Mitsubishi WD XX725 owners thread - Page 174

The search function on this board is pretty bad. I've got a WD-62725 that randomly goes blue, sometimes 3 or 4 times in a 5 minute period. The timer light flashes twice then the set powers off / resets after about 45 seconds. Then I get the blinking timer light for about 60 seconds and sometimes the unit won't power on or I get a black screen with a large (4-8 inch) green or white vertical bar on the right side, but most of the time it powers up and works fine for hours. It sounds like the "reset problem," but I haven't seen many posts on this.

Is anyone else having this problem and if so has anyone found a fix or had any luck with a shop fixing it for them? I have the latest firmware (v26 004.06) and it didn't even help.

I've been waiting 6 weeks...for my FMT board to get repaired on my 52525.

Well I posted this in another Mitsu thread, but figured I would join the crowd over here.

WD52725, purchased Dec 17, 2004

My wavy line issue just seemed to start within the last month. I don't notice it at all while watching HD content, but if I watch SD or a DVD (all through component) the lines are bad. Screen is still watchable, but I think its getting worse.

Luckly I did get the 5 year extended warranty, mainly because DLP was rather new back in 04 and I didn't want to take any chances. I am calling Tweeter today to start what I expect to be a long drawn out fight with them. Anyone have any experience with them as far as warranty repairs go? Seems most people here are trying DIY fix the problem. I will keep you all updated on my saga, as I am interested to hear how everyone else fairs.

Thanks,
Nick

Just a quick update..

It starts already, first available appt. is not until the 24th of this month! So I guess now we wait and hope it does not get any worse before then.

Also what is the comparable model tv to the WD52725 now? I don't think this was a diamond series when I bought it, and I don't see another 52" dlp in the lineup. I have a feeling this is going to end with me demanding a new tv, so I want to get my ducks in line.

Thanks again,
Nick

That's a good point, the flow diagram does seem to point at the FMT. It's just that the widespread occurrence of this issue after 3 yrs life fits the characteristics of a cap problem and you've already replaced the electrolytics on the FMT board. I guess we'll have confirmation soon on whether it can be the DM board (e.g., noise propagating through the OSD branch path to the FMT, etc).

Is hipnotiq still reading this forum? He has access to the 3diamonds site. I wonder if Mits has posted anything on this problem yet.

I posted this in the 2004/2005 Mitsu DLP owners thread, but thought it might work here, too:

The tech came out today for the wavy line issues. They weren't as bad as usual today, but then again it was daytime and the bright room tends to wash them out some. At night, they really stand out.

But anyways... He saw them, which was the point. He said that he could try to fix it piecemeal, but he is just going to order a whole new chassis. He told me that it's possible they won't have it in stock, which could be a good thing on the path to getting a whole new tv out of this. He said if they can't get a chassis is a reasonable amount of time, that he will escalate the claim for me.

This will easily put the repairs and labor over the $2000 mark if this part is available. The light engine, ballasts, and at least one circuit board have been replaced.

I have a warranty through Sound Advice (Tweeter), which is serviced by N.E.W. Anyone have any experience on how they are with replacing the set?

The good thing about replacement value, is that I should be able to get a better tv for half of what I paid for this one. I know right now it's just wishful thinking that they'll replace it, but I really don't think the issues will go away.

Hello All,
I thought I'd take a minute and send an update regarding my issue. I tend to get wordy but I'll try to type this out in an understandable way. Let me preface this message by saying I was in the projection TV repair business for 12 years. I still tinker around but I've been out of it for the past 5 or so. (about the time DLP / LCD rear projection came out - bummer) My favorite brand USED TO BE Mits and is one of the main reason I purchased this WD-62825 a few years ago.

My problems first started about 2 months ago when I noticed the wavy lines watching DVDs (component). I just ignored the issue until I remembered this thread and thought I'd see if anyone else was complaining. Alas, they were. Many people were talking about replacing puffy capacitors on the main power supply and other boards. The other night I decided to take apart my set to get a look at the caps and take inventory. After pulling apart the supply and taking note of all caps near heat sources and other known places, I decided I'd had enough because the FMT, DM, and signal boards are tough to get to. Although I didn't find caps on the supply that looked bad, I figured I'd start at the PS and go from there. As you may have read in my posts from the past few pages, that's when my problems REALLY started happening.

After putting the unit back together, it wouldn't boot! (green blinking light) Immediately blaming my assembly, I tore it back apart looking for mistakes. I found none. At one point, it did boot and I was able to get a picture. I noted that the picture looked OK a few posts back but in actuality I do remember it having wavy diagonal lines (NOTE: This is on the HDMI input - more to come below). I summed the lines up to maybe loose cables or shielding not installed yet -long shot, I know. So I proceeded to put the set back together. As you also probably read, my set would again not boot! This is where I left it for the night. After reading mzorola's post, I'll bet that even if I didn't open the cabinet that night and just unpluged the set and let it cool down, that it wouldn't boot up.

The following night (last night), I decided to take another go at it. I purchased a bunch of 1000uf 16v caps because that seems to be the common value that's going bad (Jamicon garbage). First, I thought I'd check to see if this issue was a bad connection, I plugged the set in, waited for it to boot (it didn't), and then stated to tap around on the back side of the set using the butt of a screwdriver. It booted all of the sudden! This may have been a coincidence because I couldn't get it to boot again. I decided now was the time to pull everything apart and replace the caps on the FMT and DM modules.

I tore everything down, found puffy caps on both the FMT and DM boards and also soldered up some hot spots around regulators, transformers, and other heat sources. I didn't pull the signal board apart - maybe I should have. I also did a quick solder job on the PS. I put the chasis back together, plugged it in and it worked!! One caveat, I still had the wavy lines on all inputs (including HDMI). However, the OSD worked fine. I still chalked this up to having shields off, etc so I put everything back together.

After putting everything back together and putting the set back in the wall unit, I fired it up and still had the lines (same as other pictures posted here) on ALL inputs while the OSD continued to look OK.

Saddened, I started picking up my tools and considered posting here before calling a tech (yuck). I also know that I still should probably replace the caps on the power supply for good measure. I plan on going to my old shop this week to go through their stock of caps. (125 degree -high temp - good brands) After putting my tools away I looked at the set again, and the lines weren't so bad! After about another 10 minutes, they were gone!!! THERMAL PROBLEM!

I let the set cool down over night (still plugged in) and turned it on again. It looked great. Actually, the lines on the component inputs seem much less / better than they were prior to this fiasco as well. You really have to look for them. So this leads me to believe that something in the standby / always on power supplies or related areas had to warm up. In addition, the replacement of the caps helped the component issue. Maybe there is ripple up stream somewhere that is still contributing enough to cause issues on analog video (component - vga) but not digital (ala HDMI and OSD).

Conclusion / Questions:
1) I guess I need to get some freeze-mist and see if I can see where the problem is at. Remember, I didn't touch the signal board or the power supply yet. Any ideas?

2) Although, I haven't unplugged the set, I imagine that if I let it cool down, the lines would come back. When mzorola explained his problem, it reminded that mine has been mysteriously gone to blink mode the past six months with a simple reset taking care of the issue. I think that this is a sign of worse things to come. (e.g. no boot or even getting in to JoeC or collin's issues where the problem is finally beyond the caps)

3) What are the sub supplies used for on the FMT, and DM board (where the caps were replaced). I also noticed them on the power supply. Same basic components and layoutis this the 3.3V supply? It would make sense to have a low voltage supply such as this, local, to where it'd be used. A low supply like this can easily pick up noise when running between boards. The four caps are in parallel so they should measure around 4000uf in circuit. (mine do on the supply - that's why I haven't changed them yet) What (bigger) supply feeds these?

4) Where does the OSD and Video signal converge and how does it stay separate. My thinking is the issue is NOT on the power supply unless the OSD stuff and the rest of the video processing (i.e. where the noise is at when cold) are on separate supplies. Or the ripple is coming from multiple places (DM, FMT) and it still exists on the PS because I haven't touched anything there yet. This would also reinforce where some people fix the supply to fix the issue, some do the DM, and some do the FMT. (as I recall - anyway)

5) Is there anything on the signal board worth checking out? Is one of the sub supplies there as well?

I probably have other questions / issues but I've typed enough. I highly doubt anyone has actually read this far. Oh well, maybe it'll help someone. (or me)

Cheers!

Very interesting! So it sounds like after replacing the FMT & DM caps, the wavy lines problem went from "always there" to "only there when tv is cold".


It appears the K1 connector from the power board supplies 12Vs and 6Vs to the Signal, DM, FMT, and TERM-2 boards. Since PA, PJ, K2, PL, and PK supply the light engine and ballast, it appears all of the main chassis boards run off of the standby voltage rails.

It may be that that the 1000 uF cap clusters distributed across the FMT, DM, power, and signal(?) boards work in tandem to smooth the rectified 6Vs tap-off standby transformer output. So all of these caps degrading may contribute to a dirty 6Vs line.

Now that you've replaced the DM and FMT 1000 uF clusters, you've likely reduced the 6Vs noise to near the onset threshold, which allows thermal characteristics to bring it back from over the edge. The final test would be for you to replace the 1000 uF clusters on the power board (and perhaps the signal board) to see if the ripples are entirely removed.

Granted, lots of speculation here, but I think we're getting somewhere.

Aside: anyone who doesn't have the wavy line problem could try disconnecting their TV overnight and see if they appear at power-on while the TV is cold. If you see them, then your TV may be approaching the wavy-line emergence threshold. (I think I'll try this)

Aside #2: delar, do you think there may have been a subtle improvement when you replaced the FMT caps?

Well, the strange this is I had it on ALL inputs (not just analog - which nobody is complaining about) until the set warmed up. OSD was fine the entire time.

So you think I have the "4 caps" on the signal board too, eh? I didn't see them by peaking through the frame that the DM mounts on. (not the best look) If so, it looks like there are at least 8 more caps to change in my future. (4 on the signal and 4 on the PS)

Are these the 3.3V supplies? Has anyone measured them when the set was running? It's tough to do. Mits didn't make this the easiest set to t-shoot when "hot".


I agree. Good thoughts....

More to come once I get my hands on more caps.....

Crap. TERM-2 too? I didn't look there either.....I wonder if that supply with the 4 caps resides there as well.

The chassis replacement manual has photos of all the boards (see my post from yesterday for link). Looking at page 21, it definitely looks like the signal board has a cluster of them. Since the signal board provides 3.3Vs to Control, 6Vs gets down-converted at some point. I'd be interested in knowing if it's the 3.3Vs or the 6Vs side that's getting filtering there (the latter would supported my common 6Vs rail filtering theory).

My wavy lines weren't on the OSD, either. Just on the picture behind it.

That might be because the OSD is generated by a digital chip and has no analog segment in its flow. I believe all the other signals (except perhaps ATSC) involve an analog conversion. Any non-discrete segment would allow the introduction of noise to the signal.

Indeed - good thought again. I'll let you all know the outcome of tearing apart my poor TV once again.

So is that a no?

I haven't heard of anything like that. Check back in a few days -- there are a few techs that occasionally peruse the thread and may be able to help. If it gets worse, you could have PTSCORP rebuild your electrical chassis for ~ $300.

Just a thought, what are you using for a signal source? I know some units (not sure about this one) will shut down if they don't have a signal for an extended period of time (blue screen).

I get this on all my inputs. Input 1 (S-video) is connected to a DTV box, comps 1-3 are connected to my Xbox 360, Wii, and DVD player, and antenna A is using an over-the-air HDTV antenna. Aside from the timer light flashing twice when the screen goes blue, there is no error (err 12 after reset). The service guys I called said the have never heard of this problem and they'll need to take the set to trouble shoot it. I was thinking about ripping it open and checking out the caps, but if no one else has seen this then I'll just hold off until I get some input.

Sorry to hear about your TV, sounds like the same situation with mine. I placed a service call for the wavy line problem. The tech came out on 12/07 and replaced a bunch of caps (guessing about 12 to 14) on three different boards. After reassembling everything, the blinking light of death was the only thing the set would do. The guy must have spent an additional 8 hours trying to get it working again but no joy. He ordered a complete electronics chassis but they are on back order. Parts are supposed to be in on 1/19.
Don't feel bad, this thing is a nightmare to work on. Good luck.

No, I did not notice any change after replacing the 1000uf cluster on the FMT board. Later, when I changed the 1000uf cluster on power board, I again noticed no difference in the wavy lines. The signal and DM boards have similar clusters that I have not touched as of yet. If memory serves me correctly, the Term-2 board does not have a cluster of four 1000uf caps on it like the others.
Yeah, we figured that the problem is related to something that is always powered, whether the TV on on or off. Unfortunately it appears that most of the chassis electronics are powered all the time, so this doesn't narrow it down a whole lot.

Good news on the Term-2. (shew ) I'll give it a once-over when I'm in there again but I think I agree.

I believe noplasma said it best yesterday, the 6Vs and 12Vs run to almost all boards. The clusters of 1000uf caps likely hang off of one of those rails. These "sub-supplies" (as I call them) likely supply local circuits with the needed voltage(s).

Since these supplies seem to be designed identical (and operate off the same rail(s)), it is plausible that they would all need attention at near the same time in their life. In addition, ripple on one supply on the rail could have a cascading effect on its counterparts on other boards.

I already changed the caps on FMT and DM (which fixed my primary issue - blinking light) and plan on doing the signal and PS this weekend. That sub-supply happens to be on the PS as well, I believe.

I have a strong feeling this will take care of all my issues including the wavy lines. As far as I can tell, nobody has changed all the caps on all the boards yet (with a set that can get through boot) to see if the lines go away.

I also plan on changing a few other caps near heat sources on the PS.

In Summary:

4 x 1000uf on FMT (done)
4 x 1000uf on DM (done)
Random suspect bad solder joints resoldered on PS, DM, and FMT (done)

Problem solved - set boots and after standby PS warm up, the picture looks good with very minor lines (better than before) on the component inputs.

4 x 1000uf on Signal (this weekend)
4 x 1000uf on PS (this weekend)
?? x ????uf on PS (for good measure - this weekend)

This should solve the remaining and very faint lines in my component inputs if what we are speculating is correct. The lines I have now are nowhere near as bad as some have posted.

I'm not sure if you are technically inclined or not but if you can, pay attention when he does the chassis install. I'm interested in what kind of setup needs to occur when buying a new (or rebuilt) chassis. (e.g. geometry, etc) Are these setting stored somewhere besides the "chassis"?

Sounds like a good plan, keep us posted on how it turns out. I would love it if we had this problem solved by the time my TV starts showing it.

Quick question -- folks (myself included) suffering the wavy line syndrome usually don't see it on the HDMI input. IIRC, it appears more on component with SD (480i) signals vs. HD. Has anyone actually tried to send 480i over HDMI to the set to see if it shows up there? Does the HDMI input even support 480i?

-John

Do a search under my handle "ironhorse" and find the page where I did the full bulb replacement deal. My section of the thread should be a sticky as I show you step-by-step how to do it with pictures, comments, and tips. This is not that difficult, but I understand it could be somewhat intimidating. Don't be afraid to get inside these sets. You can also search for posts number #4222 & #4223.

FYI:
I got my DM board today. I will reassemble the chassis tonight and post results. I expect to have things going by about 10:00pm CST. A quick look-over of the DM board shows CAP replacements (including the ones I did!) and some resoldering of the crystals? I did not mark each component so it is a little hard to see what has been changed.

Yes, when I was trying to troubleshoot mine I did check the switch mode sub supplies and they were 3.3V on the signal, DM and FMT boards. If I remember right the Term2 was also. There are also several fixed regulators on the boards as that are always on.

Finally got my chasiss today and I have a working set!!!!

The only thing that needs to be done according to the manual is to copy the light engine EPROM to the DM. It's on pg 16 of the service manual. My chassis was $700, with shipping and restock fees for the other boards I had tried this repair probably cost me $900+

I spent 15 years as a field service rep (office machines) not exactly the same as your experience but like to think I have a handle on the essentials. Good question about settings storage... I will post the results when they happen. Luckily, I have an extended warranty so the $$ aren't coming out of my own pocket.

It is a failure. Still blinking! I am going to go over the reassembly to determine if anything was not properly reasembled. Are there any sensors that check the closure of the set back panel?

I am not putting any more money in my set. So when it dies it will be replace with a new set but not Mitsubishi!!!!!