The Official Kd-34xbr960 Thread - Page 253

All I know is if my 960 is ever in need of repair, I'm flying you in from San Francisco to New York no matter what the cost!

Can imagine your joy at discovering the 960 was back up and running. Good luck with the new Plasma too - and unless you are into 3D, I think you did well to avoid paying more for the 3D feature for no matter what the industry tries to spin, the picture quality is not really better due to the "advanced" technology required for 3D (3D is a dud but remember when the first signs of it being a flop became apparent, the advertising hype was changed to emphasize getting it for the best 2D picture instead?).

BTW - if both sets are in the space you wanted the Plasma, there's always those TV stands on wheels and then you can always move the Plasma in front of the 960 whenever you want to.

Correct.

But just because PRO starts off by eliminating all of the "torch mode" settings in the VIVID preset, and thus looks darker and duller by comparison, if you watch TV in a dark room these initial PRO settings with lesser brightness and lesser contrast actually make for quite a stunning picture... viewing in a dark room.

VIVID was intended for viewing in a brightly lit store environment, where higher brightness and contrast was required to have the customer be able to see anything on the screen.


Anyway, all of the VIVID, MOVIE, STD and PRO setups are simply "presets", with VIVID having the largest "bias" values off of dead-center flat. But you can still apply user-customizations to all four of them and they will be remembered (uniquely).

PRO simply starts off as "FLAT", with no built-in bias for anything. And because of this it's actually the proper starting point for tweaking user and service mode settings to optimize the picture from the XBR960.

So you can create your own four separate customized "presets" for four different viewing conditions, with these four names even though the settings are yours. Yes, you will be starting from the internal preset bias values but you can adjust them yourself. I'd suggest allocating PRO to the dark room viewing environment, and VIVID for the bright daylight room viewing environment, etc.

Hi Ds,

I too noticed that if I lowered the vivid picture/brightness controls (with the aid of test patterns) enough to eliminate the torch effect the picture was dull and flat. Service settings had been tweaked prior to that. When seriously watching the set (for a movie or sporting event - not QVC we tend to keep the room lowerly lit to begin with so our service and user settings were made under those conditions.

The closest of the two picture modes when properly tweaked seem to be standard and pro. Use movie mode for DVDs because it shares the HDMI input with the DVR (have a switch box for multiple HDMI uses).

How have things been?

Could be just the combination of all of the Sony factory adjustments going into the VIVID preset cause the result you describe when turning down just brightness or contrast in trying to make it a bit less "vivid". Might be that there are further service menu settings that should also be reduced, and that just one or two simple user menu reductions actually do make it look kind of worse.

I honestly can't contribute from firsthand experience, because I never leave the PRO-tweaked setup I have, no matter whether it's day or night. This is my one-and-only viewing setup "for real", and is intended and optimized (for me, anyway) for true dark room environment watching when I sit down to seriously view anything (be it HDTV or BluRay movies).

I actually don't care what it looks like if I'm working on my computer during the day and have the TV on ("in the background") for a talk show or something irrelevant. So the fact that with daylight in the room the picture is clearly not really usable is just not critical to me, as long as I can hear the sound. I know, that sounds unacceptable for others, but it's just how I use TV... during the day, anyway.



I've got my three HD sources (DVR which is actually HTPC, Oppo BluRay player, and DVHS VCR) going through my Yamaha AVR, with the HDMI output of the AVR feeding the XBR960. I simply use my one and only PRO adjustments settings for everything. Never touch the XBR960 from that, even though there are bound to be minor differences in appearance on the TV from TV show to TV show, as well as from movie to movie.

Perhaps it's just laziness, but it's like the audio EQ setup in my car, where I just feel I've found the "optimal" general setup that seems to work "best, for almost everything". I just don't want to fool with it anymore because I don't want to lose that "sweet spot" I've found, fearing I'll never find it again. Same with my XBR960 viewing setup, all other variables in my environment considered. Same with my home sound system setup to go along with the XBR960, which also involves adjustments to several component/variables. I just like the final result, and have gotten used to it for general use, even though for individual situations perhaps there might be some little tweak here or there that could make it "better".

I've just gotten used to the audio/visual results of what was a focused effort to find "the best" settings in all of these systems. I have definitely "gotten use to" all of these results, and now just use (a) POWER on/off, and (b) AVR volume. I know that sounds almost criminally naive, but it's all just that otherwise satisfying to me with the net total set of "adjustments" that we all know really went into the setup/tweaking of each individual component in the entire system.



Good! My XBR960 is now about 8 years old (knock wood) and still stunning. I have made only two subsequent very small geometry and picture adjustments in the user and service menus since settling on my original set of values as recorded in the spreadsheet I'd posted a long time ago. These small "post-launch course corrections" were done a few years ago now, and I attribute the need for them to ordinary aging of the set.

Apart from its original two "failed" visits from a Sony factory tech when I first bought it because of geometry problems when it was brand new, followed by two "successful" visits (one primary, and one follow-up for some small further adjustments) from a local very qualified TV service technician who did the very significant and completely successful "magnet job" on the picture tube and additional "by sight" service menu adjustments, all of which were done in the first few months of its life in my home, it's never needed any further formal technician service since.

Never been ISF'd, and I don't want to start now. Best to leave well enough alone.

I still watch from a viewing distance of about 4-1/2' to 5'. Sure, the 55" new Sony XBR LCD set at my sister's is much larger and can be watched from the sofa across the room, and it can deliver 1080p, but I'm still perfectly content with my XBR960 and my own personal viewing/listening configuration.


It should be noted that I still don't have a true multi-channel loudspeaker-based sound system, although I do use an old Altec-Lansing 621 2.1 speaker system as my "external speakers" for the XBR960 (fed from AVR, and DBX EQ for tone control), rather than the pretty poor built-in speakers on the TV itself.

The rest of the "serious listening" capability comes from headphones. This Stax and Smyth Realiser-based system has undergone a number of very significant improvements over the years:

(a) Stax SR-Omega headphones (aka Omega-1), vintage 1995

(b) Stax SRM-007tII headphone amp (recently acquired, replacing a former Stax SRM-T1S vintage 1995 headphone amp); the amp is fed via Audioquest King Cobra XLR cables from an external DAC

(c) Audio-GD NFB9 external DAC, feeding the headphone amp via XLR cables; fed via 2-channel optical digital from my Smyth Realiser

(d) Smyth A8 Realiser, for "SVS" processing fed from multi-channel input; delivers 2-channel headphone-intended digital optical output of its "SVS-processed sound" to the external DAC; fed via discrete 8-channel analog input from the discrete 8-channel preamp outputs of my Yamaha AVR. The AVR (for DD5.1 delivered by the DVR or DVHS VCR) or Oppo (for DD5.1, DTS-MAHD, etc., delivering 192/LPCM to the AVR) converts digital to discrete channel analog for delivery via preamp outputs to the Realiser.

The Realiser replaces the previous Dolby Headphone processors I used to use way back when (Pioneer DIR-SE1000C and Philips HD1500U).

The current digital optical delivery system from Realiser to external DAC and analog XLR cable to the SRM-007tII amp is a recent upgrade. Originally this was an all-analog RCA 2-channel analog delivery system (making use of the Realiser's built-in DAC and output amp), going from the Realiser's RCA headphone outputs to my DBX 14/10 EQ for gain and 14-band tone control, and then from DBX EQ to the SRM-T1S headphone amp.

Although my own Realiser cannot be upgraded, more recent models of the Realiser include an HDMI-input option, to support input of 8-channel discrete LPCM digital audio (decoded upstream by the source device) via HDMI, in addition to its alternative 8-channel discrete analog inputs. This avoids the A-to-D conversion in the Realiser (needed for the analog inputs) in order to perform the digital SVS processing of multi-channel source to "Smyth virtual surround" 2-channel headphone.

Using the 8-channel LPCM via HDMI input option the entire multi-channel source delivery system feeding input to SVS is then completely digital, with no D-to-A and A-to-D conversions needed. And when the optical-to-external-DAC output system is involved, the only analog stage anywhere is that final required one feeding the headphone amp from the external DAC, to provide the SVS-processed 2-channel "virtual surround" headphone result from the 8-channel digital input.


For anybody not knowing about the Smyth Realiser, this is NOT DOLBY HEADPHONE nor is it anything like Dolby Headphone. It is a system designed to deliver sound through headphones that is an exact duplicate of any listening environment sound room you take a "measurement" in. The "measurement" involves calibrated microphones inserted into your ears, processing the measured binaural results from listening to specific generated sweep signals sent individually by the Realiser (in "calibration mode") to each speaker the listening room.

The digital results (stored as a file on an SD flash card and/or in digital memory of the Realiser) describe how YOUR EARS AND BRAIN heard the sound IN THAT ROOM, involving all of the characteristics going into what makes that room sound like that room to you. This includes the net total effect of floor, wall and ceiling treatments and sound baffles, speakers used and their placement, electronics and delivery components, etc.

When that digital file (known as a PRIR, which describes how that room sounded to your own ears) is used "in reverse", to LISTEN TO ANY MULTI-CHANNEL SOURCE through that same "filter", the effect is as if you were listening to whatever source content you're listeing to IN THE VERY SAME ORIGINAL LISTENING ENVIRONMENT.

In other words, it's like taking home a "sonic photograph" of any listening room in which the PRIR measurement gets made (think buying an hour of high-end sound studio time, and getting a PRIR to take home with you) that is a perfect sonic "filter" which can then be used to duplicate that room's sound in your headphones from any source you care to play back through that filter. Watch a BluRay movie or HDTV program, and through your headphones it sounds like you are in that original high-end studio listening room to the sound through the speakers and environment of that room.

There is no "optimal" or "best" PRIR. That's not the intent of the system. In fact, you probably will accumulate a whole "library" collection of assorted PRIR's, from each "measurement" you're lucky enough to arrange in some particular sound studio or theater or home or wherever. You then use any or all of them at "playback" time, to listen to actual new movie/DVR content in your bedroom or living room or theater... through headphones.

So your collection of PRIR's represents different listening rooms you've been fortunate enough to "measure". And then you can duplicate the sound of that particular room when listening through headphones to anything fed through that particular PRIR "filter", thanks to the Realiser and SVS processing.

If you haven't ever heard of it or experienced SVS for yourself (and in particularly, been lucky enough to arrange for a PRIR measurement in a high-end sound studio with astonishing sound that you would otherwise never be able to afford for yourself in your own home, e.g. the AIX mixing room in Los Angeles), and if you're a real lover of high-end sound and high-end headphones... look into it.

Some TVs have a photo sensor linked to one of the pic adjust settings that automatically adjusts for room light. On my Panasonic CT-34WX50 it's called Auto.

Yes, my XBR8 has a "Light Sensor" that "allows the TV to automatically adjust the backlight brightness based on the picture settings and the ambient room light conditions."

I had one on an old Panasonic CRT from the late eighties and liked it, however, with a high definition set I'm wondering if those sensors could have some drawbacks for the more serious viewer. After calibrating, the viewing conditions would thus always need remain constant for otherwise could the sensor somewhat alter the picture quality since detail, color and sharpness is so much dependent upon proper brightness and contrast settings? So if the brightness and contrast changes under varying conditions, could that throw off the "true" HD picture quality during certain times, even if calibrated with the sensor off? Maybe not off by much, but for the discerning viewer that could make a major difference.

So I'm not too sure how much use of a sensor would alter the more complex picture quality of high definition.

My Panasonic 34" widescreen HD CRT works fine with it but I don't know about flat panels, assuming they even have it. I would think the trick is to adjust pic in a dark room, which I suspect is a standard methodology, and let the sensor do its magic in a bright room.

Hi All, it's been a while since I have been on the thread.

Like some of you, I too have two 960s and just ran into my first MALFUNCTION. The screen suddenly went dark red with only ghost-like images visible. Use Directv with composite inputs. Swapped cable, rebooted TV and receiver, nothing.

Anything I should know? I would hate to discover it's shot.

I've decided to turn to the darkside and replace my XBR960 with, dare I say it, a Panasonic plasma big screen.

As such I am selling our XBR with the SONY stand. So if you (or someone you know) are in the San Francisco Bay Area and want (or need) this excellent TV, contact me and we'll work out a deal. sgmeza(at)sbcglobal.net Thanks

I pulled the trigger on Panasonic TCP65VT30 65" 600Hz 1080p 3D TV.

So, my XBR960 with Sony stand, remote and manuals gotta go.....

NO reasonable offer refused - the TV is in Dublin CA (San Francisco East Bay)

Sergio
sgmeza@sbcglobal.net

PCA,

Just make sure that nobody confuses the TV in Dublin for the one in my house.

How are you enjoying the 3D on your new set?

This may be better suited for the audio forum but thought I'd post here to see what you think...

I recently obtained my third 34XBR960, and a beauty it is. All I have now is an Xbox 360 but for some reason the picture looks sharper with more brilliant color with the component connection. I also used it instead of HDMI on my last one because the HDMI resulted in slightly softer picture. I also noticed the same with my Oppo DVD player. When using monoprice component cable and 480i mode even DVDs are astoundingly sharp. Not so much with HDMI (tried several cables). I don't know what I'm doing wrong but that's how it is.

Anyway the real question I need answered is can you recommend me a receiver that's under $600 that has lots of rca component connections? Currently I'm using an Okyo SR608 and it's been good to me. I know it's nothing high end but I'm okay with that. I have it hooked up to Definitive Audio 600-series speakers and for a setup that cost a grand it rocks my room.

I plan to keep these speakers and just need a replacement receiver that has several standard a/v and component inputs (like min 4 each). Would be nice to have some standard a/v, hdmi, etc but not necessary. Does Onkyo make one for me that you can recommend, or perhaps another brand that's just as good?

If someone can tell me how to properly adjust things maybe I'll keep what I have because I have like 5 hdmi inputs on my Onkyo and it's a nice unit.

The sony should have at least two component inputs on it.
I suspect the sony crts work better on component than hdmi, with newer sources anyway.
Seems I've read some people prefer component always.

Last receiver I bought, the switching was so useless and the amp quality so bad, I returned the unit and bought a used one of the same brand, but made earlier.
No regrets.

The only choices I found at the time were high end preamps with superb flexibility and high quality, and high cost.

Separate editing switchers is another alternative for you.
Editing is the only time I'll probably need more than the seven inputs on the sonys.
A lot of analog equipment is on the market now.

I read an article (search 'component vs HDMI') and it stated that HDMI is not always better than component, depends on the devices, setup, etc. Of course it could be due to picture settings on your devices, at least for the TV the menu settings most likely change vs input and format. Hopefully the 960 and/or gaming experts here can help you further.


I see lots of those going dirt cheap on Craigslist as folks upgrade to HDMI (or HDMI to 3D?). Fry's ads have been showing new ones on sale for only a few hundred bucks although they may have cut back on the number of component ports with the proliferation of HDMI. I don't know about those Onkyos, my neighbor gave me his TX-SR707 after the audio section went out and after looking this malady up on the 'net it appears it's a (or was) common problem with Onkyos; he said it was only a few years old and he paid around $800, amazing a new and even fancier equivalent I've seen in the Fry's ads for $300 (BTW this 707 (HDMI) only has two component inputs and one component output).

Let me know if you need someone to take the stand off your hands

Digital to digital conversion is not always better than analog to digital. Picture quality is much more dependant on the DA4 scalers used in the XBR960. The DA4 chassis has no real HDMI capabilities. It has a integrated HDMI (or DVI on previous models) to component coverter, which is HDCP compliant. This conversion brings its losses.
Pure 1080i in analog will not require any scaling and should result in a better quality image, if only slightly.
Ive observed the same on some Samsung Slimfits (other than the horrible geometry ). The picture quality in component is more precise and has less digital to digital loss.
Remember that all CRT's are analog. No way its information being sent to the CRT .
There is always a loss when there is conversion, be it digital to digital or analog to digital (or vice versa). The Xbox 360 has a 720p output without scaling. The DA4 has a 1080i 'native' resolution (no scaling required).
This means
XBOX 360 to HDMI out : 720p to 1080i scaling - Digital to digital
inside the XBR960 : UD board converts 1080i digital to 1080i analog in component format - digital to analog
the picture is then processed by the MID and DRC on the B-board and sent as RGB signals to the CRT.
Here's how it is:


Yes i know its written DVI but the same applies to the HDMI board on the XBR960 (different revision of the UD board which has integrated amplification of the component signal)

In the past I did compare HDMI to component, using test patterns to try and get the settings to be equal.

Found picture quality to be a subtle bit more sharper and vivid than component for both my HD DVR and DVD (both commercial and my own DVD-R recordings) up-converted to 1080i as opposed to 480p.

But I must also add that I only calibrated the HDMI service settings on my own (with HD test patterns) and not component - perhaps had I tweaked component as well I might not have noticed any difference.

While not this exact set I've found that my Toshiba 30HF66 does display a bit better performance over component than over HDMI. Resolution test patterns showed component had the edge over HDMI using the same picture settings on both inputs. I'd wager that most HD CRTs do slightly better over component than HDMI do to the signal remaining analog.

Well,

Just now you guys have me thinking I should do the long exercise all over again with the component - except that had test patterns stored on my HD DVR from the old INHD station that were accidentally erased and I as yet do not have a bluray. I find external test patterns much easier to use than those inside the unit - the internal geometry patterns alone caused a much distorted picture.

Of course there's the issue of how a source device spits out its signals. For example a blu-ray player with a 1080p disk has to convert to 1080i and there's its conversion to component output. Also the frame conversion for 24p.

Then some blu-ray disks (players too?) won't allow HD on component due to copy protection.

Is that bluray or just dvd upconversion?
I have noted that my dvd recorders won't accept component input.

Panasonic told me that my Pana outputs in hidef on component.
Seems to.

If I can't get hidef, I have no use for bluray whatsoever.

Blu-ray and possibly DVDs. The film makers didn't want their HD stuff being pirated so copy-restriction is part of HDMI protocol or somesuch; component was before this time so that's how the component requirement came to be as far as I know. I believe component outputs on blu-ray players is being or has been phased out. Also something about some blu-ray disk makers putting a flag on the disk to prevent 'full' HD on component (although I think in 'olden' times 480p might have been considered HD). The manual for my older Sony blu-ray player shows that it may only output 480i or 480p on component with some copy-guarded BDs/DVDs and if I set to output 1080p it'll output 480i on component. It'll give me 1080i on component if the BD isn't restricted and 480p on component if the DVD isn't restricted (regardless of 720p or 1080i setting for DVD). The table&notes in the manual would be worth a thousand words here (model BDP-S300).

My 960 will turn seven years old next month and I still wouldn't trade it for anything else out there today.

Not a knock on today's flat screens - just that despite the now too many screen areas where the coating came off (not noticeable with normal daylight or low indoor lighting) I am still amazed at the unmatched vivid detail this set has to offer.

BTW - still unplug the 960 one a month for about ten minutes for the degauser to fully do it's job.

..... also, just want to keep this forum going.

My bluray puts out a better picture when component is assigned over hdmi.
Seems to be a processing thing.
They may all be that way.

I saw a 910 recently being fed off hdmi, but through a receiver that may have some processing in it.
It was the Fifth Element on bluray.
Looked very good.

Hey guys I'm planning on buying one of these on Craigslist. Just so I'm clear, you can turn off HDPT in the settings so that 1080i signals are converted to analog, therefore eliminating input lag, right? So that would mean that since the Xbox 360 can upscale everything to 1080i on its own, there won't be any lag for 360 games, correct? Also if I were to hook up a composite (red white and yellow) device to this TV, would I be able to view it in 4:3 without input lag? Or would I have to have that ugly stretched-out picture (and would there be input lag even then)? I'm planning to pick it up on Saturday so if someone could answer these questions before then that would be awesome. Feel free to answer with a reply to this thread or you can just PM me if you prefer. Thanks a lot guys.
Edited by jameslieb1 - 7/10/12 at 5:26am

The component inputs are analog.

You can display 4:3 as 4:3.

So no stretched-out picture? And what about input lag?
Edited by jameslieb1 - 7/10/12 at 9:42am

4:3 unless you want it otherwise.


I have no idea about input lag.

Don't understand. What is HDPT??

What is "input lag"? Are you referring to the time that it takes for the 960 to re-configure itself if you change from a source feed at 1080i to 720p or 480i? Yes, that takes 1-2 seconds and the screen goes dark briefly during that process. This is referred to as "native", with the source always being true source resolution and the 960 accepting that source resolution in its "native" form (rather than being up-converted to a fixed 1080i by the source device and fed to the 960 at a constant 1080i so that the 960 never has to switch resolutions, which causes 1-2 seconds of dark while that happens).

1080i refers to an HD format, delivered to the 960 either via component video (3-cables red, blue, green) or HDMI. Either way, it's 1080i format filling the entire 16x9 screen.

Again, don't understand. The 960 doesn't do any upscaling of its own. It simply accepts whatever program resolution the source device delivers, and that is what gets displayed. If you deliver a new program at a different resolution than the previous program was at, the 960 will take that 1-2 seconds to reconfigure itself, to accept the new program's "native" resolution and display it.

So if you want the 960 to never "change resolutions" to avoid that occasional 1-2 second hiccup, then you simply use your xBox set at a fixed output of 1080i and let it do the up-conversions instead (assuming the program content it's delivering is not already at 1080i). This WILL avoid the 960 having any 1-2 second resolution change incidents, but you're also doing upconversion to 1080i subject to the quality of the video electronics in the xBox.

Your terminology isn't quite accurate..

"Composite" is YELLOW, and is a video cable one signal delivery grade better than the lowest 75ohm coax. It is a strictly old-fashioned analog video cable, capable of delivering 4:3 480i only. It is one step up from the lowest possible analog video quality 75-ohm RF coax), and one step below the next highest analog video quality source-to-TV cable connection of S-Video.

The red/white cable pair you refer to is actually the audio delivery system for L/R-stereo. Yes, it is typically a 3-cable yellow/red/white set, but the yellow cable is actually referred to as "composite" (as opposed to "coax" or "S-Video"). The red/white pair for audio is totally unrelated to the video cable other than by virtue of it's perhaps being part of a 3-wire cable.

If you use any form of old-fashioned 4:3 480i analog video cable (coax, composite, or S-video) to feed the 960, you will by definition NOT be seeing 16:9 nor will you be seeing HD (720p or 1080i). It is IMPOSSIBLE to see 16:9 720p/1080i HD content over an old analog 4:3 480i cable like this.

So the 960 will by definition have to be operating in 480i mode, when fed from such a cable. The numbered signal inputs you can use on the 960 will have to be 1-4, which support 4:3 480i composite/S-video and L/R-stereo audio only.

The 960 can be configured to display 4:3 480i source programs at "normal" 4:3 OAR (i.e. centered on the screen, with black bars on left and right of the 16:9 screen real estate). There will be no stretch-o-vision effect unless you yourself push the ZOOM button to cycle through various non-OAR presentation formats to enlarge the image on the screen. But if you don't want that, then 4:3 480i OAR is how the 960 can show your original 4:3 480i content fed from any source device over composite/S-Video.

Since all delivered source will by definition have to be at 480i, there will never be any "input lag" caused by resolution changing in the source programs from the Xbox, since via composite video cable only 480i is possible. There will and can never be a resolution change to trigger a 1-2 second hiccup.

But surely you're not buying a 960 to use strictly for 480i 4:3 content over composite/S-video are you? Or are you?

Anyway, despite its age the 960 is of course the "reference standard" for HD video quality (i.e. 16:9 and 720p/1080i). For optimal results you need to use component video or HDMI (delivered through its inputs 5-7) which is then where you'll really be pleased with your purchase (assuming a decent 960 user/service menu tweak/setup if required).

For maximum enjoyment and 960 performance, you want to connect all source devices to the 960 using either component video or HDMI (to allow full HD and 16:9 image). My own preference is to NOT do any up-converting in the source device, but to let the 960 go through its own picture optimization based on the "native" source program resolution (i.e. 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i) coming from the source device.