The Toshiba DLP (HM/HMX) Owners Thread - Page 61

the only reason the manual states that you shouldn't hook a pc up to the tv is because it won't work intially, you have to tweak around to get it to work properly, they just put that in there so they won't get call about people pc's not showing properly on the tosh, its not detremental to the tv to run a computer on it, thats just dumb

Thanks for the info Bill. I'm addicted to Fox News and the History channel though and I already have high speed cable through Bright House so I'm thinking that's the way to go. Unless they keep raising the rates. Of course if they are compressing the heck out of the signal I might reconsider.

I just got a 52hm84 and was wondering how most of you set up your HD boxes and upconverting DVD players with only a single HDMI input? I was thinking of using HD with component cables and the DVD player (with a DVI output) hooked up using an hdmi/dvi cable. Any other solutions besides an expensive switcher?

So doesn't anyone else have an upconverting player?

Did you ever got it working? If you did, will you please share your setting. Thanks.

I have a upconverting player. The LG 7832NXC. it's the Zenith DVB318 Canadian clone.

I have it set up at 1080i through components and the PQ is stunning on well mastered DVD's. Some older DVD's look more grainy then at 480i/p.

I tried 480i, 480p, 720p ans 1080i with components and DVI->HDMI. The player has a reputation of being very good at 1080i over components. And it was the same conclusion for me.

Comparing the TV's scaler to the DVD player's scaler was very easy to do and the DVD's scaler is better than the TV's scaler. HDMI ports on the tosh dlp's is problematic, waaaayyy too much sharpness. So with my player being better over components AND the TV being better over components IMO, my setup is perfect for me.

This is exactly the kind of information I am looking for. What model of display do you have? Was the sharpness the only problem with the HDMI connection? Are you saying you couldn't correct it with the settings in the display or player?

I have the LG DVB 418 upconverting DVD player.
I run it to my 52hm84 via HDMI. This Player has HDMI so it is a true HDMI to HDMI connection note not DVI to HDMI.
I have No issue with Over Sharpness. I too have viewed Sharks Tale with this setup and all I can Say WOW, My wife thought it looked as good as some of the HDHBO movies we have seen.

I also have the SA HD8300 DVR HD Cable BOX from BHN and it is hooked to the set via Component, which also looks very good.

Overall Very HAPPY with My purchase and Setup.

bMw

yes, its PQ is breathtaking.
but ghosting degrades such effect! player is Sharp upconverting PVR to output 1080i/720p via component.

so when was your TV made, and FW version?
mine 62HM84 was assembled in Sep/04 and FW was Jul/04.

So what resolution did you find provided the best PQ? I assume you tried 480i, 480p and 720p as well as 1080i.

Just got my 52HM84 on 2-22 and decided you give you some initial impressions.

Out of the box using regular cable and a new cheap Toshiba Progressive scan DVD player ($60 at BB) with component cables (Acoustic research brand). Cable quality was hit or miss. Most stations were fine though some seemed washed out and grainy. On normal setting the 4:3 picture was no better or worse than old 27 inch CRT.
When I watched "The Bourne Supremacy" I was amazed at the clarity of the picture but at the end I discovered I had not enabled Progressive scan on the DVD player. Turned it on and slipped in "Return of the King EE" at the Battle of Pelennor Fields. My jaw hit the floor. It looked even better than in the theatre and had a similar appearance to those HD broadcasts you see in Best Buy and Circuit City. No smearing at all, no pixilation, no rainbows,...perfect picture. "Spiderman 2" was another Jaw dropper. Again, almost HDTV quality. Man, this set is amazing. Btw, I was just using the standard MOVIE setting. Have not had time to adjust the set to any great degree yet.
On 2-24-05 the Dish Network installer got me hooked up with an 811 HD receiver (using Component cabling) and a wonderful signal (great open southern exposure). All SD channels immediately improved dramatically. Of course HD looked great. Found myself mesmerized by Discovery channel show on snakes just watching the amazing picture. Was able to improve to picture by changing a setting under Installation>HDTV setup. I changed the box input to 1080i and then used the Picture size setting #1 to stretch picture to fullscreen. I would not normally do this but I hate those GRAY BARS. Will be glad when a FIX is discovered or "leaked" by Toshiba.
Many SD channels now look near-DVD like (my old DVD that is). My kids mostly watch Nick and Disney Channel and those stations are a revelation. Great colors, no smearing or bleeding of reds. Changing from 480p which is default of 811 box to 1080i seems to have given a greater perceived resolution as the picture is now VERY sharp.
All in all, very pleased with this set. Only drawbacks seem to be lack of inputs. Would love to see another component input at the very least. There also needs to be a way to make the gray bars on 4:3 viewing black from a menu. Other than that, no problems. Great job Toshiba.

Pluses: no rainbows for any family member or friend who has watched it (maybe 20 people so far) so must be rare problem.
NO glare from room lamps or from French doors facing TV. If your TV will face a window you may have to leave Lamp on High but there will be NO glare at all.
Can save your preferences to each input. Very helpful. And the standard sports/standard/video/movie settings arent bad either.

I suggest paying for home delivery of this set. It is a HUGE box and hard to fit properly into most vehicles. (seems that MANY set problems with this set stem from damage during transport or delivery) Also make sure cabling is done correctly with as few splitters and connectors as possible (lose 3db per fitting). Not sure the difference between Direct TV and Dish network picture wise. Im just renting with Dish network and with local channels and HD content (with more to come I hope) and 2 extra TVs on other 2-tuner receiver, Im only paying $5.00 more than basic cable. If any problems crop up, I will let you guys know. Would love to hear what picture settings anyone is using for SD TV or any other comments as well.

I have the 52HM84, and IMO, all the ghosting problems people are reporting is caused by the sharpness being way too high through the HDMI port. DVE shows this easily with the sharpness screen settings.

My sharpness is at 0 on my HDMI input and it's still way too high. Colors are on the Darker side, but i'm not sure if it's the TV or the DVD player.

I find that 1080i on the LG DVB 418 upconverting DVD player looks best Via HDMI. In addtion I do not have ghosting issue at all, and My setting are set at default MOVIE settting.

You should pick up Avia or DVE as I think you could improve the PQ even more. What I find puzzling is the number of HM/HMX owners that find 1080i to be the best. Logic would dictate that the native 720p should provide the best PQ. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I did talk briefly w/ a Toshiba customer service rep about this. Their reasoning was that most HD is 1080i from the source and it's better (their assessment) to let the TV handle any conversions instead of a STB. I am hard pressed to see a difference either way so I just leave the STB output on 1080i.

Jim, I can uderstand this logic with HD programming but the same phenomena appears with upconverting DVD player owners. This doesn't make sense as the source is native 480i.

Can someone let me know what the remote code is for a Motorola STB? My copy of the manual doesn't have that. I'm also still trying to find out if it's possible to see what the signal is on the screen, seems odd that you can't see "1080i" or "480p" on the screen ever. Thx. (52MH84)

You are not the first one with a HDMI dvd player with no ghosting.... maybe DVI-->HDMI is what's causing the problem...

hb2, i posted the same question before regarding displaying the type of signal, and the answer is that the hm84 series does not display the type of signal (i think the hm94 may be different).

I agree I think that its a DVI to HDMI issue not an issue for us doing straight HDMI to HDMI.

What are your Settings you use : ie Mode then custom settings beyond that, I don't have a AVE disk yet and like to try someone who has done a calabration on a upconverting HDMI to HDMI DVD Player?

Thanks
bMw

Here's a link to a thread where I posted some from a few owners.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=514981

ANy other opinions out there?

I had an "el cheapo" non-progressive DVD player. My Toshiba 5970 blows it away in a direct comparison. That's a given. When playing a DVD on the Tosh, I see no difference in PQ when I set its outputs to 1080i or 720. So I leave it at 720 as this is native to the TV.

However, I clearly see a better image with my Dish receiver when the TV does the scaling. In other words, setting the Dish STB to ouput at 1080i gives me the best PQ on 720p & 1080i program content. When I set the STB to 720p, all 1080i PQ (NBC, CBS) degrades slightly while 720p looks fine.

Hope this helps.

Moman, thanks for the response. What about if you set the player to 480p and let the TV do the scaling? Do you find the 720p setting on the player gives you better PQ as opposed to the TV's scaling?

I find the resolution discussion very interesting as this seems to be the ultimate gray area of HD capture, transmission, and display. As most of us are still evaluating and deciding for future equipment, I did some research about the issue.

These are the links I visited. They have very good and long explanations I will try to resume:

http://www.hdlibrary.com/viewtopic.php?t=205

http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2004/0204/02a.htm

http://www.avd.com.au/Without_Frames...eography_1.htm

Some facts:

* When the western world was trying to improve the resolution of TV, Japan already had an 1125i standard. The westerners felt their companies could dissppear against the competition and convinced the decision makers that a different standard should be created. Hence came the 720p and 1080i, which are good, but not better than the Japan HDTV.

* For pure, uncompressed signals, 720p is better with moving images and 1080i is better with still images. This because more lines means more resolution, but interlacing introduces artifacts which are not present in progressive.

* 720p is cheaper to transmit than 1080i; less lines are easier to process. Because of this, some broadcasters push for 720p.

* 1080i displays are cheaper to manufacture than 720p; processors are less expensive. Because of this, distributors and some manufacturers (some buyers too) push for 1080i.

* At any given moment a 1080i shows just a bit more of the lines of a 720p, this because of the Kell Factor, which states Xi = .7Xp. In other words, 1080i video is approximately 756p video.

* Military applications demanded near absolute precision and thus progressive is favored over interlaced, because of this, contracted manufacturers push for 720p.

You can see why manufacturers, broadcasters, and cable/sat providers have been strugling for years on the format issue. As technical advances has made the less expensive interlace systems more precise, the quality gap between formats is closer. Also the Kell Factor indicates that what we actually see is closer too.

Manufacturers and cable/sat providers have been wise and offer products that work in either format, broadcasters are left to decide on which they are gonna use. It's all good for us, we still have to evaluate which product is better for our needs.

Another fact is that the signals our equipment display are processed, a lot. Even DVD video is a compressed format, further more...high definition DVD will still be a processed format too. So, it's all down to which equipment (cable transmitter, cable box, DVD player, HDTV) process these signals best.

What is better then? Well processed 1080i will look the same as 720p, that leaves us with the fact that 1080i still represents more lines. Net result should be a slightly higher resolution image which you can look closer at.

Our Toshibas take all signals, convert them to 720p, and fit them to the big screen. My feeling is that a 1080i signal will have the same effect as when you look at a 5Meg and a 3.5MEG pictures in your 17" computer monitor. Both pictures look great, but the 5Meg looks better, particularly when bigger, because it has more information.

Using the 5Meg picture analogy, a 1080i image has more information than a 720p, and it's been fitted to a big screen. Given high quality equipment, I would say 1080i should look better than 720p, for the sheer fact that it has more information. BUT (big but) ultimately the different equipment combos could prove better for either format, you'll just have to test them...as always.

JulioBro, While I applaud your research it doesn't address my question. I simply want to get the opinions of those who have purchased or tested upconverting players with their HM or HMX display at the standard 480i or 480p and let the display handle the scaling as opposed to the other way around. Basically I'm trying to determine if the display has an equal or better scaler than the upconverting players to determine whether I would obtain much benefit to purchasing one as opposed to concentrating on a good progressive player such as the Sony NVP-NS775V.

I've narrowed down the upconverting players to consider and want to know if the additional $150 would be justified based on the quality of the internal scaler in the Toshiba. I may have to experiment myself but unfortunately the upconverting players I am considering are only available on-line and I would have to deal with the hassle of returning them.

I was hoping someone might have already done some of this testing and could have shared their findings.

If you check some of what I read, most indicate that the upscalers in DVDs and STBs do a better job than the HDTV's. The Toshiba will do a better job of fitting and presenting this image on the screen if the source image is good. The better the source, the better reproduction.

You know, an easy way to look at this is comparing non-progressive DVD to progressive. The Toshiba is converting the non-progressive to 720p, but obviously the progressive signal looks better. So you see, it's combination between source and projector.

Kkdog044,

I'm not sure he was addressing your specific question. Throughout this forum numerous people have posed the question of which resolution is better to send to the television. This can be answered many ways. It truly depends on what type of dvd player or scaler you buy. I'm sure the $1000.00 dvd player will do a great job of up or downconverting a picture as opposed to a $149.00 DVD player or deinterlacer. This question has also been asked in reference to satellite receivers and cable boxes. How should the resolution from these boxes be set. Should they let the box do the work or the television. I believe if you ask 3 separate people you will probably get 3 different answers.

I receive my 62HMX94 on Saturday. I purchased the LG DVB418 and the Denon - 1710. I'm going to pop in the 2 copies I have of The Fifth Element and compare component vs HDMI connection in all formats 480i, 480P, 720P and 1080i. I will go back and fourth from POP windows and full screen to get a true evaluation. Now take in mind this will only be on 2 different inexpensive DVD players but by the end of the day 1 of them is going back to the B&M I bought it from.

Do you mean the 1910? I've never heard of a 1710. I would like to hear your results once you do the testing. I'm looking at the Panasonic S97 and Sony 975. I may just order the 975 and pick up the 775 at BB and see if there is a benefit with the upconversion. Unfortunately getting the TV and DVD player isn't going to happen for a few more weeks. I have decided on the same TV you have and look forward to your impressions of it as well.

Does the LG pass DD 5.1 from the HDMI connection? If so, could you test the optical output on the display and see if it will pass it to your receiver. I tried contacting Toshiba customer support but they were no help. My understanding is if the receiving display cannot pass 5.1 it will downchannel to 2.0 PCM. I know the display will pass it from cable card input but couldn't get a straight answer on the HDMI input from a capable DVD player.

This may be true for older displays but I've read some responses where they feel their display has a better scaler. Of course this is usually FP owners with Faroudja. I know the HM/HMX 84 uses a Genesis video processor (GM6015) but I haven't been able to figure out what the 94 series is using. I'm thinking it may be their own proprietary one. As far as the STB goes most set it to 1080i as only three broadcast in 720p (i.e. FOX, ESPN, ABC). This would indicate the display has a better scaler than the STB since it converts these to 720p whereas the STB would just pass the signal as is. I don't hear of many that let the STB do the conversion and I've read that some people switch it 720p on the STB when viewing those three channels. Ideally a pass-through would be the best choice but in my case the Motorola box that Comcast uses doesn't have this option.