Upconverting DVD Player Options/Impressions - Page 14

Ok, I'm after what many of us want here - a networkable DVD player with upscaling functions. DVI isn't essential (component will do for now). The LinkPlayer looks ideal (just need to buy a small LAN-WIFI bridge device).... but looking at their web site this is shown in red:

*LinkPlayer doesn't have an upscaling function. The current market available DVD movie (480p SD) is by 480p out with no scaling even if LinkPlayer setting is 720p or 1080i HD mode. 720p DVD disc will come in a market, and it can be played by 720p output.

Errrr, so it doesn't do any upscaling? Is this true? If so it needs to be dropped from the main table on the first post.

Jonathan

I have compared different scenes from popular demo discs using my Sony DVP-NS975V qnd new Sony CRT HDTV (which can natively display all three resolutions) and my impression is that 480p is still the best rendtion of the picture. At first, the 720p and 1080i resolutions seemed sharper, but not really any more detailed. All seemed well, until I started to realize that the picture at 480p was simply smoother and more filmlike. The reason is that while the higher resolutions seem sharper, all they are really doing is extrapolating and expanding pixels in real time, and this creates edge enhancement. Once you see this enhancement, it is nearly impossible not to notice. It's not Phantom Menace bad, but you know it's there. 720p and 1080i look better than just increasing the sharpness control, but it still looks more digital than 480p. Not truly bad in any way, I just prefer the picture in 480p.

On another note, although I can't really see with demo scenes the green depression when using the higher resolutions, it is plainly visible using Avia. Hopefully Sony will release a firmware upgrade that will eliminate this as it's discouraging that two Sony products cannot be used successfully together using upconversion. If they do, I'll defintely take another look at the higher resolutions again to see if they make any improvements in the quality of the picture.

Either way, I am extremely happy with this DVD player, and would recommend it to anyone looking for a stunning 480p picture.

Mark, ideally, the up-converting player should be matched to a digital display via a digital connection for the best PQ.

That is wrong a non-owner has been posting that all day in the LinkPlayer thread.

On component both the US and the Japanese versions upscale all media (commercial DVDs, ripped DVDs, Video CDs, and networked media) to your selected output res of up to 1080i or 720p.

The Japanese version has DVI without HDCP and on DVI commercial and ripped DVDs will not upscale but networked media will. The US version with DVI won't be shipping until IODATA gets an HDCP implementation.

Paul (an Owner)

Ditto what Paul said.

Tom (an Owner)

Ditto what RockStrongo said too, although the upscaled 1080i component output from the LinkPlayer2 subjectively looks slightly better than 480p component output from my Panasonic RP82 (to the Sammy DLP), and is confirmed by the THX Optimizer bars. The Linkplayer resolves all the lines without moire and no macro-blocking. The Panny Faroudja deinterlacing is flawless of course, but the new Sigma chip seems very good.
(an Owner)

Mark,

I agree 100%. I too have a Sony CRT HDTV and see no improvement with HDMI.

See my other post in another thread --- I compared the 775 to the 975 via component 480P and the image quality seems to be exactly the same -- with the 775 being $200.00 cheaper.

But isn't the "green depression" an issue that a firmware update cannot address, only a hardware fix/alteration could alleviate this problem?

Are there any upconverting DVD players that have RGB computer outputs or full DVI outputs so that I can use a RGB converter plug attachment? I am using a CRT projector which does not have DVI or component outputs. Thanks.

I have a Denon DVD-1910 which I am having problems with via the DVI hookup.

If I were to go purely by the reviews on the "Home Theater and High Fidelity" website, I would be inclined to trade the 1910 (score 82) for one of the following $300 and under units:

Toshiba - SD-V592 (DVD/VCR combo unit - score 92)
Panasonic - DVD-S97 (score 86)

Granted, with either of these I'd have to buy an HDMI/DVI adapter for my Monster Cable DVI400 cable...

FYI, I'm using a Sony KDP-57WS550 RPTV with the DVI hookup.

Would I be foolish to assume that a $250 player that scored a 92 is overall better than some of the $2,000 players that score significantly less in some instances? Sounds crazy...

Just because it received a good score does not mean that it's a great player. Many of us that ordered the V592 based on that score returned them.

May I ask what was your reason for returning it?

I'm just trying to find a good alternative to the DVD-1910 if I can't resolve my DVI issues with that player. I'm looking in the $300 and under range.

Thanks.

The panasonic S97 is an excellent player if you have the right display. Unfortunately, I have the macroblocking issue (10-20% of my movies have it) on my DLP tv so I had to switch it over to component. Others displays may not have that issue though.

Im still very happy with the player (due to features and so on). I cannot tell the difference between the HDMI and COMP inputs on my tv so Im still happy (my tv upscales everything to 720p).

I hope that Panasonic comes out with a firmware fix or something so I can use the pure digital connection though (HDMI).

'I too have a Sony CRT HDTV and see no improvement with HDMI.'

Isn't all CRT technology analog? So there would not be a difference on an analog set using HDMI.

CD

There might be. With HDMI, the TV would be doing the D-to-A conversion. With component, the player would be doing it.

FYI, you may be interested to know that any of those players that uses the Zoran HDXtreme upscaling chipset (Zoran ZR36721 chip) is a potential candidate for the addition of analog RGBS outputs with only minor player modifications. The chip has analog RGBS outputs that I'm trying to get some data on.

I have posted a new topic explaining what am trying to do in this forum.

My ultimate intent is to build a mod kit that can be installed in any HDXtreme chip-equipped player that provides analog RGBS outputs. This is likely to be well received by CRT projector owners at least, if I am successful.



CJ

I have a Sony KDP-65WS550 CRT based 65" DVI equipped RPTV. This set has native 480p and 1080i scan rates (does not convert 480p to 540p). I had been using a Panasonic XP50 DVD player via component. I was VERY skeptical of the value a DVI equipped player for this display. I purchased a 3910 from the good guys knowing that if it wasn't any better than the XP50 I could easily return it.

Using the test patterns on Digital Video Essentials and Avia, the difference was quite clear. Via component 480p the 3910 was slightly better than the Xp50 resolution wise, and identical in terms of de-interlacing and basic color/YC delay performance. Via 480p DVI resolution was considerably improved, even on this 65" CRT RPTV. Watching actual movies the difference was clearly visible in many of the scenes as well.

So I was EXTREMELY skeptical of the need for a DVI DVD player, but in actually purchasing one and testing things out, it was clear DVI was better even on my CRT system. Even when comparing the 3910 via 480p component to the 3910 via 480p DVI, the difference in resolution was clear.

I had no issues with green push/depression, white or black crush, or passing below black either. The whole thing went pretty smoothly for me. Comparing DVI 480p to 1080i, it seemed 480p was somewhat better as I detected what appeared to be subtle scaling artifacts on the 1080i image that were not present at 480p. Since the source material is all 480 resolution, and my display supports a native 480p scan rate, it seems 480p is the way to go in my setup.

Overall I would say if you have a fairly modern, decent quality large CRT display DVI is definately worthwhile.

Moral of the story: Sometimew you have to shell out enough cash to tell the difference between DVI and component, but if you purchase a player as good as the 3910 is, it will verify that, yes, DVI can be better!

And sometimes it's the shelling out that tells you there's a difference.

Most anecdotal evidence can be translated to this:

"I bought the blank."

I have been very skeptical about the value of DVI, I purchased the 3910 to satisfy my own curiosity, locally from The Good Guys so I could take it back when it did not perform any better than my XP50. I was almost totally confident that the XP50 would be as good as, or even perhaps better than the 3910. It was as much of a surprise to me as anyone else that the 3910 proved significantly better on my display, for whatever reason.

I'm simply stating the facts as measured by observation with various test patterns on well known calibration discs, as well as my DVD collection and experience with home theater displays.

I'm not saying the 3910 is any better or worse than any other DVI/HDMI display, I didn't mean to suggest that. I'm merely stating my observations and experiences with high quality component DVD sources vs. DVI sources on a 65" CRT display.

About 5-6 weeks ago I purchased a Sony 42WE655 RPLCD, and I love the set but wanted to purchase a new DVD player to go along with my new set.

So after reading all about the merits of the new up-converting/HDMI players I thought I would pick one up (Sony NS975V) . I also bought a new Onkyo CP-702 6 disk CD/DVD Changer/Progressive Scan 480P - standard stuff.

Well after watching a few DVD's - Minority Report, I Robot, animation and others..I'm having a very hard time justifying the extra $100 for the Sony plus the 1 disk vs 6 disk capacity advantage.

Question - On a 42 HD/RPLCD is the improvement in PQ not able to be seen, because the screen is too small? Maybe if I had a 50+ or a larger front projected image, a difference could be seen..

I look at scene after scene...and I just don't see any significant difference between 1080i/720p HDMI Cable...and 480p component on the Onkyo Changer.

I was surprised...

Thanks,
-mike-

Did you calibrate each player separately prior to your tests? I don't think you can accurately compare two players unless each have been calibrated for your display.

It would be nice to see some additional information in the table in the first post of this thread. (macroblocking?, pros, cons, etc)

I know there is somet work there, but I think there are enough people out there who know this stuff to get a quick summary of each player. It is really hard to dig through hundreds (or thousands) of posts on each player to find out this info.

I hate to ask this but can somebody elaborate on this? I am a newbie on this. What does this mean? How do you accomplish this?

Buy either the "Avia Guide to Home Theater" or "Digital Video Essentials" calibration DVDs and use it to adjust your set's color, etc. It makes a huge difference. Check amazon.com

Thanks Bogey62 ... I will look for these

I was told that rear projection DLP and LCD tv's do not require calibration. If that's true... would getting this AVIA demo disc be worthwhile to me or is it for CRT sets? I have a Hitachi 60V500 LCD.

Thanks!

You don't have to set convergence with those sets, but you still need to calibrate them (color, etc.) to get the best picture. I have a DLP and and the DVE disc. Well worth it, both for the calibration, and for the peace of mind that you have it setup correctly.

-Max

Well, I just received a Denon DVD-1910 from Crutchfield yesterday to possibly replace my Bravo D1. Unlike some others, I have not had any real problems with my Bravo until very recently... the power supply failed after about 20 months of daily use. I sent in the power supply board to V Inc. for repair and will get the Bravo up and running again soon.

OK, on to the Denon. I should start out by mentioning I have a Samsung HLN467W DLP and have been viewing DVD's upscaled to 720p with the Bravo the entire time I've owned it. Before that, I had the 43" Samsung DLP, so I have lots of viewing time in with the Bravo. So, I hook up the Denon 1910 with no problems. It is very lightweight, but appears to be a little bit better built than the Bravo D1. Loading a DVD into the Denon is quieter than the Bravo, too. I started with the superbit Fifth Element and Monsters Inc.

First of all, I notice the blacks are noticeably washed out due to the Denon being defaulted to a black level setting that has to be shut off. After that, I used the THX Optimizer on the Monsters Inc. DVD to adjust my Samsung DLP a bit. I think the Denon has a little more luma output than the Bravo. On playback, The Fifth Element looked fine, but Monsters Inc. had lots of macroblocking in the shadows... way more than my Bravo. I noticed this right away. Even my wife, who is no videophile, noticed the problem. I have to say that the clarity and detail of the Denon 720p DVI output is not any better than the Bravo D1, IMHO. Don't get me wrong, the picture is impressive... just not any better (plus definitely has macroblocking issues with certain types of source material).

Annoyingly, 4:3 material is stretched with the Denon. So, classic movies and childrens DVD's that are 4:3 do not play in the correct aspect ratio using the DVI output with the Samsung DLP. You can switch to component 480p to overcome this, of course... but it is a pain in the butt and defeats the purpose of having a DVI enabled scaling DVD player. The Samsung DLP does not have a way to correct for this on the DVI input, either.

So, I was hoping the Denon was going to be great... but like the Zenith 318, it is a disappointment that it won't work for my particular setup. I'll be returning the Denon to Crutchfield for a refund.

I have seen many 3 panel DLP and LCD sets that could have benefitted from a little tweaking of their panel alignments. Some were noticeably out of mechanical alignment, causing color fringes on every pixel.

CJ