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Kenwood VRS-7100 vs. Panasonic SA-XR70S  

post #1 of 33
6/6/04 at 1:39pm
Thread Starter 
Many of us are eagerly awaiting Panasonic's releasing their replacement receiver for the SA-XR45S, the SA-XR70S. However, we don't know when that will be out. It could be anywhere between "anyday now" to October 2004.

Someone in another thread alerted us to Kenwood's digitally-amplified receiver, the VRS-7100 (Kenwood Fineline Gaming Audio/Video Receiver). How would you rate these receivers based on the make, listed features, and expected quality? This Kenwood digi-amp'ed receiver is now available from places such as J&R.

I don't know the Kenwood receiver's size and weight, nor the type of speaker input connectors it uses. I called J&R and the CSR didn't know either. I plan to ask someone from Kenwood early this week. If anyone else knows, please mention it here. Thanks.

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post #2 of 33
6/6/04 at 3:55pm
Thread Starter 
FWIW, this Kenwood receiver is ~$50 more expensive than this Panasonic receiver.

Also, there is a higher end version of the Kenwood digi-amp'ed receiver, VRS-N8100, which has a few more features, such as network connection. See this PDF for a comparison between the 2 Kenwood receivers (p. 17).
post #3 of 33
6/7/04 at 10:03am
Thread Starter 
I haven't been able to find out the dimenions or speaker input connectors yet for the Kenwood VRS-7100 receiver. How can J&R sell them and not even know that? I asked the CSR if he could open up a box and measure it, but he said that wouldn't be possible. WTF?! :mad:

I'll try calling Vann's next. Maybe their salesmen will be more knowledgable. :\\
post #4 of 33
6/10/04 at 9:14am
Thread Starter 
I called Vann's and J&R and neither were able to provide me with the size of this Kenwood receiver. :mad: WTF?! :confused:

One guy at Kenwood said that the VRS-7100 has spring clips in the back, but he didn't sound very confident. : \\
post #5 of 33
6/12/04 at 2:01pm
Thread Starter 
I feel like I'm talking to myself in this thread, LOL. :o

I called up a couple places and they said the VRS-7100 receiver will have spring clip speaker connectors, not banana plugs. :(
post #6 of 33
6/21/04 at 10:42pm
Thread Starter 
I just ordered the Kenwood VRS-7100 receiver. It should arrive by the end of the week. But b/c I had the receiver shipped straight to my parents' house (b/c it's for them), I won't get a chance to install and play w/ it until the Fourth of July weekend. I hope this receiver is superior to the Panasonic SA-XR50 and on par w/ the SA-XR70.
post #7 of 33
6/24/04 at 10:26am
Thanks beowulf7.

Please report back when you have time. I am also tired of waiting for the Panny 70. I am also concerned that the Panny will not have enough cojones to power my 4 ohm Maggies.

Seems like with digital, you either can buy an underpowered receiver or a multi-kilobuck separate amp. Not much in between.
post #8 of 33
6/24/04 at 12:20pm
I am also interested in your experience with the Kenwood. From looking at the specs, it doesnt seem to have a lot of imputs. Provide pics if you can!!!
post #9 of 33
6/24/04 at 7:08pm
Thread Starter 
Jane and digme, I received the UPS tracking # from J&R that the receiver is on its way. :D No matter when my parents receive it, the earliest I will be able to see it first-hand will be the July 4th holiday weekend. I'll take pics of the receiver and provide an initial review. I'm hoping my father and my brother (who still lives w/ my parents) play around w/ the receiver and let me know how it is. But I'll be the guy that does all the tweaking and customizing. ;)

I did find out from Kenwood, about 2.5 weeks after I e-mailed them, that the receiver has spring clip connectors :( and will the W x D x H dimensions, in inches, are approximately 17.5 x 14.9 x 3.3.

Since it has the spring clip connectors and since we have fat 12-ga speaker wires, I'm thinking we'll need one of those "flex-pin" connectors to help connect the speakers to the receiver.
post #10 of 33
6/25/04 at 11:09am
I just read about the Kenwood N8100 on Gizmodo.com, and did a little searching on Kenwood's site, look at this:

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/pr...productId=2608

I think this is going to be significantly more expensive than the Panasonic receviers, but it sure sounds nice - banana plugs for front speakers.
post #11 of 33
6/25/04 at 11:31am
Actually, the 7100 has the exact same specs as the 8100 as far as audio....the important part....goes.

Notice that the 130 rms is rated into 6ohms which seems to be a new trend whith digital direct receivers from Panasonic.JVC, Kenwood,Shewood Newcastle.

I have one of the "available soon" Jvc digital direct receivers on order from J@R and also plan on checking out the Kenwood 7100 to see which model is the best canidate for mods.

Other canidates are the xr 45 and H/K dpr2005.
post #12 of 33
6/25/04 at 7:02pm
Seems like with digital, you either can buy an underpowered receiver or a multi-kilobuck separate amp. Not much in between.
Jane: You might consider auditioning the H/K DPR 2005 or the 1005. They are now out. J&R is selling them for $1299 and $999.
post #13 of 33
6/25/04 at 8:09pm
Thread Starter 
gregjl, that 8100 receiver is pretty nice. But like you said, the main guts of it is the same as the 7100. Here is a press release that compares the 2 receivers. Basically, the 8100 gets network (file streaming) and PCMCIA features, along w/ gold-plated banana plug terminals and probably a few more minor features.

Earz, you have quite a range in your budget for your receiver! The SA-XR45 (if you can find one) goes for $300. Its replacement, the SA-XR70, will sell for about $350 once it's released. The DPR2005 is well over a grand. If you like H/K a lot, maybe you can try to get the DPR1001, which sells for below $500 these days (new).

Ben, I briefly had the SA-XR45 receiver and it was not underpowered. I only returned it b/c the 6th channel (rear center surround) was very hissy.
post #14 of 33
6/25/04 at 9:24pm
Dang Beowulf, I figured you'd hold off until the XR 70 came. I know the waiting game sux though. I'm interested in hearing your review. And, I agree regarding the power on these bad boys. They are not under-powered.
post #15 of 33
6/25/04 at 9:33pm
[quote]Originally posted by beowulf7
[b]gregjl, that 8100 receiver is pretty nice. But like you said, the main guts of it is the same as the 7100. Here is a press release that compares the 2 receivers. Basically, the 8100 gets network (file streaming) and PCMCIA features, along w/ gold-plated banana plug terminals and probably a few more minor features.

Earz, you have quite a range in your budget for your receiver! The SA-XR45 (if you can find one) goes for $300. Its replacement, the SA-XR70, will sell for about $350 once it's released. The DPR2005 is well over a grand. If you like H/K a lot, maybe you can try to get the DPR1001, which sells for below $500 these days (new).

I already have a 45 and 25 and already tried one 2005 that was sent back packing.
The 45 sounded cleaner and more detailed and the 2005 had a more laid back soundstage, which I liked.
I am looking at another 2005 as to make sure mine was not defective.
It could not output an upsampled 192hz signal from my 963sa and also made a few nasty sounding buzzing sounds in my right front speaker at times.
Whith a couple of positive reveiws of the 2005 on this site, I want to make sure it was not defective from the factory.

When it comes to digital direct, I am willing to try as many as I can get my hands on whitout regard to brand names or price.
I wanted the 2005 to work out because of its higher power rating which is even more reason to try another.

Actually, I have seen wanted adds at A-gon offering more than list for the 45 used.....so there more likely to be more than 300.00 if you can find one.
I have also seen people post threads asking to buy one on several forums for more than 300.00.
Most of these people , want a 45 for mods.
post #16 of 33
6/26/04 at 8:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by rcmoto
Dang Beowulf, I figured you'd hold off until the XR 70 came. I know the waiting game sux though. I'm interested in hearing your review. And, I agree regarding the power on these bad boys. They are not under-powered.
Believe me, I really wanted to go w/ the Panasonic. I was ready to get the XR50, too. But then this Kenwood came out that seemed to have some good features. Too bad there are no reviews, so I'm buying this on faith and specs - something most people wouldn't recommend. But I felt bad for my family who've had speakers and cabling since Jan. but no receiver since we sent it back after the Super Bowl. :o

I got scared when Panasonic also told me (as they told a couple others on this forum) that the XR70 isn't due to be released until Oct.! :eek: My parents should've received the 7100 yesterday. But UPS screwed up the shipping. (My parents also live in NJ and the receiver was being sent from NY). But UPS sent the package from NY to NJ and then back to NY for no reason. I now see via UPS Tracking that it is in a UPS facility in NJ, so delivery should be made on Mon.) I look forward to spending the 4th of July weekend playing w/ that receiver. I hope it works well and that I can end ReceiverGate. : \\

BTW, I got the Kenwood VRS-7100 receiver for in the low $300s, which is quite a bit cheaper than the $500 MSRP. :D
post #17 of 33
6/26/04 at 8:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Earz
I already have a 45 and 25 and already tried one 2005 that was sent back packing.
The 45 sounded cleaner and more detailed and the 2005 had a more laid back soundstage, which I liked.
I am looking at another 2005 as to make sure mine was not defective.
It could not output an upsampled 192hz signal from my 963sa and also made a few nasty sounding buzzing sounds in my right front speaker at times.
Whith a couple of positive reveiws of the 2005 on this site, I want to make sure it was not defective from the factory.

When it comes to digital direct, I am willing to try as many as I can get my hands on whitout regard to brand names or price.
I wanted the 2005 to work out because of its higher power rating which is even more reason to try another.

Actually, I have seen wanted adds at A-gon offering more than list for the 45 used.....so there more likely to be more than 300.00 if you can find one.
I have also seen people post threads asking to buy one on several forums for more than 300.00.
Most of these people , want a 45 for mods. [/b]
I thought the DPR2005 would've blown all the other receivers out by far. H/K is a very good company and the DPR2005 is supposed to be more powerful and cleaner than the 1005, which is supposed to be more powerful and cleaner than the 1001. :confused: I think it was a defective receiver, just like the XR45 we had.

I would not spend $300 for a used XR45. That's crazy! :eek: I'd recommend getting the XR50 for $250. Or if you have the patience, want DPLIIx, HDMI, and a better amp, wait until July through Oct. and get the XR70 for $350. Good luck.

Oh, it's good to know that JVC is also joining the digi-amp'ed receiver party. Have you heard much about the unit you mentioned in your previous post (model #, specs, etc.)?
post #18 of 33
6/26/04 at 8:50am
beowulf, I am not spending any money on the 25 or 45 as I already had them both.

The JVC model is RX-F10 and is rumored to have tri path chip that is used in Bel Canto amps but I would not be suprised if it does not.
I have this one on pre-order.
There is another JVC that is available at some Costcos JVC RX-ES1SL also and they both weigh around 14 lbs and spec about like the Panys.

The JVC RX-F10 is 400.00 at J&R and the RX-ES1S sells for around 199.00 at some Costco's.

The 2005's amp is made by www.d2audio.com and actually specs much better on there site, than when implemented in the 2005.

Remember the first H/K digital receiver was compared to a 45 at Audio Asylum and the Pany was the sonic winner.

The only two owner reveiws of the 2005 I have seen, the two owners have speakers that the Pany 45 could not drive.

So I am the only one who has compared them whith highly revealing speakers that could be driven by the Pany.
I am waiting on H/K tech to get back whith me as to why the 2005 would not correctly read and output a 192hz upsampled signal.

If they tell me it should, then I will have a good idea as to whether mine was defective.

In any case, whichever digital direct receiver sounds best,I will have modified regardless.

There are also digital direct receivers by Sherwoods Newcastle division as well as rumours of Philips,Pioneer,Denon ect in the pipeline.
post #19 of 33
6/28/04 at 9:42am
Thread Starter 
Earz, I meant to make a general comment about the XR45 that no one should pay more than $300 for it, esp. if it's used. You'll have a nice collection of digi-amp'ed receivers once you find a replacement for the DPR 2005 (even if you get another DPR). ;)

BTW, my father e-mailed me to confirm that the VRS-7100 receiver just arrived. I'll ask him to take pics and e-mail them to me, but if he doesn't, I'll take them next weekend and then eventually post pics here or in another thread. :D
post #20 of 33
6/29/04 at 11:07am
Wow, let us know what you find out about the JVC RX-F10 and RX-ES1SL.
post #21 of 33
6/29/04 at 12:32pm
I picked up a JVC RX-ES1SL at Costco ($199). It sounds much better than a Pioneer D509S it replaced in my upstairs system - much cleaner and more open. I have a Panny XR-50 in another room, but I have not yet had the opportunity to compare them. (I do suspect the Panny sounds better.) The JVC does not, however, have 24/96 capabilities, so it's digital section may not be as advanced as the Panny. When and if I get a chance to directly compare the JVC and the Panny, I'll do another post.
By the way, Fry's here in San Diego has the Kenwood VRS-7100 receiver, but for $500. I have not listened to it, but it is 24/96 capable.
post #22 of 33
6/29/04 at 2:38pm
I did a search and found the manual for the ES1SL. The spec says 10% distortion in stereo mode! although it is .8% in surround mode, the stereo spec is very high. Is this a misprint?

Dick
post #23 of 33
6/29/04 at 7:21pm
Thread Starter 
Michaelm, $500 for that Kenwood receiver is a rip-off. J&R lists it for $400 but you can get for much less than that if you order via the phone.
post #24 of 33
6/29/04 at 8:05pm
Still haven't listened to the Kenwood VRS-7100, but I may do so soon. This afternoon I did compare the JVC Costco special with the Panasonic XR-50. The source is a Pioneer Elite DV-45A, the speakers are Linn Katans with a Tannoy subwoofer. I only listened in stereo mode, and to just a couple of CDs: Steely Dan's latest and an audiophile production of John Previti (acoustic jazz) on the Mapleshade label - vibes, piano, vocals, guitar, bass and drums. The latter is an excellent acid test disc for musicality. Also, I did not play either at extremely high levels. Both the JVC and the Panasonic sounded very good considering the cost ($200 - $300). The JVC actually had a richer lower midrange, which made male voices sound quite nice. It was smooth and relatively neutral. The Panasonic was more open and detailed in general, especially in the upper half of the register. It also sounded a little more focussed. In comparison to the JVC, it was a little leaner, but not bright (at least with my Linn speakers). No glare, grain or hash in either. Really amazing given the low price of these digital units. (By the way, both sounded better than a Pioneer Elite 41, a decent traditional analogue design unit.)
I'm keeping the XR-50 for my little bedroom HT system, while the JVC will be used with my little computer surround system.
post #25 of 33
6/29/04 at 8:38pm
Thread Starter 
Michaelm, thanks for the review. I wonder how those 2 receivers would stack up against this Kenwood receiver. :confused:
post #26 of 33
6/29/04 at 10:09pm
Guys, FWIW, Pioneer has been indeed shipping a digital receiver for a while already, I guess since last year. The receiver is VSX50, it is not sold separately but as part of the combo with a universal player Pioneer Elite DV50A. I have this combo in my secondary setup. In another post a couple of months ago I tried to compare this digital Pio to my trusted Denon AVR3803 (in my primary setup). While I still preferred the Denon, PIo VSX50 performed very close to it. Very clean sound, punchy, interesting feature set including famous Pioneer MCACC auto calibration system.
Since we are building a list of receivers here I thought this Pio should be added to the list. I got a problem with the MSRP though: there is no separate MSRP for this receiver, just a combo MSRP ($850) which is surely outdated by today's pricing on digital receivers/components. Also, I do not know which technology is used in this receiver (TriPath or Equibit or anything else ...).
Here is the link to the official web site: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...046358,00.html
LL
post #27 of 33
7/13/04 at 8:03am
What type of speaker connection does the kenwood has? If it is spring clip
does anybody know the size of pins that will fit in?
post #28 of 33
7/13/04 at 10:06am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Alex solomon
What type of speaker connection does the kenwood has? If it is spring clip
does anybody know the size of pins that will fit in?
They are cheap spring clips. :(

If you want to wait a while and have a bigger budget, I think the Kenwood VRS-N8100 will have banana plug speaker connectors.

The spring clips barely accommodate 12-ga. wire, and even then, it's a very delicate connection. 14-ga. is probably more reasonable. I'm currently looking at getting a "flex pin" (a.k.a. "flex-pin") adapter.
post #29 of 33
9/2/04 at 12:36pm
Beowulf,

Did you do a comparison of the VRS-7100 and the SA-XR50?
post #30 of 33
9/3/04 at 7:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Grayson73
Beowulf,

Did you do a comparison of the VRS-7100 and the SA-XR50?
No, b/c we never bought a SA-XR50 receiver. Way back in Jan., we had the SA-XR45, but we returned that by the end of that month b/c the 6th channel didn't work. Now we have the VRS-7100 which works fine. But there was too much separation in time (Jan vs. July) to be able to compare those two receivers.

I'm looking forward to others' review of the Kenwood and Panasonic receivers once more and more people start buying them. Rumor has it that the Panasonic SA-XR70 will be released by months' end. :)
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