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MASTER BURN-IN THREAD --> All questions and information must go here - Page 4

post #91 of 386
Quote:


Originally posted by Beefgude
are there any burn in issues with the JVC D-ILA?

No
post #92 of 386
Ozz,

That is not burn in, its called black crush or lack of shadow detail. I would do as RebelScum recommends and calibrate you TV.
post #93 of 386
Quote:


Originally posted by jrtalon
if I were to keep a log on how many hours I watch in letterbox and then create a DVD where the footage is reversed, have footage where the bars for the 4:3 would be and black in the center. And run the DVD for an equal amount of time. Would that help in reversing burn-in.

It might, but you would have to have the perfect reverse image or you might end up with a strange burn in.

Here is the basic deal with burn in. Its perfectly avoidable by taking several steps

Lower your contrast (white level) below 50%

Keep the brightness (black level) near or below 50% (There are differing opinions on this one)

Stretch everything in the first 300 or so hours of the TV. Your set is more susceptible to Burn early in its life, and as time goes on there is less of a chance.

If you watch a lot of 4:3 and wont stretch buy a LCD, DLP, LCOS or D-ILA.

Its fine to watch things with black bars occasionally. After your initial break in don't worry about watching a 2.35 DVD, just make sure you that you fill the screen most of the time.

There is life with technology that burns. It just takes some minor adjustments to your viewing habits.
post #94 of 386
is "picture" the same as contrast? Also I have a panasonic it goes from 1 - 63.
I usually use the standard preset which gives me a brightness of 31 and a picture of 45.
post #95 of 386
Thankyou Rebelscum and barrybud. That eased my mind to hear your replys. I will try the DVE disk for the picture but I can tell this may take some time to figure out. I got the DVE disk a while back for my audio set-up and that seemed easy enough but the video portion of the disk was not so clear to me. I will give it shot this weekend so I might bug you guys again if thats o.k. Thanks again for the help. Rob.
post #96 of 386
Quote:


Originally posted by Barrybud
No

Barrybud, on what do you base this answer? The user manual for my JVC HD-ILA 52" clearly states that burn-in is an issue and the user should mix up his or her viewing habits. Don't get me wrong, I hope you are right. But I would like to know if you know what you are talking about?
post #97 of 386
Hi SillySorcerer,

Quote:


Originally posted by AFH

WHAT IS "BURN-IN"

Typically, "burn-in" is defined as an uneven wear of a phosphor based display unit (Plasma and CRT for example). It is the phenomena of being able to "see" the remnants of something that was being "displayed" even though you are watching totally different content. It is not image retention, which goes away.

HOW DOES IT OCCUR

It occurs due to content being viewed not in the aspect ratio of the display unit thereby aging phosphors in the display differently. For example, 4:3 content is being viewed as 4:3 content on a 16:9 display device with the side bars as "black". Viewing in this way for extended periods of time (not defined) will cause the phosphors in the middle of the unit to age faster than the phosphors in the black side bar. When phosphors age they decrease in brightness.

Since D-ILA is not a phosphor based display, its not susceptible to this. I bet that JVC in an attempt to cut corners, took a manual from a CRT based RPTV and updated it to these sets. This technology including LCoS use this fact as a selling point.

Here is a quote from the sales description on this set.

"A three-chip structure, incorporated into the HD-52Z575, continuously reproduces a flicker-free and burn-free picture."

You might want to contact JVC and ask them, just to ease your concern. I dont blameyou for the concern at all. I would want to make sure that my new toy is safe too!
post #98 of 386
Thank you, BarryBud. Your suggestion to contact JVC was a good one and I received a prompt response. I will share my question and JVC's answer in case it is of interest to others on this board:

Question: "Is the HD-52Z575 HD-ILA model susceptable to burn-in? Is it safe to watch programs in 4:3 aspect mode? Is it safe to hook up a game console?"

Answer: "The HD-52Z575 is not susceptible to screen burn. You can use the unit in 4:3 mode and with Video Game systems."

So, you are proven correct! Thank you for the help!
post #99 of 386
I hope this is the right thread for my question:

Other AVSers have informed me that LCD RPTVs do not suffer from burn-in (I previously thought they had). I can't afford a DLP set, but LCDs are much cheaper. Also, I am not too particular about video quality. I am mostly concerned about longevity, freedom from burn-in and physical dimensions (I have a narrow stairway leading to my HT). CRTs with the screen size I like are too deep.

I do, however, prefer a large screen and little to no visible mosquito noise on upconverted SD source material. I can't live with grey bars, but I watch a lot of 4:3 stuff, so I must have a BLACK bar option. Also, I will not watch stretch modes if the geometry is distorted or if part of the image is cut off.

So, since LCD RPTVs are mostly immune to burn-in, which sets with 55-60" diagonal offer a BLACK bar option for 4:3 and wide-screen viewing?
post #100 of 386
Quote:


Originally posted by Bondmanp
So, since LCD RPTVs are mostly immune to burn-in, which sets with 55-60" diagonal offer a BLACK bar option for 4:3 and wide-screen viewing?

All of them? I think you'd have a much tougher time finding one with a gray bar option.
post #101 of 386
Quote:


Originally posted by jrtalon
is "picture" the same as contrast? Also I have a panasonic it goes from 1 - 63.
I usually use the standard preset which gives me a brightness of 31 and a picture of 45.

Yes
post #102 of 386
This thread has been very helpful to me.

I just spotted the burn-in on my RPTV when I recently was dubbing camcorder over to DVD. I had a shot of the TV and noticed that the top and bottom portions of the screen were lighter. Actually, the middle had the appearance of color filters over the scene. I began to look at the screen closely during normal viewing and can tell a very slight brightness variation when there's a solid and very bright image on screen. I can also tell it when side-by-side picture is activated and the background is grey.

I have a question about "fixing" burn-in. If I try to reverse the image, shooting to the top and bottom of the screen while leaving the middle black, am I negating the burn-in or am I simply making the top and bottom go darker to even the middle? I'm guessing that it's only going to even up the burn. Thanks.
post #103 of 386
Quote:


Originally posted by durl
I have a question about "fixing" burn-in. If I try to reverse the image, shooting to the top and bottom of the screen while leaving the middle black, am I negating the burn-in or am I simply making the top and bottom go darker to even the middle? I'm guessing that it's only going to even up the burn. Thanks.

You're guessing right.
post #104 of 386
I have a different type of burn-in issue than most in this thread in that I have a 4:3 HD-RPTV. My burn-in is revealing itself by the top and bottom being lighter. It's not extremely noticeable, but I want to delay further damage as best I can. I went with it because we were watching less than 20% of widescreen content and thought it best to have a full screen to prevent burn in on the sides. (I LOATHE the idea of stretching any picture.)

What has disappointed me is that I didn't expect to see slight burn in after a couple of years and limited widescreen viewing. I had hoped that since we watch only a few hours of widescreen at a time that it wouldn't be an issue. So I guess the wake-up I've had is that if you have a RPTV, whether 16:9 or 4:3, burn-in will always be an issue regardless of what you watch.

So when will someone invent a device that turns your TV on (overnight, for example), reads the wear on the CRTs, and then beams a negative image for a period of time in order to even out the burn?
post #105 of 386
durl, wanna try my burn-in fixing method and let us know how well it works? Nothing to lose, I guess, right?
post #106 of 386
what are the new anti-burn-in features and technologies in RPTV's called?

also, what current models have these features?

edit: are tube tv's susceptible to burn-in?
post #107 of 386
Quote:


Originally posted by Joltin Joe
what are the new anti-burn-in features and technologies in RPTV's called?

also, what current models have these features?

edit: are tube tv's susceptible to burn-in?

Read the thread Joltin Joe.

There are no "anti-burn-in" features. The underlying technology of a display is susceptible to burn-in or it's not. Any CRT (tube) based display, whether direct view or projector, can suffer burn in. So can plasmas. The risk in either case can be reduced with proper adjustment and by varying the material shown. DLP, LCD, and LCoS are pretty much immune because they don't contain phosphors. There have been one or two reports of permanent image retention on LCD's, but this is extremely rare at best.
post #108 of 386
Quote:
Originally posted by rolypoly
Panoral:
The main pattern that needs to be run is a pattern that alternates between black and white every few seconds.

I would recommend two approaches to view this on your TV:
1) This type of pattern could be encoded into MPEG2 onto a DVD or CD.
2) Otherwise, if you have a video card with SVideo output, you can connect a computer through the Svideo input of your TV.

Let me know how this goes for the burn in, since I am curious on the outcome myself. I have seen this successfully work to 'fix' a PDP after running this application for 15 minutes.

Good luck
Roland

I've been trying this off and on to fix some burn-in on my CRT. I've let it run for up to 3 hours straight (at full contrast) and the burn-in is still there, although it does look to be a little diminished. But that may be my wishful thinking.

I use my laptop's s-video out to get on my RPTV, but you can also get a VGA-SVideo dongle + a long VGA extension cord for a few bucks. My old Matrox G400 included on in the box.

Steve
post #109 of 386
I have a couple of questions if you guys can help me out:

Since I began to notice slight burn-in issues with my RPTV, I re-calibrated my set so that Picture (Contrast) is at or near 50% and Brightness is just a tick above 50%.

Question 1 - Does Contrast play more of a role than Brightness when Brightness is not too high?

I put up a grey screen to look at the burn-in again. When I get REAL close, I noticed some letters in the bottom left-hand corner. After studying it for awhile (the letters are very hard to notice), I realized it's burn-in from my on-screen satellite guide. Needless to say I'm very nervous about how long it will be before the burn-in becomes a major issue.

Question 2 - Since I re-calibrated my set, will this burn-in continue to get worse where the guide is displayed or will the screen simply burn-in evenly? Will the guide continue to burn-in at a much higher rate?

Thanks everyone.
post #110 of 386
Quote:


Originally posted by durl
I have a couple of questions if you guys can help me out:

Since I began to notice slight burn-in issues with my RPTV, I re-calibrated my set so that Picture (Contrast) is at or near 50% and Brightness is just a tick above 50%.

Question 1 - Does Contrast play more of a role than Brightness when Brightness is not too high?

I put up a grey screen to look at the burn-in again. When I get REAL close, I noticed some letters in the bottom left-hand corner. After studying it for awhile (the letters are very hard to notice), I realized it's burn-in from my on-screen satellite guide. Needless to say I'm very nervous about how long it will be before the burn-in becomes a major issue.

Question 2 - Since I re-calibrated my set, will this burn-in continue to get worse where the guide is displayed or will the screen simply burn-in evenly? Will the guide continue to burn-in at a much higher rate?

Thanks everyone.

Burn-in is a function of contrast only. Brightness plays no role. In fact, the higher the brightness, the less your set is susceptible to burn-in because your decreasing your dynamic range.

I don't know where your contrast/brightness were set to before, but if you've decreased the difference b/t (Contrast % - Brightness %, which would be -1 at your current settings) then your guide will burn-in at a slower rate than before. But it will still burn-in over time if it always appears in the same place. You might try moving the picture up/down/left/right a little using your set's service menu. That would help a lot.

Steve
post #111 of 386
Stephen - thanks for the info. It's a good education for me.

I've used service menu before to perform a manual convergence so I'll do some more research on how to move the picture around a bit.
post #112 of 386
Hello,

I have been lurking around this board for quite some time but this is my first post.. I have noticed on my Mits 65311 that it has got some minor burn in from the Tivo menus.. THe direct tv logo and the white line that circles the show list.

As an fyi, this is through normal use.. When I first got the tv, the first thing I did was turn down the contrast and brightness.. I also never stay on the menus very long, but alas, after much tv watching, using tivo, i have noticed the burn in on light sky/solid light colored images..

Now here is the possible solution that I am trying now.. In an earlier post, someone mentioned taking a digital photo of the screen menu, then getting it into a computer.. The easier way is to take a digital camcorder, use the s-video out of the tivo and into the cam corder. You then go to the menu screen in Tivo and hit record on the camera.

From there, you import the short clip into your computer.. (I use a Mac) You then take the video clip, save it as a .jpg or .pct. Next open the picture in Photoshop, invert the image to a negative, and then using a white paintbrush in the tool, you erase all the image on the screen except for the direct tv logo and the white line around the show list.. This now shows up in black..

Next step is to save the image to a vcd or dvd and burn it.. After that, display the image on your tv with the brightness and contrast turned way up to speed the process of aging the non burned in areas of the screen.. You may need to use the service menu to move the lines around to make sure you are exactly lined up with the burn in image.. I first use a white screen from Avia to see the burn in clearly, then use masking tape to outline the burn in areas and compare it to the dvd image I created..

Then try leaving it on for an hour or so at a time and re-check for the burn in to fade. I have done this for about 10 hours and so far my burn in is getting noticeably more faint... Hope it completely works for me and others. good luck and let me know what you guys think...

David
post #113 of 386
Hey David. I have the exact same issue w/the DirecTV logo and outline box burned-in a bit on my RPTV. I don't have any way to get the TiVo menu into my computer to try this fix method, but it occurs to me -- wouldn't the same pattern work for me as well? Can I get a copy of it to try out myself? My email is stephen.smith@avriocorp.com
post #114 of 386
test
post #115 of 386
Anyone in Dallas have FOX4 burned in their screen like me???
post #116 of 386
I plan to play playstaion and xobox on my 53" panny widescreen crt rptv. wil i have any problem as long as i stretch the picture and not leave it paused?

thanks for the adivce
post #117 of 386
You see, burn-in is scaring me. I'd like to plunk down a mere 1500 for a 42" TV, but I will probably spend 3-5 grand on LCD or DLP because the notion of having to worry about this crap is so bad. I am so conflicted.
post #118 of 386
I apologize in advance, but if your TiVo menu is burned in your screen you must have watched the menu more than the shows that you recorded on it.
post #119 of 386
Quote:


Originally posted by jomoma
I have not done extensive research on this yet, but I cannot find info on if a LCD Rear Projection is or is not prone to burn in?



I understand DLP has no issues, can people give me a link to a site with regard to LCD RP?

Thanks much,

EW
post #120 of 386
Quote:


Originally posted by beckmen
You see, burn-in is scaring me. I'd like to plunk down a mere 1500 for a 42" TV, but I will probably spend 3-5 grand on LCD or DLP because the notion of having to worry about this crap is so bad. I am so conflicted.

Join the club. This is agonizing sometimes. Like I mentioned in another thread, I'm just gonna take the $3K and blow it in Vegas.
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