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Madison, WI - HDTV - Page 54

post #1591 of 5626
Just noticed something with my setup...I have a DirecTV HR10-250, and always watch locals OTA through it (because of the Tivo, obviously). 15-2 and 47-2 have always been really pixelated and grainy. I just figured they weren't setting much bandwidth at all aside for them or something.

But last night for one reason or another I was flipping the local channels using the TV's tuner, and both of these channels looked fine.

Also, through the HR10-250, they were 4:3, and through my TV's tuner, they were widescreen (and it appeared they were supposed to be this way - widescreen?)

Any way to fix this on my HR10-250?

Thanks.
post #1592 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by aktick View Post

Just noticed something with my setup...I have a DirecTV HR10-250, and always watch locals OTA through it (because of the Tivo, obviously). 15-2 and 47-2 have always been really pixelated and grainy. I just figured they weren't setting much bandwidth at all aside for them or something.

You forgot a few: 3-2, 21-2, 21-3. I'm not sure why 15-2 is macroblocking, since it is a static radar image, with only a sweeping arm. As for the others, they will most definately macroblock because the bitrate is a lot lower than they should really have. This give the SD channels more bits would make the HD video look horrible. Just look at 21-1, it is a prime example where the TWO SD channels are killing the main HD channel.

Quote:


But last night for one reason or another I was flipping the local channels using the TV's tuner, and both of these channels looked fine.

Interesting, they shouldn't. I get the same visual crapping video via my MyHD card in the PeeCee as well as the two STB digital tuners.

Quote:


Also, through the HR10-250, they were 4:3, and through my TV's tuner, they were widescreen (and it appeared they were supposed to be this way - widescreen?)

Any way to fix this on my HR10-250?

The HR10-250 isn't broke, the TV is set wrong. None of the SD channels are widescreen, they are all 4:3. Your TV appears to be set to do horizontal stretch on 4:3 material. Check your settings.
post #1593 of 5626
Tom:

As you well know, Sony is now shipping Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune in HD, as well as the normal SD version via Pathfire.

I'm curious to know what the technical reasons are for WMTV not being able to record and play these HD feeds.

At this point in time, the two shows are fed via QPSK C-band, but will go Pathfire after the tests are done and HD can be delivered via Pathfire.
post #1594 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

I'm curious to know what the technical reasons are for WMTV not being able to record and play these HD feeds.

Not a technical reason, we haven't bought an HD recorder or server yet. Other items are higher in priority at this point in time in the ol' TV budget.

Hey, the Today Show goes HD Wednesday morning! We don't have to record that...!
post #1595 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Weeden View Post

Not a technical reason, we haven't bought an HD recorder or server yet. Other items are higher in priority at this point in time in the ol' TV budget.

Ah OK. Can I assume that the plant is then HD-SDI? I'm also going to guess that once the Pathfire HD system is ready, you'll pretty much be ready to air anything you guys buy that is sent via Pathfire that is HD.

Quote:


Hey, the Today Show goes HD Wednesday morning! We don't have to record that...!

I don't watch the Today Show, or Good Morning America or whatever the CBS early morning thing is called Don't have time. I sleep in as late as possible before I have to get out of bed and go to work

BTW, this is what I had to say about Jeopardy in HD:

http://www.tvpredictions.com/vidiotjeopardy091206.htm

I'll be doing a review of Wheel of Fortune next. I suspect that it will have all of the same issues as the other show.
post #1596 of 5626
Will the tiling and macroblocking ever go away on WISC-DT? It's just as awful on WHA-DT, aren't all these channels on the same tower? Tonight the Redskins/Cowboys game on NBC-15 DT is doing the toling and macroblocking like crazy. Enough is enough with the digital subchannels and multicasting. I am so sick of it. HD is just getting trashed these days.

Also I am receiving 119-8 on my QAM tuner thru Charter Janesville but no video at all. Maybe this will be WMSN-DT finally that Directv will have Madison HDTV locals in October????!?!?!?!?!?!?

Finally more competition for stinkin Charter.
post #1597 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehren View Post

Will the tiling and macroblocking ever go away on WISC-DT? It's just as awful on WHA-DT, aren't all these channels on the same tower? Tonight the Redskins/Cowboys game on NBC-15 DT is doing the toling and macroblocking like crazy. Enough is enough with the digital subchannels and multicasting. I am so sick of it. HD is just getting trashed these days.

Simple answer - no!

Where they are located has got absolutely nothing to do with the video quality. If you go back and find the various postings that I have done about ATSC bandwidth, including rants I've done on my website, you will find a common theme... ATSC bandwidth sucks. There just are not enough bits to provide high quality HDTV. I'm not a sports fan and could care less. That said, sports like football tax the bitrate. The rapid changes in the video require tons of bits, but they just are not there, i.e., the encoder is bit-starved. That results in what you see, macroblocking. Regular programming is not as taxing, overall. It can still happen though.

Adding SD subchannels is just plain idiotic. But you can't tell that to the broadcasters. They just see $$$ in front of their eyes. For WHA, it is a different matter. IMHO they think they are providing a service by having these extra SD channels. But in the long run, every channel is a loser.

Quote:


Also I am receiving 119-8 on my QAM tuner thru Charter Janesville but no video at all. Maybe this will be WMSN-DT finally that Directv will have Madison HDTV locals in October?

It isn't Charter's fault that WMSN-DT doesn't exist on the cable system. That blame lies squarely on the shoulders of Sinclair. They are the owners of the station and believe that every cable system needs to pay them to place the DT channel on any cable system. This applies to every station that they own and every cable system in the market where the station exists.
post #1598 of 5626
Is there anything better than ATSC bandwidth out there that the broadcasters can use? What are the bitrates of all the Madison HD stations running by the way?
post #1599 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehren View Post

Is there anything better than ATSC bandwidth out there that the broadcasters can use? What are the bitrates of all the Madison HD stations running by the way?

NO! Why? Because ATSC is the OTA standard for this country. The broadcasters can't use anything else.

Even if they could double the channel width from 6 MHz to 12 MHz, you can pretty much bet that the broadcasters would put out even MORE SD streams, causing the HD stream to still be bit starved, unless the FCC decreed that HD would have a minimum bitrate. Ya, like that would happen

Even if the standard were changed to allow 12 MHz channel width, there aren't enough channels to be had, since Congress declared that more of the UHF channels are to be stripped from the broadcast spectrum and sold off for other use.

IMHO, while the idea of DTV is great, what we have ended up with leaves a lot, and I mean a lot, to be desired.

At this point in time, I do not know the current bitrates of the various local channels, i.e., what the HD and SD streams have for an average.
post #1600 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Simple answer - no!

Where they are located has got absolutely nothing to do with the video quality. If you go back and find the various postings that I have done about ATSC bandwidth, including rants I've done on my website, you will find a common theme... ATSC bandwidth sucks. There just are not enough bits to provide high quality HDTV. I'm not a sports fan and could care less. That said, sports like football tax the bitrate. The rapid changes in the video require tons of bits, but they just are not there, i.e., the encoder is bit-starved. That results in what you see, macroblocking. Regular programming is not as taxing, overall. It can still happen though.

Adding SD subchannels is just plain idiotic. But you can't tell that to the broadcasters. They just see $$$ in front of their eyes. For WHA, it is a different matter. IMHO they think they are providing a service by having these extra SD channels. But in the long run, every channel is a loser.



It isn't Charter's fault that WMSN-DT doesn't exist on the cable system. That blame lies squarely on the shoulders of Sinclair. They are the owners of the station and believe that every cable system needs to pay them to place the DT channel on any cable system. This applies to every station that they own and every cable system in the market where the station exists.

Same for NFL Network. Sinclair simply has a marketable product, like the GB station also, which Time Warner does not carry there either. P-A-C-K-E-R-S. You say each should pay? I agree and wonder if 15 gets $$ from Charter. Tom could you share? You know. I doubt they give it ot Charter for free.
They just want more because they can get it, supple and demand. Charter does not have to buy it, which is their option. But they don't carry it becasue they do not want to meet the demand of WMSN-DT/Sinclairs' asking price. That is Charter decision, though the merits of the price level soforth is another issue.
post #1601 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madtown HD Junky View Post

Same for NFL Network. Sinclair simply has a marketable product, like the GB station also, which Time Warner does not carry there either. P-A-C-K-E-R-S. You say each should pay? I agree and wonder if 15 gets $$ from Charter. Tom could you share? You know. I doubt they give it ot Charter for free.

I bet they do give it to Charter for free. Most stations do. Sinclair owned stations are the exception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madtown HD Junky View Post

They just want more because they can get it, supple and demand. Charter does not have to buy it, which is their option. But they don't carry it becasue they do not want to meet the demand of WMSN-DT/Sinclairs' asking price. That is Charter decision, though the merits of the price level soforth is another issue.

This has been discussed before here. The situation, as I understand it, is that both parties have decided not to move from their positions. Sinclair feels that, nationwide, that cable companies should pay for certain local OTA feeds that the government doesn't yet mandate they carry and their argument is the cost per cable subscriber is minimal. I'm unaware of any other large local station owner group that has taken Sinclair's position. The cable companies argue that they traditionally never have had to pay for local OTA feeds and don't want to set that precedent now.

The subscribers get caught in the middle and get nothing while these 2 big corporations are stalemated. Each user can decide who is more to blame, if they want. Given how all the other station owners are behaving, I tend to side with Charter.

Once 2009 rolls around, under the current law if a Sinclair station digital OTA signal becomes their primary signal to replace the analog one that will go away, then I understand the cable companies will have to carry that signal, and I don't believe the cable companies will have to pay for it.
post #1602 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Even if they could double the channel width from 6 MHz to 12 MHz, you can pretty much bet that the broadcasters would put out even MORE SD streams, causing the HD stream to still be bit starved, unless the FCC decreed that HD would have a minimum bitrate. Ya, like that would happen

Even if the standard were changed to allow 12 MHz channel width, there aren't enough channels to be had, since Congress declared that more of the UHF channels are to be stripped from the broadcast spectrum and sold off for other use.

IMHO, while the idea of DTV is great, what we have ended up with leaves a lot, and I mean a lot, to be desired.

Mr. Video,

You do know, as do I, that HD has nothing to do with any FCC mandate. It is merely a bonus. The purpose of DTV is to get you sharp, clear *SD* pictures.
HD is not mandated, mentioned or otherwise put into any FCC docket. It is a "bonus" for those who wish to do it.

I know that high bitrate HD would be very nice, but broadcasters have to make money, and if they can do so with multicasting, then I'm all for it. People need to be paid, and might I remind everyone again, there is ZERO ad revenue going to stations that broadcast HD content. ZERO. There's *no* additional ad premium for HD whether the commercial or program is in HD or not. That may change in the future, but right now, DTV is making zero or nearly zero revenue for stations, and is thus losing them money, especially as the transmitters gobble up power.
Given that the entertainment money pie has been cut like Edward Scissorhands got a hold of it, subchannels of infomercials, value-added weather data, etc are a given. I don't like it, you don't like it, we all don't like it (except when they do news and/or weather), but it attempts to pay the bills for something that the FCC thrust upon broadcasters whether they like it or not (and most didn't). And you are right, 12 MHZ of bandwidth would have helped, but some stations would just do more subchannels. Given the number of analog stations, 12 MHZ would have been impossible to do without a flash-cutover.
post #1603 of 5626
Hi,

I have a DISH 411 receiver and am receiving 3-1 with a outside antenna.

3-1 drops out quite frequently and the DISH 411 indicates that it has lost
signal and is re-acquiring.

My older 811 receiver does not do this at all connected to the same OTA
antenna.

Anyone else having this happen ?
post #1604 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by arty100 View Post

Hi,

I have a DISH 411 receiver and am receiving 3-1 with a outside antenna.

3-1 drops out quite frequently and the DISH 411 indicates that it has lost
signal and is re-acquiring.

My older 811 receiver does not do this at all connected to the same OTA
antenna.

Anyone else having this happen ?


Not in DeForest Arty, what antenna you using? Is it pointed correctly?
post #1605 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by arty100 View Post

Hi,

I have a DISH 411 receiver and am receiving 3-1 with a outside antenna.

3-1 drops out quite frequently and the DISH 411 indicates that it has lost
signal and is re-acquiring.

My older 811 receiver does not do this at all connected to the same OTA
antenna.

Anyone else having this happen ?

You may want to ask this in a Dish forum, like www.dbstalk.com.
post #1606 of 5626
I am no supporter of Directv but I hope the pressure of them launching Madison HD locals gets FOX 47 DT on Charter.
post #1607 of 5626
Looks like Charter is adding 2 new HD channels in Madison!

On October 25, STARZ HD and MHD will be added to channel 790 and 799 respectively.

Maybe not my first two choices, but I'll certainly take them

WE (Women's Entertainment) and Toon Disney are being moved to Digital only to (presumable) make room.
post #1608 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by doppler1 View Post

Looks like Charter is adding 2 new HD channels in Madison!

On October 25, STARZ HD and MHD will be added to channel 790 and 799 respectively.

Maybe not my first two choices, but I'll certainly take them

WE (Women's Entertainment) and Toon Disney are being moved to Digital only to (presumable) make room.

Got a link to this announcement?

If those 2 channels are being taken off the analog tier, then I doubt if it is to 'make room' for 2 HD channels. My guess is they will be replaced with something else that are more lucrative for Charter.
post #1609 of 5626
So does Fox do OTA HD in Madison? I did a Google search and the first hit said that Fox broadcasts in HD on channel 47.1. I can't pick this up with my $30 Zenith directional antenna though, but I can pick everything else just fine.

I'm so mad at Charter for not having Fox HD (and about other things too, naturally). But c'mon... there's something wrong here when I'm in the capital of Wisonsin and I can't see Packers games in HD. Technology has failed us
post #1610 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleman View Post

So does Fox do OTA HD in Madison?

Yes. I get it somewhat reliably on the West side.
post #1611 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post

You do know, as do I, that HD has nothing to do with any FCC mandate. It is merely a bonus. The purpose of DTV is to get you sharp, clear *SD* pictures. HD is not mandated, mentioned or otherwise put into any FCC docket. It is a "bonus" for those who wish to do it.

You are quite correct. That said, there were members of Congress that raised a stink when certain networks said that they were not going to do HD. That went over like a lead balloon. If the mind changing hadn't occurred, I'm sure that bills would have been introduced in both sides of the hill that would have forced the issue.

Quote:
I know that high bitrate HD would be very nice, but broadcasters have to make money, and if they can do so with multicasting, then I'm all for it. People need to be paid, and might I remind everyone again, there is ZERO ad revenue going to stations that broadcast HD content. ZERO. There's *no* additional ad premium for HD whether the commercial or program is in HD or not. That may change in the future, but right now, DTV is making zero or nearly zero revenue for stations, and is thus losing them money, especially as the transmitters gobble up power.

Yes, at this point in time, money is being pissed out the window because of having to pay for the power of two transmitters. But it will not go on forever. Broadcasters have been living with one channel for over 50 years (in some locations). So why piss on the viewer now. Ya, I know, the landscape has changed because of all the competing channels on cable and satellite.

Quote:
Given that the entertainment money pie has been cut like Edward Scissorhands got a hold of it, subchannels of infomercials, value-added weather data, etc are a given. I don't like it, you don't like it, we all don't like it (except when they do news and/or weather), but it attempts to pay the bills for something that the FCC thrust upon broadcasters whether they like it or not (and most didn't). And you are right, 12 MHZ of bandwidth would have helped, but some stations would just do more subchannels. Given the number of analog stations, 12 MHZ would have been impossible to do without a flash-cutover.

You are quite right, I don't like it and I for one will not be watching any of the subchannels. You mention the same thing I did, i.e., that the extra bandwidth would be eaten up by more subchannels, which is where I mentioned also the bitrate limitation that could be placed on HD. With 12 MHz, I'm sure that HD would have been mandated and a minimum bitrate allocated to it. But it ain't gonna happen, ever
post #1612 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by whosbest1 View Post

Got a link to this announcement?

If those 2 channels are being taken off the analog tier, then I doubt if it is to 'make room' for 2 HD channels. My guess is they will be replaced with something else that are more lucrative for Charter.

We are both half right

Actually, one of the two analogs is being replaced...no Link, but here's a scan of the notice: Charter Madison Channels

Edit: Actually, I take it back; It doesn't appear that there is a plan to replace either analog channel with something else; Lifetime Movie Network stays at channel 36, but as a digital only.
post #1613 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleman View Post

So does Fox do OTA HD in Madison? I did a Google search and the first hit said that Fox broadcasts in HD on channel 47.1. I can't pick this up with my $30 Zenith directional antenna though, but I can pick everything else just fine.

Doesn't make any sense, because WISC, WHA and WKOW are also on the same tower. Is your $30 antenna UHF only? If the answer is yes, that is why. WMSN-DT is on channel 11. Everyone else is UHF.

Quote:
I'm so mad at Charter for not having Fox HD (and about other things too, naturally). But c'mon... there's something wrong here when I'm in the capital of Wisonsin and I can't see Packers games in HD. Technology has failed us

As much as I do not care for cable, it isn't Charter's fault. The blame goes squarely on the shoulders of Sinclair, as they, IMHO, are being greedy. If Charter were to give in and pay, the other station owners in town might also want money.

Send you letters of hate to Sinclair headquarters.
post #1614 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by doppler1 View Post

Looks like Charter is adding 2 new HD channels in Madison!

On October 25, STARZ HD and MHD will be added to channel 790 and 799 respectively.

Maybe not my first two choices, but I'll certainly take them

WE (Women's Entertainment) and Toon Disney are being moved to Digital only to (presumable) make room.

Do you know if these will be included with the basic HD package that comes with HBO and Showtime? I currently get STARZ and was hoping that I would get STARZ HD like I do with HBO and Showtime.
post #1615 of 5626
Just wondering if there was any news about OLN/Versus HD on Charter or if it was available already? I was looking at the Versus website and for NHL games they have a lot in HD. I assume these would probably be on Dish or DirectTV.
post #1616 of 5626
I don't know for sure, but I would imagine that STARZ HD would be included if you susbscribe to STARZ...
post #1617 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_o_00 View Post

Do you know if these will be included with the basic HD package that comes with HBO and Showtime? I currently get STARZ and was hoping that I would get STARZ HD like I do with HBO and Showtime.

I just got my notice in the mail. For those who want to see it, a pdf was posted, link provided above by another poster.

It says STARZ HD will be added to the HD Premiums tier, so if you subscribe to that tier, you'll get it. Given you get HBO and Showtime HD, I think you will get it.
post #1618 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by doppler1 View Post

We are both half right

Actually, one of the two analogs is being replaced...no Link, but here's a scan of the notice: Charter Madison Channels

Edit: Actually, I take it back; It doesn't appear that there is a plan to replace either analog channel with something else; Lifetime Movie Network stays at channel 36, but as a digital only.

Thanks for the link doppler1. I just got my notice in the mail yesterday.

It says nothing about what will replace what was on analog 46, and says WE will move to 308 digital and Lifetime Movie Network will be on 36 (which is analog). There is no 36 digital, so the comment about it being digital only seems incorrect to me.

I'm guessing they will put something on analog 46. Who knows, maybe they are reserving it for something in demand. NFL Network? I'm not holding my breath.
post #1619 of 5626
So how's the CW doing in HD? I'll be watching for the first time tonight (Smallville). Hopefully they've fixed the issues the old WB had?
post #1620 of 5626
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Doesn't make any sense, because WISC, WHA and WKOW are also on the same tower. Is your $30 antenna UHF only? If the answer is yes, that is why. WMSN-DT is on channel 11. Everyone else is UHF.



As much as I do not care for cable, it isn't Charter's fault. The blame goes squarely on the shoulders of Sinclair, as they, IMHO, are being greedy. If Charter were to give in and pay, the other station owners in town might also want money.

Send you letters of hate to Sinclair headquarters.

And what is wrong with the OTA station wanting to be paid for their HD signal.
Charter is charging extra for it as a premium. Why shouldn't the broadcaster get a cut.
At least you have the option to get it free OTA.
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