promptly!




b
post #2122 of 2918
I have a PRO 610-HD which I purchased new in 2000. No Power Board problems until now (I think). What I am seeing is constant horizontal noise stripes up and down the screen. Very distracting and causes me to believe the set is in trouble.

I had a tech come out to clean the lenses and reconverge, hoping that the cure for my problem I have was a simple PM away. Well, the picture does look a lot better but the noise bars are still there. The tech advised me that he felt it was probably the Power Board but could be the Deflector Board (the guy actually owns the same set).

I am having difficulty biting off $650 to fix this set. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

PS - I started fixing electronics in the early 1980's. Have the capacity, just need some direction.
post #2123 of 2918
Sounds like noise bars, also called hum bars. Grounding in your sys among your sources is not right, probably not any of the internal boards are at fault.

Check which source component is causing the problems by removing one after the other until this goes away. Cable is usually the primary offender on this kind of thing.

Which can be remedied by using a ground isolating signal conveyor on the coax line.


b
post #2124 of 2918
Thanks Bob. I'm on it.
post #2125 of 2918
Grounding is a tricky animal. Too much can cause ground loops, too little can cause ingress noise. Gotta play around with it. Let us know how it turns out -

b
post #2126 of 2918
I think we just had this problem too.. We didnt notice any tell tale signs, then i was told the tv just started going dimmer and dimmer then shut off...

When we attempt to turn it on, we get one loud click followed by 9 'chirps' as the tv seems to be attempting to turn itself on..

I watched the back of the TV as this happens.. after the 8th chirp a red light comes on next to the P.S Assembly label, Then a 9th chirp happens a slight second after that light comes on. Its not as in rythym as the other 8 chirps..

I took the board out and attempted to soilder the 'lines' but not alllll the dots. I'm an amateur at it (done guitar work, built a pedal, soldered a playstation, so my work isn't too sloppy, definately no bridges), but when i put it back in, it still does the exact same thing, So i dont think i made it any worse but I didnt make it any better.. I can hear a slight hum from the back of the tv which seems to change in pitch slightly after its been on a few seconds.. Could something else be our problem? We hate to toss this 64 inch.. But it's just not worth it to us to spend 250+ to have some repair guy fix it..

forgot to add, i bought a multimeter and each of the 5 fuses reads 0.00 (with an occasional - sign coming up, but thats probably from this cheap multimeter not having the best tolerances). So I believe the fuses to be in working order.. Is there no FU101 fuse? I just see 102 and 103.. wierd.
post #2127 of 2918
If your PS board is vertically mounted it's the same one as on the x10 series, which is what this thread is all about. If not - if it's floor mounted - then nothing in this thread really applies.

Sounds like you have something going on there that has nothing to do with the PS board. Perhaps the conv ICs have started shorting, which might cause this.

In any event, you have every right to not sink any more $ into your set, but if it were my set, I certainly would not limit the $ I would spend to less than $250. That's just a slap in the face to how good this set is capable of looking, and that it is capable of stomping on most of the fixed pixel competition out there - and ALL of the highly affordable fixed pixel - in its size range, when its capacities have been fully optimized. Remember it is capable of the same performance as the Elite versions. The only significant difference is the high gloss piano black finish on the Elites. The electronics and optics are the same between the 2 series.

I would get the thing fixed and its performance optimized. It's a 58"! Have you seen what they charge for that size out there???

But that's just me...



b
post #2128 of 2918
Quote:
Originally Posted by czc587 View Post

I'm wondering if I'm having the same problem ( see post 2087), and I've heard about replacing the coolant but not really sure what it entails. Has anyone done this on a 5/6/710 and can give some advice or share the steps ? When replacing the coolant are you also able to clean the inside of the lower concave lens and remove the "cooties in the coolant" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Have not seen this being an issue with the CRT Elites. Unless absolutely needed, this op should be avoided like the plague.

b


Mr Bob,

I looked into the blue crt today and can see the "blemish" which is giving me the yellowish patch on a white screen. So I'd like your opinion on an approach. I have 2 510's one is my viewing set (the one with the blemish on the blue crt) and the other is a working set that I play around with to test with and will eventually donate to an organization like our church. However the one I am planning to donate has a nicer pic than my viewing set, but its cabinet is badly messed up. It was given to me because it was not working (PSB problem) and the cabinet is badly scratched, dented and abused, but the pic and crt are in great condition.

What would be ideal would be to swap the insides of the one I am to donate with the one I wish to keep, but I know that would be a big job. I'm wondering however if it might be doable to just swap the crt trays (ie the tray with all 3 guns attached) ? OR would it be better to try and only swap the blue gun ? It looks like to swap the tray would be a matter of disconnecting the reconnecting many connectors, then a reconvergence ?
post #2129 of 2918
Everything in your set is matched up to everything else. The only way to consider doing something like this is to swap everything out that connects to anything else critical - meaning boards and CRT array. Speakers, front panel, viewscreens, mirror etc. do not apply, they can stay.

It'll be a big job, but not undoable. Mit makes their light box come out with some inline connectors disco'd and 11 screws, so it can be taken down to anyone's shop and worked on. Pioneer doesn't make it quite that simple, but I know that at least the CRT array comes out fairly straightforwardly, as we know from the shimming op.

I'd wager that the boards come out also, with relatively minor effort.

But both sections have to stay a matched set.


b
post #2130 of 2918
If it was me.... I know I'd swap whatever parts I needed to between the two sets in order the have a set with the best possible picture for myself.

If you have the two sets on hand to do such a thing, why would you not? Granted the cabinet in the one with the best parts is banged up, I can certainly understand why you would not want the set that looks physically banged up, but it also has the better picture due to it's internal parts being in better condition. So why give away the better picture aspect of it to someone else? When you have the option of swapping out the better internal parts from it, over into the set you are keeping.
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