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Salt Lake City, UT - HDTV - Page 118

post #3511 of 3734
There are 23 LP stations around here? I've seen only around a half-dozen or so.
post #3512 of 3734
He said 23 stations, not 23 LP stations.

2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 20, 24, 30, 32 = 14 full powers.
10, 18 (analog), 19, 23 (analog), 25, 26, 39, 43 (analog), 50 (analog) = 9 low powers and class A stations.

That makes 23.

- Trip
post #3513 of 3734
Alright. The first sentence made it sound like there were 23 more stations to be squeezed in.

BTW, channel 12 is up in Logan and not in the Salt Lake City/Ogden/Provo area.
post #3514 of 3734
I looked at that, and was thinking about editing it to say:
".....of packing 23, or more, DTV stations in to the remaining........"

( I have a FB friend who always reminds me of our Minister when I was a kid......he never uses commas, or any other punctuation. I want to call him "Brother Duke", after our minister who always wrote his sermons in longhand, then added a few dozen commas across the bottom of the page before he gave it to the secretary, to type up.)
post #3515 of 3734
Quote:
Originally Posted by egnlsn View Post

Alright. The first sentence made it sound like there were 23 more stations to be squeezed in.
BTW, channel 12 is up in Logan and not in the Salt Lake City/Ogden/Provo area.

While 12 is in Logan, the coverage is such that it would have to be considered, as you could not put KUTF on the same channel as a Salt Lake City broadcaster without severe interference. http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1497196&map=Y

- Trip
post #3516 of 3734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

While 12 is in Logan, the coverage is such that it would have to be considered, as you could not put KUTF on the same channel as a Salt Lake City broadcaster without severe interference. http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1497196&map=Y
- Trip

I haven't seen 12 in quite a while, and I haven't heard from anyone that has. Can anyone confirm if 12 is broadcasting?
(Not that it's a great loss if it isn't. Just seems a shame to waste perfectly good spectrum on one SD religious channel that nobody watches)
post #3517 of 3734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

While 12 is in Logan, the coverage is such that it would have to be considered, as you could not put KUTF on the same channel as a Salt Lake City broadcaster without severe interference. http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1497196&map=Y
- Trip
Because of mountains, I don't thing channel 12 from Logan could be seen in the Salt Lake viewing area.
post #3518 of 3734
Quote:
Originally Posted by egnlsn View Post

Because of mountains, I don't thing channel 12 from Logan could be seen in the Salt Lake viewing area.

Trip's maps account for terrain. Because its transmitting antenna is on a mountain north and west of Tremonton, and not in Logan, if channel 12 were broadcasting (and it wasn't the last time I was up that way, in July), one should be able to pick it up in locations west of I-15. The signal is coming over the lake, and not the mountains
post #3519 of 3734
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

There's just the problem of packing 23 or more DTV stations in to the remaining channels, if the FCC takes so many away.
The problem with DTV Utah going on to the VHF bands would be the size of the transmitting antennas, and the larger size of the components in the RF combiners, not to mention having to replace all the UHF transmitters (and, simulcast them).
There would likely need to be multiple antennas for full (low-band and high-band VHF) coverage, and the combiner, though lower power, would have some larger components.
I think the LP stations would be the losers, since they would likely be back on VHF, or sandwiched between high-powered UHF's.
I don't even want to think about the receive antenna issues, with (UHF-only) "HDTV" antennas, and the noise environment.
We had a viewer on the SLC East Bench, who couldn't get KSL analog on VHF channel 5, due to his refrigerator.

If you think SLC is going to be a mess repacking 23 channels, imagine Cache Valley, where I am sitting between two translator districts (Cache, UT and Franklin, ID) broadcasting on about 33+ channels. The two districts just refuse to talk to each other, and do whatever they want. Add to that the fact that SLC signals do get to the northern part of the valley, and that Cache County translators run on the same frequency as their SLC counterparts broadcast on... and then there's the Idaho translators that are located in UT on Clarkston ridge that are functioning as STL's for Franklin County rather than as translators...

I don't know what will happen here when the FCC grabs those channels, and to what end? We surely don't need all the spectrum they will take for wireless, we have plenty of spectrum sitting unused here from the LAST spectrum grab. I get the feeling a lot of people who depend on translators in UT are either going to lose a lot of channels, or end up with all channels being SD.
post #3520 of 3734
I asked about channel 12 in one of the radio forums, too.
I've never been able to watch them, although the receiver locks to their signal. I used to hear them on a scanner (tuning to the Pilot Carrier in sideband mode). Haven't heard anything in nearly a year. Their license seems to be still valid.

As for translators....I'm not sure where (or, if) they fit in with the FCC's plans.
post #3521 of 3734
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhett View Post

Because its transmitting antenna is on a mountain north and west of Tremonton...
Makes more sense, now. I thought they were with those towers on the east side of Cache Valley, not the middle of Box Elder.
Edited by egnlsn - 10/16/12 at 7:06am
post #3522 of 3734
DTV Utah plans to make repairs to the upper portion of the primary DTV antenna on Sunday, October 21, 2012.
This will require replacement of a twenty-foot section of 6-1/8” rigid transmission line on the primary tower.

At midnight Saturday (MDT), there will be a brief interruption of stations KSL (NBC), KUTV (CBS), KUED (PBS), and KJZZ (Indep), so that they may be moved to the back-up antenna. This should take about 5 minutes or less.
There may be a short period where the DTV Utah stations may operate at half power, to see if any additional changes would be required (due to the remaining stations staying on the lower antenna on that same tower).
The plan is to keep everyone operating at normal power all day Sunday, but some may have to change to half-power.

On Sunday, at 8:00 AM (MDT) crews will begin work on the antenna, hopefully with no interruption of service or power reductions. They expect to be finished by 4:00 PM (MDT).
At the time of completion, there may be another short-duration interruption, to switch stations back to the normal antenna configuration.

This affects over-the-air, satellite, and most translator stations. Cable TV, except those systems fed by the Comcast head-end at SLC, may also be affected.
post #3523 of 3734
Any chance an over-the-air television station in Utah will become an affiliate of The Nashville Network (TNN) when it launches Novermber 1st?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nashville_Network
post #3524 of 3734
KJZZ-DT is now broadcasting in St George/Washington from K47OA-D on channel 14.1.
post #3525 of 3734
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidhales View Post

KJZZ-DT is now broadcasting in St George/Washington from K47OA-D on channel 14.1.

That's unexpected, although I'm sure it's allowed. K47OA-D is owned by the University of Utah. I was wondering what they were going to do with that station, as Washington/Santa Clara already has KUED and KUEN translators.

K47OA-D was a companion channel to K34FS, which, at last check, was an analog translator of KUED, broadcasting from Webb Hill. Do you know if K34KS is still KUED, or if it's still operational at all? Also, KJZZ was on analog channel 42 in Washington/Santa Clara - is that station still on? It had been operating via Special Temporary Authorization (STA) and owned by Larry Miller Communications, owner of KJZZ, but I don't see the STA having being extended in the past two years, although that could be because the FCC has been inconsistent in publishing STA information.
post #3526 of 3734
Monday's 5:00 PM "KSL News at 5" may need to be preceded with "Please do not adjust your set. You ARE looking at KSL-TV."
smile.gif
post #3527 of 3734
I have 47 channels OTA in farmington. Utah. Until recently I was receiving strong signals for KSL. Now I get drop offs and no signal errors. KSL 5.1 is the worst and the psip station is k49__-D. Any ideas way the full power is on. LPTV as the primary signal. KSL 5.2 & 5.3 signal strength is great.
post #3528 of 3734
Update: My scan of the KSL signal shows it being broadcast on K49FY-D. Is this why the over the air signal is so low up here in Farmington.
post #3529 of 3734
You're getting the signal from the translator on Lewis Peak, in Summit County.
You really should not be getting that, since the signal is being beamed eastward from Lewis.

Your set might have locked up on the signal from there during some freak weather, or when the stations powered down for maintenance recently.

Best bet would be to do a full-blown reset:
1. Unplug the antenna from the set or box.
2. Do a scan (with the antenna disconnected) to "blow out" all the channels in it's memory. You may have to select something in the menu, like "Re-Scan", rather than "Update".
3. Unplug power for three or so minutes.
4. Plug the antenna and the power back in, and run a new scan.

That should update all the info in the receiver, and may even discover a new station or two.
post #3530 of 3734
Hi - not sure if I'm posting this in the right place. Live in Lehi, want to get rid of DirectTV.

current configuration

upstairs 42 inch HDTV with DirecTV HD receiver (owned) and Series 2 TIVO
downstairs 47 inch HDTV with DIrectTV HD receiver (rented) and Series 2 TIVO

where does one even begin as far as equipment purchase, best practices, etc?

Thanks in advance
post #3531 of 3734
Thanks. I had to enter them manually. The automatic scan went by zip code and that just picked up several translators up here in Farmington.
post #3532 of 3734
You should do fine with a medium UHF antenna mounted on the roof and pointed to the North West. If you want better advice, please go to http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29 and enter the requested information, the post the link generated in your report back here. (in bold at the top of the page)
post #3533 of 3734
At an MDU complex in P.G., I just used some Winegard 4400s on the buildings. My signal levels were ~11-18dBmV.
post #3534 of 3734
Here's a "Blast From The Past", for Utah TV viewers:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=vPRSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_4IDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4872%2C5308126

It's an article from the Deseret News, from February of 1984. Some of the names have changed, the places have shuffled around a bit, and it's all Digital now.

(To see the second page of the article, navigate with the box on the right, and move 8 pages to the right.)
post #3535 of 3734
I kind of remember reading that article back then. Very interesting. Another article I read back then was entitled "Humming Right Along." It was about KALL 910AM and technical issues they faced at that frequency, which often caused an audible hum for listeners. Sure wish I could find that one.
post #3536 of 3734
My parents have been using Windows Media Center as a PVR for their home (Ogden area). A few months ago a few of the channels stopped working, most notable channel 4.1 even though MCE was saying that it had near 100% signal strength. We thought it was the hardware and after swapping out parts a came to the conclusion it wasn't the hardware. I used another piece of software to test the channels and 4.1 comes in perfectly.

In searching for a solution, I came across this:
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2257

The jist of it is that the station is broadcasting bad PSIP and it doesn't match what MCE downloads. So we get the "Service is Unavailable" message.

So the question is, how can I tell if the PSIP data is bad, how can it be fixed (who would I contact) or what PVR software would you recommend for my computer illiterate parents?

I would prefer to keep MCE around for my parents as it is easy to use and I'm not sure what PVR software would match that capability.
post #3537 of 3734
Quote:
Originally Posted by saulback View Post

My parents have been using Windows Media Center as a PVR for their home (Ogden area). A few months ago a few of the channels stopped working, most notable channel 4.1 even though MCE was saying that it had near 100% signal strength. We thought it was the hardware and after swapping out parts a came to the conclusion it wasn't the hardware. I used another piece of software to test the channels and 4.1 comes in perfectly.
In searching for a solution, I came across this:
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2257
The jist of it is that the station is broadcasting bad PSIP and it doesn't match what MCE downloads. So we get the "Service is Unavailable" message.
So the question is, how can I tell if the PSIP data is bad, how can it be fixed (who would I contact) or what PVR software would you recommend for my computer illiterate parents?
I would prefer to keep MCE around for my parents as it is easy to use and I'm not sure what PVR software would match that capability.

does channel 4.1 have more than once source being transimitted in your area? if there is more than one source, you have to go into the guide < channel settings and edit the correct source to their tuners.
post #3538 of 3734
I think I may be out of my league here. It doesn't appear that 4.1 has multiple sources. It comes in as channel 40 at some mHz (I forget which one). In channel 40 I get 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3. 4.2 and 4.3 come in just fine. 4.1 comes in using any other tv viewing software. Windows Media Center cannot tune in on it, though.

At http://experts.windows.com/w/experts_wiki/troubleshooting-atsc-transport-stream-issues-in-media-center.aspx , they suggest to use TSReader and look for inconsistencies:
Quote:
Note any inconsistencies that you find. In my case there were several clues and theories, but here are the big ones to look for:
Navigate into the VCT section for each program. Does every one of them have a channel number, and is it in the format of major.minor (also acceptable is major-minor). Does that channel information match what it is supposed to be? If that channel number doesn't match what MCE is expecting to see, then it won't be able to receive the channel.
Navigate into the PAT section for the stream and take note of the TSID. Then navigate into the VCT for each program and ensure that the TSID is the same as the number you saw in the PAT. If they don't match, then MCE won't receive the channel.

I am able to use TSReader Lite, but there is so much information there that I am not sure what to look for. I see TVCT tables, but no channel number. I can't find any TSID (I am assuming TSID is the translator station id? so in the form of k12AB?) But I am not seeing anything like that. Is anyone here familiar with that sort of thing?
post #3539 of 3734
Are you getting the signal directly from Farnsworth Peak, or are you somehow receiving a translator or something?
I've seen that happen...someone a few weeks ago was receiving one sub-channel of KSL from Lewis Peak, and it made things crazy.
A translator may, or may not, be using the same transport stream ID (TSID) as the originating station.
post #3540 of 3734
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

Are you getting the signal directly from Farnsworth Peak, or are you somehow receiving a translator or something?
I've seen that happen...someone a few weeks ago was receiving one sub-channel of KSL from Lewis Peak, and it made things crazy.
A translator may, or may not, be using the same transport stream ID (TSID) as the originating station.

I assumed Farnsworth, but I am not really sure how to determine that. Are you familiar with TSReader? What would I be looking for to determine that? Or if it is using the same TSID, would there be a way to know where the signal is coming from? BTW, KTVX doesn't list Lewis peak as a translator station (http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/translators/default.aspx).

Just to reiterate, this is in North Ogden with 4.1 not working while 4.2 and 4.3 work just fine.
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