The Official Low-Band VHF (2 - 6) Reception Thread - Page 3

taz,
Lowband VHFs (chs 2-6) suffer from all sorts of electrical interference. Power pole transformers, electric motors, computers, autos, lightning. These channels also travel much farther at night than other channels, all things being equal. In the evenings, you may get wildly fluctuating signals due to distant stations on the same channel, hopping hundreds of miles via e-skip or tropo and interfering with the channel you're trying to receive. This problem changes with atmospheric conditions and is worse in different areas of the country and at different times of the day and year.

My best results receiving our local lowband low power VHF digital (ch 5 @ only 1kW ERP) have been with cut to channel antennas, CM baluns and CM 7777 VHF/UHF preamps. YMMV, of course.

LOL, stop by any laundry/dry cleaners.....

I can understand how you can easily combine a low-VHF and UHF antenna together with a splitter/combiner, but what if you want to add a single channel dipole to a full range VHF/UHF Winegard? Is it also as simple as using a combiner? What about the potential differences in transmission line lengths? Or something else I don't know about?


Thanks,
Mike

Use a ChannelMaster single-channel "Jointenna" combiner.

I finally got around to building one of these today, and it seems to work quite well. I'll have to compare it to my rabbit ears, but it seems to be able to pull in a usable signal in more locations in my room over the ears. The peak signal quality seems to be about the same. More A-B testing is needed.

I did more A-B testing, and it seems that the rabbit ears are still winning, if just by a slight margin. Beats me on why; maybe I was off on the velocity factor.

I was just reading this, and it looks like there's about a month before stations will have to start making decisions on where they want to stay. This is of note because there's an option for stations with 2 VHF-lo channel assignments (like WBBM-TV 2/WBBM-DT 3) to give up both of their assigned channels and roll the dice for channels in the second round of elections which become available after this round:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/dlrf/one.php?id=691

The Sitco PA-24 looks like a good pre-amp for VHF (low noise/high output) I emailed megahz.com who sells CATV equipment and they want 387.99 for just the preamp without the power supply. Damn

I have a Lindsay 9RY6C cut to channel yagi with cantilever mount if anyone needs a high gain Ch.6 antenna. And I do mean HIGH GAIN - 12.7dbi / I also have a Wade WL 2-4/S Log Periodic for channel 2-4 with 9dbi and 25db f/b ratio. PM me if interested

I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to all of the folks who have participated in this thread.

I've read every post and followed most links and learned more about possible solutions to my problems from reading in over the past couple of days than I have for the past year.

I have a lowly Channel 2 DTV signal and all the rest are UHF. Due to grounding issues and WAF a big antenna outside isn't an option. It looks like a low band VHF or even a home-made diplole combined with a UHF bowtie or yagi in the attic might just be the ticket for me.

Thanks again!

(btw, zipcode 32312, two story asphalt shingle house with LOTS of 40'+ trees if anybody wants to look at my 'challenge')

Just as an update, WBBM-TV has decided to enter the second round of the channel election, giving up their dibs on channels 2 or 3. I guess the noise and low ERP was too much for them, so they are moving on to greener, higher frequency pastures.

Hi folks.

I live on the far west Side of Chicago (Austin neigborhood) about 8-10 miles from the Sears and Hancock towers.

I have an amplified StealthTenna in my attic, and am able to drag in all the digitals that antennaweb says I can except for WBBMDT. On that one, which is on real channel 3, I get either low signal to noise or high bit errors depending on where I move the antenna to. I never successfully get a lock for long. So I'm guessing EMI is killing me somewhere along the way, especially since I've got diagonal interference on 2 and 5 analog. I get a fairly strong power level on the wbbmdt so gain doesn't appear to be the problem.

I will need to pay an installer to put an antenna on the roof if that is necessary (and around here, the neighbors don't have issues with aerials) so 1. Is that likely to help and 2. If that is necessary, should a better antenna be obtained as it seems silly to pay someone to put this wimpy little antenna up?

Thanks,

Amy

http://www.starkelectronic.com/winp12.htm#TACO
It might be easiest to get a nice little 5 element single-channel, or a 4 element from that covers channels 2-6 here:
http://www.antennasdirect.com/VHF%20...20listings.htm
Oooh, an outdoor VHF/UHF combiner, nice.

There are also VHF antennas that cover 2-13 for around the same price, give or take.
Then again, maybe this is a bit too much gain for like 10 miles. Maybe the V15 from antennadirect or an antenna like it would work better. It's 95" wide, which is slightly bigger than the channel 3 dipole width.

Getting the antenna outside it a good way to put walls/roofing between your antenna and whatever noise you have inside your house. Here, I have computers and monitors that put out a dB or two of noise into the VHF-lo band. Getting antenna away from these sources helps the signal to noise ratio (turning the electronics off also helps. )

If you don't happen to have anything that's too noisy on VHF-lo, you can try your luck with indoor antennas. I have two that I use here, the MANT250 (though anything with 44-inch ears will do):
http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop...ni/mant250.htm
And an 89inch twin-lead dipole antenna taped to a long piece of wood:
http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/dipole.html

Greetings once again low-band lovers.
The first-round channel election deadline is almost here (the 10th), and I skimmed the apps for other low-band results. I saw a few channels opting not to go back to their low-band NTSC assigned stations, and 1 station so far opting to stick with the low-band digital they already have, WDKY-TV 56/-DT 4 out of Danville, Kentucky.

There's more than one, though most are in the mountains out west. I imagine that some of them might try to get a hold of a better channel in round 3.

KYES-5/6 Anchorage, AK chose 5
KJNP-4/20 North Pole, AK chose 4
KTNL-13/2 Sitka, AK chose 2
WDIQ-2/11 Dozier, AL chose 2 (I have no idea why)
KIEM-3/16 Eureka, CA chose 3 (again, no idea why)
KRMA-6/18 Denver, CO chose 6 (see above comment)
KGTF-12/5 Agana, GU chose 5
WDKY-56/4 Danville, KY chose 4 (see Note 1 at the bottom)
WGVK-52/5 Kalamazoo, MI chose 5
WSKY-4 Manteo, NC chose to stay put
KBJN-3 Ely, NV chose to stay put
KVBC-3/2 Las Vegas, NV chose 2
KOTA-3/2 Rapid City, SD chose 2
KUSD-2/34 Vermillion, SD chose 2 (no idea why)
WMC-5/52 Memphis, TN chose 5 (see Note 2 at the bottom)
WTVF-5/56 Nashville, TN chose 5 (see Note 2 at the bottom)
WBRA-15/3 Roanoke, VA chose 3
WDTV-5/6 Weston, WV chose 5
KJWY-2/14 Jackson, WY chose 2

Note 1: Sinclair has only elected to return to VHFs or stay with a VHF in two cases: WLOS-13/56 in Asheville, and WDKY. My guess is they want to get a better allotment in round 3.

Note 2: My guess is that these will try to move off in round 3, but I'm not sure.

There's still 900 elections left to be made in the next two days. I'll update with them when they show up on the FCC site.

- Trip

With just over 500 stations that will be making elections today, here's the list of low VHF elections so far:

Elected Channel 2:

KTNL-13/2 CBS/PAX Sitka, AK
WDIQ-2/11 PBS Dothan, AL
KNAZ-2/22 NBC Flagstaff, AZ
KREX-5/2 CBS Grand Junction, CO
WCES-20/2 PBS Wrens, GA
WLBZ-2/25 NBC Bangor, ME
WWMT-2/3 CBS Kalamazoo, MI
KNOP-2/22 NBC North Platte, NE
KVBC-3/2 NBC Las Vegas, NV
KOTA-3/2 ABC Rapid City, SD
KUSD-2/34 PBS Vermillion, SD
KBEJ-2 UPN Fredricksburg, TX
KJWY-2/14 NBC Jackson, WY

Elected Channel 3:

KIEM-3/16 NBC Eureka, CA
WDLP-22/3 IND Key West, FL
KYUS-3/13 NBC Miles City, MT
KBJN-3 NBC Ely, NV
KDLO-3/2 CBS Florence, SD
WBRA-15/3 PBS Roanoke, VA

Elected Channel 4:

KJNP-4/20 Rel. North Pole, AK
WHBF-4/58 CBS Rock Island, IL
WDKY-56/4 FOX Danville, KY
WSKY-4 Ind. Manteo, NC
WOAY-4/50 ABC Oak Hill, WV

Elected Channel 5:

KYES-5/6 UPN Anchorage, AK
WABW-14/5 PBS Pelham, GA
KGTF-12/5 PBS Agana, GU
WOI-5/59 ABC Des Moines, IA
WBKP-5/11 ABC Calumet, MI
WGVK-52/5 PBS Kalamazoo, MI
KXLF-4/5 CBS Butte, MT
KHAS-5/21 NBC Hastings, NE
WLMB-40/5 Rel. Toledo, OH
KOBI-5/15 NBC Medford, OR
WMC-5/52 NBC Memphis, TN
WTVF-5/56 CBS Nashville, TN
WCYB-5/28 NBC Bristol, TN
WDTV-5/6 CBS Weston, WV

Elected Channel 6:

KRMA-6/18 PBS Denver, CO
KBSD-6/5 CBS Ensign, KS
KTVM-6/33 NBC Butte, MT
WRGB-6/39 CBS Albany, NY
NEW-6 PBS Casper, WY

I'll update this list tomorrow.

- Trip

Final Low-VHF list posted.

I want to note that in many of the areas with Low-VHF elections, especially in the eastern US, there are other high-VHF frequencies that are open. It is my guess that in round 2 or 3 some of them (KNAZ, KREX, WLBZ, WWMT, KVBC, KOTA, KIEM, WDLP, WSKY, KYES, KXLF, KTVM, WRGB) will attempt to acquire these frequencies.

Again, that's just my guess.

- Trip

I'm in process of making a folded dipole antenna to try to pick up WWMT (Freq Assing. 2) from about 31 miles. Is there anything I can do to improve my chances? How precise does the length have to be? Am I better to error on the side of too short or too long?

Because they have no other choices until all of the analogs are turned off. They tried (twice) to get their original allotment (Ch4) changed to Ch22 and were denied. So, I suspect they'll tough it out in the mire until the dust settles.

PS: They are also one of the few Sinclair owned DT stations be carried on a cable system.

It needs to be fairly close, but not critical. For a half wave dipole for channel 2 (54-60 MHz) , each leg needs to be around 50 inches.

http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/dipole.html
Seems they've already done the work for you.
I didn't find it that hard to make my channel 3 dipole 89 inches long, but me, if I had to err, I would err on the dipole being too long rather than short, though an inch plus or minus shouldn't matter a great deal.

Channel 56 is out of core. All elections must be in the 2-51 range.

RabbitEars, since you seem to know a lot about the FCC and dtv channel elections I wonder if you could shed some light on why KVBC couldn't get their allotment changed, especially since in the same market KVVU sucessfully petitioned to have their allotment changed from 24 to 9. Why couldn't they just ask for channel 24 since it should be available? Also, do you know when Class A's get their digital assignments?

My guess is that KVBC intends to move to a 7-13 allocation at the end of the transition and thus made their choice for a low-VHF (so in Round three they could move).

If you're referring to why they didn't get one DURING the transition, it's likely to save as much money as possible. I saw several stations do that.

- Trip (RabbitEars, lol, makes me feel respected)

Trip, well I don't think that will be possible if the FCC wants a channel seperation between DT stations(even though they work fine without them) as KLAS will be at 7, KVVU on 9, KLVX 11, and KTNV(the only station returning to it's analog in Vegas) on 13.

The FCC doesn't need spacing between channels. It could go 7-8-9-10-11-12-13 without a problem, as long as they transmit from within a few miles of each other.

- Trip

Right now, Chicago has an analog channel on 50 and digital channels on 51, 52, and 53.