Pioneer Elite Pro-510 problem - Page 96

I trust you've unplugged it for at least 10 seconds, to clear the micro. And checked the fuses with gear and not just eyeballs...

Any red LEDs on in there once it goes to protection, on any other boards?

I'll be glad to check your conv bd if you want to send it my way. There will be a check-out fee, of course.

b

Bob, it was unplugged for months, so the micro should have been cleared. I did try unplugging it several times (for more than 10 seconds) and still no go.

I did check the fuses using a multimeter - however, I will say I wasn't 100% sure I was doing it right. I didn't take the fuses out of the PS board, but I had it unplugged. I then dialed the multimeter to the OHM section and touched the two leads (red and black) to either end of each fuse while still in the PS board. All of them got some type of reading. What I wasn't sure was if the reading had to be a certain number. Also, does it matter which way the fuses are in the board? Because I did take one of them out and put it back in and wasn't 100% sure I put it in the same way. But I did try reversing it and got the same result.

No other red LEDs come on other than the one on the PS board. I even turned out all the lights and plugged it in to check. As soon as I plug it in, I hear the click, and then about 2 seconds later I hear the click again and see the red light.

I just don't think I have it in me to send the convergence board to you. Maybe if you were closer, or if I knew for sure it would get it resolved. I've just spent too much money and time on this TV over the last year trying to get it up and running and have nothing to show for it. So unless you have any other suggestions, it might be time for me to retire it for good...

Any fuses in there that don't give you a dead short reading on your continuity meter are most likely blown. A fuse that's good reads dead short even if still in circuit.

Best way to check a fuse out of circuit is simply to lift 1 end while leaving the other end in its holder. If a fuse reads a dead short while one of its ends is simply sticking up in the air like that, that fuse is good. If any 1 of that grouping of four fuses around the power transformer is blown, the unit will do exactly as you're describing.

Don't give up, you're almost there.

B
Edited by Mr Bob - 12/8/12 at 8:45pm

Sorry, Mr. Bob, I don't know what you mean by "dead short".

Should I maybe just try replacing all 4 of the fuses? I can't imagine that would cost too much and could probably get them some place like Radio Shack?

Scott, replacing the 4 fuses would do the trick yes, as long as you got all 4 with the correct matching sizes and amperage values. But if you don't know enough about electricity to know what a dead short is, or how to measure that or impedance/resistance, you really need to call in someone who does. It's too easy to get these things wrong even with what seems like a simple fuse replacement, and wind up with the wrong value fuses in the wrong fuse holders.

Since you are a customer of mine from a while ago who has gladly paid me to optimize his set - and I believe chipped in on flying me there to do so - send me the convergence board and I will be glad to check it out for you, no charge. Or send both that and the PS board, I will check that one out too, also no charge.

Don't be stymied, there are those to whom such things come easy, and those to whom these things come hard. I am sure you are an ace in things that would stymie me.

So let me be of service to you. Get me those boards and I'll pop them into my 610, which is patiently awaiting the next board to test, and let's get that part of it out of the way. I'll give you the skivvy on what I found and send them back to you fully tested. Or repaired, if needed, we can talk more about that, but if it's just a bad fuse I'll take care of that for you and send your boards back posthaste.

b
Edited by Mr Bob - 12/9/12 at 9:29am

Here it is again, that same popup, which occurs when I want to answer a post. It says:

The page at www.rewardsdaily.net says:

Congratulations Avsforum Visitor!

You are the survey winner for: Sunday, December 9th, 2012 (or whatever today's date is)
Please complete the following Avsforum survey to claim your gift.

(With an OK box to check.)



Now that I look at it closely, it comes from www.rewardsdaily.net, not from AVS Forum. However it has evidently copied the AVS Forum part of it from somewhere, and is using it.

Once you hit OK, the next box says

Congratulations!

Monthly Avsforum Giveaway

You have been selected to participate in an anonymous Avsforum survey. For a limited time, we are offering selected participants an a chance to win an exclusive gift for participating. To begin, please complete Step 1. Participation required.

Step 1: Complete this survey and click "Submit Survey and Continue".
1. How often do you visit this website
Once a week
Several times a week
This is my first visit

2. Are you male or female?
Male
Female
Prefer not to say

3. Will you visit again?
Yes
No
Not sure

(in a box) Submit Survey and Continue


Pretty simple questions, and then of course you "win". I will not be continuing this time, but they have AVS Forum all over this thing. And the extra "an" in there was in their script, as the second part was able to be copy/pasted, while the first part had to be typed out longhand. Bad grammar is one of the first signs of illiteracy.. And phishing...

It proceeds to offer deal after deal, with a SKIP box at the bottom, usually out of sight until and unless you scroll down to it, and a note saying you have to answer to proceed. You don't. You can always hit SKIP, tho for the first one I did not because I had not discovered that SKIP box yet, and did get something in my inbox later from Shop At Home.

I skipped all the others, and in the end they gave me a choice of 3 prizes, one of which was an ipad, another of which was a $500 Visa debit card. I never did the final click tho, as the things they were asking for were classic phishing questions. Again, I am not sure if they got enough already to be sending out info about me to those wringing their hands with glee at the thought of another mark to send spam to.

Not sure how to proceed from here...

b
Edited by Mr Bob - 12/9/12 at 9:33am

Thanks Mr. Bob. I appreciate that. I will give it some thought. Might have to price out the shipping back and forth coast to coast for both boards.

So let me ask you this, if I were to send you both boards and you determine they are both in working order, what would be the next step?

Also to my previous question about the fuses, assuming it is the correct size and amperage, does it matter which end is where when inserted into the PS board?

Fuses are non-directional, so either way they are inserted will work just fine.

If both boards are OK and check out in my test unit and still your set does not turn on and stay on, then something else is afoot within your set. Possibly the deflection board, as these 3 boards are all that ever really have issues in these sets. Anything outside of that will be something I have not see at all in my 7 years of dealing with these sets over at the Pioneer Elite PRO 510 Problem thread, and will be WAY off the beaten path. In such a case you'll need to call in someone local, but again, that's a very scant probability, with this series of set.

Not losing your set, esp. after I have calibrated it for you and all the enjoyment it has given you so far fully calibrated, is definitely worth some shipping money.



b

Rainy Saturday morning - time to do a deep optics cleaning on the old 610.

Over 10 years old and the picture is still amazing. Tone of colors and life like images after a cleaning the picture is unreal. I have a Panasonic Plasma and a Sharp LCD but the Pioneer is still the King.

I love this thread.

I've been reading since it started. Mr Bob helped keep my Elite 510HD alive several years beyond what I believed possible. Since early 1999, my Elite black monolith has been center stage in my man-cave. The power board was resoldered five years ago due to the dreaded blue flash and I thought it was goners then. It has performed perfectly since and required no other professional maintenance in almost 14 years. Yes, 14 years! Can the same be said of any other complex heavily used electrical appliance? These Pioneers, along with their sibling Kuro Plasmas, set the absolute standard for their time. Yes, my Elite does require tweaking, it weighs almost as much as a Mini, now requires cooling fans to dissipate heat, and requires a small nuc reactor to power. But it still produces a quality picture using Blu-ray discs in 1080i I'd happily stick next to any display today.

However, there's a new kid on the block and it may replace my beloved Elite. It's OLED, a technology with the potential to overcome all the issues Plasma and LCD/LED panel owners gripe about. LG has today announced they will start selling consumer ready panels this year, first in Korea, then likely here in the United States. Yes, it will expensive and it is an untested technology in large panel sizes. But Pioneer Elites in 1999, were new technology and were wallet busting expensive compared to big screen TVs of their day. They were almost twice as expensive as their nearest rear projection HD rival...and there were few rivals. OLED is likely to be similar.

So finally a technology emerges which may unseat my Elite. We'll see. Until then, I'll keep reading this great thread, tweak my Elite, and hope Mr Bob keeps helping us oldtimers.

Happy New Year!

Great to hear from you, Dave!

All you say is absolutely true, including that Pioneer Elite and non-Elite CRT technology continues to keep the bar super high in comparisons with other displays, even today. If you still own one, owners out there, you're sitting on a gold mine. Get it cleaned and calibrated and it will look better than new. Keep it cleaned and calibrated, as it is only halfway thru its 20 year service life. I remain available, domestically and internationally, for such services and will continue to do so.

OLED had been on the scene already for a couple of years last time I went to CES, 3 years ago. At that time you could snag an 11" Sony OLED for only $2500! And they had a 27"er there, largest made at that time, but it was proprietary only and not in production. Yes that million:1 contrast ratio was amazing to see in person. And you can wrap OLED around curves if you want, it's a flexible medium.

Since I am finally going to CES again in a week, I can't wait to see the new advancements in OLED for myself. There's also AMOLED and a few other variations now.

But CRT still continues to lead the pack in contrast ratio among the other technologies. Cliff in Indiana added a third G90 to his already classic G90 double stack, and the passive, non-dynamic measured contrast ratio was above 525,000:1. He sent in screenshots from it which were absolutely dazzling, every bit as good as the million:1 CR I saw from the Sony OLED at CES.

So hang in there with your Elite. It is still the cat's meow on many levels, esp. the one where dollars come into it.

Display owners: I will be in Vegas in a week! Let's get a beer!



b
Edited by Mr Bob - 1/2/13 at 9:56am

Mr Bob,

Thanks for your spot-on observations and comments on OLED. That little Sony OLED 11incher was a gem and really demonstrated the potential this technology offers. I can't imagine they sold many of them at $2500 a wack.

My to-do list includes going to a CES, but military operations and family obligations don't currently allow it. Maybe next year. I'd certainly enjoy a sit-down over a beer to discuss TV technology evolution and your many experiences. If you ever get to D.C. we might do that.


Longtime readers likely want to hear your assessment of new video technologies after your CES visit. I'm always interested in how they compare with our Elites.

I agree it's hard to beat those big hulking rear projection CRTs for superior contrast ratio and natural picture quality. I chuckle at how much computer magic and circuitry wizardry goes into LCD/LED and Plasma technology to approach CRT quality. I once managed a military ops center where three monster front CRT projectors (at $25,000+ each) emitted eye-searing amounts of light energy onto huge screens 40 feet away. I often wondered if the ops center wasn't built around those CRT projectors. Took a fulltime tech to keep them aligned and working. We now do it with technologies only dreamed of then.

Hopefully this will be the year of consumer available OLED displays. Until then Pioneer Elites Rule!

Kind Regards

Was that 3 projectors per screen, and if so how big was each screen? And how many were there?

I would love to have been the guy maintaining them on a constant basis. A super fun job with amazing perks!

B
Edited by Mr Bob - 1/5/13 at 12:18pm

Mr Bob,

These early 1990s ops center projectors composed one front projector per screen, with three big screens spanning a fifty foot wide wall in a large underground cavernous facility. Each projector hung from the ceiling facing its screen. These may have been big Barco or GE professional projectors, can't quite remember, but they were "big gun" 3-tubes, with red/green/blue lenses. I do know GE had the contract to provide a fulltime technician. Believe me, it was a fulltime job keeping these monsters focused, connected, and operating. This was also a time when computers were first being connected into these for planning, managing and monitoring our wars. You may have heard or read that we plan/manage/monitor war via PowerPoint Slides...very true. These projectors were essential for that purpose. Changing from normal NTSC/PAL video to computer video and keeping it all synced and in focus gave our tech some sleepness nights.

Technician was a twentysomething, highly skilled engineering specialist, who knew more about these devices than anyone. He considered them members of his family and probably treated them better. When these cranked up at full output it sometimes seemed the lights would dim in the command cab. They operated 16+ hours a day for long periods so you can imagine the labor involved keeping them at 100% operational capacity. Needless to say the technician and I became very close associates. Apart from needing a very large parts bin, his main headaches involved convergence, keeping these things focused, and managing all the different device input signals folks tended drop on him at the last minute.

Now that I think of it, I recall signing a government contract to buy three of these for $50,000+ each. Don't even ask what we paid GE for the maintenance contract. Our technician did get some great benefits along with an amazing daily job. Took three months to get him security clearances to work in the facility.

My apology for deviating from the theme of this thread. I really believe this experience and our technician's advice led me to consumer CRT projection TV and eventually to Pioneer Elites.

Regards,

Dave
Edited by djones18 - 1/3/13 at 12:59pm

Dave -

Nothing could be more appropo. Please share this also over at the Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV! thread. It would be even more appropo there!



b

Wonderful observations! May I quote you?

b

Going to hijack this thread for a quick public service announcement: is anyone in the Seattle, WA area interested in a free Pro-630HD in good working condition? Mine needs to go ASAP to accommodate some new furniture. Email jmiles (at) pop.net to set up a time, preferably next week.

Specifics on the condition: cosmetically 9/10 with only minor scratches here and there. CRTs are in good shape but the optics will definitely benefit from cleaning, as suggested by Mr Bob and others. No known electrical problems. CRT driver boards were replaced by Pioneer several years ago to address a common complaint with intermittent colored streaks, and operation has been perfect since then.

Apologies for the interruption, we now return you to the regularly scheduled thread.

(Edit: sorry, meant to post this in the 'Don't dump your RPTV' thread. Will copy it there, apologies for the dupe.)

Here's what I put over at that other thread just now:


Oh you mean the one where Pioneer lost the class action suit and had to replace huge numbers of CRT socket boards for you owners? Oh yeah. My only regret there is that they finally disco'd doing so when the settlement dates expired and went back to making owners pay for the replacements themselves. What a crock! And what they have done to you owners over this PS board resoldering business on the entire PRO 510, PRO 610 and PRO 710 series, and half of the PRO 520, PRO 620 and PRO 720 series. Glad I could be there to help, but Pioneer shoulda been paying me all these years, not you guys!

Hijack, hijack! Please use this thread to find a new home for your set, hope we can help. Be sure to also run this info in the For Sale section here at AVS, list it for $0. That should get some attention...!

Also be sure and pass along the co-ordinates of this thread to the new owners, so they can avail themselves of all the incredible advanced info here for CRT RPTV owners!



b

I came across an old tech information post in another forum with some useful information about IC's we use in our rear projection tv's thought I would share it;

http://www.techlore.com/forum/thread/22659/STK392-XXX-Spec-s/

I used the 180's in my 720HD but according to this the 120's might be the better solution.

Edit; Then again according to this other post I found there;

There was also mention of using the even newer STK394-250's as a direct replacement for the 110's as well, still trying to find the data sheets for the 394's.

Edit; Found one on the STK394-250 http://www.datasheet4u.net/html/S/T/K/STK394-250_Sanyo.pdf.html
Edited by Socio - 3/4/13 at 3:20pm

Wow, that's good info. Wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer reached the pinnacle and shoulda stopped but didn't. Look at HDMI on my final-gen Mit 73"! If they had stuck with DVI, the sets - and owners - that came after that would have been a lot better off. I would gladly have sprung for a silly passive DVI->HDMI adapter than have to settle for mulchy-looking HDMI on the most-advanced set of their CRT career! Woulda been a lot cheaper than having to buy an HD Fury to take care of the situation properly, which is what I had to do instead.

Can we depend on it for being completely factual?

b
Edited by Mr Bob - 3/4/13 at 3:29pm

Looking though the posts looks like a pretty good source and according to the data sheet the STK 394-250 is the same voltage and amp as the 110-180, if and when I replace my IC's again I intend to test them out.

But is the 394-250 a direct sub for the 392-110 series?

b

Still not found anything official but according to this other thread on another forum;

http://www.electronicspoint.com/projection-tv-shutdown-convergence-modules-t71164.html

Here is more data sheets on the STK-394-250

http://elcodis.com/parts/5996793/STK394-250.html

Edit; still can't find anything official on what IC's the STK395-250 replace, I will eventually test them but should be labeled use at your own risk for now.
Edited by Socio - 3/4/13 at 5:05pm

Lots of things have to coincide. Some ICs are 2 channel, some are 3, some are all 6 in the same package. The leg pinouts have to be exactly the same, the number of legs as well.

Let us know what you find out.

b

The STK392-180's, STK394-160's and STK394-250's are all 18 pin so they are the same in that aspect, I still can't find a data sheet on the 160 but did compare the STK392-110 to the STK394-250s. Looks like the STK394-250 only differs from the STK392-110 in that it has a mute circuit, not sure what that does or would effect, if anything.

Found some more useful information on a DIY website about this subject;

Projection

I have been having a nagging problem with horizontal blue convergence that seems to be stuck in one spot, if I move it via static left or right it warps, if I try to change the size it warps, even using the normal ( not factory) convergence and try to move the blue in that spot it warps leaving a noticeable blue area in the image.

So not this weekend but next weekend I am going to try switching to the STK394-160's to see if they work and if the stuck blue problem is solved, if they don't work I will just drop new 180s back in it.

Need some help on a Pro510HD. Turned it on tonight to play some Xbox and all I got was white with red, blue and green bars on the side. I have attached a photo if my description is poor I'm guessing the guns are bad? I've had some flickering of the screen for the last year with muted colors. I thought it was the Xbox because I repaired it from a RROD and bought a cheap AV cable. Now I'm wondering if it was the TV going out.

Anyways, if anyone has any thoughts on if it's reparable I would greatly appreciate it. I don't have the cash right now to get a new TV, but I'm pretty handy so should be able to fix it if I have an idea of where to start and can source parts.

Thanks for looking!

Sounds like a conversion IC chip went bad, you will need replace them with STK392-180 IC chips, it will require a bit of soldering, you should PM Mr Bob about this.

Whenever you have a stuck section in your convergence, I have always found that replacing the convergence ICs does the trick. I would never blindly trust generic info to see if something subs straight across or not. I would always ask someone in the know - the guys on the phones at Andrews Electronics or MCM etc. - what the industry standard crosses are for any electronic components you may need to sub in for originals.

That's what repair techs do.

The 364-160s are more expensive than the 180s, which leads most owners to want to stick with less expensive chips.

Recent info here seems to indicate that the 392-120s are stronger than the 392-180s, so they are back on my radar.

Replace those ICs if they are the originals, and your problem should be solved.

b

The intermittent problems were warning shots across the bow, which evidently you did not heed. Sets in such condition should be shut down until fixed properly.

However you seem to have been given a reprieve. You've dodged a bullet because the set still turns on and stays on. It's not going into protection yet. It will. After it does that it's more expensive to repair, tho with this set chances are it can still be saved economically.

HEED THE WARNING! Since your set is still operating without shutting off, you're in better shape than if it was shutting down 2 seconds after turnon every time. Which will happen eventually, trust me on that. STOP USING IT! Things will only get worse till something takes your set down, and hard. I have seen these sets totalled because of not heeding the warning signs.

Call me. You can find lots of info on this thread or you can just call me and get it from the horse's mouth. Will take about 2 minutes to bring you up to speed.

b

GOOD MORNING EVERYONE.

I have a Pioneer Elite PRO-510HD Projection TV HDTV with SH-D09 Tuner for sale on the AVS forum or on Craigslist.http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/ele/3715538112.html

The power supply board has been replaced. The TV has been awesome since the PS board replacement. I spent over $6000 for this. It is a steal for $100. The tuner was over $1000.

I am in Massachusetts. Please come and get it!