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The Official Kd-34xbr960 Thread - Page 234

post #6991 of 8134
Well, I've come full circle. Just re-purchased the XBR960 that I sold 2 years ago...LOL. My buddy Chad B is going to perform a touch-up calibration in the near future. It might be more than a touch-up though I tried a sub-$1,000 flat panel (Panasonic, Samsung, Sony) and I just wasn't happy, so I went back to CRT. For the past 2 years I've had a 60" Kuro and it was very nice. My wife and I hope to move at some point, so we've been streamlining...selling the big stuff. I will not be taking the 960 with me when I move, but it will be a nice hold-me-over-until-I-get-a-new-house-and-projector HDTV. I wonder if "nice" CRT projectors will be a lot more affordable in a couple of years?
post #6992 of 8134
Well in my quest for an awesome CRT TV for my old gaming needs (PS1, Sega Saturn) I was brought to the 960 as being the best CRT ever. I scratched it off my list when I realized my PS2 light guns wont work on any HD CRT's.

Today I stopped into a local Salvation Army to try and find an old Commodore RGB monitor, and a 960 was sitting there. Tested it out, and now its home and my PS1 games so far look great via S-Video, PS2 via component looks pretty awesome as well. Im going to plug in my PS3 and 360 just to check out some real HD on this thing. But I just wanted to share my excitement.

Price was $76.50 out the door.
post #6993 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post

Today I stopped into a local Salvation Army to try and find an old Commodore RGB monitor, and a 960 was sitting there. Tested it out, and now its home and my PS1 games so far look great via S-Video, PS2 via component looks pretty awesome as well. Im going to plug in my PS3 and 360 just to check out some real HD on this thing. But I just wanted to share my excitement.

Price was $76.50 out the door.

Wow!

Joe
post #6994 of 8134
I love Salvation Army and Goodwill...you can find THE most amazing deals there
post #6995 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post

Well in my quest for an awesome CRT TV for my old gaming needs (PS1, Sega Saturn) I was brought to the 960 as being the best CRT ever. I scratched it off my list when I realized my PS2 light guns wont work on any HD CRT's.

Today I stopped into a local Salvation Army to try and find an old Commodore RGB monitor, and a 960 was sitting there. Tested it out, and now its home and my PS1 games so far look great via S-Video, PS2 via component looks pretty awesome as well. Im going to plug in my PS3 and 360 just to check out some real HD on this thing. But I just wanted to share my excitement.

Price was $76.50 out the door.

I'm rarely jealous of people, but damn
post #6996 of 8134
Originally Posted by hemogoblin:
Well in my quest for an awesome CRT TV for my old gaming needs (PS1, Sega Saturn) I was brought to the 960 as being the best CRT ever. I scratched it off my list when I realized my PS2 light guns wont work on any HD CRT's.

Today I stopped into a local Salvation Army to try and find an old Commodore RGB monitor, and a 960 was sitting there. Tested it out, and now its home and my PS1 games so far look great via S-Video, PS2 via component looks pretty awesome as well. Im going to plug in my PS3 and 360 just to check out some real HD on this thing. But I just wanted to share my excitement.

Price was $76.50 out the door.

Originally Posted by unclepauly:
I'm rarely jealous of people, but damn

- Obviously the Salvation Army had no idea of the resale value on the secondary market. I mean, $76.50? I paid that much for an upconverting DVD player with sales tax!
post #6997 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitwize View Post

Well, I've come full circle. Just re-purchased the XBR960 that I sold 2 years ago...LOL. My buddy Chad B is going to perform a touch-up calibration in the near future. It might be more than a touch-up though I tried a sub-$1,000 flat panel (Panasonic, Samsung, Sony) and I just wasn't happy, so I went back to CRT. For the past 2 years I've had a 60" Kuro and it was very nice. My wife and I hope to move at some point, so we've been streamlining...selling the big stuff. I will not be taking the 960 with me when I move, but it will be a nice hold-me-over-until-I-get-a-new-house-and-projector HDTV. I wonder if "nice" CRT projectors will be a lot more affordable in a couple of years?

Sell high, buy low?

The only thing that my LCD seems to have over the 960 is a slightly sharper HD picture and that is only because LCDs in general lack the richer detail, color, black level and depth that the 960 has and the trade-off enables the picture to be a bit sharper, abiet, without the same type of punch.
post #6998 of 8134
I'm on a quest for the KD-34XBR960 and SU-34XBR3! I rather connect the PS3 and AppleTV well as the Xbox 360. I really want a good old Sony XBR CRT to keep from spending $5,000 plus on 3D LED XBR. It's tempting but I rather buy more photography equipment like Canon 5D Mark II. Any input on where to find a good condition 960 is welcome.
post #6999 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post

I'm on a quest for the KD-34XBR960 and SU-34XBR3! I rather connect the PS3 and AppleTV well as the Xbox 360. I really want a good old Sony XBR CRT to keep from spending $5,000 plus on 3D LED XBR. It's tempting but I rather buy more photography equipment like Canon 5D Mark II. Any input on where to find a good condition 960 is welcome.

Where are you? These TV's do not ship well.

There is always Ebay and Craigslist.
post #7000 of 8134
I'm in Houston, TX but close to Spring, TX.
post #7001 of 8134
I've also been searching for an XBR960 to no end. The power supply blew on my last one and didn't bother getting it fixed, so I upgraded to a Pioneer 5020 Kuro.. or should I say downgraded? Anyway I've had this plasma for nearly 2 years and while I enjoy the hell out of it, it's simply doesn't have as good a picture as I remember from that Sony.

I'm located in Raleigh, NC and if anyone knows anyone in the triangle area that's willing to part with one I'd pay top dollar (more than they go for on craigslist.. since none ever seem to pop up.. or I just miss it )

Thanks.
post #7002 of 8134
"I've also been searching for an XBR960 to no end. The power supply blew on my last one and didn't bother getting it fixed, so I upgraded to a Pioneer 5020 Kuro.. or should I say downgraded? Anyway I've had this plasma for nearly 2 years and while I enjoy the hell out of it, it's simply doesn't have as good a picture as I remember from that Sony."

Funny, how so many of us have added LCDs, Plasmas, etc. to our homes and still can see these newer sets still can't compare to the older 960.

Even though they have come a long way, most noticable is the amount of added detail one still sees on the 960; for example, faces appear smooth on a LCD while lines and stubble can be seen on the 960. Same with the minute details in nature and travel programs. There is overall more richness in the picture due to the depth perception that flat screens are unable to duplicate. And, of course, non-HD material is upscaled much better.

While very happy with the Samsung LCD in our den, I too would be disappointed if I had to replace the 960 for anything else would be less, despite the bigger screen size.
post #7003 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

I too would be disappointed if I had to replace the 960 for anything else would be less, despite the bigger screen size.

Yes I'm enjoying the real estate of the 50" plasma. This is probably the key reason I decided to go for it instead of another 960 back then. It does really have a wow factor to it, something that 34" just can't accomplish in that respect. The Pioneer is probably the best of the bunch out there now, but for the life of me I don't recall it having as good a picture as the 960.

The main concern for me is upscaling dvds isn't quite up to par on the Pioneer. Yes, it's watchable but the 960 made my dvds look like HD. Until my collection of dvds gets an HD treatment, I'll always give the nod to the 960. Besides, I don't feel like buying my whole collection again just to have a similar picture on the Pioneer.

To be fair I didn't even give HD material a shot on the 960, since at the time all I had was a dvd player and Xbox 360 (no blu-ray). But I STILL remember it having a better picture than 90% of the content that I watch on this plasma (which is HD all the time since SD isn't great on it).

Oh well.. I'll keep lookin' for one in the Raleigh area.
post #7004 of 8134
Man you missed out, Blu-ray is outstanding on the 960. On my KDS-60A3000 Blu-rays are a little sharper and of course 60", but any movie that has decent image quality ALWAYS goes to the 960 so I can see *exactly what I'm looking at*.
post #7005 of 8134
Ok I finally got the 960 setup in my bedroom and it looks great. Blu ray, Xbox 360, even PS1 looks great. But I have a few concerns.

On almost every input I have to turn brightness up to at least 45-55, and so far its best at 52-55 to get rid of black crush. I cant seem to get a good balance of keeping away black crush without looking a bit washed out, any suggestions?

Whites on this thing are either really amazing or something is wrong. On certain whites in HD (lightbulbs, sunlight, flames) the whites are so strong that if I stare at them I need to squint. Its very cool but scary, it feels like its too bright and may damage the screen.

I havent touched the service menu, but probably will. Do all 960's have the same default settings? I'd like to see if the previous owner touched them.

And when you mess with the service menu, is it for each specific input and each specific picture mode? Or is it an overall thing?

I have only tweaked this thing with the built in Sony Blu Ray easter eggs, here are my HDMI settings:

Pro
Picture: 25
Brightness: 58
Color: 35
Hue: 0
Sharpness: Min
Temp: Neutral
Color Axis: Monitor

Now I do like my screens on the bright side, but I feel like I NEED to have it this high just to see dark detail. Could there be an issue?
post #7006 of 8134
.Hemogoblin.

Brightness should always be much lower compared to contrast (i.e, picture). IMHO, these settings being in reverse is probably the cause for your sqinting.

I'm not familiar with the easter eggs found on your bluray disc - are they like the THM Optomizer found on DVDs that contain different patterns for each user setting? Also keep in mind that what might be good for bluray might not be good for HD-TV, since the outputs are from different components (I have a HDMI switchbox and use PRO for HD and MOVIE for upconverted DVD since otherwise all user settings would need changing when switching between the two).

I tweaked the user settings for cable as follows with the help of HD test patterns stored on my DVR:

PRO, Picture 43, Brightness 27, Color 41, Hue R2, Sharpness 33, temp cool, edge off, color axis default.

Hope these suggestions help.

I also went into the service menu to callibrate service settings and found many set by the factory were way off from both, the Sony defaults and the general consenus found under the forum SONY SERVICE CODES. Be sure to refer to the chart specifically for the 960 since it covers other models as well.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Joe
post #7007 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post
I havent touched the service menu, but probably will. Do all 960's have the same default settings? I'd like to see if the previous owner touched them.
It's actually unlikely that all 960's have the same "default" settings... even when they first came out of the factory. Certainly my 960 did not have the service manual defaults on it when it was brand new and first delivered years ago. Seems like Sony must have tested each one before shipping, and the pre-loaded factory defaults definitely do not match the service manual, much less from one 960 to another.


Quote:
And when you mess with the service menu, is it for each specific input and each specific picture mode? Or is it an overall thing?
Some settings are "global" for all inputs and resolutions, and other settings are specific to a particular input and resolution.

It is absolutely true that a number of settings also vary by picture mode, whether "global"or not. Your choice of PRO is proper to allow you to adjust things without any mode-preset interference. But you can adjust things while in a mode-preset, and it will be that preset's settings which will be remembered.


Quote:
Pro
Picture: 25
Brightness: 58
Color: 35
Hue: 0
Sharpness: Min
Temp: Neutral
Color Axis: Monitor
Without looking at the corresponding service menu settings it's hard to explain why you would need 58 on brightness in the user menu. Everybody's set is a bit different, as are our tastes, viewing room environment, etc.

For example, not that it really means anything but my INPUT7 settings are:

Mode\t\tPRO
Picture\t\t35
Brightness\t\t32
Color\t\t31
Hue\t\t0
Sharpness\t\tMIN
Color Temp\t\tCOOL
Clear Edge\t\tOFF
Color Axis\t\tDEFAULT

Note that I prefer color temp of "cool", which tends to produce a more bluish white. And for that, I found color axis of "default" gave me the best flesh tones... although there were four particular service menu items relating to the infamous Sony factory-provided "red push" that absolutely must be adjusted (if they haven't already been on yours) to tone down the reddish tint on skin. These four items (RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB) are in 2170P-4 section in the attached spreadsheet (service menu sheet) and are shown as "VITAL >>".

So comparing your numbers to mine or anyone else's is just for reference, not because one is right and one is wrong. Adjust things so that you're happy... but be sure to use a stationary test image from and accepted reference test source (DVD, etc.), especially for overscan adjustment and brightness/contrast and color.

Nevertheless, to help you on your way and to serve as a nice and organized starting point for "writing down" your current settings before you begin to tweak, I'm attaching my own spreadsheet for my 960, showing both (a) user-menu, and (b) service-menu. All items are shown, with my current settings values. If my settings differ from the service manual defaults, the service manual defaults are shown next to it within parentheses (so you can really see what the theoretical factory defaults are).

Finally, regarding geometry and convergence, my set's picture tube received a "magnet job" soon after it arrived... which is the only way to make certain corrections that cannot be fixed through the service menu. I was unhappy with the bowing and curvature and convergence issues out-of-the-box and arranged with Sony to have a service factory tech pay me a visit to try and fix things. That first visit was less than successful and I was quite unhappy.

I called Sony again, and they authorized a second visit but this time from a local authorized service tech of my choice, who turned out to be a really terrific well-trained and motivated person. He spent two hours (across two separate visits, because he ran out of magnets during the first visit) working on all the corners and horizontal lines, correcting curvature and convergence problems.

So my own personal geometry settings which you see in the attached spreadsheet reflect my particular picture tube post-magnet-job. Obviously your set is different, and my numbers will not really apply directly.

Still... a pre-populated complete settings spreadsheet for the 960 is definitely what you need to begin from.

 

kd-34xbr960.zip 24.2626953125k . file
post #7008 of 8134
Hemogoblin,

Dsperber is so right when it comes to adjustments - each set is different and user settings are so dependent upon the service adjustments. If you notice my user settings are different from Dsperber's but I'm willing to make a gentleman's wager that there is hardly a difference in the actual picture, probably due to the service settings.

And he is right - those four service adjustments affecting red push are vital and almost every post I've seen uses those same numbers.

If you use a set-up bluray or DVD, be sure all enhanacements within the player are off, including dark levels. This should work fine for both, adjusting the service menu for 1080i and the user settings for bluray/upconverted DVD. I just wish cable providers set aside an on-demand feature dedicated to setting up one's monitor with test patterns like INHD did about five years ago before going off the air (so glad I have them stored on DVR). Know I'm repeating myself but HD adjustments can differ slightly from those for bluray or upconverted DVD and turn a great picture into an even greater one, so don't be afraid to slightly fine-tune those settings a bit to see if there is any improvement on your cable or dish setup.
post #7009 of 8134
Sometimes it's better just to have a pro come out and touch it up, that way you know you didn't make anything worse and you are getting the most out of your set. Too bad it costs a few clams
post #7010 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclepauly View Post

Sometimes it's better just to have a pro come out and touch it up, that way you know you didn't make anything worse and you are getting the most out of your set. Too bad it costs a few clams

Hello,

I like your attitude! A pro who knows CRT can come in, focus on only what needs to be changed in the user and service menus and be done in several hours. Geometry probably takes the most time, even for a pro. In addition the pro should know where best to make compromise as a CRT is an imperfect beast by nature. Personally I won't do without CRT - I still love it. Yes calibration costs clams, but worth is relative. A calibrated XBR960 (which we own) is a beautiful display to enjoy.

Joe
post #7011 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post


Note that I prefer color temp of "cool", which tends to produce a more bluish white. And for that, I found color axis of "default" gave me the best flesh tones... although there were four particular service menu items relating to the infamous Sony factory-provided "red push" that absolutely must be adjusted (if they haven't already been on yours) to tone down the reddish tint on skin. These four items (RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB) are in 2170P-4 section in the attached spreadsheet (service menu sheet) and are shown as "VITAL >>".

Hello,

Great post.

RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB adjust the color decoder for Red and Green, respectively. Blue is done in the user menu using the color and hue controls, and must be done prior to adjusting the Red and Green color decoder controls. You can do a "blue only" mode using SM controls, which is very helpful when setting color and hue. In addition you can isolate green and red when adjusting the color decoder. A color bars pattern and color decoder adjust pattern are required for these adjustments.

I agree in that using some else's settings is not the way to go. Variability in components, materials, personal taste, etc all work against the person using another persons settings. Do your homework for a DIY project. Read, read, read!

Regards,

Joe
post #7012 of 8134
Regarding color temperature, I have my 960 set to cool in order to have pure white to achieve the proper brightness and picture adjustments. After adjustments are completed, does the temperature setting then become simply a matter of preference or would changing it also affect the user settings requiring adjustment once again?

Thanks as always,,
Joe
post #7013 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit HDTV View Post

Hello,

I like your attitude! A pro who knows CRT can come in, focus on only what needs to be changed in the user and service menus and be done in several hours. Geometry probably takes the most time, even for a pro. In addition the pro should know where best to make compromise as a CRT is an imperfect beast by nature. Personally I won't do without CRT - I still love it. Yes calibration costs clams, but worth is relative. A calibrated XBR960 (which we own) is a beautiful display to enjoy.

Joe

Yeah I basically just put my set to warm/monitor and turned sharpness and brightness down and it's beautiful. I can't wait to have somebody come out and dial this baby in, of course as soon as I rack up a few clams
post #7014 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Regarding color temperature, I have my 960 set to cool in order to have pure white to achieve the proper brightness and picture adjustments. After adjustments are completed, does the temperature setting then become simply a matter of preference or would changing it also affect the user settings requiring adjustment once again?

Thanks as always,,
Joe

Hello Joe,

Changing color temperature may change the brightness and, tp a lesser extent contrast (Picture). If you recheck Brightness after changing the color temperature preset you should be fine. Other user controls should stay the same.

Regards,

Joe
post #7015 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclepauly View Post

Yeah I basically just put my set to warm/monitor and turned sharpness and brightness down and it's beautiful. I can't wait to have somebody come out and dial this baby in, of course as soon as I rack up a few clams

Hello,

Please feel free to contact me. I service the Toledo area.

Regards,

Joe
post #7016 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit HDTV View Post

Hello Joe,

Changing color temperature may change the brightness and, tp a lesser extent contrast (Picture). If you recheck Brightness after changing the color temperature preset you should be fine. Other user controls should stay the same.

Regards,

Joe

That's good to know and I'll give it a try on neutral. Will let you know if I did indeed need to change picture and brightness using those test patterns.

Oh, BTW, my color axis is set to monitor, not default as originally posted. Agree with everyone who says default places too much emphasis on red, however, I did notice a smaller difference between the two after having the set callibrated.

Thanks to Joe from Joe.

UPDATE:

Joe,

Just as you said - minute changes were required with brightness slightly more than picture and the rest of the settings remaining the same.

For HD, the test patterns indicated the picture needed lowering by one digit and brightness three; for upconverted DVD, picture was also lowered by one digit with the brightness raised by two (due to the player's output set to dark).

Picture looks great no matter what the color temperature and since it is a matter of preference (not callibration or proper adjustment) am keeping it at neutral for a while.
post #7017 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

That's good to know and I'll give it a try on neutral. Will let you know if I did indeed need to change picture and brightness using those test patterns.

Oh, BTW, my color axis is set to monitor, not default as originally posted. Agree with everyone who says default places too much emphasis on red, however, I did notice a smaller difference between the two after having the set callibrated.

Thanks to Joe from Joe.

UPDATE:

Joe,

Just as you said - minute changes were required with brightness slightly more than picture and the rest of the settings remaining the same.

For HD, the test patterns indicated the picture needed lowering by one digit and brightness three; for upconverted DVD, picture was also lowered by one digit with the brightness raised by two (due to the player's output set to dark).

Picture looks great no matter what the color temperature and since it is a matter of preference (not callibration or proper adjustment) am keeping it at neutral for a while.

Hi Joe,

Glad it worked out! After a grayscale calibration the calibrator must check user brightness for exactly the same scenario - altering color temperature cuts and drives can affect brightness and to a lesser extent contrast. You're right about color axis default/monitor. Default is awful and is meant for a showroom. Monitor produces a toned down red (less red push), but it can be made better via service menu intervention. But for the user Monitor is a great option!

Regards,

Joe
post #7018 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit HDTV View Post

Hi Joe,

Glad it worked out! After a grayscale calibration the calibrator must check user brightness for exactly the same scenario - altering color temperature cuts and drives can affect brightness and to a lesser extent contrast. You're right about color axis default/monitor. Default is awful and is meant for a showroom. Monitor produces a toned down red (less red push), but it can be made better via service menu intervention. But for the user Monitor is a great option!

Regards,

Joe

Hi Joe,

That explains that while there was the slight but obvious difference on overall color it didn't offset the color saturation and tint on the test patterns viewed through the blue-filter glasses.

It also brought out a bit of silver-type shading on some graphics (i.e., the THX logo on DVDs) which was probably blocked out by the blue tint of the cool temperature.

Thanks again.

Joe
post #7019 of 8134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Hi Joe,

That explains that while there was the slight but obvious difference on overall color it didn't offset the color saturation and tint on the test patterns viewed through the blue-filter glasses.

Correct! Grayscale (color temperature) and color/tint are independent functions. Changing grayscale shouldn't change color and tint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

It also brought out a bit of silver-type shading on some graphics (i.e., the THX logo on DVDs) which was probably blocked out by the blue tint of the cool temperature.

Thanks again.

Joe

You have a good eye. Getting color temperature closer to D65 removes color bias. Grayscale calibration is the process of setting the color coordinates to D65 from black light level to bright white light level. That's why it's called grayscale, as we try to adjust over the entire range of brightness. Removing color bias through grayscale calibration produces a neutral canvas on which to lay down color. The result of grayscale calibration is you end up seeing positive differences in unusual colors, like silver, tan, gold, brown, etc. I could go on. When you went from Cool to Neutral you went closer to D65.

Combining correct grayscale with aligned color decoder controls makes overall color performance that much better because now red/green push/pull is eliminated as well!

Regards,

Joe
post #7020 of 8134
Hello,

Here's a calibration report of a Sony KV-34XBR960.



The both pre and post calibration results are shown. The upper left graph in each page shows the color temperature, with the white line (reference) showing 6500 K. The lower left chart shows how each RBG "Gun" relates to the other. Ideally each RBG color will lay on top of the others all through the brightness. BTW as you move on the X axis from left to right the brightness goes from near black (10 IRE) to bright white (100 IRE). This is a very well behaved display and capable of excellent color reproduction.

If you want to see a better rendition of this report with more explanation look here http://www.summithdtv.com/sample_reports.htm. There are a couple XBR960 reports listed under Sony.

Regards,

Joe
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