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Salt Lake City, UT - HDTV - Page 58

post #1711 of 3656
11/1/06 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

-Does KUSG broadcast in HD? It appears they do have a digital channel operating. Also is this station a 100% repeater of the CBS station in Salt Lake or does it have it's own local news and commercials?

Yes, they are in HD.
It is a VHF frequency, channel 9.
Analog is on channel 12.

It is a mirror of KUTV in Salt Lake, the CBS affiliate.


Jerry
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post #1712 of 3656
11/2/06 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

Most of the equipment is already here. The landlord is now very happy. I think we are just waiting for the FCC to issue the CPs (Construction Permits), which may happen in the next weeks/months. I believe there is at least one Mutually Exclusive channel application up there, so it has to be worked out or auctioned.

Mostly, I would be concerned with the winter weather and road conditions. They will probably determine the actual construction schedule.

Thank you for the update.
Oddly enough, I hadn't thought about weather.
I know that the road up to Signal Hill (Idaho side of the valley) is downright treacherous once the snows hit and I can't imagine that the site for the the Southern valley is much better.
Guess I'll be waiting 'til Spring.
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post #1713 of 3656
11/3/06 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

Quarry Mountain is Park City, proper. Lewis Peak is a relay site, feeding most of eastern Utah.

Heber City and the Heber/Midway area have applications for eight DTV LD stations, 26, 29, 40, 42, 44, 46, 48, and 50. I didn't check for any conflicting applications. If there are none on any particular channel, all might be granted in the coming months. I would guess they might be on-line next spring/early summer, depending on weather and road conditions.

Does anyone know why KTVX is not offered by Dish in HD?!? Will it be offered soon?

If I read the above quote correctly it sounds like the heber valley will have HD OTA next spring/summer. If so does anyone know which channels will be offered OTA? Thanks.
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post #1714 of 3656
11/3/06 at 1:31pm
KTVX is available on Dish Network and DirecTV. You have to have an MPEG4 receiver and be able put up with the quirks of MPEG4 but ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX are available.

OTA is your best bet if you can get it.
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post #1715 of 3656
11/3/06 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike greer View Post

KTVX is available on Dish Network and DirecTV. You have to have an MPEG4 receiver and be able put up with the quirks of MPEG4 but ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX are available.

OTA is your best bet if you can get it.

KTVX is available only in SD on Dish and it has been that way since Dish went live with their HD locals. I have two Mpeg 4 receivers. I cannot get HD OTA in Midway. I had a lengthy e-mail chain with the KTVX VP/General Manager (David D'Antuono) back when the SLC locals went live six months ago asking him when their HD content would be available on Dish. At that time he believed that the issue with allowing Dish to retransmit their HD content would be resolved shortly. KTVX was seeking additional compensation from Dish. Months later KTVX is still not being retransmitted in HD on Dish. I am just hoping someone has more recent insight than my mine.
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post #1716 of 3656
11/4/06 at 8:18am
Although there used to be as many as five or six analog "hops" to get to the more remote translators, many of the analog translators are now being fed by DTV inputs. So, I think in most cases, the analog is down to about one or two links. It should look pretty good.
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post #1717 of 3656
11/4/06 at 12:55pm
Rumor floating around one of the sports boards/forums that some people are seeing a signal for 99-30 "the mtn". Theorizing that the new Mountain West Conference television station, the mtn, is going to show up on USDTV when they get back in business.

I scanned with my receiver and nothing came up. Has anyone done a scan to see if there is a 99-30 out there?

Thanks in advance.
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post #1718 of 3656
11/4/06 at 8:26pm
Nevermind. I went over and checked on someones USDTV receiver . . . there is a new station "mtn" not broadcasting yet.
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post #1719 of 3656
11/5/06 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvorkink View Post

KTVX is available only in SD on Dish and it has been that way since Dish went live with their HD locals. I have two Mpeg 4 receivers. I cannot get HD OTA in Midway. I had a lengthy e-mail chain with the KTVX VP/General Manager (David D'Antuono) back when the SLC locals went live six months ago asking him when their HD content would be available on Dish. At that time he believed that the issue with allowing Dish to retransmit their HD content would be resolved shortly. KTVX was seeking additional compensation from Dish. Months later KTVX is still not being retransmitted in HD on Dish. I am just hoping someone has more recent insight than my mine.


Sorry! It never occurred to me that they would add a 2nd SD for KTVX and put it along side of the others that are HD.

What a joke - It looks like Dish Network is using DirecTV marketing tricks.

I guess I'm lucky - I removed Dish Network's crap MPEG4 feeds from my lists because I can get them OTA.

My apologies again - I shouldn't have assumed Dish Network wouldn't waste their time with a 2nd SD feed.
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post #1720 of 3656
11/6/06 at 6:43am
I just knew there'd be a use for that 8PSK decoder board for the Tektronix MPEG analyzer! Wonder what else the sat guys are up to?
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post #1721 of 3656
11/6/06 at 8:59am
OK, looking for some suggestions to improve reception. I currently have a directional UHF/VHF antenna in my attic. Its your standard home depot $60 TV antenna.

The issues:

Problem . . I am in Sandy (11800 South, 1500east, ~ 20 miles from towers), and the towers are about 10 degrees apart. I currently split the 2, but often 7-2, or 2-1, or 13-2 will drop off.

Bigger problem . . . my antenna is in my attic, my house has aluminum siding on the west side of the house :-S

I climb up into the attic and change the direction of the antenna depending on which station is most important that week/day. I get about 80% reception on some stations, and 30-40% on others. Sometimes 7-2 will bounce between nothing and 50% if I am not pointed in the exact direction of the tower.

I would prefer to leave my antenna in the attic and avoid the grounding issues and unsightlyness of a roof mount. I tried the silver sensor, and it worked OK, but same directional issue, I would have to manually move it between the 2 towers.

Any suggestions on an antenna that would work well in the attic AND pick up the 10 degree difference in the location of the towers?
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post #1722 of 3656
11/6/06 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike greer View Post

Sorry! It never occurred to me that they would add a 2nd SD for KTVX and put it along side of the others that are HD.

What a joke - It looks like Dish Network is using DirecTV marketing tricks.

I guess I'm lucky - I removed Dish Network's crap MPEG4 feeds from my lists because I can get them OTA.

My apologies again - I shouldn't have assumed Dish Network wouldn't waste their time with a 2nd SD feed.

No apology necessary. I appreciate the response. The HD channels show up in two places on Dish for me 002, 004(SD only), 005 and 013 as well as something like 6372, 6375 and 6383. The SD feed for KTVX shows up in one place where HD locals can be accessed and not the other. Cest la Vie. A few Questions for the board:

1. Has anyone heard any news about KTVX and their HD retransmission dispute with Dish?

2. Does anyone know what channels will be offered OTA HD for Heber Valley assuming the current applications are approved?

Thanks.
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post #1723 of 3656
11/7/06 at 6:41am
"2. Does anyone know what channels will be offered OTA HD for Heber Valley assuming the current applications are approved?"

Probably all of the stations that are currently available in analog at that site. (I'm thinking you mean OTA DTV, not specifically HD. They will be whatever they are sending in SLC).
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post #1724 of 3656
11/7/06 at 11:39am
Overall I'm very satisfied with my Pearl but I have some questions on what to expect with black levels in general.

I set up 120" screen on the wall with Goo Systems CRT white. The room is completely dark. The colors are satisfyingly rich, mostly bright scenes are voluptuous, and dark space scenes appear to have a lot of dark detail. I've been using the contrast/brightness settings recommended many pages back.

The one thing that does bother me, and this is where "expectation" comes in is when you have a mostly bright scene, or greater than 50% bright, and it appears that I loose a lot of dark detail. This is mostly noticeable, for example, on actors with black or dark hair, in a scene with a lot of white. It's also noticeable with mostly anything black in a bright scene. Coats, hair, dark objects, the detail, or amount of shades of dark grey and/or black seem to disappear and it looks like one uniform dark color, except it's not really a dark color, because the overall brightness seems to make these dark areas go more gray.

And there is a second part to this, also relating to what should I expect to see. In scenes that are bright, the areas that are suppose to be black, or more gray than black. IN bright scenes, the room does get quite a bit of light reflected back and I am wondering what to call this effect of loosing my blacks in white scenes. Is it light spill? Because there is so much light being thrown at the screen?

And of course, I just want to make sure these things are just normal for a projector. I also have a DLP TV, and the surface is very dark and it maintains black areas much better in bright scenes so I'm guessing that loss is just something I have to live with, with a projector.

I have the CRT white, and I can see how those "gray" screens might help black levels. Is this an issue with white screens? It seems to me that when projector is projecting pure black, it's pretty damn dark, so I'm wondering why I loose so much black detail in bright scenes. Maybe a better white screen is needed, or maybe this is the compromise between white and gray?

Comments from you people?
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post #1725 of 3656
11/8/06 at 5:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacdonald801 View Post

Overall I'm very satisfied with my Pearl but I have some questions on what to expect with black levels in general.

I set up 120" screen on the wall with Goo Systems CRT white. The room is completely dark. The colors are satisfyingly rich, mostly bright scenes are voluptuous, and dark space scenes appear to have a lot of dark detail. I've been using the contrast/brightness settings recommended many pages back.

The one thing that does bother me, and this is where "expectation" comes in is when you have a mostly bright scene, or greater than 50% bright, and it appears that I loose a lot of dark detail. This is mostly noticeable, for example, on actors with black or dark hair, in a scene with a lot of white. It's also noticeable with mostly anything black in a bright scene. Coats, hair, dark objects, the detail, or amount of shades of dark grey and/or black seem to disappear and it looks like one uniform dark color, except it's not really a dark color, because the overall brightness seems to make these dark areas go more gray.

And there is a second part to this, also relating to what should I expect to see. In scenes that are bright, the areas that are suppose to be black, or more gray than black. IN bright scenes, the room does get quite a bit of light reflected back and I am wondering what to call this effect of loosing my blacks in white scenes. Is it light spill? Because there is so much light being thrown at the screen?

And of course, I just want to make sure these things are just normal for a projector. I also have a DLP TV, and the surface is very dark and it maintains black areas much better in bright scenes so I'm guessing that loss is just something I have to live with, with a projector.

I have the CRT white, and I can see how those "gray" screens might help black levels. Is this an issue with white screens? It seems to me that when projector is projecting pure black, it's pretty damn dark, so I'm wondering why I loose so much black detail in bright scenes. Maybe a better white screen is needed, or maybe this is the compromise between white and gray?

Comments from you people?

If you have white walls you can expect to get some bounce back on the screen from them. The only way to reduce or eliminate this is to paint the walls darker or put some light absorbing material on the walls. It's also a good idea to paint the ceiling dark out about 2x the height of your screen. I have my walls painted a very dark tan and it helps a lot. Equipment plays a role in this as well If your projector has a lower contrast ratio you will see more grey areas in bright scenes than a unit with say a ratio of 5000:1 or higher. Mine has a 3000:1 ratio and I see dark greys where there should be blacks on bright scenes. The only other advice I can give you is get a good calibration DVD such as Avia or DVE and calibrate your equipment to your room. it will make a world of difference.

Good luck

Homer
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post #1726 of 3656
11/8/06 at 10:14am
I have calibrated a Sony Pearl and though it had excellent shadow detail, it does not do as well as DLP in the area of ANSI contrast -- meaning scenes with both full white and full black, in that the black does tend to turn more of a gray.

Playing the auto iris and/or gamma settings may improve your image, and of course you want to have brightness and contrast set correctly.

This projector looks even better after a gray scale calibration if you are interested.
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post #1727 of 3656
11/8/06 at 11:17pm
In the for what its worth catagory (Maybe it will help someone else), I picked up a DB4 antenna from one of the boards sponsors, and it solved all my previously mentioned issues. I get almost a full signal on all channels, and the antenna is mounted in my attic.
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post #1728 of 3656
11/10/06 at 3:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelchingBucko View Post

OK, looking for some suggestions to improve reception. I currently have a directional UHF/VHF antenna in my attic. Its your standard home depot $60 TV antenna.

The issues:

Problem . . I am in Sandy (11800 South, 1500east, ~ 20 miles from towers), and the towers are about 10 degrees apart. I currently split the 2, but often 7-2, or 2-1, or 13-2 will drop off.

Bigger problem . . . my antenna is in my attic, my house has aluminum siding on the west side of the house :-S

I climb up into the attic and change the direction of the antenna depending on which station is most important that week/day. I get about 80% reception on some stations, and 30-40% on others. Sometimes 7-2 will bounce between nothing and 50% if I am not pointed in the exact direction of the tower.

I would prefer to leave my antenna in the attic and avoid the grounding issues and unsightlyness of a roof mount. I tried the silver sensor, and it worked OK, but same directional issue, I would have to manually move it between the 2 towers.

Any suggestions on an antenna that would work well in the attic AND pick up the 10 degree difference in the location of the towers?

I've had good luck using a 20db Radio Shack line amplifier to get improved signals. I was picking up all of the Salt Lake channels with just a set of rabbit ears and the amplifier 100 miles away in West Wendover. I picked up a Winegard Square Shooter SS-1000, hung it on an upstairs bedroom wall and with the amp even channel 13, which has always been the weakest station, is above 70 on the signal meter. Channels 2, 4, and 5 are now at 97 to 99 signal strength with signal to noise ratios pushing 75-80. I've seen several comments about the SS-1000's and SS-2000's, the amplified version, not being that good, but at 100 miles away with the signals I'm getting, I'd say they are golden. They don't even look like a tv antenna, they are just a plastic box so you can always mount it out side if the attic reception is the issue and you won't have that antenna look. At just 20 miles I would think you would get all 100's if you include an amp.
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post #1729 of 3656
11/10/06 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelchingBucko View Post

OK, looking for some suggestions to improve reception. I currently have a directional UHF/VHF antenna in my attic. Its your standard home depot $60 TV antenna.

The issues:

Problem . . I am in Sandy (11800 South, 1500east, ~ 20 miles from towers), and the towers are about 10 degrees apart. I currently split the 2, but often 7-2, or 2-1, or 13-2 will drop off.

Bigger problem . . . my antenna is in my attic, my house has aluminum siding on the west side of the house :-S

I climb up into the attic and change the direction of the antenna depending on which station is most important that week/day. I get about 80% reception on some stations, and 30-40% on others. Sometimes 7-2 will bounce between nothing and 50% if I am not pointed in the exact direction of the tower.

I would prefer to leave my antenna in the attic and avoid the grounding issues and unsightlyness of a roof mount. I tried the silver sensor, and it worked OK, but same directional issue, I would have to manually move it between the 2 towers.

Any suggestions on an antenna that would work well in the attic AND pick up the 10 degree difference in the location of the towers?



Where are the towers, exactly? I am in Clearfield and get most of the channels quite well; except for KTVX-DT -- I live right next to some train tracks, and when the diesel engines producing electricity on the trains roll by, I get HUGE interference; especially with ABC4 (ktvx)

thanks
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post #1730 of 3656
11/10/06 at 10:29am
go to www.antennaweb.org for where the towers are. you can input your address and it will show you where they are from your house.
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post #1731 of 3656
11/10/06 at 3:50pm
FWIW . . .the friend or enemy USDTV (depending on your perspective) just picked up the "mtn" network, so Utah & BYU fans can watch games now without cable.
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post #1732 of 3656
11/12/06 at 6:46pm
Does KSL know they are killing the audio on Sunday Night Football everytime they scroll the eyewitness news promo across the bottom? The picture quality is already bad enough on 5-2 with all the macroblocking... the least they could do is give us good sound the entire time.
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post #1733 of 3656
11/13/06 at 4:22am
Huh?

Do you mean the audio goes completely away, or just goes down to stereo? I'll have to check on it.

The new switcher system has a way to do the crawl on HD, without switching back to SD. It should be on line soon, as soon as the operators are comfortable with using it.
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post #1734 of 3656
11/13/06 at 5:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

Huh?

Do you mean the audio goes completely away, or just goes down to stereo? I'll have to check on it.

The new switcher system has a way to do the crawl on HD, without switching back to SD. It should be on line soon, as soon as the operators are comfortable with using it.

I noticed some time in the second or third quarter last night, the 1080i audio went completely to static for about 3 or 4 minutes. There have been a few times when I have noticed the 5.1 going to stereo for a bit (20-40 seconds) and then back to 5.1.


Also; is anyone else noticing the jagging of Fox's HD broadcasts? It looks like ass! Almost always on instant replays. Then, in the regular transmission stream it seemed like a few distinct cameras (especially in the world series) had "lines" or "jagification" in the middle third (top to bottom) of the screen. I emailed foxsports.com and told them their HD *SUCKED*; but on second thought it may be our local Fox13 that is the problem. Not sure.
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post #1735 of 3656
11/13/06 at 1:18pm
Attention CW engineers.
Fix your audio/video sync on HD.

Gives one a headache hearing them say something, then seeing the mouths say what you just heard.

Audio is about a half second to a second ahead of video.

There should be an audio delay built into your Leitch UCP 3600,
(assuming you have one) or whatever HD Frame Syncronisers you are using.

I can't afford $250-$400 for a personal one quite yet,
not to mention having to constantly adjust it, or find space for it.


Jerry
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post #1736 of 3656
11/13/06 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

Huh?

Do you mean the audio goes completely away, or just goes down to stereo? I'll have to check on it.

The new switcher system has a way to do the crawl on HD, without switching back to SD. It should be on line soon, as soon as the operators are comfortable with using it.

Audio changed from the broadcast audio to a loud static/buzzing just a few seconds before the crawl started, it lasted through the crawl, and then for a couple seconds afterwards.

Any update on the video quality issues of the game? Is the national feed just poor quality, or is it due to our beloved weather subchannel?
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post #1737 of 3656
11/15/06 at 4:53am
The audio problem is still being worked on. For some reason, one of the digital audio delays doesn't always pass the Dolby-E data properly, so the subsequent D-E decoders don't recognize it and decode it back to separate channels. They just pass it along. And, undecoded Dolby-E just sounds like full level "static".

The Sunday Night Football (as well as some other fast-motion programming) looks pretty bad coming from NBC. There are several threads about this. We still have plans to nuke the SD channel soon, and reallocate some bandwidth back to HD. I'd like to give a tiny bit more to WeatherPlus, enough to the HD audio to add a SAP channel, and all the rest to HD video. Also, a good "massaging" of the stat-muxing might be in order, since I see it "hunting" sometimes.

BTW, last time I looked, the FCC website showed 27 CPs (Construction Permits) for LD (Low-Power Digital Companion Channels), including some "Flash Cuts", issued in Utah.
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post #1738 of 3656
11/15/06 at 11:20am
Thread Starter 
Ken, I'll put your name in at the temple if it will help you guys get on top of this...
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post #1739 of 3656
11/15/06 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by huberjgl View Post

Attention CW engineers.
Fix your audio/video sync on HD.

Gives one a headache hearing them say something, then seeing the mouths say what you just heard.

Audio is about a half second to a second ahead of video.

There should be an audio delay built into your Leitch UCP 3600,
(assuming you have one) or whatever HD Frame Syncronisers you are using.

I can't afford $250-$400 for a personal one quite yet,
not to mention having to constantly adjust it, or find space for it.


Jerry

At least some programs have audio.

Tried to watch Veronica Mars from a couple weeks ago and it was entirely lacking in audio.

I've been in TV for going on 19 years and just can't fathom how you can air an entire hour without audio.


Jerry
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post #1740 of 3656
11/15/06 at 12:48pm
huberjgl, that's exactly why I record Veronica Mars in SD, in case the CW messes up the HD feed. It happens way too often on the CW to not have a backup of the shows I want to watch. Fortunately, the SD feed through DirecTV had no problems that week, and I was still able to watch it.

That week there was no audio, I'm pretty sure there was no HD either; it was all SD.
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