or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › Anyone want to speculate on Alans appetizer???
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Anyone want to speculate on Alans appetizer??? - Page 3  

post #61 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken H
You don't know much about Alan's track record, do you?
Seeing is believing Ken. Alan has been wrong before, so he isn't infallible. No where in his post did he say he has personally tested this thing, whatever it is. It seems to me that you know more about this than the rest of us. That's fine with me. But forgive me if I remain a skeptic until this solution is available and in the hands of users.

I'm taking Alan's statement as an opinion (regarding how well this yet to be available recording solution works) and not a statement of fact. The facts will come out when users have it and start reporting their success and failure stories. Then we will know for sure.

--Jerome
post #62 of 127
The likely result of the teaser until we find out what it is and whether or not it works for our needs, is 169time won't make many sales. Hopefully 169time will take the available time to upgrade its product. A big company solution for DirecTV digital HDTV archiving isn't on the horizon so I hope this one is a real winner.

Chris
post #63 of 127
Thread Starter 
Guys, this thread was meant to speculate on what the recording device may be, not a "bash Alan" thread. Lets get back on topic.
post #64 of 127
Boy, you guys need to lighten up and have more fun. I participate in these forums to

1. have fun
2. learn about leading edge stuff
3. help and get help.

I appreciate Alan providing info on 'perhaps to be' products. it is fun and it is leading edge. If some ideas do not materialize, then that is just the price of staying on the leading edge.

Now back to the fun. I think it is some type of hack to a Dish/DTV receiver whereby the data bus is fed into a USB2.0 device and then on to a PC. I also still think there might be a Skyseeker connection here....
post #65 of 127
Betamax-HD?
post #66 of 127
I'm actually quite intrigued to hear what this turns out to be, since I can't imagine anything that could simultaneously satisfy all the capabilities and constraints indicated. Alan's got me holding my breath in anticipation.

You hear that, Alan? I'm turning blue! Spill the beans. :D

- Tim
post #67 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken H
Your memory needs work.
I thought of several clever retorts to that on the way home from work, but now I can't remember any of them...
post #68 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by VideoGrabber
I'm actually quite intrigued to hear what this turns out to be, since I can't imagine anything that could simultaneously satisfy all the capabilities and constraints indicated. Alan's got me holding my breath in anticipation.

You hear that, Alan? I'm turning blue! Spill the beans. :D

- Tim
Serious onset of O2 deprivation... I can see a bright light at the end of the... Okay, I should stop looking at my DLP bulb and take a breath.

Will we find out by end of June?
post #69 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by jsaliga
Seeing is believing Ken....
Like I said, we shall see.
post #70 of 127
Alan added this earlier this evening:

Quote:
edit: The new solution is targeted as a replacement for the 5000+HDmod in terms of the quality and compatiblity of it's recordings. The soultion is PC based and will initially support dish 6000 and direcTV DTC100/E86/HD-5. There are no plans to support the 811/ HDtivo/Voom at this time. Availablity is tenativly scheduled for the end of August...
Much more info now though still lacking how we're going to be able to archive w/o firewire.
post #71 of 127
August??? The thread should make for a fun summer. Anyone taking bets
on how long it will take to lock the thread? 8o

I'm now wondering how long i should hold on to my 6000. Hopefully it will
be worth 1K by the time aug rolles around.
post #72 of 127
Based on the new notes, it sounds to me like perhaps it is a near-direct alternative to the 169time HDVR/AVX-1 products. The 'supported receiver' list is mostly the same ones. Maybe 'someone' has reverse-engineered the 169time products (or 'side-by-side engineered') and has come up with 'a better way' to do a similar job. "Standing on the shoulders of giants", you know?

This list of receivers (basically, all of the Dish and DirecTV HD receivers designed/released up through the end of 2001, or something similar) may be the only ones that have processing hardware non-integrated enough to get access to the HD data streams in a useful or practical way. For all the 'black magic' the 169time HDVR device seems to do, it must be essentially just a data encoder similar to what a 'do-it-yourself' SDI mod is for SD devices (but obviously custom-designed from the ground up as opposed to SDI which is nearly 'off-the-shelf' as far as I can tell), so I would not be surprised after this much time if someone else has made another device to extract HD signals.

Maybe this is an "HD-SDI over USB 2.0" device, or something analagous to that. With such a signal, or even a "unique HD data signal over USB 2.0", perhaps it would be actually easier to 'fix' the signal and turn it into a TS data stream (or similar) for the PCI bus via internal software than to accomplish what the AVX-1 does. At this point, maybe you can 'simply' use any of numerous existing programs (or hardware/software combinations like HiPix/MyHD, etc.) to use the data stream as you would 'any other' HD data stream or set of files.

Thanks, Alan, for the 'heads-up' hints-I will keep my DTC-100 after all...
post #73 of 127
Ok, here is another speculation, but not in how it's going to work, rather who is the company behind it.

I say it's the folks at 169Time.

They know the dtc100 and other supported dbs receivers just as well as anyone else, if not better. Seeing how there hasn't been a major update with the 169Time solution, maybe they've been working on this solution and are just going to start a 'new' company to distribute the product/mod/upgrade.

Just a thought.
post #74 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by taz291819
Ok, here is another speculation, but not in how it's going to work, rather who is the company behind it.

I say it's the folks at 169Time.

They know the dtc100 and other supported dbs receivers just as well as anyone else, if not better. Seeing how there hasn't been a major update with the 169Time solution, maybe they've been working on this solution and are just going to start a 'new' company to distribute the product/mod/upgrade.

Just a thought.
I take it more as a new company "This will be the first of many offerings from the soon to be announced company".

I'm pretty confident it is the DVB-SPI device that skyseeker (which is a new company with nothing more than a skeleton website right now) will be coming out with. USB interface to the pc. Saw a picture of it a while back (somewhere here on avs) but it was removed very quickly at their request.
post #75 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by h2ofun
My comments were not to pick on Alan. Over the years watching this forum I just can not believe how many future products will solve all our issues, and basically everyone of them never made it. It just gets fun seeing how much energy some folks put into knowing the future, rather than enjoying the present with something one can really do.

Dave
"Smoke and Mirrors" ???

Alan as well as I have been trying to make the 169Time a good solution for archiving to DVHS however it is no good in it's current state. The streams it produces is flawed to the point that they will NEVER playback using any other decoder except the JVC 30K.

I don't recall Alan promoting any future device that will solve all our issues. The only thing I remember is that we were promised a fix for the AVX-1 by a certain date and did't ever get it. That promise wasn't made by Alan. It's been over 2 years and the AVX-1 recorded stuff still will not playback on anything else but the JVC because of flawed transport streams it creates.

Talk about smoke and mirrors!


Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW6ATV
Maybe this is an "HD-SDI over USB 2.0" device, or something analagous to that. With such a signal, or even a "unique HD data signal over USB 2.0", perhaps it would be actually easier to 'fix' the signal and turn it into a TS data stream (or similar) for the PCI bus via internal software than to accomplish what the AVX-1 does. At this point, maybe you can 'simply' use any of numerous existing programs (or hardware/software combinations like HiPix/MyHD, etc.) to use the data stream as you would 'any other' HD data stream or set of files.


Seems logical. 1394 and USB are the only 2 "standard" interfaces that could handle the bit-rate. Once the TS is on the PC we could do anything with it like transfer it to DVHS via 1394.



Quote:
Originally posted by taz291819
Ok, here is another speculation, but not in how it's going to work, rather who is the company behind it.

I say it's the folks at 169Time.

They know the dtc100 and other supported dbs receivers just as well as anyone else, if not better. Seeing how there hasn't been a major update with the 169Time solution, maybe they've been working on this solution and are just going to start a 'new' company to distribute the product/mod/upgrade.

Just a thought.
Richard knows nothing of this new solution. I think that Richard has different priorities then working on fixing his current solution. Remember he is a one man operation and doesn't have time to sell, build, install and R&D his current bugs with the AVX-1. How can one person do all of this? Maybe when he has no more sales then he will have time to do repairs on the AVX-1. What incentive does he have to repair the AVX-1 now?

If Richard doesn't fix his solution before the new unit is released then I think it will be the end of 169Time. This would be very disappointing for Richard and anyone who owns his products. Myself included!
post #76 of 127
What about modulating the signal? Kinda like the same thing the Dish5000 with HD modulator did. Is this even possible?
post #77 of 127
Some AVS members have reported that premium content recordings from the Dish 6000 based 169time mod are somewhat more compatible for playback with other decoders (i.e., Roku, LG-3410a) than recordings from the DTC-100 mod (my current 169time receiver).

I was thinking of trying a Dish 6000 mod for that reason, but this latest announcement has put me on the sidelines. It's funny that my decision to go with E* or D* for programming is based primarily on factors that are outside the control of either company. Can you imagine trying to explain your reason for switching sat providers to a CSR?

The nice thing about this new product is that it is PC based, which is the way I prefer to record. My PC recordings from my DTC-100 based 169time mod have worked well, as long as I use the JVC 30k decoder for playback, although the operation is a kludge.

I hope that this new product is worthy of Alan's praise, but just about every HD recording device ever released has had bugs. My 2 cents.
post #78 of 127
Personally, I think E* doesn't re-encode their HD, so you get streams that are better quality, but the encoder type varies from channel to channel.

With D*, they re-encode all their HD using their own (re)encoders. So the image is a bit blurrier, but if you have a decoder that works well on one of their chans, then it works well on all of them.

(Basically, your decoder sees a datastream created by the last encoder in the chain... You don't know much about what encoders were involved in the intermediate steps).

Apparently some people have good luck using the Roku player for their 169time recordings.

(It would be kindof cool if the old Dish 5000 modulators could be hooked to an 8PSK receiver, but I doubt that will happen. Someone once said something about the "firmware" in the 5000 receiver were required to make
the 5000/modulator work. It wasn't just as simple as "send it some data
and get ATSC output". Perhaps some of the ham guys trying to use 5000/modulators as personal broadcast stations can tell us more.)
post #79 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by stjr
Some AVS members have reported that premium content recordings from the Dish 6000 based 169time mod are somewhat more compatible for playback with other decoders (i.e., Roku, LG-3410a) than recordings from the DTC-100 mod (my current 169time receiver).
Not true. I have 2-DTC100, Dish 6000, and BEV 6000. All of them make bad transport streams. 2 PPV channels on the BEV 6000 doesn't even work without major flaws on even the JVC decoder.

Early their were claims that some were making perfect recordings only to find out later they were mistaken.
post #80 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by jrichards
Not true. I have 2-DTC100, Dish 6000, and BEV 6000. All of them make bad transport streams. 2 PPV channels on the BEV 6000 doesn't even work without major flaws on even the JVC decoder.

Early their were claims that some were making perfect recordings only to find out later they were mistaken.
Jrichards

I get glitches on my 169Time-DTC100 tapes of HBOHD (only), when I play them back on my JVC 30K through my LG 3410’s DVI output.

SHOHD, HDNet, HDNet, Movies, DiscHD tapes all play back perfectly through the LG 3410.

I recently received a tape of an HBOHD program from Jerome S. another 169Time user that was made on his 169Time-Dish 6000, and, successfully played it “glitch-free†on my JVC 30K through my LG 3410’s DVI output.

Separately, I received a report form another AVS 169Time user, Andy, with a Motorola HDD-200 (C/Ku Band) based system, stating he successfully plays HBOHD tapes “glitch-free†on his JVC 30K through his LG 3410’s component video output.

My conclusion was that the cause of the incompatibility might be the DTC100 modification which somehow differs from that of the Dish 6000 and Motorola HDD-200 (C/Ku Band), since they have no such incompatibility.

I asked Richard whether he was expecting the current 169Time DTC100 modification will perform similarly with HBOHD recordings after the next AVX1 software upgrade as to how the 169Time-Dish 6000 and Motorola HDD-200 (C/Ku Band) do now?

He responded that all will enjoy equal and improved compatibility with other decoders when the new software ships, and he did not estimate a projected ship date.
post #81 of 127
I won't make any guesses or representations about how someone else's 169time setup will behave in their environment.

What I can say is this about my 169time Dish 6000/AVX-1:

1) Tapes recorded on my JVC 30K play fine on my JVC 30K.
2) Tapes recorded on my JVC 30K play fine on my JVC 40K.
3) Tapes recorded on my JVC 30K, then restored to hard disk with D-VHStool to transport stream files play fine on my HTPC using Zoom Player and the Mediamatics HDTV transport splitter and Sonic Cinemaster Video and Audio DS decoders. However, I have not done exhaustive tests on this. I have watched as much as 40 minutes at a time and haven't had issues.
4) Tapes recorded on my JVC 30K play fine on Murray's JVC 30K using his LG 3410 as a decoder connected to his JVC 30K over firewire as reported by Murray.
5) Two tapes from a friend recorded from HDNet Movies using his DTC-100 169time setup play fine on my JVC 30K, but when restored to hard disk with D-VHStool the transport streams produce bad micro stutters every couple of seconds with any combination of HDTV demuxers and direct show filters that I have on hand. I haven't tried either of these tapes on my JVC 40K yet.

I use my JVC 30K exclusively as a recording deck and my JVC 40K exclusively as a playback deck. Every D-VHS tape I watch is played on my 40K.

I have not tried recording from the AVX-1 to my JVC 40K. I plan to get around to it some day, but I would have to pull my 30K out of the rack with the AVX-1 in it and move the 40K into that space. I know it isn't like it's a lot of work, but my free time is very scarce and the recording schedule rather heavy. I'll get to it when I get to it, and no one else's results with the 40K will keep me from at least giving it a try.

Also note the emphasis on the word my. I won't make unilateral proclamations about how any of this stuff will work in your home. When I ordered my 169time gear it was with the expectation that it would not work particularly well and that glitches would have to be something that I had to get used to. After about three months of using it I can safely say that my 169time setup has performed far, far better than I ever expected it to. But another person's mileage might be a lot different than mine.

I do have a recommendation if you get a 169time setup, make sure your AVX-1 has a Texas Instruments IEEE1394 chipset based card in it. Others work to be sure, but in my experience with 169time gear and a bevy of other 1394 devices the TI chipset produces the best results. I tend to favor the Adaptec Fireconnect 4300, and I won't use anything else.

--Jerome
post #82 of 127
I had a 169time DTC100 & AVX1. I tried the straight to PC recording setup, and the resulting shows were unplayable on all PC HD cards, as well as my Roku.

I sold it, and purchased a Dish 6000 from 169time. Along with the AVX1, I now record direct to PC (no DVHS in the chain), and the shows are playable via VLC and my Roku. Some will playback fine on MyHD/Fusion cards, but some won't.

I would gladly welcome a PC based recorder that created recordings playable on all HD PC cards. Where can I pre-order?!! :)

I was one of the first batch of Hipix orders via Digital Connection way back in the day. I still have that card, although I don't use it anymore. I received a HD-Tivo from the first batch that VE sent out. I'd sure love to get my hands on this magical solution...
post #83 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by bwolf5309
HBO/SHO are both delivered at 10-12Mbit so there is no difference E* vs D*.
DIRECTV re-encodes HBO, and probably Showtime too. The fact that DIRECTV re-encodes to almost the same bit rate is coincidental (and stupid).
post #84 of 127
Actually, if HBO/SHO do proper "repeat frame" flagging for 24fps film converts, but the D* encoders are locked for 30fps, then D* would have to encode at a *higher* datarate to achieve the same quality.

There is alway going to be generational loss even if they re-encoded it at 45Mbit/sec.
post #85 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by HDHTPC
(It would be kindof cool if the old Dish 5000 modulators could be hooked to an 8PSK receiver, but I doubt that will happen. Someone once said something about the "firmware" in the 5000 receiver were required to make
the 5000/modulator work. It wasn't just as simple as "send it some data
and get ATSC output". Perhaps some of the ham guys trying to use 5000/modulators as personal broadcast stations can tell us more.)
I am 'one of the hams', but unfortunately I have no technical details of any kind yet on how exactly the Dish HD modulator works. I did do some searching on a couple of the chips in it, and the first one is a 'programmable logic array' or similar. As far as I know, these are complex customizable chips, sort of like a PROM/EPROM/flash memory (although not reprogrammable), but on a more complex non-linear level. The possibility of figuring out what such a chip does without having the equivalent of 'source code' is probably about nil. In fact, it is not unreasonable to suppose that what the chip in the Dish modulator does is about equal to what the 169time AVX-1 does-that is, 'fix' or 'massage' a unique data stream to make it compatible with other standards (in this case, the ATSC broadcast encoding standard).

For the project I had in mind (taking NTSC video and line-level audio, and ATSC encoding/8VSB modulating them), a quite different approach is probably required from the 'recordable satellite TV' concept.
post #86 of 127
D* re-encodes everything. The source material is MPEG2, D* broadcasts DSS.
post #87 of 127
Quote:
Originally posted by HookedOnTV
D* re-encodes everything. The source material is MPEG2, D* broadcasts DSS.
When I say "re-encode", I mean that they redo the MPEG2 data.
Yes, all the DSS and sat providers "repackage" the stream
using different transport stream packet sizes and such, but I think
E* leaves the MPEG2 intact.


Quote:
Originally posted by balazer
DIRECTV re-encodes HBO, and probably Showtime too. The fact that DIRECTV re-encodes to almost the same bit rate is coincidental (and stupid).
From what I heard, the reason they do that is so that ~they~ have control
of the actual bitrate in realtime. That way they can 'stat-mux' multiple
chans onto one transponder, and their encoders can dynamically alter
the bitrate of the neigboring channels to make the total fit the capacity
of the transponder.

Even though they might re-encode a channel at a higher *average* bitrate, they can still drop it down momentarily if the others channels indicate that they need more bandwidth for a complex scene that is being encoded.

Imagine a bank of encoders running such that at any given time only one of them was working on an I frame.
post #88 of 127
I hope it is component in.

What would be nice if they just set it up from a hardware point and let software like Sage or BeyondTv use it. People are allready paying $1000+ for HD-tivo's on ebay.
post #89 of 127
D* uses a bitstream that pre-dates the MPEG-2 standard. It uses a smaller packet size. E* is pure DVB (MPEG-2) and is simply encrypted. I cannot understand why perfect recordings are not acheivable with the 169time E* modded boxes. I can, however, understand why the D* recordings might be problematic.
post #90 of 127
I have some great results from this mystery product. The developer uploaded some sample clips he recorded with this device to my FTP site, and I've played them back on MyHD 120 card glitch free. This included recordings from both Dish Network, as well as DirecTV.

There was not a single hiccup or stutter the whole way thru. This looks very very promising! So we're not dealing with "smoke and mirrors" here, there is a very real product out there, I just hope we see it sooner rather than later.

kevin
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Recorders
This thread is locked  
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › Anyone want to speculate on Alans appetizer???