Miami / Ft. Lauderdale, FL - HDTV - Page 222

Several days ago they acknowledged numerous calls with the problem but today they completely failed to address the problem on their end. NBC 6 instead of addressing viewers concern point their finger at the viewing public using ota.

After numerous rescans the problem was still there as expected but their response was again to cast blame on the viewer.

The telephone number to NBC 6 is 305-379-6666 and the person I spoke with is Kirk Davis who claimed was an engineer.


Reception is still on on 31.3 31.4 31.5 and and not on 6.1 6.2 6.3 as should be and there is nothing NBC 6 is apparently willing to do about it.

If you have over the air and are experiencing the same problems please contact them so hopefully they can be resolved.

Also please post the results of your conversation. Thanks

I would report it to the FCC. They'll stop real quick once they get a call from them. You can not broadcast on frequencies that are not licensed to you.

What evidence is there that the station is broadcasting on an unlicensed frequency?

- Trip

Happy Friday To Everyone,
Yesterday channel 6 experienced rare problem with a PSIP generator. This generator glitched and went offline. The PSIP generator translates NBC 6's actual channel, which is RF 31, to our virtual channel 6. Off air viewers saw this as a drop out on channel 6. Doing a rescan of converter boxes and off air receivers brought the signal back to viewers' boxes but not on our virtual channel of 6 but our actual channel of 31. We replaced the faulty component yesterday so a rescan of your converter box or receiver will now bring you back to channel 6.

You see, in this age of digital technology, the channel that you view broadcasts stations may or may not be the actual channel frequency that is broadcast from the digital transmitter. Here at NBC our digital transmitter broadcasts on RF channel 31 (575 MHz). We digitally translate that channel to channel 6. This was done when I first turned on the digital transmitter on July 1, 2003. We did this to minimize confusion. Our off air analog was channel 6 and our off air digital virtual reception is channel 6. I hope this clears things up.

Please understand that at times it may seem that the engineers at the station are not interested in ensuring the best reception quality to the public, but in truth this is far from the truth. We all care a great deal about quality and are willing to work around the clock to ensure that you're getting the best possible picture, sound and customer service. We all know how hard the bad economy has hit our great nation. The television industry has not been immune to its effects. The engineer that you spoke to over the phone was busy trying to resolve the problem at the same time as speaking to you. We are two-handed people doing jobs that require a dozen hands. But, with that said, we are determined to make sure that you the customer are taken care of.

If you have any more questions please feel free to email me at Earnest.Walker@nbcuni.com

I’ve been hoping/waiting for better response

It was time for channel 6 to step up and acknowledge there was a problem although I'm disappointed some of your statements are inaccurate or disingenuous.

How could channel 6 be working on a solution as you claim when they failed to acknowledge the problem.

In the interest of accuracy channel 6 and its engineering department were informed of the problems, therefore claims it was a rare incident are inaccurate or disingenuous.

It became incredibly frustrating channel 6 engineering kept denying having further problems and instead continued its state of denial when they suggested the viewer should rotate their ota rooftop antenna or call the manufacturer of the unit because the station was transmitting properly according to them.

I'm disappointed by the lack of communication, the viewers notifying the station of the problems who left their number and were instructed by the engineering department to rotate the antenna or call the manufacture of the unit based on the claims by engineering that no problems existed should have been called and informed the ongoing problems were as a result of the stations equipment not the viewers. Let's make one thing perfectly clear, the continuous issues were not isolated to just one day as you would have others believe.

Although I disagree with your version of events, thank you for taking the time to post on avs forum and acknowledging that channel 6 was in fact experiencing problems.

I just e-mailed Earnest to find out what's happening with the out-of-phase audio on live studio broadcasts (e.g., local news).

The audio has been this way for probably over a year (I lost count of how many months), and nobody seems to acknowledge this or care about it, including the viewing public as well as people on this board.

When I see an announcer/anchor/reporter in the middle of my screen, I expect their voice to come directly from the center channel. It's this way on every other newscast in South Florida except for NBC6. On 6, anchors' voices come from all around without any kind of focus whatsoever. It's extremely annoying, and I really wish that NBC6 would either admit that's the way they want it, or fix it!

I reported this same problem to Earnest 2 years ago. I think they have problems to figure what a 5.1 system is.

I received a reply from Earnest earlier. He advised that he'd get back to me on this. I'm hopeful.

Did you not read vtpsystems' post?


If he's picking up NBC6 OTA on those frequencies, they don't belong to Ch. 6.

WTVJ is licensed to operate on channel 31 with a virtual channel 6-1. In the event of equipment failure, WTVJ would instead begin displaying as 31-3 on some TVs. I see nothing relating to unlicensed broadcasting.

- Trip

Exactly, they're not licensed to operate on virtual channel 31.3, 31.4, or 31.5.

OK, let's try this again.

WTVJ is licensed to broadcast on RF channel 31 and virtual channel 6. Nowhere did anyone say that channel 31 was virtual.

When your digital TV shows 6, that's the PSIP simply telling you what the "fake" channel is. All the while, the signal is being broadcast over true channel 31.

When the PSIP takes a dump, there's nothing to tell the TV what the "fake" channel is, so the TV has no choice but to indicate the real channel.

The bottom line here is that they are in fact broadcasting over their licensed frequency.

I see, thanks.

Kudos to Earnest Walker and the engineering staff at NBC6. They finally fixed the out-of-phase sound for their local news broadcast!

I'm new to this forum. I just got a TERK HDTVo antenna, which is mounted on a balcony 9 flights up in South Beach, with a clear view of where the broadcast antennas are.

When I first ran the auto-selection program on a TV, it found "3 analog and 56 digital" stations. After removing those stations not in English, and a few that looked like an old analog signal with mostly static, and a few more that couldn't decode, I ended up with around 25 stations. After removing the shopping channels, and anything else that wasn't a good clear signal (in English) I now have 15 channels.

Is 15 channels a reasonable number for the Miami area?
Should I post a list of what channels I ended up with?
Is there any kind of list of what others have found?


I was hoping I would find more channels showing movies, but I guess that's not the case. There are very few of those.

Go to http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php -- select Miami (market #15) and click on "Expand All". You will get a list of all the local stations with their sub-channels along identification of the content, if known.

I guess I'm just too new here to realize how all this stuff works. I'm confused about the digital channel numbers - let me use one for an example.

On the above link, there is one line for WIMP-CD (whatever the CD means???) and it is on "Display Channel" 25, also listed as "Digital Channel 25.

On my TV, I found the following:
WIMP D1 on 25-1
WIMP D2 on 25-2
WIMP D3 on 25-3
WIMP D4 on 25-4

How would someone know from the link listed above that instead of one station to watch, there are four?

Why does the link say these are on "25" when I have to type in "25.2" for example, to get the second one?



My best guess is that the link is not up to date, as when I click on "expand all" I get to see multiple listings for many of the other stations (but not WIMP).

===================================

How about WLRN? On my set, I've found it to be accessible as 17-1 and 17-2, but on the link up above, it says that there is a digital channel of 20.1 and 20.2????

===================================

While I'm at it, is there a difference between 20.2 and 20-2????


.....am I just dense, and ignorant, or is the "general public" expected to understand how all this works?

Hello:

I own and operate RabbitEars. Let me see if I can clear up your confusion.

First of all, I want you to bear in mind that RabbitEars exists primarily as my personal project. As I'm a very technical person, the website contains a lot of technical details which may be hard for people who are not as familiar with digital broadcasting to understand. Your confusion may stem from this.


CD = Class A Digital. I may have mentioned that on the FAQ page. If I did not, my apologies.


My listings rely on the information of others, and to date, nobody has told me what programming is on WIMP-CD. In the absence of any information, I erred on the side of caution and listed only the programming I could confirm was present on the channel.

You note there are four services on WIMP-CD. Would you be able to fill me in on what programming each subchannel has on it?


As you noted, the other stations have this listed correctly. My listings are simply incomplete.


If you hover over the little gray headers, it pops up additional information about each column. The 17-x channels are what you see on your receiver. For the 20.x listings, the 20 represents the channel WLRN transmits on, which is now channel 20 rather than 17 even though it displays as 17. The FCC decided that since people know WLRN as channel 17, it made sense to ensure that it would display on the TV as channel 17-1, 17-2, etc regardless of what channel it was actually on. The technology responsible for this is known as "PSIP," but that's unnecessary knowledge if you're just watching.

The .x (in 20.x) refers to the MPEG-2 program number, which is something technical that most people will never see. (Some TVs such as Sony models make use of this information for manually entering in missing channels.)


I think I explained this adequately above. If not, I can try again.


As I said, some of it is a case of incomplete information through no fault of my own, and some of it is that my site caters to my taste for more technical information than most people need. I hope I've managed to clear up some of your questions. If there's anything further I can explain, please let me know.

- Trip

Thanks, Trip. It's amazing that a private individual, even with the help you've got, could put all that together! I've just spent a lot of time going through your site, some of which I do understand, and some of which is beyond my ability to deal with yet - I need to learn more.


I am entering all the information on the channels I receive into an Excel spreadsheet, with two groups - one with the channels in English, and another with all the other languages (mostly Spanish).

I will compare that with what you've got listed on your chart (which will also tell me how many of those stations I am actually able to receive). If I find listings that are not on your chart, I will try to figure out what format you want this submitted in. Specifically, you asked "Would you be able to fill me in on what programming each subchannel has on it?" Are you looking for something similar to "English, product selling advertisements, only daytime" or whatever the case might be?


There is really only one thing right now that I'm thoroughly confused by. In the case of WLRN, you say it's really broadcasting on channel 20, but it displays as channel 17. I think that's confusing already, but it's not a problem. To me, it means that if I do a search somehow for WLRN, it will start playing (having been found on channel 20) but my TV will say it is tuned in to channel 17. Strange, but I guess that's the way things are.

What has me floored, is if I turn on my TV to channel 17.
If I tune to 17, I get static.
If I tune to 17.1 I get PBS.
If I tune to 17.2 I get PBS in Spanish.

How in the world does my TV know that when I try to tune in channel 17, it should switch and show me something on a different channel???? ....and suppose someone wanted to actually broadcast on channel 17, how can they do this when the other station is taking up TWO of the available numbers, both 17 and 20??

Since I can actually tune in both of the PBS stations by going to 20.1 and 20.2, why should I be tuning my set to a "fake" number?


(When I grew up in NYC, I got used to one set of numbers for ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. When I moved to Michigan, the networks were there, but the channel numbers were different. So, I'm used to using different numbers, as needed. It seems to me that we all ought to be using what you have called the "Physical Channel", not the "Display Channel".)

A handy addition to your table would be to list the language that the station broadcasts in. For example, for me, I'm only interested in channels that are in English. Others will have different desires. I think that would make your chart a bit more useful.

I'm glad you like it, and I'm always glad to help explain things when I can.


Sounds good to me. Basically, if it's just all English-language infomercials, then you can just say "English Infomercials." If it has a network name (like WPLG 10-2 is LATV and the logo clearly says so) then I'll take that.


When you scan your TV, it generates a table so that it knows when you put in 17-1 to actually go to 20.1 instead.

For a station which transmits on 17, it will need to show up with a different display channel. W64AN-D has a permit to relocate to channel 17 and should display as 64-x. If a new station was to pop up on 17, the PSIP standard states that it should display as 20-x.


It's your decision whether you want to or not, but most people like to stick with the channel numbers they remembered from analog.


My parents lived much of their lives in NJ outside of NYC. After 15 years, my dad still calls CBS "channel 2" from time to time.

Of course, when you're moving, you expect the channel numbers to be different. The transition was confusing enough for people, telling them to relearn the channel numbers was unlikely to make them any happier.

(Disclaimer: I am a strong proponent of so-called "virtual" channels, to the point that I wrote a blog entry on RabbitEars about it.)

By the way, after your post last night, I immediately went into my code and changed the column labeled "digital channel" to "physical channel" in hopes that it will reduce confusion.


This is a very interesting suggestion. I will definitely take it into consideration; however, I wonder what to do about stations which transmit different languages in SAP.

As a general idea, though, it should be pretty easy to implement. Most network stations should be able to be automated. I'll definitely be thinking this over.

- Trip

Trip, all of the above makes sense to me, and after reading your article write-up on virtual channels, I do see your point. Of course, as I see things myself, your dad is spot-on. Of course CBS is "2", just as NBC should be "4", and ABC should be "7". (If I grew up in Detroit rather than NYC, I'd feel differently...)


There is one thing in your explanation that maybe you could elaborate on a bit more. If I understand you correctly, when someone in Miami does an "auto-tune" with their new TV, the information tells the TV about WLRN for example, and that it should display "17" while tuning in channel "20".

Suppose I get a brand new HDTV, set it up, but do NOT do any of the auto-tuning. I then select the channel "17.1" using the remote control. Since the TV doesn't yet know it's even in Miami (no auto tuning yet), and I haven't yet gone to channel "20.1" which perhaps would tell my TV to indicate that it was on "17.1", my TV doesn't yet know any of this virtual stuff. So, would my TV show an empty "real" channel of 17.1, or would some other function I don't yet know about be able to tell the TV that it's really supposed to tune in 20.1??




Maybe you can answer one other thing for me that I've been puzzling about. I got a Sony XBR7, which includes free TV Guide. I have learned how it works, but I don't have a clue why it does anything. Is TV Guide on a channel? I assume it's probably downloading something from each channel I tune in, or that it's been programmed to look at, and from that data, it puts together the TV Guide display. Is this correct? If not, how does it work?

Suppose I wanted to add TV Guide to a different TV that didn't come with it. Can this be done? Would I need to subscribe?



Also, I like your change - it's more obvious when you say "Display Channel" and "Physical Channel".

Perhaps English(Spanish,Tamil) for a program broadcast in English, with the ability to select other language(s)?

Yes, it would show the empty real channel 17.1. The tuner has no way of knowing anything until its first scan.

Some TVs simply refuse to tune to channels that are not scanned in.


TVGOS is transmitted by WFOR in Miami (note the nifty red TVGOS icon on RabbitEars). It's a free on-screen guide service that your TV can use to display program listings for you. To my knowledge, this is not something that can be added to a receiver that does not have it built in.

Don't confuse TVGOS with the "EIT" data, which is transmitted by each station to show their programming. TVGOS is a proprietary service, whereas the EIT data is publicly accessible. But there's less consistency with EIT, as if I'm recalling correctly, I believe the FCC rules only require guide listings 12 hours out for EIT.

- Trip

Several things are now starting to make a bit more sense to me.

Regarding TV Guide, the note up above explains it completely - even though I clicked on that TVGOS icon, I had no idea what it meant or what it was trying to tell me. (Maybe you can elaborate a bit more when someone puts the cursor over the icon, and the explanation message shows up?).

You've also got one for "Update Tv" on WPBT up above - what does that mean? (Hovering over it I see the message "Update TV Affiliate", but I don't know what this means.) I clicked on several links on your page, and found the link to "www.updatelogic.com/network.html". Suggestion - let this link show up when someone places a cursor over the icon. I'm not even sure right now how I got to the link, as I was just "clicking" trying to figure out why the listing was changing when I clicked on "expand". Anyway, I'm now wondering if this is a service I already have, and if updates to my Sony are being sent out.... one more thing to try to figure out...


.....TV Guide.... I spent several hours trying to put something like this together, before I clicked on "Guide" on my new Sony and there it all was! Now that I know what this feature can do, I'd never purchase a TV that didn't allow it to function. Thanks for the note. Had I known of your site before buying the big (for me) Sony, that would have prevented me from making a mistake. I guess I got lucky - even more so, for having read your explanation here in the forum.

As per your suggestions, those icons now link to the appropriate informational page on RabbitEars.


I'm confused by this sentence, can you elaborate?


If your TV is compatible, then as long as you receive WPBT, you should receive any updates they send out. I remember a few months/years ago, a number of folks with a particular TV model woke up one morning to find their TVs on saying, "a software update has been installed" or something to that effect.


Glad you enjoy it!

- Trip

Let's see if I can replicate what I did...
a) click on http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php
b) click on "Miami, Florida"
c) in the new box, click on "Expand All" near the top.

Now that I know what we're talking about, it all seems obvious, and my comment is silly. I think I clicked on "Expand All" again (which really should change to "Contract") and eventually got myself back to the screen that is intended to be the "Expand All" screen.


....and now I see why I was confused. Do only "a" and "b" as described above, and then click on the link for Update Tv. I may have done that, but I don't remember which page it took me to - possibly "http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php" which is where it takes me now.

...and now do "a", "b", and "c" as described above, and click on the logo after you've already done the "Expand All", and then click on the words "Update TV", not the logo closer to the top. This will take you to "http://www.updatelogic.com/network.html" which was the page that told me what was going on.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess I get off-track too easily, and also confused when I think I'm doing something right but get unexpected results. I've got just two minor suggestions here:
a) Once someone clicks on "Expand All", change that wording on the new page to something that means you go back to the original page, and
b) change the text "Update TV" to something slightly different, as clicking on the logo up above with that same wording takes a person to different sites.

This has nothing to do with our discussion, but I found a fascinating website that I think a lot of people here might enjoy reading. I don't know enough to understand much of it, but here goes:
http://www.fybush.com/site-031120.html

Anyone from NYC will probably be fascinated by this page.

In looking around for more information, I came across a fascinating site where I could enter my location and get the relevant data. In my case, here's the data:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...cd72ddff86b721

Here's the explanation of what this all means (for people here like me, who are just learning a lot of this stuff...)
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...57#how_to_read

The scary thing is, thanks to all your advice, I think I actually understood most of this (unlike the Empire State Building link, which left me totally lost).


I also got the answer to a question I hadn't yet asked you. When I set up my new antenna with a small Toshiba TV, I got around 50 stations during the auto-tune. As I was curious about all this, I did the first test without using the antenna amplifier that came with the Terk antenna. Once I thought I knew what I was doing a little better, I added in the amp, plugged it into the AC outlook, turned it on, and....... yikes, many of the stations were gone! I called the Terk service number to ask about this, and the tech guy at the other end told me that the amplifier was over-amplifying the signals, so my TV probably rejected them. It sounded fishy to me, but that didn't matter - I removed it, thinking that a better answer was that it was probably defective, which I'd test out later.

From reading the above "help" link, I now know the real answer, that adding one of these devices is ONLY to help reduce losses in the cabling that is used, and actually REDUCES the signal strength!! At first this made no sense to me, but after thinking about it for a while, it now makes perfect sense. I'm guessing that a "real" signal amplifier can be purchased, but would probably cost far more than the antenna and come in a good-sized case, not a little two-inch device with a slide switch.

Anyway, for anyone else reading this forum, between your information and what I've just posted, it adds up to a pretty good explanation of what's going on. (I'm sure I'll have more questions later on..... )

Sorry for my delay in answering.

I understand. I don't know how to swap the text, but I understand what you're saying at least. I'm not sure there's much I can do there, since my knowledge of JavaScript is very limited.

The UpdateTV link within RabbitEars still links off to the Update Logic website. You think they should both link to the same place, am I understanding correctly?

I have links to lots of interesting sites on my site's Links page, Scott Fybush's page included. He actually collects data for RabbitEars.

- Trip

I wouldn't know javascript from a piece of newspaper floating in coffee, but you can always take the easy way out....

Change "Expand All" to "Expand/Contract" and it's fixed! :-)