Youngstown, OH - HDTV

Yeah.

People like you TV21CHIEF, if you are stil around, get your butt in gear, and lets try to find out some answers to the above questions.

I will keep bumping this everyday until, someone starts to answer these questions.

bump

ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WKBN(CBS), OR WFXY(FOX)?!

ANYONE!?

ANYONE!?

No idea about WKBN's DT plans.

WYFX/FOX will not be DT anytime soon. The station is actually a combination of two low-power stations, WYFX-LP/62 Youngstown and WFXI-LP/17 Mercer, PA.

LPTV stations will eventually go digital, under a new order just out from the FCC, but it's going to be a long time, and is going to happen after the full power stations are all on, I believe. Don't expect it in the near future.

If you want digital Fox, aim your antenna for Pittsburgh's WPGH, or Cleveland's WJW...(I'm assuming WPGH-DT is up...I know WJW-DT is...)

The last message I got from WKBN went like this...
Dear Ryan,

We are currently waiting on the authorization from the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to begin construction of our digital transmission system. I am estimating that we may be on the air in March, 2004 with a digital signal on channel 41. However, we will not be broadcasting in High Definition (HD) at that point, only Standard Definition (SD )which is basically a digital form of our current system.The HD broadcast date is not yet determined but will likely be sometime in 2005. At this time, there is no plan to broadcast WYFX in a digital format.

Thanks for your interest in WKBN-DT.

Sincerely,

Thomas A. Zocolo
Chief Engineer
WKBN WYFX-LP/WFXI-CA
3930 Sunset Blvd.
Youngstown, Ohio 44512

However as you all know it is now October 2004 and still no WKBN-DT. So I don't know what happened with that.

I heard that the current owner of WKBN is looking to sell the station and does not plan to invest in the equipment needed for DTV and HDTV. One could only hope for a quick sale and that the new owner will add the HD transmitter soon.

Boy, does that news stink.

You can get WPGH pretty easily with an indoor antenna(at least I do. I have an amplified RCA indoor antenna connected to a LG 4200A).

I live in New Castle, PA(right across the border) and can receive:

1. KDKA(CBS)
2. WPGH(FOX)
3. WPXI(NBC)
All of these are at 50-52 miles away to the South. If I had a bigger(better) indoor or outdoor antenna, I am sure I could receive even the WB, and WQED/WQEX(PBS) which is about 59 miles away.

I also receive:
1. WYTV(ABC) Youngstown, OH
2. WFMJ(NBC) Young, OH. And starting Nov 1, 2004 the WB on 20-2 in SD on the WFMJ digital signal
3. PBS out of Alliance, OH

But it would be nice if the local FOX, and CBS were also digital. What a shame. I am going to try to boycott anything played on these stations and stick with watching the Pittsburgh stations

If the engineering guy from WFMJ is still around...or anyone else who can answer...how powerful is DT 20? If it's not at "full" power, are there plans to upgrade?

Don't hold your breath on digital FOX out of Youngstown, no matter what happens with the ownership situation at WKBN/WYFX.

As mentioned earlier, WYFX is actually a pair of low-power stations - WYFX-LP 62 Youngstown and WFXI-LP 17 Mercer, PA (the latter presumably not far from you in New Castle). LPTVers are just now learning of the eventual conversion process to digital. It'll likely happen LONG after the full-power digital process settles down, and after the full-power stations have figured out what channel they'll use after the transition.

i.e. A station like WFMJ has to decide if they'll use channel 20, their digital channel, after the analog signal is shut down - meaning no more OTA 21 - or if they'll use channel 21, moving their digital signal there when the analog shuts down.

The "when will analog TV go away" question is in flux...it's probably at least 2-4 years away. The LPTVers have to wait until the full-power stations know where they're going to land, before they can figure out what digital channel they'll be on. And NONE of them are digitally broadcasting, or even buying such equipment, until then.

TV21 Chief also said that they have made deals with most cable companies, so WBCB should be on the cable in the valley. He wasn't sure if that counted for directv too or not, but he thought it did.

A Youngstown-Warren Business Journal article on WBCB:

http://www.business-journal.com/WFMJLaunchesWB.asp

I'm not sure where they get the "20A" and "20B" stuff, though.

I beleive 20A would be 20-1 and 20B would be 20-2 on the digital receiver.

Well, of course that's what they meant...I was just curious why they called the subchannels A and B. As far as I know, that's not in any standard...

hoops10,

The only thing I can think of as a possibility is TOPOGRAPHY. I "technically" live on top of a hill or more on the upper part of a mountain(I am sort of guessing here. But this region of the country, believe it or not, is made up of hills, mountains, valleys[City of New Castle, if you are familiar with it, is actually "built" in a valley and the surrounding hills]. I don't know where to find a topographical map on the web(someone may know) that may give you an idea of the layout of the land.

That is one possibility. Another one might be you are in an area with SEVERE multipath. How close are you too YTown? Are you on the East(more towards PA. Say like Hubbard, OH?) or are you on the west, north(Niles, OH) or South of YTown?

I am not familiar with your Hughes HD receiver(or whatever is in you LCD, which my guess is probably NEW), but my LG receiver is pretty strong. I've had the Sylvania SRZ3000(SWEET CHEAP Tuner for those who just want OTA. Very Nice for the price. Not all the bells and whistles like the LG and others though), the LG LST-3510 DVD Player/HD tuner(Nice, but a little pricey in my mind.) and the old Zenith HDV420(TERRIBLE IMHO. HAD FOR 5 DAYS AND DUMPED IT) and the LG LST-4200A was the strongest without question.

From what I understand it does handle multipath pretty well(not great though, and the new 5th gen chips in the new LG receivers coming out in early 2005 are SUPPOSED to be the "Holy Grail" of solving multipath problems for people in those type of areas. But until they are tested en masse by people, it is still "Speculation". People may wind up with a case of the "Supposed to's" with regards of this chip if it does not live up to it's advanced billing) and that "MAY BE" your problem.

But if it never existed before, then maybe there is a loose connection along the way. Was your set-up ever struck by lightening in the past few weeks?
Check your connections. See if there is anything out of the ordinary. Did you "change" your set-up(antenna connection) prior to you "losing" KDKA?
These things may be the culprit.

EDIT:

HOOPS10,

I am going to post this in the YOUNGSTOWN, OH OTA thread as well. I think it belongs there, and it is probably more suited to be in that thread.

We can carry on the disscussion there. Here is the link to that thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...157#post4565157

STEELERSRULE, as far as KDKA is concerned, I can't for the life of me figure it out. When I first got the HTL-HD, I could get it no probs, this was in the fall of 2003. Spring and summer came and the signal was in and out at best. So I decided to raise my roof-top antenna higher up to try and improve the reception of KDKA, still no luck. I live West of Y-town, in Austintown.

Ah...I'm a little busy here. I've not had a day off since October 10 and I don't have time to look at the Forum every day like I was. I was also unaware there was a Youngstown thread. I'd subscribed to one that existed a while ago, but this one is not sending me emails. Thanks to STEELERSRULE I now know it exists and will subscribe. Don't look for quick answers for the next month or so.

We are currently 200kW side mounted and just sent the paperwork in for the newly required chennel election processs to certify our existing CP. We are going to maximize at 460kW at the top of the tower and stay on CH 20 by July 1, 2006.
We've had some SNAFU's with some of the cable companies and we're still negotiating with some of them. I can't go into details on that. Right now we're on Armstrong CH43. We will not be transmitting WB in HD. you can't get 2 HD channels in one ATSC bitstream and have anything worth watching.

Here's what I can say about WKBN because it's public record in the FCC database. Their construction permit was granted in June. It expires in June of 2005. They will have to have something on the air by then or file for an exception and then be granted it. Inundated is correct in his assesment of the Fox LP's.

Hope that answers the questions that I can answer.

Well the summer and spring conditions are probably due to foilage from the trees, and to some extent atmospheric conditions(more static electricity in the air during this time of year), but your reception problems are still mind boggling.

It has to be a connection somewhere. It makes no sense that I can receive this channel with a cruddy indoor amplified antenna and you can't with one mounted on the roof.

Here is something you can try for the heck of it. Go to WalMart(somewhere with an EASY return policy. KEEP YOUR RECEIPT). They have an RCA amplified(or Philip) antenna there that is 10 times better than mine. It retails for just under $30. Get it and bring it home and hook it up to your STB. It may take a while, but try to find a place where you can get KDKA and other stations.

If you can receive these stations via this antenna, then there IS SOMETHING WRONG with your current set-up(bad connection, over amplification, etc....) No way could you get a station at 50 miles away with an indoor amplified antenna, and not be able to receive it with your current set-up.

I highly doubt your STB is at fault. If it receives all the other channels just fine, then that is not it.

TV21CHIEF,

I want you to know that when I said for you to "get your butt in gear and give us some answers", I meant that with respect.

With you knowlege of the inner workings of the stations in this area, your information is SUPER VALUABLE to all of us who live in the area.

I did not mean it as an insult. If it came off that way, I apologize.

Thanks for dropping in here!

A small question, next time you are able to get here... when do you guys kick it up to 460KW at the top? I don't know if I'll be able to squeeze a signal out of you over here in northwest Akron, but I suspect double the power at the top of the tower could help that...

As noted, I used to work in the Youngstown/Warren market, and I'd like to keep tabs on the local news there...

No firm date, but hopefully around July 1 2006.

Thanks, Robert...I guess I'll have to wait!

Oh, well...I think I'm in the wrong part of town to get you guys, anyway. We have someone in the Akron area who posts on the Cleveland thread who gets DT 20, but he's farther southeast than I am...

WBCB actually looks pretty good on 20-2 even with the screen stretched. Much better than most of my cable channels. Any idea on if or when it may show up on Directv, or TWC?

TV21CHIEF's bosses should take it up with DirecTV and Dish, if they haven't already. Digital/cable-only WB affiliates in many other markets have been added to local channel lineups on the satellite providers. The first that comes to mind - "WBVA/WB5" out of Roanoke, VA, which resides as a digital subchannel on WJPR/WFXR "Fox 21/27" in that market and is distributed on local cable. Both D* and E* now carry "WBVA".

I'd be surprised if it WBCB wouldn't be on TWC soon, if it's not already... I assume that's the largest target system in the Valley.

I know chief has said they hit some snags with some of the local cable companies. My tivo already says the WB has moved to channel 14, which is where WBCB's website said it would be. it just hasn't shown up there yet.
Also I was disappointed to see that WYFX-LP wasn't included in the Directv locals package. I thought that was strange considering WKBN owns them and they are on there. It's not really a big deal to me because I can get the Fox from LA/NY but it would be nice to have it, like on Dish. Maybe it's just a matter of time.

It probably is a matter of time...I'm surprised WYFX isn't in DirecTV's locals package as well. DirecTV has historically been more aggressive about including LPTV-based major network affiliates. Heck, down in Roanoke, VA, as I mentioned, it carries the cable/digital only "WBVA", and carried it before Dish...in Cincinnati, DirecTV is the only satellite provider that carries WBQC-CA 25, the market's LPTV UPN affiliate.

I spoke with someone at WKBN/WYFX this afternoon. They will have the WYFX Fox channel up on Directv by the beginning of the year. They are working out some type of technical problem with Directv.