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New amp is making me grin from ear to ear =) - Page 163

post #4861 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by aznbladez View Post

What other models are there besides the XLS-402 and the CTS-600 for under $300 used ? The XLS-402 seems to have binding post that can use banana plugs, xlr and rca. The CTS-600 doesn't seem to have XLR input so what cable would you need for that ?

There is also the QSC GX5.
post #4862 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Looks like the xls series is discontinued. Is this the only series you use? I glanced at a few of the other lines but it looks like they are for more commercial applications.

I don't think the XLS drivecore series are discontinued. They're pretty new in fact. And yes they are all made for "Pro" applications.
post #4863 of 4970
Right, but the XLS DriveCore is a completely different amp than the XLS series that was questioned.
post #4864 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by aznbladez View Post

The CTS-600 doesn't seem to have XLR input so what cable would you need for that ?

I think the CTS has what's called Phoenix connectors for the inputs. You'd just cut one end off the XLR or RCA cables and replace with the Phoenix connectors.
post #4865 of 4970
What's the difference between an Emotiva amplifier and a Crown Ampliier. I've been looking for an amplifier and was going to get an XPA-3 since it seemed to be the cheapest option with decent power, but now I've heard of Crown Amplifiers and from this thread I can find them under 300 dollars used and 400 new, so what's the difference?
post #4866 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

What's the difference between an Emotiva amplifier and a Crown Ampliier. I've been looking for an amplifier and was going to get an XPA-3 since it seemed to be the cheapest option with decent power, but now I've heard of Crown Amplifiers and from this thread I can find them under 300 dollars used and 400 new, so what's the difference?

kind of an open question . . . operated within their limits, probalby the lone potentially audible difference is the Crown's cooling fan (Emo doesn't have one). I had an older Crown for a while and briefly used it in my bedroom system. The fan didn't cause undue concern, IIRC (been a decade . . .)
post #4867 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

What's the difference between an Emotiva amplifier and a Crown Ampliier.

Tons of things. For openers there are only few different Emotiva amplifiers but there are probably at least several hundred different models of Crown amplifier spanning almost 50 years and using a variety of different technologies.

Let's restrict ourselves to just those Crown amps in current production, eh? ;-)

So, which of the dozens of current models of Crown amplifier are you talking about?
Quote:
I've been looking for an amplifier and was going to get an XPA-3 since it seemed to be the cheapest option with decent power, but now I've heard of Crown Amplifiers and from this thread I can find them under 300 dollars used and 400 new, so what's the difference?

On balance JHaz probably gave you a very good answer: The most audible difference between a Crown amplifier and an Emotiva ampliifer is that Crown amps, being oriented towards the professional market, almost always have cooling fans. However if you run them in home use they are probably so overrated that the fan may not even ever turn on. The Crown also is probably thus smaller and lighter for its power rating which is technically correct.

And if you want to run 2 ohm speaker loads, the Crown will probably outpull the vast majority of consumer amps you might compare it to.
post #4868 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Tons of things. For openers there are only few different Emotiva amplifiers but there are probably at least several hundred different models of Crown amplifier spanning almost 50 years and using a variety of different technologies.

Let's restrict ourselves to just those Crown amps in current production, eh? ;-)

So, which of the dozens of current models of Crown amplifier are you talking about?
On balance JHaz probably gave you a very good answer: The most audible difference between a Crown amplifier and an Emotiva ampliifer is that Crown amps, being oriented towards the professional market, almost always have cooling fans. However if you run them in home use they are probably so overrated that the fan may not even ever turn on. The Crown also is probably thus smaller and lighter for its power rating which is technically correct.

And if you want to run 2 ohm speaker loads, the Crown will probably outpull the vast majority of consumer amps you might compare it to.

So Crown amps would be great with electrostatic speakers.
post #4869 of 4970
I'll number this to keep it simple.

1. Crown amps size. Crown amps I've seen have typically been under 12 lbs. The XLS series (XLS 2000 is the one I was looking at) is around this weight. Yet Emotiva amps are upwards of 50 lbs.. So why is it this huge disparity in size?

2. Noise. The Emotiva amps have no fans. Are the Crown Amps that noisy that I should be worried? I typically play my speakers at the moment at very high volumes. When I graduate though, I will be listening at a lot quieter volumes. At this point maybe I could remove the amp anyway if it was making too much noise.

3. This goes on the topic of noise. Would a component rack help me out here? If it's enclosed in glass perhaps that would muffle the noise?

4. Rating. This kind of goes back to the size thing as well. Are these amps rated well for the amount of power they are giving out. You said they were overrated which worries me. I'm looking for at least 200W RMS for my Polk Monitor 70s. Maybe even more. These amps were saying around 200-400. The Crown 402D which I'm also considering (used), would be anywhere from 150 to 300 dollars and they put out 300W at 8 ohms. I'm just wondering if such a small amplifier can truly put out that much RMS after seeing the Emotiva mammoths.

Thanks of much guys for the help!
post #4870 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

What's the difference between an Emotiva amplifier and a Crown Ampliier. I've been looking for an amplifier and was going to get an XPA-3 since it seemed to be the cheapest option with decent power, but now I've heard of Crown Amplifiers and from this thread I can find them under 300 dollars used and 400 new, so what's the difference?

kind of an open question . . . operated within their limits, probalby the lone potentially audible difference is the Crown's cooling fan (Emo doesn't have one). I had an older Crown for a while and briefly used it in my bedroom system. The fan didn't cause undue concern, IIRC (been a decade . . .)

 

I have a Crown XLS1000 here and I am not even sure if the fans ever kick in or not. They are certainly not audible if they do, over the noise of the cooling fans in my media closet and the fans in the couple of drives connected to the HTPC computer. In a domestic application these amps are just taking a stroll in the park every day - it's probably safe to disconnect them. 

post #4871 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

1. Crown amps size. Crown amps I've seen have typically been under 12 lbs. The XLS series (XLS 2000 is the one I was looking at) is around this weight. Yet Emotiva amps are upwards of 50 lbs.. So why is it this huge disparity in size?

2I'm just wondering if such a small amplifier can truly put out that much RMS after seeing the Emotiva mammoths.

Thanks of much guys for the help!

Crown amps are Class D and Emotiva amps are Class A/B. Class D amps are way more efficient than Class A/B (90% or so to 50% or so). Because of this they run a lot cooler (les of the electricity is converted to heat and more to sound) - this means they don't need huge heat sinks, which weigh a lot. Class A/B amps also have large power transformers too.

 

So weight is not an indicator of quality when comparing Class D with Class A/B. It might be a useful indicator when comparing Class A/B with A/B - a heavier amp will likely have big transformer, heat sinks and capacitors - all important components in a quality amp, so there a heavier amp *might* be better than a similarly specced and sized competitor. Note I did say 'might'. 

post #4872 of 4970
Now that you've clarified it I'm thinking a crown amp might be what I need to get started. Is getting one used a big concern? The one in the OP is pretty cheap on ebay. Since there are a lot of these amps to choose from its kind of confusing. I'm leaning towards the xls 1500 though as well as that has 25 more watts than the rms recommended for the Polk monitor 70s.

Any help would be great though! Thanks again for the help!
post #4873 of 4970
Also, about the preamp voltages with a pro amp. How big of a deal is that? I'm trying to figure that out since I don't have a receiver yet with pre outs I have a lot of time to purchase the right one. I really think this will solve all my problems with my speakers being driven to the point of my tweeters popping for the second time so I'm anxious to try and finish this.
post #4874 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

It's not just about getting louder. My Denon 3313 does 125 a channel at 2 channels driven. It does about 80 with all 7 driven. Adding an amp is for two reasons for me. 1st, taking some of the load off of my receiver and overall health of the unit. 2nd, I have read all about you guys talking about amps only adding db increases but I beleive it adds to the performance of the speaker, the sound. Once you power amplify speakers, in my opinion, it's just different fuller sound. Many will disagree but whatever...

Clearly what we need is a Celebrity Deathmatch between audiophiles who believe that 2 watts sound better coming from a 200 watt amp thatn a 20 watt amp and audiophiles who believe that since they don't really use all that much power, the simpler, lower powered, no -more-than-2 amplification devices per channel amps sound better. Not SET users but the foks for whom Musical Fidelity made the under 40 watt A1.

Maybe Anthony Michaelson of MF could fight against his doppelganger, since he's on record often as saying that high power is needed, not to make the quiet passages sound different, but to actually reproduce the dynamics of uncompressed classical recordings. IIRC, he described a test in which he recirded a string quartet, then played back via large B&Ws in the same space, finding he needed 500 watts to reproduce the peaks produced by the quartet at the listening position. From which one might take the conclusion that Mr. Michaels was shamelessly pandering to a vocal audiophile group with whom he disagreed in building the A1. LIkely true, and the very defintion, IMO, of appropriate marketing strategy for a manufacturer who seeks to, uh, make money rather than get good reviews then go bankrupt. Find a niche and fill it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

It's not just about getting louder. My Denon 3313 does 125 a channel at 2 channels driven. It does about 80 with all 7 driven. Adding an amp is for two reasons for me. 1st, taking some of the load off of my receiver and overall health of the unit. 2nd, I have read all about you guys talking about amps only adding db increases but I beleive it adds to the performance of the speaker, the sound. Once you power amplify speakers, in my opinion, it's just different fuller sound. Many will disagree but whatever...

Clearly what we need is a Celebrity Deathmatch between audiophiles who believe that 2 watts sound better coming from a 200 watt amp thatn a 20 watt amp and audiophiles who believe that since they don't really use all that much power, the simpler, lower powered, no -more-than-2 amplification devices per channel amps sound better. Not SET users but the foks for whom Musical Fidelity made the under 40 watt A1.

Maybe Anthony Michaelson of MF could fight against his doppelganger, since he's on record often as saying that high power is needed, not to make the quiet passages sound different, but to actually reproduce the dynamics of uncompressed classical recordings. IIRC, he described a test in which he recirded a string quartet, then played back via large B&Ws in the same space, finding he needed 500 watts to reproduce the peaks produced by the quartet at the listening position. From which one might take the conclusion that Mr. Michaels was shamelessly pandering to a vocal audiophile group with whom he disagreed in building the A1. LIkely true, and the very defintion, IMO, of appropriate marketing strategy for a manufacturer who seeks to, uh, make money rather than get good reviews then go bankrupt. Find a niche and fill it.

I've been reading Absolutely everything I can about these class D amps, & I think I have to have one, but I also think that what you have said above might be the most Informative of all.
I want to hear more of your opinions on this.
post #4875 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Now that you've clarified it I'm thinking a crown amp might be what I need to get started. Is getting one used a big concern? The one in the OP is pretty cheap on ebay. Since there are a lot of these amps to choose from its kind of confusing. I'm leaning towards the xls 1500 though as well as that has 25 more watts than the rms recommended for the Polk monitor 70s.

Any help would be great though! Thanks again for the help!

 

Crown amps have good reputations. They are designed for a life on the road so they are incredibly tough and durable. They also have a 5 year 'no quibble' guarantee. I'd say that a used from, from a reliable source, would be a good buy - they are designed to be very hard to abuse. The main issue is the fan and if it makes a noise you can't live with. My gear is all in an external closet so this is a non-issue for me. If the amp was 2 feet from my MLP it might be different. Also, some would say they look pig ugly, but that is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I don't dislike their looks. One other point - the rack ears are built in - they cannot be removed, so if you are installing in a limited width space, remember that.

 

Don't worry about having an amp with more power than your speaker's rating. That rating is for a continuous sine wave input - not something you will do in real life. You are more likely to harm your speakers by using an underpowered amp than an overpowered one because it is easier to drive the underpowered amp into clipping, and clipping is potentially harmful to speakers. That's another plus point for the Crown - it has clipping indicators - something almost never seen on 'consumer' amps (maybe they don't want you to know?).

post #4876 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Crown amps have good reputations. They are designed for a life on the road so they are incredibly tough and durable. They also have a 5 year 'no quibble' guarantee. I'd say that a used from, from a reliable source, would be a good buy - they are designed to be very hard to abuse. The main issue is the fan and if it makes a noise you can't live with. My gear is all in an external closet so this is a non-issue for me. If the amp was 2 feet from my MLP it might be different. Also, some would say they look pig ugly, but that is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I don't dislike their looks. One other point - the rack ears are built in - they cannot be removed, so if you are installing in a limited width space, remember that.

Don't worry about having an amp with more power than your speaker's rating. That rating is for a continuous sine wave input - not something you will do in real life. You are more likely to harm your speakers by using an underpowered amp than an overpowered one because it is easier to drive the underpowered amp into clipping, and clipping is potentially harmful to speakers. That's another plus point for the Crown - it has clipping indicators - something almost never seen on 'consumer' amps (maybe they don't want you to know?).

Yes, I understand the damaging my speakers part lol. That's why I'm buying this amp. Receiver has broken my tweeters twice from not having enough power. I trusted the "most people don't even need an amp speakers are so efficient". Because of that I have a receiver that doesn't fit my needs and no amplifier. I'll be purchasing the XLS 1500 shortly I guess. The only thing I am curious about though is the preamp voltage thing. What about this? Apparently receivers don't have the preamp voltage that they're supposed to for these amplifiers? I don't get it lol sorry. That's the last hurdle on me purchasing these and they are 350 so I want to do it asap now.
post #4877 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

. Receiver has broken my tweeters twice from not having enough power.

Just a couple points of clarification, the receiver didn't damage the tweeters and the tweeters weren't damaged by too little power.
post #4878 of 4970
I have a little bear single tube headphone amp in between my source & the pre-amp, it could also be inbetween the pre amp & the amp for additional line level volume. I have used it for over a month now with several pieces of equiptment, & it is silent & a bit Smoothing.
It has 2 inputs headphone jack & RCA, & 2 outputs, headphone large?1/4" jack? & small & RCA
I believe that for me it was a great initiation into tube effects on music.
Since I'll also be buying this amp if my Emotiva does not Completely WOW me.Processed By eBay with ImageMagick, R1.0.1.M2b
post #4879 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Just a couple points of clarification, the receiver didn't damage the tweeters and the tweeters weren't damaged by too little power.
Due to amplifier clipping in the receiver? Probably should have clarified the whole way I'm a little confused now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVNut57 View Post

I have a little bear single tube headphone amp in between my source & the pre-amp, it could also be inbetween the pre amp & the amp for additional line level volume. I have used it for over a month now with several pieces of equiptment, & it is silent & a bit Smoothing.
It has 2 inputs headphone jack & RCA, & 2 outputs, headphone large?1/4" jack? & small & RCA
I believe that for me it was a great initiation into tube effects on music.
Since I'll also be buying this amp if my Emotiva does not Completely WOW me.Processed By eBay with ImageMagick, R1.0.1.M2b

I wasn't sure if this was in response to my post about the preamp voltages since it seems kind of logical, but then again I'm clueless.
post #4880 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

I'll be purchasing the XLS 1500 shortly I guess. The only thing I am curious about though is the preamp voltage thing. What about this? Apparently receivers don't have the preamp voltage that they're supposed to for these amplifiers? I don't get it lol sorry. That's the last hurdle on me purchasing these and they are 350 so I want to do it asap now.

 

You should be fine. If unsure check your AVR or AVP user manual for its output level.

 

My Onkyo 5509 has a nominal 1v on the RCA preout and 5.5v on the XLR output.

 

Sensitivity for full rated power into 4 ohms of my Crown XLS1000 Drivecore amp is 1.4v. I could use the XLR outs on my 5509 but you may not have them on your unit.

 

This might indicate that I may not be able to get the full rated power of the amp using RCA outlets, but then again I don't actually need 1000 watts! (Bridged mode, 4 ohm, which is how I use it).

post #4881 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

You should be fine. If unsure check your AVR or AVP user manual for its output level.

My Onkyo 5509 has a nominal 1v on the RCA preout and 5.5v on the XLR output.

Sensitivity for full rated power into 4 ohms of my Crown XLS1000 Drivecore amp is 1.4v. I could use the XLR outs on my 5509 but you may not have them on your unit.

This might indicate that I may not be able to get the full rated power of the amp using RCA outlets, but then again I don't actually need 1000 watts! (Bridged mode, 4 ohm, which is how I use it).

Ok, I don't actually have the receiver yet because my current receiver doesn't support preouts. I wanted the Onkyo 809 but it doesn't seem like it will drop in price again. The Pioneer SC-1222-K is 530 on newegg right now though so I might jump on that. Not sure which is better though in this situation the 809 or the SC-1222-K. Going to check both their manuals now for the voltage but I'm not sure what I'm really looking for.

Is any of this helpful?
Onkyo 809
Rated Output Power
All channels: (North American)
135 watts minimum continuous power
per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels
driven from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with a
maximum total harmonic distortion of
0.08% (FTC)
160 watts minimum continuous power
per channel, 6 ohm loads, 2 channels
driven at 1 kHz, with a maximum total
harmonic distortion of 0.1% (FTC)
145 watts minimum continuous power
per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels
driven at 1 kHz, with a maximum total
harmonic distortion of 0.7% (FTC)
(Others)
7 ch × 180 W at 6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 ch driven
of 1 % (IEC)
Maximum Effective Output Power
(Asian)
7 ch × 230 W at 6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 ch driven
(JEITA)
Dynamic Power*
* IEC60268-Short-term maximum output power
300 W (3 Ω, Front)
250 W (4 Ω, Front)
150 W (8 Ω, Front)
THD+N (Total Harmonic Distortion+Noise)
0.08% (20 Hz - 20 kHz, half power)
Damping Factor 60 (Front, 1 kHz, 8 Ω)
Input Sensitivity and Impedance (Unbalance)
200 mV/47 kΩ (LINE)
2.5 mV/47 kΩ (PHONO MM)
Rated RCA Output Level and Impedance
200 mV/470 Ω (PRE OUT)
Maximum RCA Output Level and Impedance
4.6 V/470 Ω (PRE OUT)
Phono Overload 70 mV (MM 1 kHz 0.5%)
Frequency Response 5 Hz - 100 kHz/+1 dB, -3 dB (Direct mode)
Tone Control Characteristics
±10 dB, 50 Hz (BASS)
±10 dB, 20 kHz (TREBLE)
Signal to Noise Ratio 110 dB (LINE, IHF-A)
80 dB (PHONO M

SC-1222-K
Rated Output Power
All channels: (North American)
135 watts minimum continuous power
per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels
driven from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with a
maximum total harmonic distortion of
0.08% (FTC)
160 watts minimum continuous power
per channel, 6 ohm loads, 2 channels
driven at 1 kHz, with a maximum total
harmonic distortion of 0.1% (FTC)
145 watts minimum continuous power
per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels
driven at 1 kHz, with a maximum total
harmonic distortion of 0.7% (FTC)
(Others)
7 ch × 180 W at 6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 ch driven
of 1 % (IEC)
Maximum Effective Output Power
(Asian)
7 ch × 230 W at 6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 ch driven
(JEITA)
Dynamic Power*
* IEC60268-Short-term maximum output power
300 W (3 Ω, Front)
250 W (4 Ω, Front)
150 W (8 Ω, Front)
THD+N (Total Harmonic Distortion+Noise)
0.08% (20 Hz - 20 kHz, half power)
Damping Factor 60 (Front, 1 kHz, 8 Ω)
Input Sensitivity and Impedance (Unbalance)
200 mV/47 kΩ (LINE)
2.5 mV/47 kΩ (PHONO MM)
Rated RCA Output Level and Impedance
200 mV/470 Ω (PRE OUT)
Maximum RCA Output Level and Impedance
4.6 V/470 Ω (PRE OUT)
Phono Overload 70 mV (MM 1 kHz 0.5%)
Frequency Response 5 Hz - 100 kHz/+1 dB, -3 dB (Direct mode)
Tone Control Characteristics
±10 dB, 50 Hz (BASS)
±10 dB, 20 kHz (TREBLE)
Signal to Noise Ratio 110 dB (LINE, IHF-A)
80 dB (PHONO M

Not sure which one outputs more power either. Thought it was the 809 but now that I learn more about amps, it seems like the Pioneer might. Always so hard to shop for audio stuff.
post #4882 of 4970
Don't worry about the pre out voltage at this point. If you want the amp then get the amp and see how it goes. You can always fix the pre out voltage later IF you even need to.
post #4883 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Due to amplifier clipping in the receiver? Probably should have clarified the whole way I'm a little confused now.

I was being a little facetious, but it it is true. The receiver didn't do anything, you did by how you used the volume knob.

And, about too little power damaging the tweeters, that's never the case. Too much power damages the tweeters, regardless that too much power could be due to clipping and weirdness of the signal as a result, or by a clean signal that simply too much for the driver to cope with.
Edited by whoaru99 - 2/13/13 at 10:55am
post #4884 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Don't worry about the pre out voltage at this point. If you want the amp then get the amp and see how it goes. You can always fix the pre out voltage later IF you even need to.

I'm trying to get full information since the last time I didn't, I ended up with a receiver that didn't meet my needs which sucks. Since I don't have a receiver with preouts and am looking to purchase one, probably by the end of the day if the SC-1222-K is the better option, it makes sense to buy the receiver that best fits my needs rather than one that clearly doesn't.

Also, been wondering about the 12v trigger thing. What is that about...

Sorry for allt he questions, I'm such a noob when it comes to receivers and amplifiers and well HT in general. Car audio was pretty easy lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

I was being a little facetious, but it it is true. The receiver didn't do anything, you did by how you used the volume knob.

Ya, I didn't really expect things to go wrong at 75% volume, even if the treble was at +6 dbs. That's generally the volume limit people tell you not to go past I feel like.
post #4885 of 4970
You will find people who like either AVR. Look at the features and decide which you want. Spec-wise there's little difference.

A 12 V trigger output from the AVR provides a signal (through a small mono cable) to turn the amplifier on and off with the AVR, saving you from having to do it. Or forgetting and possibly causing damage when the AVR powers on or off with the amp on, thus causing a great big "pop".

6 dB is four times the power relative to 0 dB. I do not know what exactly is blowing out your tweeters but you might want to consider if you need that much boost, or if you can turn it down or adjust the higher frequencies to reduce the power into the tweeter. I have not read all your posts so am not sure how you decided it is your amp clipping and destroying the tweeters. Be annoying to buy a new AVR and amp and continue to blow them...
post #4886 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post


Ya, I didn't really expect things to go wrong at 75% volume, even if the treble was at +6 dbs. That's generally the volume limit people tell you not to go past I feel like.

My apology here if I'm beating a dead horse, but for future reference there isn't really a specific number that guarantees safety in this regard...except maybe zero volume point (meaning turned down as far as it can go).

Clipping indicators on the amp certainly provides a guideline in regard to that aspect, but with sufficient power you can still ruin your speakers with long term thermal overload or over-excursion even if the clipping indicators never, ever light up.
post #4887 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

You will find people who like either AVR. Look at the features and decide which you want. Spec-wise there's little difference.

A 12 V trigger output from the AVR provides a signal (through a small mono cable) to turn the amplifier on and off with the AVR, saving you from having to do it. Or forgetting and possibly causing damage when the AVR powers on or off with the amp on, thus causing a great big "pop".

6 dB is four times the power relative to 0 dB. I do not know what exactly is blowing out your tweeters but you might want to consider if you need that much boost, or if you can turn it down or adjust the higher frequencies to reduce the power into the tweeter. I have not read all your posts so am not sure how you decided it is your amp clipping and destroying the tweeters. Be annoying to buy a new AVR and amp and continue to blow them...

Considering I've never used my current receiver beyond hooking it up to the TV, setting it up so it's 2.1 channel, and that the crossover was 80 Hz, then I just played. I dunno what else I can even do with it. I'm guessing not much. I had meant to buy the model above this one but I bought it one day when I just got pissed that I had speakers, a sub, and no way to listen to them. I just read the spec sheets now but I really dunno what's important. I play video games, listen to music, watch movies (using my PC as a source and ONLY my PC).

I'm not sure how I can check. I had posted another thread earlier though and people had suggested that it was probably my listening levels and amp clipping which made the tweeters pop. That was the only explanation I was given so I went with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

My apology here if I'm beating a dead horse, but for future reference there isn't really a specific number that guarantees safety in this regard...except maybe zero volume point (meaning turned down as far as it can go).

Clipping indicators on the amp certainly provides a guideline in regard to that aspect, but with sufficient power you can still ruin your speakers with long term thermal overload or over-excursion even if the clipping indicators never, ever light up.

Well, it took two weeks for the new tweeters to pop and I only played music at high volumes once, and I didn't even reach 75%. I was at 70% when I lost all treble to the left speaker. Then the next day, the other one just stopped. I dunno what else it could be. Replacing the tweeters fixed it last time until I had played at 55/80 volume level for awhile. I think a part of it may be (correct me if I'm wrong), AB amplifiers run hot, I live in a hot room(heat is on sometimes and when I cram like 30 people into my room it gets pretty hot as well) with a lot of electronics running 24/7 so maybe that's exacerbating the problem?

I can't think of ways to test these things like I could with a PC because I don't have the extra equipment or the actual knowledge
post #4888 of 4970
I plan on pulling the trigger on this within the next 5 hours so if anyone could tell me the preamp voltage on those 2 receivers and which would be more capable at drawing the rated power please let me know. Also if anyone has a link to the 809 labs. I can only find the pioneer labs.
post #4889 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Considering I've never used my current receiver beyond hooking it up to the TV, setting it up so it's 2.1 channel, and that the crossover was 80 Hz, then I just played. I dunno what else I can even do with it. I'm guessing not much. I had meant to buy the model above this one but I bought it one day when I just got pissed that I had speakers, a sub, and no way to listen to them. I just read the spec sheets now but I really dunno what's important. I play video games, listen to music, watch movies (using my PC as a source and ONLY my PC).

I'm not sure how I can check. I had posted another thread earlier though and people had suggested that it was probably my listening levels and amp clipping which made the tweeters pop. That was the only explanation I was given so I went with that.
Well, it took two weeks for the new tweeters to pop and I only played music at high volumes once, and I didn't even reach 75%. I was at 70% when I lost all treble to the left speaker. Then the next day, the other one just stopped. I dunno what else it could be. Replacing the tweeters fixed it last time until I had played at 55/80 volume level for awhile. I think a part of it may be (correct me if I'm wrong), AB amplifiers run hot, I live in a hot room(heat is on sometimes and when I cram like 30 people into my room it gets pretty hot as well) with a lot of electronics running 24/7 so maybe that's exacerbating the problem?

I can't think of ways to test these things like I could with a PC because I don't have the extra equipment or the actual knowledge

what do you mean by 70 percent? Pure volume control setting really doesn't tell you anything about power unless the system has been calibrated to some reference level or otherwise tested.
post #4890 of 4970
Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

I plan on pulling the trigger on this within the next 5 hours so if anyone could tell me the preamp voltage on those 2 receivers and which would be more capable at drawing the rated power please let me know. Also if anyone has a link to the 809 labs. I can only find the pioneer labs.

if you are asking what the preamp output levels are, they're likely to be very comparable between consumer receivers, and likely to be a bit lowish, if anything, compared to what "pro" type amps "expect" although that by e means determines total available output power. Their nominal output boltage should be in the specs, which you can google and read . . .
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