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Richmond, VA - HDTV - Page 287

post #8581 of 8853
26kw is actually quite respectable for a VHF-HI station. I believe the height of the antenna is the issue more than anything else.

I too have been disappointed that we can't get WWBT at my friends house near Madison; even with a dedicated VHF-HI antenna. (Not even a whiff) All the other Richmond stations come in well, including WUPV.
post #8582 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

26kw is actually quite respectable for a VHF-HI station. I believe the height of the antenna is the issue more than anything else.

I too have been disappointed that we can't get WWBT at my friends house near Madison; even with a dedicated VHF-HI antenna. (Not even a whiff) All the other Richmond stations come in well, including WUPV.

How high is their tower?
post #8583 of 8853
The FCC site indicates 242 meters above average terrain. The other stations run in the low to mid 300's. I believe WWBT has an antenna mounted on the side of a tower, versus the top, but not 100% sure.

VHF just isn't as good as UHF for digital TV for the most part no matter what the power level. DC's VHF stations (7 & 9) are pumping out 52kw's & aren't watchable at my frinds house near Madison. About half of the DC UHF stations are decent with only an occasional dropout.
post #8584 of 8853
WWBT's channel 54 antenna was a side mount, but I believe the 12 antenna is a top-mount.

- Trip
post #8585 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Rules View Post

The FCC site indicates 242 meters above average terrain. The other stations run in the low to mid 300's. I believe WWBT has an antenna mounted on the side of a tower, versus the top, but not 100% sure.

VHF just isn't as good as UHF for digital TV for the most part no matter what the power level. DC's VHF stations (7 & 9) are pumping out 52kw's & aren't watchable at my frinds house near Madison. About half of the DC UHF stations are decent with only an occasional dropout.

That's pure BS. How about giving us some supporting data as to that statement.

I'm in Mathews County and have no trouble with Channel 12. Also our ABC channel in Hampton Roads 47 miles away is VHF 13 and it's just fine.
post #8586 of 8853
I'm glad it works for you. That doesn't change the fact that UHF is almost universally considered to be superior to VHF. Dozens of stations have jumped from VHF to UHF, and not because they think VHF is superior and they decided to downgrade their coverage.

- Trip
post #8587 of 8853
I have more trouble with VHF more than the UHF by far at other locations as well I've installed antennas. Every thunderstorm causes dropouts where the UHF's are unaffected. Airplane flutter also affects VHF more than UHF in most cases.

With state of the art outside mounted antennas, I feel UHF is more reliable for most viewers with digital television. If you read through some of the posts regarding other VHF-HI stations around the country, you'll find a lot of other posters with the same conclusion.
post #8588 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I'm glad it works for you. That doesn't change the fact that UHF is almost universally considered to be superior to VHF. Dozens of stations have jumped from VHF to UHF, and not because they think VHF is superior and they decided to downgrade their coverage.

- Trip

They didn't jump anywhere. They were assigned those UHF channels for the changeover from analog. Come on give me some data to back up the superior statement.
post #8589 of 8853
one of many

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/docume...?id=7021031588

.... Licensee explained in the Petition that it sought the channel substitution because the Station was experiencing significant technical difficulties after commencing digital operations on VHF Channel 8 at the end ofthe DTV Transition. The Petition stated that a sizable number of the Station's viewers no longer could receive the Station's over-the-air signal as a result ofVHF reception difficulties. After some eighteen months ofVHF DTV operation, Licensee is seeing
no evidence ofa recovery in the Station's over-the-air ratings, leading it to conclude with
certainty that viewers would be better served if the Station switched to UHF channel 31 -its pre-transition DTV channel -rather than continue operations on the VHF channel.
post #8590 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjriver View Post

They didn't jump anywhere. They were assigned those UHF channels for the changeover from analog. Come on give me some data to back up the superior statement.

Er, yes, they did jump. Not all of these are VHF to UHF moves, but here's a complete list of every channel change requested since the beginning of 2008. http://www.rabbitears.info/petitions.php?active=A

- WLS-7 Chicago, pre-transition digital 52, went back to 7 for the transition, ultimately moved to 44 citing reception problems.
- KTVT-11 Dallas, pre-transition digital 19, went back to 11 for the transition, but by July filed to move back to 19 and in doing so had to relocate co-owned KTXA to 29, a move now approved and implemented. In their petition, they cited a drop in the ratings due to viewer reception problems.
- WHDH-7 Boston, pre-transition digital 42, went back to 7 for the transition, but took only three days to light 42 back up citing reception problems and ultimately moved back there permanently.
- WJW-8 Cleveland, pre-transition digital 31, went back to 8 for the transition, filed a few months ago to move back to 31, citing reception problems. It remains pending with the FCC.
- KMBC-9 Kansas City, pre-transition digital 7, was assigned 9 for the transition, but filed before the transition to move instead to channel 29, because even at 85 kW (!) on channel 7, they received hundreds or thousands of reception complaints. They're now happily putting out 1000 kW on channel 29 without issue.

The story repeats itself with WSYX, WCPO, WTVF, WBIQ, WGHP (foxeng did actual side-by-side testing that showed the VHF signal to be inferior to the UHF signal), WVUE, KWTV, WINK, WMSN, KVIA, KTSM, WBTW, KKTV, WKYT, WDKY, WJHL, KWCH, WLBT, WJTV, WNCT, WRDW, and WLOX.

Plus there's the list of "VHF Nightmares" that I've been maintaining since the transition, which includes power increases and other mitigating factors VHF stations have tried, other than channel changes. http://www.rabbitears.info/vhf.php

- Trip
post #8591 of 8853
Has anyone else having issues with their scheduled recordings? I have had two occasions where the DVR has "lost" a scheduled recording and not recorded.

Another question - Does anyone know if there is a list of commands/cheats for the new guide? I miss being able to press "play" during live shows to go to slow motion. Pause then fast forward used to be a frame by frame advance.

Thanks,
Barry
post #8592 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by blb1215 View Post

Another question - Does anyone know if there is a list of commands/cheats for the new guide? I miss being able to press "play" during live shows to go to slow motion. Pause then fast forward used to be a frame by frame advance.

Thanks,
Barry

On your DVR, to watch a section in slow-motion, press the play button, then the pause button and then the FF button one time to go slow motion forward or the REW button once to go backwards in slow motion. To dismiss the DVR transport bar, simply press the exit key on the remote control.
post #8593 of 8853
Hi,

I'm moving to the area. Before we move into our house, I want to get cat5 and rg6 pulled and correctly installed to most rooms in the house. Any recommendations for either electricians or home theater types who will do this "right" ( I don't want a cable/sat guy type job with wires draped outside the house, and no wall plates). About what would I expect to pay for something like this? I've heard anywhere from $100 to $200 per outlet. Is that about right?

Thanks,

Drew
post #8594 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewwho View Post

Hi,

I'm moving to the area. Before we move into our house, I want to get cat5 and rg6 pulled and correctly installed to most rooms in the house. Any recommendations for either electricians or home theater types who will do this "right" ( I don't want a cable/sat guy type job with wires draped outside the house, and no wall plates). About what would I expect to pay for something like this? I've heard anywhere from $100 to $200 per outlet. Is that about right?

Thanks,

Drew

Pull cat6... I ran cat6 to almost every room in our two story house. You really only need one outlet per room. You could always add a small gigaswitch off of the one outlet (i've done this in three places.) I have two larger gigaswitches with one in the crawl to serve my downstairs rooms and another gigaswitch in the attic for the upstairs rooms...

(make sure that cat6-rated jacks are also used)
post #8595 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by VARTV View Post

Pull cat6... I ran cat6 to almost every room)

Indeed, I should have said cat6. I pulled it myself to just 3 locations in my current 2 story in NC, and it was such a pain that I really want to hire it done this time. Do any home-theater type operations do this, or am I better off just trying to find an electrician? Anybody hired this done on an existing house recently?

Before somebody says "just use wireless", I'll also say that I use SageTV, and the ethernet is for the SageTV HD media extenders. While its theoretically possible to get one to work with wireless, sustaining multiple simultaneous 19Mb/s streams to play HD recordings (and even 36Mb/s for BD rips) when you have 2 or 3 extenders is pushing it.

I'm kind of looking forward to seeing how my tuners perform in the new house, which should be a bit closer to the Richmond towers than I currently am in Raleigh. I may have to trade in my CM4228 for something smaller.

Thanks,

Drew
post #8596 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewwho View Post

Indeed, I should have said cat6. I pulled it myself to just 3 locations in my current 2 story in NC, and it was such a pain that I really want to hire it done this time. Do any home-theater type operations do this, or am I better off just trying to find an electrician? Anybody hired this done on an existing house recently?

Before somebody says "just use wireless", I'll also say that I use SageTV, and the ethernet is for the SageTV HD media extenders. While its theoretically possible to get one to work with wireless, sustaining multiple simultaneous 19Mb/s streams to play HD recordings (and even 36Mb/s for BD rips) when you have 2 or 3 extenders is pushing it.

I'm kind of looking forward to seeing how my tuners perform in the new house, which should be a bit closer to the Richmond towers than I currently am in Raleigh. I may have to trade in my CM4228 for something smaller.

Thanks,

Drew

You're going OTA in Richmond? Good luck especially with NBC 12 (WWBT)
post #8597 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewwho View Post

Indeed, I should have said cat6. I pulled it myself to just 3 locations in my current 2 story in NC, and it was such a pain that I really want to hire it done this time.
Thanks,

Drew

Ah, OK... For me it was fairly easy (some hiccups on the way) but VERY time consuming. Good luck with your project.
post #8598 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjriver View Post

You're going OTA in Richmond? Good luck especially with NBC 12 (WWBT)

Just out of curiosity how many miles to the station and is your antenna indoor or outdoor.
post #8599 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewwho View Post

Hi,

I'm moving to the area. Before we move into our house, I want to get cat5 and rg6 pulled and correctly installed to most rooms in the house. Any recommendations for either electricians or home theater types who will do this "right" ( I don't want a cable/sat guy type job with wires draped outside the house, and no wall plates). About what would I expect to pay for something like this? I've heard anywhere from $100 to $200 per outlet. Is that about right?

Thanks,

Drew

You might want to check with the local cable provider to see if they have a contractor that can do "custom" installs. Way back in my past I worked in the office of a Cox contractor in Virginia Beach that did these custom installs that you want. Yes, electricians can do it as well. If you call someone where the operator isn't familiar with the term "custom" (different areas may use different terms), just say you want your TV cable fished down interior walls from your attic to wall plates. That should be enough to describe the job you want. When I was working at the contractor, the rate charged was $40/hr. This was over 10 years ago.... $100-$200 PER OUTLET?! Wow, I hope that's not the case now... I could see maybe $100/hr if the assumption is approx. 1hr per outlet average (I seem to recall that was the time estimate I gave to customers on the phone) .... That still seems steep to me but like I said, I've out of that business for some time.

Good luck....
post #8600 of 8853
I provided Drew with a name of a custom installer/ integrator (in Richmond) that I have worked with in the past. He will work with the customer for a solution, not just a $ale.

If anyone wants the name, please PM me.

Thanks,
Rodney
post #8601 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by VARTV View Post

Ah, OK... For me it was fairly easy (some hiccups on the way) but VERY time consuming. Good luck with your project.

My current house in NC was "easy" for me too. The house originally had the water heater in the attic, which we relocated to the garage before a sudden failure could flood our house. I was able to use the abandoned drain line as a conduit between the attic and the crawl space. Without that "conduit", I don't think I could have done a decent job, as I really, really, really stink at fishing wires. Even that job was a huge pain, and quite scary, crawling around in trussed, un-floored portions of the attic (below which was a 2-story foyer ceiling), getting insulation down my clothes, etc. I'll gladly pay to avoid doing that again.

Drew
post #8602 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjriver View Post

You're going OTA in Richmond? Good luck especially with NBC 12 (WWBT)

I've heard that is quite hard to get. We'll be about 12 miles away, probably using multiple attic antennas (it all depends on which house we get, wife & I have it down to 2 or 3 candidates at this point). If worst comes to worst, I think I could probably get WVIR pretty well. I currently get my Fox and ABC from a neighboring market because our local broadcasters have terrible HD bandwidth. According to tvfool, WVIR is closer by about 8 miles (and should be stronger by about 20db) as compared to the Fox and ABC stations I'm currently using.

BTW, here in the Raleigh Durham market, a lot of broadcasters have terrible HD bandwidth (13Mb/s or less) because they are either silly, and run an HD sub in addition to the main channel (ABC), or they are too high-tech and run an SD sub plus a few Mobile DTV subs (Fox, CBS). Are broadcasters in Richmond doing the same thing, or do you guys mostly have glorious 19Mb/s HD, unencumbered by secondary subchannels?

Drew
post #8603 of 8853
I can run through it quickly for you.

=====

WTVR-6 (CBS) has two SD subs with a VBR encoder. Last time I checked, WTVR's HD bitrate can spike as high as 16, not sure if that's changed recently or not.

WCAV-19 (CBS) has a single SD sub with a VBR encoder on the HD but set to a hard limit. Approaches but does not reach 14 Mbps.

=====

WRIC-8 (ABC) has a single SD sub with a CBR encoder. The HD bitrate is a constant 15.3 Mbps.

=====

WWBT-12 (NBC) has a single SD weather sub. Not sure if it's constant or variable, but last night I got the HD at 15.45 Mbps.

WVIR-29 (NBC) has two SD subs, with the HD at a constant 13 Mbps. The station plans to install new encoding gear this summer.

=====

WRLH-35 (FOX) has two SD subs. I've seen their bitrate go as high as 14 Mbps.

=====

WUPV-65 (CW) has no subs, but will be adding Bounce TV at some point. Bitrate is variable, up to 18.3 Mbps.

=====

WCVE-23 (PBS) and WHTJ-41 (PBS) have two subs, SD are CBR but HD is VBR with a hard limit of 13 Mbps.

WCVW-57 (PBS) has no subs and a VBR encoder. Gets as high as 17.5 Mbps.

=====

I listed the three full-power Charlottesville stations as well, in case you manage to receive them.

- Trip
post #8604 of 8853
Hey all,

I'm going to be living in an apartment building downtown (zip 23219) on the 5th floor in an apartment facing east. I'm going to try an over-the-air antenna to get the local channels.

Any suggestions on a good antenna to get?

Thanks!
post #8605 of 8853
As promised, WCVW 2 was removed locally from Verizon FiOS today. I guess it didn't have a purpose anymore since it's now the same thing as channels 24 and 524. In it's place will be WTVR 6.2, Antenna TV. The channel hasn't shown up yet, but the program guide is there on channel 479.
post #8606 of 8853
Anyone else notice the HD picture quality on FIOS has gotten rather bad? I'm seeing more and more compression artifacts when on-screen activity is only moderately high. It's visible on the cable networks and video-on-demand. Resident Evil: Afterlife was almost unwatchable via VOD due to poor picture quality (and poor acting and plot, but that's beside the point). AMC is also a lost cause; it usually looks like a 240p video off of YouTube shown full screen.

Are these issues from the source material? Or, is it Verizon?
post #8607 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad5871 View Post

Hey all,

I'm going to be living in an apartment building downtown (zip 23219) on the 5th floor in an apartment facing east. I'm going to try an over-the-air antenna to get the local channels.

Any suggestions on a good antenna to get?

Thanks!

Are you looking for an indoor antenna or will you have a porch to use for antenna placement?
post #8608 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by che2cbs View Post

Anyone else notice the HD picture quality on FIOS has gotten rather bad? I'm seeing more and more compression artifacts when on-screen activity is only moderately high. It's visible on the cable networks and video-on-demand. Resident Evil: Afterlife was almost unwatchable via VOD due to poor picture quality (and poor acting and plot, but that's beside the point). AMC is also a lost cause; it usually looks like a 240p video off of YouTube shown full screen.

Are these issues from the source material? Or, is it Verizon?


AMC is an AMC issue. They compress the daylights out of what they send down the line. It's unwatchable, but that is not Verizon doing that. Here's the explanation why it looks that way


http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r25699167-
post #8609 of 8853
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBri99 View Post

Are you looking for an indoor antenna or will you have a porch to use for antenna placement?

Indoor.
post #8610 of 8853
I live in Chester in an older subdivision. Based on all the stuff I've read/heard, if a place doesn't have FIOS, it ain't gonna get it. I've more or less made my piece with that (well, not really... I hate Comcast winning anything by default...).

Anyway, last week, I and all of my neighbors had big orange tags hanging from our doorknobs when we came home from work. Big Verizon logo at the top.
Starts off saying that an authorized contractor for Verizon will

"begin installation of fiber optic cable in your community within the next few days... part of a nationwide project to advance... voice, data, internet and other services by extending the fiber directly to each home."

PLEASE tell me this means that, through some sort of intervention— divine or otherwise— I will soon be able to choose FIOS.

That's how I read it, bit it does run counter to FIOS expansion being the "done deal" I thought was.
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