List of Digital Home Theater Receivers - Page 51

Any new news?

Yeah... Kid Red doesn't really know about the things he's posting about but does anyway.

Sorry but if you are going to post about something to inform other people you should probably have more than some very loose understanding of the subject.
That doesn't do anyone any good to pass on bad info.

Yes Class D doesn't in itself mean 'digital' but the Pannys are class D. They're 'digital Class D' as opposed to 'analog class D'. Try a search to learn more about the diffs.
Search 'switching amps'.
Search 'equibit' which is the powerDAC (amp) that is in the Pannys.

"-Most midrange multichannel amps are AB which is clean but runs hot so they are huge with heatsinks and very inefficient. Class D is used mostly for subs because they are more powerful and don't run as hot but produce distortion. So AB for mids/highs, D for subs.-"

That's the sort of thing someone just learning about what's going on in the state of amps might have said several years ago.
The technolgy and facts out there are far beyond what you're saying.

There are a lot of class D amps that are all different. Most are analog switching amps but some are pure digital like the Panny or Sony or Sharp which are all diff designs too.

And now that you've been told the Pannys are class D does that mean you no longer want news about them?
Ever hear one? There are reasons people keep talking about them.

Of those 3 Outlaw will probably give you the best bang for your buck.

Personally I'd try some Class D or Class T amps first...

Well other then your attitude, I think we need to clear something up. First, you are or seem to be, confusing some of my car audio statements with home audio.

Class D amps for car audio are what Is aid and are mostly for subs. If that's changed then it's something new but this has nothing to do with home audio as I do not know anything about digital home audio amps. THus my 'any new news?' question because I'm looking for 'any new news concerning the release or specs of the XR57' as it sounds interesting to me. So you can do something with your attitude because you absolutely read my comment wrong.

Why would I not want any more news about the Panny? I guess the fact that I asked about news on the Panny digital amps escaped your comprehension?

So next time, before jumping down someone and being a jerk, why not clarify your or their position? We're talking about two different things here buddy (car and home audio) and there's no need to be a jerk.

the problem is your second paragraph

looks like it's about home audio instead of car audio. at least me and azryan thought you had moved from the first para. Anyhow even if it was describing car audio, its the same for home audio (A/AB runs hot and needs huge heatsinks)

I don't know if its still true for car audio, but class-D for home audio has come a long long way from "AB for mids/highs, D for subs" thinking. (I meant technology-wise. Some people still think that way but the technology is beyond that)

it might be a good idea to read the first page of this thread (from mid-04!) and also take a peek @ the stereo class-D/PWM listing

SiriuslyCold- My paragraph was in response to a question about car amps that also contained a link to a car audio page on crutchfeild.com spelling about Class differences in car amps. THe post was asking about the comparison to car audio and home audio class D amps assuming the 'D' meant BOTH car and home amps were digital. I simply replied to his audio statement that class D is for subs, and that the D does not stand for digital. I never commented on home audio and don't know much about digital home audio amps which is why I'm asking 'any news news' on this Panny digital amp because I'd like to learn more.

Then I get attacked for it. It's cool, it's just azryan's incorrect assumption and brash attack on me is what's flawed about web forums. Rather then reply in a civil manner, he attacks when he's not even justified in his attacking.

So, no new news on the Panny I take it? I really, honestly and sincerely want to know more about this home audio Class D (digital) amp as I want the HDMI switching and like the price factor.

the XR57 does not have HDMI switching, it seems from the manual - only one HDMI in and out.

There is a long thread about the outgoing XR55 with a lot of discussion about the TI PurePath (or Equibit) digital amplification inside these units (somewhere around page 60 or so...)

You're right the D in class-D does not mean 'digital', but I agree with azryan - class D is not only for subs anymore - be it home audio or car audio. At least not since 1999 when the TacT Millennium was rated one of the best sounding amplifiers (same Equibit technology as the Panasonics). Last year nuForce was chosen as the amplifier of the year by The Absolute Sound magazine. And if you check out my class-D amps list you'll notice even Cary Audio - a traditionally tube shop - has a class-D amp.

Hey, check this out --- Sony STR-DG800 av receiver --- under $400

Quick Take: The Sony STR-DG800 is the most affordable A/V receiver in the company's 2006 product line to include HDMI connectivity options. In addition to its HDMI pass-through capability, the two-zone 7.1-channel receiver offers 110 watts of power per channel. It features an automatic speaker-setup program to assist with proper speaker placement and optimizing sound quality. The STR-DG800 also includes a so-called Portable Audio Enhancer function that utilizes a digital signal processor designed to improve the sound quality of any attached MP3 player. Furthermore, it's XM-ready, which means that it can receive XM radio (with a subscription) by attaching an XM Connect-and-Play antenna. A total of five A/V inputs and two outputs plus three audio-only inputs round out the Sony STR-DG800's jack pack.

what do you think?

Kid Red,

I didn't want you passing on a really uninformed report on Class D and what it means cuz you wrote -I don't think the Panny has class D because the Panny is digital right and I don't think class D is digital.-


Instead of calling me a jerk over and over and pretty much totally over-reacting... you might want to actually take my advice I gave to you and RESEARCH the subjects of switching amps.

My assumption' that you had moved off of car audio and back on the thread's topic was because your comments could relate to either and you're SUPPOSE to stay on topic.

So your excuse is to shout that you were still off-topic? Smart.

Also you talking about multichannel amps' implied you were back on topic of HOME audio recs too.

-THus my 'any new news?' question because I'm looking for 'any new news concerning the release or specs of the XR57' as it sounds interesting to me.-

I asked if you were still interested because I'd JUST informed you in the same post that the Pannys are Class D -which you'd just talked down but wrongly thought the Pannys aren't Class D.


-So you can do something with your attitude because you absolutely read my comment wrong.-

Oh man. You lay it on thick Kid.

-We're talking about two different things here buddy (car and home audio) and there's no need to be a jerk.-

Kid... the TOPIC is about HOME audio Recs.
YOU asked for news about the Panny HOME audio Recs.

You have the nerve to call me a jerk over and over and claim you're talking about CAR audio while asking about the HOME audio Panny??

-I never commented on home audio and don't know much about digital home audio amps which is why I'm asking 'any news news' on this Panny digital amp because I'd like to learn more.-

Like SiriuslyCold explained before you wrote this... your comments on amps relate to home audio just the same as car audio.
You didn't know it but you were commenting on both car and home audio.

This relates to my saying you should leard about what you're talking about before you decide you're the one to answer someone else's questions.

-Then I get attacked for it.-

You didn't get attacked. You're exaggerating. You were passing out bad info and I wanted you to stop. That's as civil as bad info deserves and it's not an attack.

-It's cool, it's just azryan's incorrect assumption and brash attack on me is what's flawed about web forums.-

See... I was thinking that people passing on uninformed information to others was the problem.

-Rather then reply in a civil manner, he attacks when he's not even justified in his attacking.-

How many times can you call me a jerk and reword that I ATTACKED you?

-So, no new news on the Panny I take it?-

In my first post to you I told you several things to RESEARCH like 'switching amps' and specifically the 'Equibit chips' in the Pannys -which would then teach you something NEW to you about them.

Then SiriuslyCold told you to do the same type of research. You STILL didn't.

This is not a digital amp Rec.
This doesn't belong in this thread.

Sony has digital amp Recs (S-Master Pro 1-bit powerDACs) and this isn't one of them.

If you want to actually go listen to this Rec and then you think it sounds great (few seem to be impressed with low end Sony Rec.) and works great, then come back to AVS and post about it in the Amp, Rec, Pre/Pro forum.

Just don't post it in THIS thread.

And god... please don't take this as an attack like Kid Red did ok?
Just try to pay attention to the threads you're posting in and you won't send threads off topic.

then give me a hint, kind sir, as to which thread to put it under.
Thanks

Todd Winters

you can open a new thread about it if you can't find one it's kinda neat - if i am not mistaken - because its one of the first Sony models to have auto setup. Also the model designation implies Sony have been listening to people (rightly, it seems) diss their DE~ line. For more in-depth discussion on Sony receivers www.agoraquest.com is the place I think


Kid Red

(TNT-Audio)

Any opinion on the Sony STR-DA3100ES/B receiver?

iirc its not using the S-Master digital either... with the x100ES series, only the top two models 7100ES and 9100ES are digital.

I know SiriuslyCold just answered this, but I just wanted to point out the fact that I actually SAID where you should post it in my post BEFORE you asked where then you should post it.


AGAIN... this is NOT a digital Receiver. This just like Todd's question do NOT belong in this thread.

The ONLY diff here is that Sony was very confusing with their ES models. They used to be digital drive S-Master Pro amps and now just one (maybe two are)... so I'll talk about those in case rlmfswingle thinks that's what the Rec he mentioned is.

Also you should be more specific next time. The more exacting the question the better/more helpful an answer you'll usually get.
'What do you think' is as broad as it gets.

Sony's S-Master Recs have already been talked about on AVS for a few years now too so you'd have gotten lots of info if you'd have done a search instead.

They recalled some of their first ES models for bad hissing and other things.

I personally owned one and returned it before they were ever recalled 'cuz I had these problems.

I liked the midrange a lot and the bass seemed strong and controlled (a typical attribute of most analog and digital class D) but the top end was screwed up with hiss and something 'stabbing' going on up there.
Clearly rushed/bad engineering.

They are also build like mid/low end crap. 'High end 'ES' line? They're liars.

Only the faceplates are really nice -I'm sure you can guess why that is.
As typical too.... the remote stinks.

You'll have to look up more about what Sony's doing with their S-Master Pro digital amps (powerDACs) right now (if anything) but I think most of their ES line is back to being solid state like the model you asked about.

They brought out a 7100ES model though that does still have their digital amps.

Even that's not too new anymore and can be found for pretty cheap.

Not sure if they still have their first top of the line digital 9000 model out anymore and haven't heard that there are any new digital amp models on the way.

I really wanted 'em to fix this design and come out with something new with HDMI full multichan PCM input but seems like they're hold off or just not going to do it.

There's clearly a much bigger story behind all this mess with Sony's digital amps but I'm sure Sony won't be telling it.

[quote=azryan]Kid Red,

I didn't want you passing on a really uninformed report on Class D and what it means cuz you wrote -I don't think the Panny has class D because the Panny is digital right and I don't think class D is digital.-
[\\QUOTE]

Unimformed? Class D in car audio is NOT digital. Where's the problem?


Well sir, then you need to search more because in car audio you either have a mono sub or a 'multichannel' amp for fronts and rears both left and right. Off topic? I was replying to a post about car audio. I mean come now, you read the post, you assumed home audio, I cleared it up that is was car audio in response to a car audio post and I'm off topic? I'm not sure how to keep explaining that you 'assumed' incorrectly and I never 'implied' anything.


You asked in a smart aleck manner before I could even have a chance to respond to your first post? I can JUST inform you something and quickly hit reply that you didn't follow my suggestion also. I NEVER talked down the Panny and I can't for the life of me understand where you are arriving at this completely opposite conclusion!! I am in this darn thread to absolutely learn more about the Panny because Iw ant to buy it!!! I didn't search because I'm interested in info on the Panny and didn't have time to learn about the technology at that time!


The topic on MY post was in response to a car audio question about Class D amps and that the D might mean digital. I say no, D isn't for digital at least not in car audio.


Yea, because your tone and mannerism were that of a jerk. And the class D statement not meaning digital and in car audio is mostly for subs, has zero to do with the Panny questions I asked separately. I can't understand why you are still confused about this as I've tried to clear up your confusion. It's mostly likely because the post I replied to was comparing car audio tech to home audio tech and while in some cases they may be similar I know class D in car audio the D does not stand for digital and the Panny home amp is digital so I assume that to mean the Panny is not a class D amp. It very well may be, I don't know, which is why I'm in this thread. So yes, I spoke about car audio because it was relevant to the Panny being digital and then I asked about any more news on the Panny. What's the issue that you have with that?


The question was car audio based, my answer was car audio based so I know what I'm talking about. THere may be similarities between home and car audio amps but that doesn't mean I 'need to learn what I'm talking about' because my car audio information was accurate.


Sorry but this is an attack-

That's an attack on my character, my intentions to purposely mislead and my intelligence. Definition, attack.


No the problem is your assuming one thing and being rude about calling them out as uninformed. Simply say whatever info I stated is wrong and this is right. Rather then try and uncover the spreader of disinformation as some virus post or something. Or ask me to clarify my point as you were obviously confused as to my comments.


As many times as you continue to speak down to someone when you disagree with their post.


And? I haven't had a chance to and I fail to see how that will offer any new information on the release of the Panny, cost, specs/inputs, etc? I will research it when I have free time to take it all in.

See, take these two sentences out of your post and it goes from being a egomaniac know it all knee jerk type of crap we don't need to a very well informed and very technically detailed and truly enlightening posts. Obviously the poster did NOT know the Sony wasn't digital and wanted 'opinions' not smart aleck responses or clarification like SiriuslyCold maturely and calmly informed him in his post. Simply chill with the attitude and the 'moderator it doesn't belong here attitude' and those of us not in the know could actually learn a great deal from you obvious knowledge of the subject.

Sorry, back on topic before you get mad again. I'll try and do some searches today.

SiriuslyCold- So the XR57 will only have 1 HDMI out? So I'd have to then think about a HDMI switcher?

As for the Class D issue, let me clear this up so you don't get the wrong idea either, my 'class D is mostly for subs' is and was strictly a car audio question and in no way should be construed to mean home audio amps that are class D would somehow be unclean or inferior to any other class amp. I won't pretend I know enough about 'home' audio amps to infer which class is better. There's just a generalization, of course it does not apply to all car audio amp makers, but A and AB for highs and D for your sub. That's not me, that's just anything and everything you'll see and hear in general concerning car audio amps. However, that obviously does not always hold true and I would hate for someone to think I am misinforming anyone and I want it to be know I am solely speaking of car audio in an off topic manner for which I apologize.

I have a Marantz 7900e and I have no idea what class home audio amp it is, I just know it's huge and heavy and has excellent sound quality. However, I'd love to move to a smaller digital amp that's half the price, sounds just as good and has HDMI and read excellent reviews and post on the Panny 55 and have high hopes for the 57.

the 1 HDMI out is not the problem. the single HDMI in might be, if you have more than 1 HDMI source. however HDMI being somewhat still evolving technology could mean that an easily replaced external switch might be the best bet currently

for more XR57 discussion, let's go here, or if you really need HDMI switching in a class-D receiver right this moment, JVC has a couple of models (D401/402, D702)

re: Marantz, AFAIK they don't have any class-D powered receivers.

Yea, I have cable box (DVI) but will be getting a HD DVR (HDMI) and will eventually get a HDMI DVD or HD-DVD player. So at the least, I'll have two HDMI components. You think that a switch is the best answer since HDMI 1.3 may come out next year or so and it's so early in the game to settle on one version?

I don't need a class D in particular or anything really unless you mean D as in digital As for the JVC's, I've read they are hybrid digital and aren't as clean (or similar knock) or good as the Panny is regarded. I think I'm waiting for the 57 to hit the streets. I checked out that 57 thread you linked, figured I'd also check this thread. I'll start posting in that one as it's more specific to my needs. Thanks for all the info

hey, I wasn't the one who mentioned wanting to move to a "smaller digital amp"

so, while the "D" in class-D does not stand for digital, for all intents and purposes of this particular thread that everyone is aware of here, a digital amp refers to receivers with some form of {class-D, class-T, class-Z, plain old PWM, or any derivative thereof} amplification, and not receivers with digital decoding and analog ss amplification.

So if you meant the latter then look in other threads; but the Panasonics XR57 that you are keen on is a digital (TI Equibit) amplifier.

What's with Panasonic? No XR-55s available anywhere (thank heavens I snagged a brand new one on ebay) and XR-57s are nowhere in sight.

Does Panasonic even know how popular their digital amps are? The Panasonic management is blind.

Kharvel,

I think Panasonic is facing a delay from manufacturing production. The XR57 had a scheduled release of April, but got pushed back for uknown reasons. A similar situation happened when Panasonic transitioned from the XR45/25 to the XR50/70 series. There was a month or two where you couldn't order the XR50/70, and you could only get the XR45/25 from stores with overstock inventory.

What happened to Grayson73 ? His original post was last edited on 10-21-04.

I'd sure like to see an up-to-date list. OTOH, if the OP isn't going to get updated any more, I don't think this should be a sticky thread.

(I just realized I should send a PM to Grayson73 as well. So I did.)

Sometimes moderators can add info to the OP, maybe contact them and see if you can update the OP.

7.1 AV Receivers

JVC
D301/D302
D401/D402
D701/D702 (Hybrid)

Panasonic
SA-XR55
SA-XR57 (TI PurePath)
SA-XR700

Sony
STR-DA7001ES
STR-DA9001ES

5.1 DVD-Receivers
Naim n-Vi (Tripath)

2.1 DVD-Receivers
Marantz Opsodis ES-150 (D2Audio)

Are you there is a JVC 702, which presumably would be the silver version? I don't see such a model on the JVC web site.

i think the naming convention ofr JVC is Dx01 (Silver) and Dx02 (black)

so, D701 is silver and D702 is black

TI also call their Equibit technology PurePath and applies to both XR55 and 57. the XR700 was added later. I don't think there'll be any differences between the two sonically, unless they are using different PWM chips and TI has new and improved ones in the XR57