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How to record via IEEE 1394 (Firewire) to Windows XP - Page 198

post #5911 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by turturici View Post

TNO821
Thanks for all your work. I'm having a little issue that I was hoping you might lend some advice to. I have downloaded and installed your latest STB Firewire Capture Package. I'm running Windows XP Home SP3 Build 2600. A little background first: I used your Capture Package software on my Motorola STB from Comcast for a few years without a problem. However, I switched to FiOS and now have a Cisco 435HDC. I just can't seem to get it to work. I have the same problem everyone else has:
Error 80070057: Cannot start capture.
I was hoping your latest V4 would work, but no dice.
So I tried using another capture program (Sony Vegas, Microsoft Movie maker), and I get a system error and the PC reboots. It seems like I'm actually going as far as interfacing with the Firewire device, but the system doesn't like the driver. Does that make sense? Any ideas?
Thanks for all your help.
Dean
(Wish I still had a Motorola) frown.gif

Yeah, I've had the same issue with Cisco units. I believe they have a firmware bug that is causing it. When I added the 435 to the driver .inf I was working off of info provided by another forum member (thus I couldn't actually test it...they provided me with the hardware ID seen in Device Manager, and the rest is simply formatting the .inf properly). I don't have access to any Cisco units, but when I visit family (thousands of miles away, so this only happens a few times a year) my parents have a Cisco unit...I have only been able to capture a few frames of television before it crashes with that error. I really think Cisco has horribly broken the FireWire on those units.

You should contact your provider and complain. Twice. Let them know that it is a violation of federal law for them to fail to provide you with working FireWire. The law currently states that cable companies are no longer required to only purchase cable boxes that have FireWire, however, if a customer requests one, the company must provide a unit with working FireWire. What I am uncertain of is if that rule applies equally to both traditional cable companies and FIOS.

The FireWire trade association recommends contacting your provider at least twice before filing a formal complaint with the FCC.

Here's an excerpt from my Win7 Legacy FireWire documentation (part of the .MSI driver package) that talks about the FireWire requirement:

FireWire (also known as IEEE 1394, i.LINK, and Lynx) is required to be available and functional on all cable boxes purchased by cable companies from July 2005 – Nov 2010. As of Nov 2010, cable companies are still required to provide a cable box with a functional FireWire port upon customer request, but they are also free to source cable boxes that do not include a FireWire port. If the FireWire port of your cable box is not functional, visit the following website for specific instructions on how to complain to the FCC. http://www.1394ta.org/consumers/FCC_complaint.html
As of July, 2011, HD cable set-top boxes must include an interface capable of delivering recordable high-definition video and closed captioning data in an industry standard format. As of Dec, 2012, HD cable set-top boxes must comply with an open industry standard that provides for service discovery, video transport, and remote control command pass-through for home networking.
FireWire allows for the transfer of HD (and SD) television to devices such as DVHS VCR’s and computers (either Windows PC’s or Macs…but not Linux or UNIX). While both 32-bit and 64-bit Macs can connect to cable boxes, Windows PC’s are limited to the 32-bit releases; the required Windows drivers that would communicate from the cable box to the PC unfortunately do not (and will not) exist for 64-bit Windows.
With Windows 7, Microsoft made changes to the FireWire driver which make it incompatible with CapDVHS (the utility used to capture television from cable boxes) and the Cable box “FireSTB” drivers (Note: Windows XP, Windows Vista and Windows 8 have better FireWire support that does not require the following workaround.) In order to work around this, you need to have Windows 7 switch to its “Legacy” FireWire driver.


(BTW, It is likely that the cable companies have been granted an extension beyond the December 2012 deadline mentioned above)

Something else I should mention: You should seriously consider reloading your Windows system. All sorts of problems can be caused by filter drivers (ex: Apple iTunes installs a USB filter driver that detects when you plug you iDevice in, VMware Workstation installs a filter driver in order to emulate USB in virtual machines, etc.) I have had frequent situations when a fresh install was able to cure issues related to FireWire capturing. Also: not all Windows FireWire implementations are equal. I currently am looking into an issue where one of my laptops can not perform FireWire captures using Windows Server 2008. That same laptop captures flawlessly with XP SP3, Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8, therefore I know that the laptop's FireWire port is functioning perfectly fine and my cable box's FireWire port is fine. But I can not get it to capture using Windows Server 2008. I can then take that very same laptop hard drive, hook it to another PC (not a laptop) and after booting up and giving it 5 minutes to figure all of its drivers out (being that it has just been transplanted from an Intel Core 2 laptop to an Intel Pentium 4 PC and there are gobs of hardware differences to account for) it is able to flawlessly capture via FireWire. Both FireWire implementations are Texas Instruments, but I highly doubt that they are the same model. So that proves that Windows Server 2008 is not incapable of FireWire captures...it's just suckier than the other operating systems in my one case; There must be some sort of incompatibility between the FireWire implementation in Windows Server 2008 and my one laptop's FireWire port.

You may want to search the Internet for a vendor-provided FireWire driver instead of relying on Microsoft's built-in FireWire driver (yeah, this idea is a real long shot.)
Also, I want to reiterate that Windows 8 has a much better FireWire driver than Windows 7!
Edited by TNO821 - 11/1/12 at 8:19pm
post #5912 of 6013
TNO821:
Thanks for the prompt reply. I've had the toughest time with Verizon. I've asked to switch to a Motorola STB and they say they can't do it. I know it's BS, but I'm kind of at their mercy.
I have a decent Dell XPS 400 that was given to me. I've been toying with it using it as a home server (Win Server 2008) just for the heck of it. Maybe I'll slap the Firewire card in, throw Win 7 32 bit on there and see if a fresh install yields better results. After that, I'll punt. I'm just kicking myself for switching to Verizon. I never had an issue with my Comcast Motorola 6412. (Weeps in to hands). I'll let you know how I make out.

Dean
post #5913 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by turturici View Post

TNO821:
Thanks for the prompt reply. I've had the toughest time with Verizon. I've asked to switch to a Motorola STB and they say they can't do it. I know it's BS, but I'm kind of at their mercy.
I have a decent Dell XPS 400 that was given to me. I've been toying with it using it as a home server (Win Server 2008) just for the heck of it. Maybe I'll slap the Firewire card in, throw Win 7 32 bit on there and see if a fresh install yields better results. After that, I'll punt. I'm just kicking myself for switching to Verizon. I never had an issue with my Comcast Motorola 6412. (Weeps in to hands). I'll let you know how I make out.
Dean

Well to be fair to Verizon it would be very very hard to change their network to work with Motorola units. Could it be done? Sure, no doubt, but that would be like switching out your car engine for a diesel engine (it's going to require a TON of work and, when finished, you need to fill it up with different data.) You should give them a call and mention that the FCC requires them to provide working FireWire upon request. That FireWire trade association website linked to in my previous post states the following: Make sure you mention that this is a violation of FCC rulings covered in "CS Docket 97-80" and that a working 1394 port is required by section 47 C.F.R. 76.640(b)(4)
The terms "CS Docket 97-80" and "section 47 C.F.R. 76.640(b)(4)" are important since this lets the FCC know more precisely which of their rulings are being violated by the cable companies.


Also, if you are going to reinstall, you should give Windows 8 a try. Its FireWire support is just better (though this won't help if the problem is horribly broken firmware on the Cisco DVR).
You can download a free 90-day evaluation edition of 32-bit Windows 8 Enterprise here. This is a direct download link that does not require any sort of registration. This download is a DVD .iso file that will install a pre-activated copy of Windows 8 Enterprise which will be good for 90 days. It is official and you can see the URL is straight from Microsoft. The nice thing about this is that you don't have to sign up for anything. The way MS typically wants you to do this requires you to create a Microsoft Account, which is free but it's one more garbage account to manage.
Thankfully MS always has direct download links that they provide to some people so as not to annoy them with that crap smile.gif
Simply burn the .iso file to a DVD and use it to install. If the FireWire capture still gives the same result, it's almost certain that the Cisco firmware is to blame.
Edited by TNO821 - 11/2/12 at 1:08pm
post #5914 of 6013
TNO821:
I went ahead and installed Windows 8 on my machine and I'm in the same spot. First, Windows couldn't find a driver for my firewire card. Oddly enough, I went ahead and plugged in the DVR to the firewire port and it recognized the STB. However, I had to install the firestb.inf drivers because Windows couldn't find any drivers for the STB either. Once I installed the firestb.inf drivers, I tried CapDVHS. I get the same result as with my XP machine: cannot start capture error. Questions:
How could Windows recognize the STB and install drivers if the firewire card itself isn't installed properly with drivers?
This card worked fine with my Moto box, so I'm leaning more towards the STB. However, when entering the diagnostic menu, it says that the 1394 port is enabled. ????

Weird.
post #5915 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by turturici View Post

TNO821:
I went ahead and installed Windows 8 on my machine and I'm in the same spot. First, Windows couldn't find a driver for my firewire card. Oddly enough, I went ahead and plugged in the DVR to the firewire port and it recognized the STB. However, I had to install the firestb.inf drivers because Windows couldn't find any drivers for the STB either. Once I installed the firestb.inf drivers, I tried CapDVHS. I get the same result as with my XP machine: cannot start capture error. Questions:
How could Windows recognize the STB and install drivers if the firewire card itself isn't installed properly with drivers?
This card worked fine with my Moto box, so I'm leaning more towards the STB. However, when entering the diagnostic menu, it says that the 1394 port is enabled. ????
Weird.

Huh, that surprises me. Maybe your FireWire is a bit more non-standard than mine. Windows 8 just automatically installs its own driver for my Texas Instruments FireWire (on 2 different machines with 2 different TI FireWire controllers.)
I would try and determine the exact model number of your FireWire controller and see if the vendor has drivers that could be used instead of Windows.

That is really strange that Windows could notice that you plugged in the STB...that tells me that the FireWire is working.

I'm not surprised that your Cisco DVR says that the 1394 port is enabled. It would be a blatant violation of federal law for it to be disabled. The (most likely) problem is that the firmware code that controls the port is just plain broken. That's what is wrong with the newer Motorola DVR's (the DCX models).
post #5916 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by turturici View Post

However, I switched to FiOS and now have a Cisco 435HDC. I just can't seem to get it to work. frown.gif

I mad the same switch and was one of the first to get the new cisco box. Could never get it working w/ fire wire, so I gave up and built my own DVR using a CableCard tuner and Windows Media Center. Much easier if you want to archive things, though they have started flagging their premium channels as "copy never".
post #5917 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDLIVE View Post

I mad the same switch and was one of the first to get the new cisco box. Could never get it working w/ fire wire, so I gave up and built my own DVR using a CableCard tuner and Windows Media Center

Thanks for the info!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDLIVE View Post

though they have started flagging their premium channels as "copy never"
Yeah, they have to do that now. The companies that own the premium networks won't allow them to carry those channels without flagging them as Copy Never. The same is true for the premium channel On-Demand content. In fact HBO yanked their On-Demand content from one of the cable companies (maybe Cox?) for a period of time because various protections were not properly in place (I think it was HDCP in that case.)
post #5918 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNO821 View Post

Thanks for the info!
Yeah, they have to do that now. The companies that own the premium networks won't allow them to carry those channels without flagging them as Copy Never. The same is true for the premium channel On-Demand content. In fact HBO yanked their On-Demand content from one of the cable companies (maybe Cox?) for a period of time because various protections were not properly in place (I think it was HDCP in that case.)
FIOS users, consider yourself lucky that it's only premiums channels which are marked "copy-once".

In contrast, TWC/LA (and probably nationally) marks ESSENTIALLY ALL NON-OTA CABLE CHANNELS AS COPY-ONCE!

In other words, not just premium channels like HBOHD and SHOHD, but EVERY OTHER NON-PREMIUM CHANNEL (e.g. standard "tier channels" like FXHD, AMCHD, NGCHD, EHD, CCHD, etc.) is also marked copy-once. Virtually no cable-only channels delivered by TWC/LA are copy-freely.

I replaced by TWC/LA DVR's with a Ceton/Hauppauge cable/OTA WMC-enabled HTPC back in December 2011, and at that time lost the ability to make my own 100% perfect digital "TS/MPEG-2 transcriptions" (to PC or DVHS) of HDTV programs for anything except the copy-freely OTA HDTV I receive through my Hauppauge HVR-2250 ATSC dual-tuner card.

Yes, the quality and convenience of the "clips" produced using VideoReDo drectly from the copy-freely WTV recordings made by WMC (and thus already on hard drive of the PC) is quantum-leaps easier and superior to what I used to have to do when digital firewire offloading from DVR to DVHS (for both copy-freely as well as copy-once), or from DVHS to PC (strictly for copy-freely, to make a PC version of something now on DVHS).

But unfortunately, the set of possible WTV recordings I can even do this from is limited strictly to OTA "commercial" network television programming.

NOTE: I watch/record OTA channels through my HVR-2250 (via roof antenna) rather than through those same channels provided via TWC/LA (where they are also copy-freely, as required by law). I do this because TWC/LA re-compresses these channels for delivery over cable, thus impacting the image quality. If I'm going to watch/record/transcribe something (e.g. selections from the Olympics) I want it to be in best-possible "digital original" format.
post #5919 of 6013
TNO821:
My firewire card is very old (2002 vintage). It's a Vision Tek VT1394. I searched everywhere and could not find drivers for it. frown.gif
I went ahead and gave up on Windows 8 and am going to try a fresh XP Pro install.

Thanks.
post #5920 of 6013
@TNO821, thanks for the continued work on these drivers or repackaging of them at least. I used them quite a bit with my previous was a DCX 3416 if I recall the model correctly on my XP box. I've recently had that DVR replaced with a Comcast RNG200N (aka DCX3501 I think) and was hoping to be able to access it the same way. I installed latest MSI I found in these parts and it was able to detect the box but cannot get CapDVHS to start recording (80070057) so I guess it was fun while it lasted. Have not seen anyone post that they got the 3501 working but would be useful to know if anyone has so I know if I'm wasting my time or not with uninstalling and reinstalling drivers and whatnot.
post #5921 of 6013
I'm returning to this after a few years absence. When I saw that there were drivers for Windows 7, I had to try on my PC (laptop) that runs 32-bit. The package installed fine, and my ancient Sci-Atl 8300HD was detected, but I couldn't get CapDVHS to work reliably. I definitely forced the legacy drivers included in the package onto the Firewire devices, but either it crashed or I got the 80070057 error.

Then in searching this thread I saw someone using GrafCorder, and the ol' inner bell started tolling. I'd used GrafCorder and the old driver package (exDeus, I believe) on an old WinXP Pro PC with some success. So I relearned that technique and managed to dump an old recording off the 8300HD. Other tests on more recent recordings would create a file, but it would not play back.

Enter Comcast and the new requirements for copy protection.

I fear most Comcast customers will not get much joy trying to dump via Firewire. There are channels or programs that are copy freely, but premium channels are locked down tight. No surprise there. I have an HTPC running Windows Media Center, a Ceton InfiniTV 4 and a CableCARD from Comcast. The WTV files produced are basically under the same restrictions. If a converter tool can handle the file, it's a good bet that channel should be (mostly) copy free. If not, we're SOL. I suppose VLC, Total Recorder or some such could be utilized to capture the playback window, but beyond that, I don't know.

Anyway, just wanted to thank TNO821 for keeping it alive, and to report that I got it to work under Windows 7 and an old 8300HD from Comcast.

Cheers.
post #5922 of 6013
If the channel is encrypted and flagged as copy once you are SOL as no public method exists to dump the stream in the clear.
The encryption keys change every 30 seconds (I think) and nobody has the keys. The command to authenticate over firewire is well known (AVC Security) and published in the DTCP documentation, so feel free to add in decryption keys if you have them and enjoy your decrypted copy once streams from premium channels. Good luck.
post #5923 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

...
Your best plan for implementing true DVR-on-your-HTPC would be to go to Windows 7 first, to use the built-in Windows Media Center software... which is the DVR software you want to be using.
Then, you install (a) OTA ATSC TV tuner card (e.g. dual-tuner Hauppauge HVR-2250), if you have a roof antenna and want best-possible image quality, and/or (b) internal cablecard-enabled 4-tuner Ceton InfiniTV, and/or (c) external USB-based 4-tuner cablecard-enabled Ceton card, and/or (c) network-based external Silicon Dust HD HomeRun OTA ATSC 2-tuner box, and/or (d) network-based external cablecard-enabled 3-tuner Silicon Dust HD HomeRun Prime.
Then, you build your PC to have any amount of internal/external hard drive storage. Windows Media Center supports one active recording folder but any number of additional folders (on any number of drives) for the "Recorded TV library". Once created, if you're short on storage you can copy the WTV recording files from the primary recording folder to any of the other "storage folders". For example, I have a 4-tuner Ceton card for cable channels and a 2-tuner Hauppauge HVR-2250 for OTA channels in my own HTPC. I also have a 2TB internal primary hard drive for active recordings, plus a second 1TB internal drive and two 2TB external USB 3.0 drives for storage of recordings (which I made use of during the Olympics, since 20 hours/day times 3 channels added up to lots of storage required).
Then, you build out your delivery system to the HDTV's around your house, via wired ethernet connections to each location. At each of those locations you have a "media center extender", which can either be an Xbox or a Linksys DMA2100 (no longer made, but still available) or perhaps the soon-to-be-available Echo extender from Ceton. Each extender is connected via Ethernet, and has an HDMI connection to its associated HDTV. WMC running on the HTPC will deliver both copy-freely and copy-protected content to each extender/HDTV, which is independent of every other extender/HDTV, has its own remote, etc.. You record once (on the HTPC) and watch anywhere.
Windows XP is not your platform of choice, if you really want to build a home DVR system (and give back all of your cable company DVR boxes, in exchange for a single 4-tuner M-card per TV tuner unit at $2/month). Windows 7, and Windows Media Center... and all of the supported hardware options and TV-watching/recording capabilities... that's your direction.
Forget XP and firewire recording from a DVR for a single copy-freely program in real-time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

...
What really bothered me about NBC's editing and presentation approach was that they DID very often show a complete match LIVE (on the off-channels) for a less-than-glamor sport, e.g. soccer, water polo, field hockey, team handball, etc., which might go on for 1 1/2 hours. But they wouldn't show a swimming heat if it didn't have an American in it. And they'd edit down other non-glamor events (e.g. canoe/kayak, archery) to either just the finals (shown possibly in the late night 1 hour) or just that particular match with the American's (e.g. archery).
...
I'm not a gamer, so I didn't have any [xbox's] to start with.
But mostly I also wanted 100% silent/passive media extenders, not one that had a spinning hard drive and fan. I also didn't want hardly any electricity to be consumed, and the Linksys DMA2100 satisfied my goal perfectly.
The new Echo extender from Ceton is about to enter beta testing, and is rumored to possibly be available for purchase by the end of the year. So there's at least one more silent/passive option ACTUALLY NOW BEING BUILT (unlike the DMA2100) which would provide another option.
But the real primary arguments for HTPC vs. cable company DVR vs. trying to record one copy-freely program at a time from DVR to PC via firewire? (1) Windows Media Center is just far superior as DVR software than iGuide in the Motorola DVRs. (2) And you can add unlimited hard drive capacity for unlimited storage of HDTV recordings for playback.
NOTE: it should be mentioned that because of DRM agreements between Microsoft and Cablelabs, while you CAN record copy-protected cable programs to WTV files for playback by WMC thanks to the implementation of M-Card cablecards in these TV tuner products, you can only play those programs using Windows Media Center on the very same installed Windows 7 system that actually did the recording originally. You cannot play copy-protected programs on another Windows 7, or even using Windows Media Player or any other media playing/editing software on the same Windows 7 system that did the recording. You can ONLY use Windows Media Center, as that's the only software that has the ability to decrypt the WTV encryption through the cablecard.
If you reinstall Windows 7, you will have just lost all ability to play any copy-protected WTV files you might still have. It must be that very same original installed Win7 system on the SAME HARDWARE which can play back copy-protected WTV files made with that Win7 and hardware.
If you restore a system image of Win7 from say two weeks ago, you will have just lost all ability to play any copy-protected WTV files which might have been made in the past two weeks... between the date/time of that restored system image and now. You will of course be able to play back all copy-protected recordings from before the date/time of that system image, and also all newly recorded copy-protected programs going forward from now. But for the two weeks between that system image and right now... unfortunately the time-based encryption key method used prevents those particular copy-protected programs from being played. This is a very important fact that needs to be remembered, if you do find yourself needing to restore an old system image to recover from a system problem.
Also, it must be reiterated that only copy-freely programs can be played by any media player/editor program, on this same or any other PC. In other words you can share the "Recorded TV" library from one Win7 machine on your home LAN with WMC or any other player/editor program on any other Win7 machine on your home LAN. But you CANNOT do the same with copy-protected programs. These are strictly limited to playback with WMC only, and even then only on the same installed Win7 system and hardware which was used to make the original copy-protected WTV recording.
Is there a thread for this? - because I think this is the way many firewire capture people are going to end up going. I've only recently discovered how well WMC performs DVR tasks (since getting the Black Friday HDHomeRun Dual for $55) and have yet to get to the part of distributing it (via Media Extender) over our home network. I have a number of questions about how to best do that, but I certainly believe that once I get a Ceton InfiniTV or HDHomeRun Prime to take care of the CableCARD programming, our two aging Motorola 3416's will finally meet the dustbin of history.

If anyone can point me to threads, boards, forums, or blogs with active discussions on this subject, I'd really appreciate it.

As for Olympics coverage, I completely concur with how lame NBC's was at the time, but I made up for it in spades by using ffmpeg to "get" (filter for the .m3u8 stream) the full replay of any round of any event (every contest that took place is stored at NBCOlympics.com). The streams are completely commercial free and in the best 1080p quality I've ever seen (equal to any Blu-ray source). You wouldn't believe how crystal clear and compact the files for Rhythmic Gymnastics (for example) are.
post #5924 of 6013
There are threads on the InfiniTV and HDHR Prime on the HTPC forum, as well as extensive discussion on WMC.
post #5925 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDLIVE View Post

There are threads on the InfiniTV and HDHR Prime on the HTPC forum, as well as extensive discussion on WMC.
Thanks. I'll head over there and see if there's an easy way to transition the household from the set-top-box DVR paradigm (2 monthly Comcast DVRs, 2 lifetime TiVoHDs) we've been under since starting with ReplayTV.
post #5926 of 6013
Feel free to ping me with any questions, I just did that recently (FiOS) instead of Comcast, lots of options these days.
post #5927 of 6013
Huge thanks to TNO821 for the updated drivers and Vampidemic for his tips as well.

Had to go from a 6412 to a DCX3400 with comcast and was getting nowhere on my firewire capture until I hit this post,
post #5928 of 6013
Hello Everyone,

I have spent the last several hours figuring out how to get my Windows 7 PC working with the RNG110 via firewire. I am able to successfully change channels, but have been unsuccessful in capturing video via firewire.

Am I better off just asking Comcast for a different box (ie. does the RNG110 not actually have the capability to record from the firewire port anymore)?

Thanks!
post #5929 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewguy123 View Post

Huge thanks to TNO821 for the updated drivers and Vampidemic for his tips as well.
Had to go from a 6412 to a DCX3400 with comcast and was getting nowhere on my firewire capture until I hit this post,

Glad it appears to work for you. But that begs the question: are you actually successfully using a Motorola DCX 3400 and performing FireWire captures? On which cable system in what area?

Anyways, thanks for the info!
post #5930 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepreshow View Post

Hello Everyone,
I have spent the last several hours figuring out how to get my Windows 7 PC working with the RNG110 via firewire. I am able to successfully change channels, but have been unsuccessful in capturing video via firewire.
Am I better off just asking Comcast for a different box (ie. does the RNG110 not actually have the capability to record from the firewire port anymore)?
Thanks!

I'm not really familiar with the RNG110, so I'm uncertain that the FireWire driver package is set up with the Plug-n-Play hardware ID for that model. Does Window Device Manager show the cable box when you connect the FireWire cable?
post #5931 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepreshow View Post

Hello Everyone,
I have spent the last several hours figuring out how to get my Windows 7 PC working with the RNG110 via firewire. I am able to successfully change channels, but have been unsuccessful in capturing video via firewire.
Am I better off just asking Comcast for a different box (ie. does the RNG110 not actually have the capability to record from the firewire port anymore)?
Thanks!
I believe you are doomed.

I'm certain the RNG110 is simply a re-branded DCX* model, i.e. the "latest and greatest" version of the Motorola family of DVR's which once provided a functioning usable working PAIR OF FIREWIRE PORTS, but no longer do.

The original DCT* and DCH* models all used a different internal chipset and also came with what was the "industry standard" of TWO FIREWIRE PORTS. Firewire ports are 2-way, and there's no such thing as IN or OUT, but by having two firewire ports the device can be installed anywhere on the firewire network of interconnected firewire devices (which can be one linear daisy-chain, a set of multiple linear branches and chains, etc., as long as there is NO LOOP ANYWHERE). So the Motorola box could be at the end of a firewire cable system, or in the middle... didn't matter.

Most importantly, it used to work.

But when Motorola moved to the DCX* family of products, and dropped down to one single remaining firewire port, they also changed internal chipsets supporting firewire... and that was what turned out to be the kiss of death. The DCX* family of products and its twin RNG* (and Pace, and Verizon/FIOS, etc.) versions no longer have a usable firewire interface. It is BROKEN, and has been for at least 3 years ever since the first DCX* model hit the street.

And Motorola's never been able to (or willing to, or anxious to) fix it.

Sorry... the problem is not on the Windows side. The problem is in the DCX*/RNG* hardware. Firewire is broken in these models.


Now, if you can find a DCH3412 (with smaller hard drive, older technology, no "native" via HDMI, etc.) and you're willing to accept it, well that model DOES have a 100% working firewire capability.

Any DCH* model or even older DCT* model, if you can find them, WILL WORK WITH FIREWIRE TO YOUR 32-bit Windows. If you can find one, it's then your choice as to what's most important: latest technology (including reduced size, electrical use, noise, heat, "native" HDMI capability, much larger hard drive capacity, etc.) or the ability to record firewire to PC.

NOTE: even if you had a DCT*/DCH* box you will still only be able to record "copy-freely" content to your PC. You would not be able to record any "copy-protected" (aka "copy-once") content as the DVR would simply not deliver this content to the PC if the copy-once flag is on in the program data.
post #5932 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

I believe you are doomed.
I'm certain the RNG110 is simply a re-branded DCX* model, i.e. the "latest and greatest" version of the Motorola family of DVR's which once provided a functioning usable working PAIR OF FIREWIRE PORTS, but no longer do.
The original DCT* and DCH* models all used a different internal chipset and also came with what was the "industry standard" of TWO FIREWIRE PORTS. Firewire ports are 2-way, and there's no such thing as IN or OUT, but by having two firewire ports the device can be installed anywhere on the firewire network of interconnected firewire devices (which can be one linear daisy-chain, a set of multiple linear branches and chains, etc., as long as there is NO LOOP ANYWHERE). So the Motorola box could be at the end of a firewire cable system, or in the middle... didn't matter.
Most importantly, it used to work.
But when Motorola moved to the DCX* family of products, and dropped down to one single remaining firewire port, they also changed internal chipsets supporting firewire... and that was what turned out to be the kiss of death. The DCX* family of products and its twin RNG* (and Pace, and Verizon/FIOS, etc.) versions no longer have a usable firewire interface. It is BROKEN, and has been for at least 3 years ever since the first DCX* model hit the street.
And Motorola's never been able to (or willing to, or anxious to) fix it.
Sorry... the problem is not on the Windows side. The problem is in the DCX*/RNG* hardware. Firewire is broken in these models.
Now, if you can find a DCH3412 (with smaller hard drive, older technology, no "native" via HDMI, etc.) and you're willing to accept it, well that model DOES have a 100% working firewire capability.
Any DCH* model or even older DCT* model, if you can find them, WILL WORK WITH FIREWIRE TO YOUR 32-bit Windows. If you can find one, it's then your choice as to what's most important: latest technology (including reduced size, electrical use, noise, heat, "native" HDMI capability, much larger hard drive capacity, etc.) or the ability to record firewire to PC.
NOTE: even if you had a DCT*/DCH* box you will still only be able to record "copy-freely" content to your PC. You would not be able to record any "copy-protected" (aka "copy-once") content as the DVR would simply not deliver this content to the PC if the copy-once flag is on in the program data.

Thanks for the quick response guys. I actually followed this guide and was able to get both the AV/C Tuner and Panel recongnized by my Windows 7 32-bit system.: http://www.missingremote.com/guide/installing-pace-rng110-set-top-box-firewire-drivers

I also was able to FireSTB to change the channels on the RNG110, but I was unsuccessful in getting any video/audio through firewire to come through to my PC. Windows Media Center/SageTV didn't recognize that I had any TV-Tuner installed. I also was unable to get CapDVHS to even work (keeps throwing some errors/exceptions) so I am assuming it isn't recognizing the RNG110 as a tuner at all....

Thoughts?

What do most people do on here to remove the need for a Comcast DVR and stream TV throughout the home using a media center PC (HD PVR/FireWire/HomeRun/Cable Card)? I am thinking that Firewire is just a dead end at this point...
post #5933 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepreshow View Post

What do most people do on here to remove the need for a Comcast DVR and stream TV throughout the home using a media center PC (HD PVR/FireWire/HomeRun/Cable Card)? I am thinking that Firewire is just a dead end at this point...
See back just a bit in this thread, at post #5896 for the answer.
post #5934 of 6013
Hey guys, haven't been on this thread in a long time. I'm thinking of upgrading my Motorola 6416 DVR to the newer 7232 on Fios but first I need to know if I could use the same drivers or is there an updated one? The first post haven't been updated in quite some time. Thanks. smile.gif
post #5935 of 6013

With Win7-64 and Cisco 8742hdc - 4642hdc set ...

 

It there any chance I can use this Firewire method to record an ocassional recorded show from the DVR for archive. In real-time to a capture program is fine. Or, do I have to continue to capture from low-res analog composite ports to my Hauppauge 1600 internal card (analog capture)?

post #5936 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post

With Win7-64 and Cisco 8742hdc - 4642hdc set ...

It there any chance I can use this Firewire method to record an ocassional recorded show from the DVR for archive. In real-time to a capture program is fine. Or, do I have to continue to capture from low-res analog composite ports to my Hauppauge 1600 internal card (analog capture)?
With Win64 you will not be able use the firewire method.
You could dual boot into win32.
post #5937 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post

With Win7-64 and Cisco 8742hdc - 4642hdc set ...

Is there any chance I can use this Firewire method to record an ocassional recorded show from the DVR for archive. In real-time to a capture program is fine. Or, do I have to continue to capture from low-res analog composite ports to my Hauppauge 1600 internal card (analog capture)?
Zero chance with 64-bit Win7. If anything, you must be using a 32-bit WinXP or Win7 operating system because of the available firewire capture drivers.

In any case, no matter what you do you will not be able to digitally capture (i.e. 100% digitally bit-perfect result) a usable copy of anything your cable company provides to you as "copy protected", which is encrypted. This requires a cablecard in your receiving equipment to decrypt, and these are only found in cable company DVR's, Tivo boxes, and also in the Ceton tuner card for your PC and also in the external SiliconDust HD Homerun network tuner products (both of which are supported by Windows Media Center in a home HTPC setup).

The only thing you can ever legitimately make a personal 100%-perfect digital copy of (either recorded live or offloaded from the DVR to the PC via firewire) is a "copy freely" (unprotected) program. This is not encrypted, and it is 5C-marked as "copy-freely" so there is no restriction on any aspect of its use or recording.

So right away, what you can even potentially do a digital recording of is limited.

In my own opinion, from years of experience I might add (including DVHS VCR use for this offloading/archiving function, which CAN be done FOR JUST ONE GENERATION OF TAPE even for "copy-protected" content) I recommend not trying to waste any time with firewire capture. Many many problems, limitations, and "glitches". Truly not worth the effort. "The Suits" have won.

Instead, go with something like a Windows Media Center solution, which works perfectly in your 64-bit Win7 setup. You just need to add an internal TV tuner card, like the Hauppauge HVR-2250. This is a dual-tuner internal card which can be used with 100% support by Windows Media Center to record from clear-QAM (i.e. unencrypted) channels provided by your cable system. These are the "copy-freely" channels which are providing unprotected content, such as all the off-air networks you could also receive freely OTA/ATSC if you had a roof antenna. Incidentally that Hauppauge card can also receive OTA/ATSC channels, if you do have a roof antenna. And if your cable company also provides other basic cable channels as unencrypted/clear-QAM then you can record these as well.

Since these are the only channels you could every possibly record for your personal archive and be able to play back in the future, this is a 100% reliable and convenient way to do your personal archiving... within the limits of what your cable company is delivering to you as protected or unprotected.

So, you use Win7's WMC to do the recordings (it's exactly like your DVR software, only better and more reliable) to a new format named WTV. This is actually a special "wrapper" format (like MPG) that supports "copy protection" requirements, but for these unprotected files is just another media file format.

Then you buy a software product named VideoReDo TV Suite v4, which will allow you to edit these unprotected WTV files and produce clips that you can then archive into your own private collection.

This is a 100% reliable, convenient, and user-friendly method of doing what you want... without having to worry about real-time recording constraints or unreliable firewire glitches or issues. And it deals with the reality that no matter what we all want to do, "The Suits" have won and you will not be able to create your own 100% digitally perfect clips from "copy-protected" content ever again.


That's my recommendation. Split your coax and send one side to the DVR for normal DVR use and recording/playback of copy-protected content. Send the other side of the coax split to the Hauppauge TV tuner card in your PC, if you want to use WMC as a second DVR for copy-freely content that you eventually want to edit/save for your personal archives.

Obviously the subject of WMC also includes "playback", but that's a whole 'nother discussion. But you are asking about recording only, for your personal collection.
post #5938 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post


The only thing you can ever legitimately make a personal 100%-perfect digital copy of (either recorded live or offloaded from the DVR to the PC via firewire) is a "copy freely" (unprotected) program. This is not encrypted, and it is 5C-marked as "copy-freely" so there is no restriction on any aspect of its use or recording.

Thanks for the detailed response. I have saved it for later.

 

However, right now, we are quite pleased with our TWC supplied Whole House DVR solution. I understand what you are saying about WMC7 (and it could be a parallel system), but this content is already been recorded on TWC boxes.

 

I use Win7-XBMC in those same rooms to watch ripped movies, music, and lots of other "online" stuff. Also some gaming. I just need a way to capture an occasional show ... You know, the ole Send-to-VCR operation. This Firewire thing you guys do has always intrigued me. I guess I'll stick to my analog captures.

post #5939 of 6013
My Motorola DCH-3416 has recently received a firmware update from Comcast (in the south San Francisco Bay area) and I appear to no longer be suffering from glitchy FireWire captures.

I have been doing heavy amounts of FireWire captures for the last 8 days without a single instance of FireWire glitching (and I have NOT been performing my "ritual" of changing both tuners to SD channels and placing the DVR into standby for ~30 seconds before beginning a capture). It has been, I believe, at least a couple of years since I've seen such effortless glitch-free captures. The only difference is a firmware update that I noticed last Thursday (May 23, 2013). I do not know when the firmware update was applied, as I've been doing a lot of international travel recently and hadn't really done any FireWire captures for several weeks prior to May 23. So for all I know this has been out there for more than a month and I'm just late to the party.

My new firmware\software version details for the Motorola DCH-3416 on Comcast are as follows.
Firmware: 16.90 (what the hell?? That number is smaller than the old version, which was 18.77. Very odd)
S/W Ver: 80.48 - a30.1210.r-27 (at least this number is going in the expected direction)
Model: ASTB-0x02c0 (This used to say DCT on the old version...maybe it's a new architecture and explains why the firmware version numbering is lower)
IR Blast: Yes (this used to be set to No on the old version)

My old firmware\software version details from a few months back were as follows.
Firmware: 18.77
S/W Ver: 78.53 - A28p0-4.1005.r-8
Model: DCT
IR Blast: No


Anyways, just thought I'd share that and let everyone know that FireWire captures may now be significantly less frustrating than they used to be, as long as this type of firmware/software update is more widespread than just Silicon Valley.
post #5940 of 6013
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNO821 View Post

My Motorola DCH-3416 has recently received a firmware update from Comcast (in the south San Francisco Bay area) and I appear to no longer be suffering from glitchy FireWire captures.

My new firmware\software version details for the Motorola DCH-3416 on Comcast are as follows.
Firmware: 16.90 (what the hell?? That number is smaller than the old version, which was 18.77. Very odd)
S/W Ver: 80.48 - a30.1210.r-27 (at least this number is going in the expected direction)
Model: ASTB-0x02c0 (This used to say DCT on the old version...maybe it's a new architecture and explains why the firmware version numbering is lower)
IR Blast: Yes (this used to be set to No on the old version)

My old firmware\software version details from a few months back were as follows.
Firmware: 18.77
S/W Ver: 78.53 - A28p0-4.1005.r-8
Model: DCT
IR Blast: No
Fascinating. Haven't had a real DVR from TWC/LA for several years now, having migrated to a Ceton/Hauppauge-based HTPC and Linksys DMA2100 extenders around my house quite a while ago. But I still follow this thread, because (as you know) for many years I did do offloading via firewire to my JVC DVHS VCR's from the many generations of Motorola DVR's delivered since 2004 by Comcast (originally) and then TWC here in the LA area.

But as I recall, the DCH3416 and all previous versions of Motorola boxes NEVER had a problem with firewire recording. That was specifically why I retained my DCH3416 even when the first DCX34* models came out. As I'm sure you remember, my early discoveries of firewire offloading "glitchy/unusable" failures with the newest DCX34* generation of equipment (which had changed to 1-port from 2-ports as they'd always been, and changed internal chipset vendor and corresponding firmware which was probably the real culprit) were reported on this thread and the other related Motorola DCX thread way way back when.

So to be honest, I'm puzzled. Why would Comcast still be pushing out software/firmware upgrades to the DCH equipment (which is no longer made), when the DCX equipment (including -M multi-room variants) is the current generation? Perhaps it is the software change which I expect also came with a brand new Guide... yes? Maybe that software change also required a new underlying firmware platform.

But again, I'm surprised you ever had any firewire recording problems with DCH boxes? It was always flawless (or essentially 99.999% flawless) for me when I had my DCH3416 and JVC DVHS VCR until finally giving it back to TWC and reverting to using VideoReDo on my HTPC to produce "truly flawless" edited MPG clips from copy-freely WTV recordings on the HTPC made by Windows Media Center, eliminating the whole firewire issue entirely. The only firewire problems I ever had were from DCX* equipment, and to the best of my knowledge these issues have NEVER EVER been corrected by Motorola (or Google, who now owns Motorola Mobility I believe)... so that firewire recording with new Motorola equipment is effectively no longer possible.

Unless Motorola has also "fixed" their DCX boxes with firmware/software upgrades like you say Comcast pushed out to your DCH3416 so that perhaps reliable firewire offloading from DCX boxes may now actually be possible, I would speculate that it's still impossible to do from a DCX box.

But DCH3416? That ALWAYS worked! Not for you??
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