New DVDO iScan HD+ - Page 3

Very good point. We have done some work on this, but haven't integrated all the parts together to do this yet. ('Parts' here refers to digital signal processing blocks which are all located inside an FPGA, not discrete chips. This is why we could potentially offer this as a firmware upgrade to the HD+.) Then all we'll need is a lot more source devices which provide this type of signal.

- Dale Adams

LiOn,

576i for HDCP sounds useless, luckily Europe has not taken a stand for HDCP and hopefully they'll resist this silly standard.

So, the only thing that's required is HDCP processing (Scaling and deinterlacing) for HDCP for 1080i, 480i and 720p with the output requiring HDCP.

So you don't have DVI/HDMI output in PAL land? Or your PAL Pioneer 59avi has no HDCP?

regards,

Li On

I have yet to see any PAL unit do HDCP.

Maybe it'll happen with HDMI.

I think it's gonna happen with HDMI because a lot of the parts come together as a kit, Ofer.

The Europe model of the Pioneer 59avi is called 868xxx, right? So it's HDMI has NO HDCP? If so then maybe the current non-HDCP iScan HD and even the Crystalio may take the HDMI-DVI 480i/576i for deinterlace and scaling?

regards,

Li On

LiOn,

I have not checked any HDMI units yet. I'm much more of an SDI fan.

Sorry I don't understand. You haven't checked HDMI and you're quite sure there is NO HDCP in PAL land?

regards,

Li On

I said i havent seen it or heard reports about it yet. I was only referring to DVI.

I expect HDMI will use hdcp, but i have not specifically checked it.

I hate HDCP.

Well I have asked about it on email and in another post but here goes.

I have had my Iscan HD for 3 weeks now.

I find out about the upgrade abilites of the unit and am very happy to hear it and ordered it. Then suddenly its all about moving to the HD+ unit. I swear I have the worst luck... I open a box and a replacement comes out. I have kept a Fosgate FAP-T1 in a box just to prove this...

Anyways.

I got my unit from onecall before finding out that DVDO would honor the same deal.

Use my unit and have found various issues.
HDCP does not pass if the unit is in auto on DVI
Depending on the device connected you either get a HDCP warning screen and the DVD stops or you get a playing disc that you can hear but not see while the IScan flops back and forth between process'able signal and bypass. This gives no image.
The ability to scale DVI signals to the set res has been dropped. (Err put in the + model. It was stated many times that they were planning or hoping to get this into the HD via updates.)
Working with some DVD payers I can not get the iScan to format the picture right. The DVD player is trying to recognize that the signal is 4:3 or 16:9 and images just won't fit sometimes... change modes on the iscan 16:9, 4:3, Letterbox and then start changing settings on the DVD player... too many buttons...

Due to the issues mentioned above my unit spends a lot of time in bypass mode. What the heck is it there for then you may ask? I know I am asking it. That is until I pop in a 16:9 DVD into the SDI modded DVD player I have.

I am switching out my Sat receiver as soon as it comes in and then I will have a DVI out sat receiver. So that relegates me to no analog ins anymore.

I was hoping to use the DVDO with the DVI in from sat. I would set the sat to native and let the DVDO process the SD channels and just pass through the HD ones. Well I gotta say... if I am going ot constatnly jump in and out of AUTO on the DVI setting for this... grrrr. Remember my problems with DVI signals not going if HDCP'd.

Please allow for a cheap upgrade to the HD plus.

Last night I was watching Discovery channel Dinasour planet via S-Video into the iScan and it was the worst image I have ever seen come out of the unit. Looked like a bunch of digital trash on all the trees and leaves in the background. Didn't have the energy to recalibrate everything to try to improve it and just went to the Sat boxes scaling via component.

really concerned that the new box is going to make my IScan a doorstop.

Could of, would of, should of... bought from DVDO... then I could atleast tradeup without losing 1/2 the investment.

Getting off soapbox.

Sorry if this has already been covered but does the new unit have more than one DVI input?

Which iScan firmware version do you have? You can find the firmware version at the bottom of the iScan's information screen. If the last digits of the version number are less than 1.10 (e.g., 1.07), then you have an older firmware version which may not give you the best DVI behavior with HD or HDCP-encrypted sources. Newer firmware versions, which can be found on the DVDO website, have improved this quite a bit. In the meantime, you can try putting the iScan's DVI input port in passthrough mode to see if this helps.


I'm not quites sure what type of signal you're talking about here. The iScan HD does not process HDCP-encrypted signals and never will. There was never a promised (or even hinted at) update which would allow the HD to process HDCP-encrypted signals. The iScan HD simply does not have the hardware needed to do this. The HD+ does, but that's a different box.

The iScan HD (or the HD+) does not automatically recognize the aspect ratio of the source. You have to manually tell it what type of signal you're sending it.


Again, this may be simply a matter of what firmware version you have.


Was this an HD channel? If so, then the STB is downscaling and interlacing the image, sending it to the iScan, and the iScan then deinterlaces and upscales the image. Obviously, this is not the optimal way to do things.

- Dale Adams

No, it has just the one. You can use an external DVI switcher, but that is extra cost and complexity in your system.

- Dale Adams

I am using the Beta firmware from the website. Once I put in the SDI mod I got the most upto date firmware and have been willing to post about my experiacne as beta.

Aspect ratio... this is more problem of the DVD player trying to guess that it is straight to a 16:9 display. The Bravo does this. The panasonic SDI modded does not. Toss in a 4:3 DVD and you have 2 different behaviors. The Bravo tries to fit it to 4:3. While the panasonic just sends it over to the iScan for work duties.


The issue with the HDCP is that the iScan can't leave it alone and pass it without forcing the unit to bypass. But the abiliaty to scale the lower def signals via DVI was on the table when I purchased the unit. I understand that the hardware can't do it. That is why I would be happy to pay a bit for an upgrade board/circuit.

Discovery was the SD channel.

Darian,

Simply use DVI in passthrough mode, always.

If your source is either HDCP (i.e., the iScan HD can't help) or already deinterlaced (BRAVO- so the iScan HD only does scaling), it's best to simply bypass and that's it.

Exactly which version number is this?


DVD players don't typically "guess" - you tell them what to do. You most likely want the player to output the signal without performing any aspect ratio changes and let the iScan do it. Normally, that means you tell the player that the display is 16:9 and it will then pass most sources unchanged. Of course that does depend to some extent on the player. You can't, however, expect the iScan to control the player's behavior.


You can scale SD signals (480p, 576p) via DVI as long as they're not HDCP-protected. What source do you have that's producing HDCP-protected SD? The Bravo doesn't and I assume you're using the SDI output of the Panny. Your STB does this?

I'm still not sure what you mean by "abiliaty to scale the lower def signals via DVI was on the table when I purchased the unit". Could you explain a bit more?

- Dale Adams

Dale,
Would there be anyway (in future firmwares) to add PIP or split screen? It would be great to watch tv and also have a web browser running, etc. Would this be a hardware limitation? Thanks. SJ

Ok, so...

1) The HD+ will upconvert more than just 480i, and will now upconvert higher resolutions such as 720p and 1080i? So the HD+ can de-interlace 1080i and upscale it to higher resolutions? Any thoughts about upconverting/scaling 540i/p or 960p? Doubt there will be much need for this, but perhaps its useful somehow.

2) Will it downconvert signals? Downconverting is probably not that important a function, as most displays actually do a reasonable job with that, but I'm curious.

Is it going to come with the SDI input stock or as an included option?

Sounds like a cool product so far.

This isn't going to be possible. The hardware of the iScan HD & HD+ only accommodates a single active video input. For PiP or split-screen you'd need two, and the iScan won't do that.

- Dale Adams

Yes. Yes (although 'deinterlace' in this case means just a simple 'bob'). The hardware is capable of accepting and scaling more than just 480i/p, 576i/p, 720p and 1080i. It's largely a matter of what the HD+'s operating software supports, although there are some hardware limitations (it won't accept 1080p input, for instance). Initially, just 720p and 1080i will be accepted outside of SD formats, but that could change in future firmware updates if there's enough demand.


Both the HD and HD+ will downconvert, depending on what you mean by the term. They will not output 480i or 576i. They can, however, take an input signal at a one resolution and scale that signal down to a lower resolution. A 1080i signal, for instance, and be down-converted to VGA. Obviously this is more significant in the HD+ which accepts HD resolution inputs.


SDI is still an option on the HD+.

- Dale Adams

So the HD+ will take a 1080i signal and output 720p? Projectors seem to be good with 1080i, but it may be interesting to see if the HD+ can take HDTV and do a better job of processing/downscaling for the many 720p projectors currently out there.

Cool. Well, that sounds really good. Still loving my iScan Ultra, but if and when I upgrade my PJ, I'll be seriously considering the HD+

Yes (from the DVI input only, though).

- Dale Adams

Dale Adams, 1000 posts. Congrats.

Whoo, Hoo! (I think about 972 of them are back in the original iScan HD thread...)

This one's 1,001!

- Dale Adams

I remember my first 1000, I can tell you that the next 1000 posts are easier...

Rogo is clearly the posting champ (world record pending).

Dale,
Will I be able to use setting like brighness, contracts, etc. on DVI 720p or 1080i signals? I would like to understand what features can be used on 720p/1080i HD signals in the HD+ vs. HD. Thanks! SJ

Yes. For the most part, anything that works with SD signals on the iScan HD will work with 720p and 1080i signals from DVI on the iScan HD+. This includes picture controls, frame rate conversion, scaling, etc. There are a few partial exceptions - e.g., with a 720p source you won't get guaranteed 3:3 frame repetition with a 3:2 pulldown source when you set the output frame rate to 72 Hz locked.

- Dale Adams

So, one of the main benefits of the HD+ is that it scales HD sources to the native rate of the display.

How does the HD+ compare to typical scalers in plasma displays? I know it is an impossible question to answer, but I am trying to get a perspective on the benefit of using an outboard scaler for HD scaling.

Perhaps another way to ask the question is what algorithm approaches would be better and what would be worse? What degree of difference in picture quality are we talking from these?

I am also intersted in the answer to HooStat's question. I too simply just want to use an outboard scaler to take an HDTV (1080i, 720p) source and better match it to my projector's native resolution, particularly since the scalers on older projectors like mine are not on par with what's built into todays units.

Also, to add some control over the sizing/positioning/color adjustments/refresh rates/ ect.. on HDTV sources since many projectors and plasmas have these adjustments blocked out when an HDTV source is feed.

Dale, Thanks for all your input.

-Russell

The iScan HD+ can do this as long as the HD input signal to it is DVI, not analog. You have full picture controls as well as the ability to scale to any output format.

I'll let others comment on the subjective comparisons between the iScan's processing and that found in the various displays out there. I don't really do the marketing thing.

- Dale Adams