New amp is making me grin from ear to ear =) - Page 155

If your amp clips, you need more power. Even if your speakers can handle more power than your amp can deliver, high power clipping can blow your tweeters. When cranking to high power levels it's very important to "keep it clean". A large power amp buys you insurance.

I wouldn't say my current amp is clipping. I'm extremely pleased with the sound quality I get from my rig. I just wonder if I can pull more of that dynamic movie magic sound out of it, namely the mains.

My current mains are 6 ohm speakers rated at 300w handling, and I'd been eyeballing the Crown XLS 402D or XTi 2000 to pair with them. If I like that, I'd grab another for the center.

Just wondering how these amps are for strictly movie purposes, since many user reviews here bring up music listening.

I don't know about the Crowns. I used an old Yamaha P-2200 for my 2 channel listening before I tri-amped everything and I was extremely pleased with that. I'm now using Outlaw amps also and think they're a great value.

An amp's response to input should be linear. So a bigger amp won't buy you much if you don't turn up the volume. If you have a dynamic range expander, that's a different story. I know there's debate on this, but it's my opinion that if the output of an amp doesn't follow the input (until clipping), there's something wrong with the amp. That's why RMS power ratings are so important. You can depend on the power supply keeping up. So until clipping you should get faithful reproduction of the dynamics.

That's pretty much my concern. I can't tell by anything audible that my amp isn't doing its job, with the exception of the previous amp having some more impact in the low frequency department. My speakers seem to respond better in that area with more power.

The sub handles everything below 40hz, so from there up the mains need to have as much authority as they can. I can always get the same amp I had, but was curious if one of the more powerful pro amps would do the job better. I guess there's really only one way to find out.

Indeed... spending money... that's our hobby!

You know you've got it bad when you check the return policy before even looking at the price.

I'm running 4 Crown XLS-402D's (300watts X 2) with a 7.1 Swan system (6.1 Fronts, C3 Center, 2.1 Surrounds & SVS PB12/+2 sub). Before adding the Crowns I had a Carver 85 watt X5 amp. The Crowns added much more detail and headroom than the carver. I can also pump up the volume as loud as I want with no stress to the amp or speakers.

Headroom, if we're talking about the same thing, is what I'm looking for. To me, it's that look on the amps face when you crank the volume knob up. Of course, by "that look on the amp's face", I mean that effortless sound you get with higher power at high volumes. Damn, I like that...

If it weren't for the fan mod needed with so many of the pro amps, I'd have ordered one already to try it out. I've never dabbled in soldering/wire cutting/electrical work, so I'm not too excited about having to do anything to an amp.

If you have a Guitar Center nearby, and they have a demo room, they may have the amps you want to look at hooked up, to compare fan noise.

I picked Mackie due to it's lower fan noise, equal to or less than a consumer PC.

The 402D's don't need a fan mod. They are 2 speed fans that always stay on the slower speed. Fan noise is minimal. The 402B's have one speed (fast) which is pretty noisy.

or you guys can just get xti1000, i got mine for $300 shipped of ebay(b stock).
I can't hear the fan at all on the amp.

I had a Crown XLS 402 die after 3 years of HT use, powering my 8 ohm, 200 watt Swan Diva 6.1s, under mostly low volume use. I did the "fan resistor mod" to slow/quiet it down when I bought it in 2005. Maybe those fans are factory set at mach 4 for a reason, and shouldn't be messed with.

Could someone with amp repair/design background comment on the designs of current popular pro amps in the Crown XLS class? Which are the best built and most reliable?

As an aside, this amp
http://emotiva.com/xpa5.shtm
looks pretty tough to beat for the price and seems to be built quite well.

Thanks,
John

http://www.faceaudio.com/product3,4.html

Have run 3 in a rack for awhile now without any issue.

I know were you can get a deal.

wattage ratings on these pro amps ?

would anyone know what wattage is lost when run at full range -
for example - i am using a QSC GX5 -- rated at 500 watts at 8 ohms - but it was testing at 1 khz -- now when its actually in use - it will use the full range of 20 hz to 20,000 Khz Feg. range - so in real life - it wont put out 500 watts

what would the real rating be ? i notice alot of times - pro audio amps show specs for wattage being tested at 1 Khz as to the full range - which would be the true wattage -

just curious - what the real wattage is on this amp - i have no complaints
this really kicks - i use it with my AVR - for my fronts only - and up to -10 db its loud - but once i go down lower past -10 db - then it really wakes up -
i keep my gains in the middle - half way mark -

so how much is lost in wattage when rated at 1 khz compared to full range ?

Tough to know without a spec. It's like trying to divine RMS wattage from PEP in the old (old!) days. Fortunately, as frequency goes up, normal sound has dramatically less power. Otherwise mids and tweeters would blow out all the time. It's the performance on the bass end that'd be in question.

8-10% loss is a good number to work with. At the end doesn't change much because 1000 watts at 1khz will translate in 900 ish watts 20-20khz so this is about 1db difference nothing to worry about

i wasnt sure - but from looking at other specs - it varies - anywhere between 50 watts and 100 - not a big deal - just curious - thanks - 400 watts is plenty for my home audio

FTC power ratings tend to be about 10 to 15% lower than EIA ratings (assuming the EIA ratings are with all channels driven).

just curious - but why not just rate at the full range audio 20 hz to khz -

why even rate at the other rating which means nothing at all - just a inflated rating that means nothing in the real world ?


i am very happy with my GX5 - more than enough for me - but nice to see the wattage just as it really is - the full audio range - both channels driven or all channels driven depending on the amp -

whats the point of the 1khz rating anyway ?

It looks better in marketing literature aimed at people that don't know better.

yes - i expect that from lower brands -

500 watts at 1khz is actually more or less 400 at the full range - thats a safe bet - could be 420 or 450 - but it wont be the rated wattage -

anyway - its not a big deal as long as you know about it

thanks

i am not knocking QSC at all - they do state the full range on some of there other amps - along with the 1 khz rating -

Expresso712:

I noticed you have Klipsch 82. I have RF-7 up front, but I'm still using my Onkyo875 to push them along with RC7 and other klipsh in-walls for surround. How big of a difference did it make when you powered your fronts with a QSC GX5? Night & Day?

Some say the Klipsch don't come alive untill you really put some power behind them. Di you have to use an ART box or directly from your reciver preout to the QSC GX5?



Jonathan (socal)

those are nice speakers you have i just used the pre outs from my
AVR - which is a marantz 7002 - i first used it with the AVR before getting the amp. - did it sound good - YES - it did - but i felt like the 82's could do more - more kick - it seems as if i really pushed the marantz - the 82 could take more - so i decided to try the GX5 - should be more than enough power to run loud and clean - i got the GX5 for its power - price and its a QSC - they are a good brand - but also because it made it easy for me to connect it - i used the pre outs - and rca to the AVR - thats it -

i keep the GX5 powered on all the time - connected to the AVR and a Belkin pure av pf60 conditioner which i connect everything to - so when i turn on the AVR with the remote - the amp turns on with it - and when i turn it off - it turns off with the AVR - so i dont have to flip the switch all the time on and off on the GX5 - i spoke to QSC about it - and they said it wont do any harm to leave it this way -

now i did notice more kick - i feel the 82's really kick hard if i push it up -

but i feel they are comfortable being played - they dont strain or sound as if its too much - - now i am sure if you push the amp alot near its max - then yeah - the 82's might give out at some point - but i have not reached that point yet its just too loud to leave at that level for long other than a drum solo from Rush - or something - i put the gains at least half way mark - but i have to moved them a bit higher a while back just to see - and i left them there - so i can get the full power of the amp with out going very high on the AVR volume -

i been down to about -10 db at most - and its Very Loud - at about -15 db its LOUD - then each db lower i go - makes a hugh difference -

i might have hit -5 db and 0 db maybe once just to see - but cant leave it there -- plus i do live in an apt. so i have to take it easy -

with your speakers - it should be even better - they can handle more power then the 82's - i wish i would have gotten those instead - they werent being made when i was ready and didnt keep up with all the speakers at the time -

i went from my KG3's to RF82's - last time i was looking for new speakers - the KLF 30's where the ones i wanted - couldnt do it - was married and no room --

i had my amp for over a year and no problems at all - only thing i did was replace the Fan to a quiet model - because i use it for my HT system - and its a little bit loud for quiet HT movies etc. - plus i can hear everything - and it bothered me - now its quiet and not a issue at all -

you can leave the fan if it dosnt bother you - not a big deal really - with music is ok - you dont hear it - its with movies - quiet music maybe - etc. -

now i am curious to how the AVR sounds with out the amp - maybe i just use the AVR alone with the amp to hear the difference - its been so long -

i went with pro audio amps for a few reasons - i used them before and they are solid and powerful - never had problems - lasted for ever the last pro audio amp i had - i had it 18 years and its still working -

but i needed something lighter than 60 pounds to move around and something small - i only had enough room to add a pro audio size amp in my audio stand - so it was perfect for me - its the only silver unit in my stand - but i can live with it - its a nice color -- i would recommend it -

plus you have 30 days to listen - if its not good for you - ship it back -

post back if you get it and tell me what you think - has to put a smile on you

Sorry to hear about your experience with the amp. Crown has a new XLS: http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/xls_drivecore.htm

Hi there everybody, I'm new to this forum.
Based on what I read about it, I bought a used Tapco J2500 MKI (so with the old style front). I paid 130 euro for it, which is a bargain compared to what they were sold for in Europe (almost 500 euro)

I'm planning to drive my PMC TB2 Studio Monitors. These speakers are promoted in combination with Bryston amps, so I wonder how the Tapco will stand up.

Question to reincarnate:
Do you still use the J2500?
I read your reply about the 'new style' J1400, which you had to modify in order to get it in par with the (better built) old J1400.
Which 'High End amplifier references' have you heard (Chord, MC2, Bryston, Jeff Rowland, Pass Labs, Goldmund etc.)?
What brand of speaker cable do you use on the J2500?

I am mainly into vintage equipment and decided to try an XLS 402D to run my newly rebuilt JBL L150's which have a real hunger for power. I am currently powering them with a Sansui Au-20000 which sounds great but I need a little more punch so I appreciate this thread and forum for helping me with my decision.

I grabbed one from Sweetwater and it should be here tomorrow, although this thread is several years old and nearly dead I will post my impressions for those that may still be interested.


It is funny this thread started with the 402A and here we are at the 402D.

This thread will never die.

yes post back when you get it going - always good to hear from others pro audio fans -

i am in the process of adding my equipment to a rack -
i got the samson rack 21U - its nice -

waiting on a dbx 1215 EQ to add and use with my GX 5 amp -

Just picked up a Hafler P1500 amp from audiogon.

My 2 way active designs (QSC HPR-152i clones) have the Hafler running the tweeter and my Behringer A-500 running the woofer.

4 outlaw monoblocks and a Sunfire amp are not being used at this time....hmmm.

Based on this thread I took the red pill and bought a pair of Crown 402Ds a couple years ago. (Other equipment: Onkyo SR805, PSB Goldis, custom passive Elemental Designs A2-300 subwoofer) At first I was very happy with them, the endless power was just bliss.

But then I started to get annoyed with the costantly whirring fans. So I bought a TV stand with an enclosed compartment. I later added some quiet fans for the stand to preserve the Crowns and I was happy, for a time. But then... the noise started to annoy me again. So I bought some "quieter" fans and installed them in my amp. But I still heard those darned amps! It actually started to drive me a little nuts. I finally convinced my wife to allow me to put them in the room net door (I also have a non-silent HTPC). Audio nirvana has been achieved. I highly recommend this to anyone considering pro amps.

Now my question: Do I bridge my amp or not?

My PSBs are rated at 4 ohms, so that's what I have my receiver set for. The Crown amps are certified for 450W at 4 ohms in dual mode, but they are not rated at 4 ohms in bridged mode. Again, I use the amp to power my subwoofer, but could also use it to power my center channel. So what should I do:
1) Bridge the amp and use it just for the subwoofer, even though it's not certified for 4 ohms, and use my 805 to power my center channel.
or:
2) Use the amp in dual mode to power my subwoofer and CC.

Thanks in advance!