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Youngstown, OH - HDTV - Page 52

post #1531 of 1952
It's already been mentioned that aside from WNEO, all the stations in the area are waiting till the new June date to go all digital.
post #1532 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by atltransplant View Post

I am moving to Youngstown from Atlanta the end of Feb. and for me this is unacceptable. I want to be able to watch CBS in HD and FOX in HD on their own seperate channels. I don't want to watch an inferior HD picture because Youngstown has to have both CBS and FOX on the same channel.

I have been reading through this forum and have noticed that several people have mentioned being able to get the networks from Cleveland and Pittsburgh.

What type of outdoor antenna should I get so that I can receive the Cleveland and Pittsburgh stations?

If you go to antennaweb.org or tvfool.org and type in your address, you will get an idea of what stations you may receive. Also, depending where in the area you plan to move, you may get WTRF CBS channel 7 out of Wheeling. (Which has Fox on 7.2 and ABC on 7.3)

My hometown is 35 miles NE of Youngstown and depending where you live you can get TV signals from Youngstown, Cleveland, Erie, Pittsburgh, Johnstown-Altoona, and Wheeling-Steubenville--that's at least 6 CBS and 4 FOX primary stations.
post #1533 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by atltransplant View Post

I am moving to Youngstown from Atlanta the end of Feb. and for me this is unacceptable. I want to be able to watch CBS in HD and FOX in HD on their own seperate channels. I don't want to watch an inferior HD picture because Youngstown has to have both CBS and FOX on the same channel.

I have been reading through this forum and have noticed that several people have mentioned being able to get the networks from Cleveland and Pittsburgh.

What type of outdoor antenna should I get so that I can receive the Cleveland and Pittsburgh stations?

Also, do any of the stations in Cleveland or Pittsburgh have their local news in HD? In Atlanta ABC, CBS and NBC all have their local news in HD.

Thanks.

You'll want to consider moving to an area that is on high ground and that has few obstructions to the northwest and southeast. You'll also need an antenna system placed as high as possible. Choose to live in an area that is as equidistant from Cleveland and Pittsburgh as possible. I live on high ground in Salem and receive all of the regular power stations from Cleveland and Pittsburgh except WKYC and WTAE. I'll receive WKYC when it moves its digital broadcast to channel 17. WTAE comes in about half of the time. Its transmitter is 70 miles from my home. In addition to the Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Youngstown stations, I receive WTOV from Steubenville, WTRF from Wheeling and WOUC from Cambridge.

The major network stations from Cleveland all have local news in HD. A couple of the Pittsburgh majors have local news in HD.

I'd use separate VHF and UHF antennas. For VHF, use a Winegard YA-1713, and for UHF use an Antennas Direct 91XG. Mount the 91XG at least 5' higher than the YA-1713. Combine the antennas with a Pico Macom UVSJ. From the output of the UVSJ run a short cable to a mast mounted Winegard HDP-269 preamplifier. You'll need the HDP-269 because it is highly resistant to overload that you'll encounter due to your close proximity to local stations. You'll also need to use a rotator like the Channel Master 9521A. Use high quality RG6 cable. Input your future potential exact address at TV Fool to get an idea of the reception possibilities.
post #1534 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by probinson View Post

Unfortunately, the "center-cutting" is how networks are going to handle this. That is why the channel logo bugs have been moved to the 4:3 safe area. I don't think the problem is with the local stations, or Dish network. The problem is with the networks themselves, which have embraced the center-cutting for older TV's.

A couple of locals have dealt with this by offering 2 versions of their brodcast. Channels 6, 22, and 53 all have both SD and HD versions of their brodcasts. So you don't have the center cut on the SD channel.
post #1535 of 1952
Tonight when I turned on the TV, I noticed that WKBN is now on Directv in high def, although in 720p. But FOX is still at 480i.

I switched to the antenna, and 27.1 is still at 720P and 27.2 is still at 720P. And even though 27.1 has been downgraded from 1080i, and I didn't like it at first, lately the picture looks very good, and I'm glad we finally can get a FOX HD signal.

And it looks like there is a new WKBN logo!
post #1536 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by WKBN Chief View Post

Hey guys,
We are testing a dual HD feed over the air feed today for WKBN and WYFX (27.1 & 27.2). Of course I'm fully aware of the hit in performance but I think it looks pretty good. I'd be interested in your opinions as to the tradeoff between the hit in performance and the ability to broadcast BOTH CBS and Fox in HD. No guarantees as to how long it will be up like this. I'm going to try and keep it at least through prime tonight depending on whether there are any problems reported to me. Right now CBS has college BB and Fox has Nascar. This is probably a fairly rigorous test for the stat muxing capabilities of my encoders. In other words, what you are seeing this afternoon will be quite representative of the worst case situation.

I guess this is why even my wife refuses to watch CBS or FOX in HD. The PQ is the worst we've ever seen on Armstrong. The SD channel of CBS looks better than the HD. Picture breaks up and audio drops about every 5 min. Maybe Armstrong could carry the Pitts. stations instead. We used to have great PQ on CBS and FOX , What went wrong???
post #1537 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postal1 View Post

I guess this is why even my wife refuses to watch CBS or FOX in HD. The PQ is the worst we've ever seen on Armstrong. The SD channel of CBS looks better than the HD. Picture breaks up and audio drops about every 5 min. Maybe Armstrong could carry the Pitts. stations instead. We used to have great PQ on CBS and FOX , What went wrong???

No problem here using OTA. In fact the quality is the best its ever been.
post #1538 of 1952
Yep. The quality is pretty decent using OTA here also.

On Monday and Tuesday during 24 and American Idol, they jumped out of the HD feed on Fox a couple times, but other than that, it's been pretty good.
post #1539 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postal1 View Post

I guess this is why even my wife refuses to watch CBS or FOX in HD. The PQ is the worst we've ever seen on Armstrong. The SD channel of CBS looks better than the HD. Picture breaks up and audio drops about every 5 min. Maybe Armstrong could carry the Pitts. stations instead. We used to have great PQ on CBS and FOX , What went wrong???

Sounds like KDKA OTA and on Comcast cable. Same problem here, the SD channel is much better than the HD version. Poor PQ and sound, picture and sound drops out same as what you mention. I usually switch to WKBN OTA to watch CBS, no issues at all. But you are seeing the opposite?
post #1540 of 1952
Band's open this morning... Zenith found 12 new channels...
WPXI, WQED, WPMY, KDKA, WTAE, WTOV... first look at RTN on 11-2...
all this from an inside 2 bay bowtie antenna in North Canton!

post #1541 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postal1 View Post

I guess this is why even my wife refuses to watch CBS or FOX in HD. The PQ is the worst we've ever seen on Armstrong. The SD channel of CBS looks better than the HD. Picture breaks up and audio drops about every 5 min. Maybe Armstrong could carry the Pitts. stations instead. We used to have great PQ on CBS and FOX , What went wrong???

It must be your cable system. I get WKBN-DT 24/7 OTA with an indoor, nonamplified Silver Sensor. I'm 57 miles from Youngstown. PQ is excellent on both CBS and FOX.
post #1542 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by atltransplant View Post

I am moving to Youngstown from Atlanta the end of Feb. and for me this is unacceptable. I want to be able to watch CBS in HD and FOX in HD on their own seperate channels. I don't want to watch an inferior HD picture because Youngstown has to have both CBS and FOX on the same channel.

I have been reading through this forum and have noticed that several people have mentioned being able to get the networks from Cleveland and Pittsburgh.

What type of outdoor antenna should I get so that I can receive the Cleveland and Pittsburgh stations?

Also, do any of the stations in Cleveland or Pittsburgh have their local news in HD? In Atlanta ABC, CBS and NBC all have their local news in HD.

Thanks.

Forget the Cleveland CBS station. Their digital signal is on a high VHF channel that has a Canadian analog station just across the lake (ch 10 CFPL-TV London, Ontario). Canada is far behind the U.S. in digital conversion, so WOIO will have to protect CFPL for some time, resulting in a less than average coverage area compared to the rest of the Cleveland locals. WOIO would have been better off returning to their analog legacy channel 19, but no, the cheepo ownership would rather save on the electricity bill and make cable & satellite "fill in the gap". Fortunately WKBN-DT has the best coverage of any digital signal on the air in N.E. Ohio, covering an area from central Cleveland to central Pittsburgh!
post #1543 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

Forget the Cleveland CBS station. Their digital signal is on a high VHF channel that has a Canadian analog station just across the lake (ch 10 CFPL-TV London, Ontario). Canada is far behind the U.S. in digital conversion, so WOIO will have to protect CFPL for some time, resulting in a less than average coverage area compared to the rest of the Cleveland locals. WOIO would have been better off returning to their analog legacy channel 19, but no, the cheepo ownership would rather save on the electricity bill and make cable & satellite "fill in the gap". Fortunately WKBN-DT has the best coverage of any digital signal on the air in N.E. Ohio, covering an area from central Cleveland to central Pittsburgh!

Why should he give up on WOIO, Michael? I receive WOIO 24/7 here in Salem at 55 miles from the transmitter. Depending on where he moves to in the Youngstown area, he may not have any problems receiving WOIO with the proper set up. WOIO's picture quality is superior to WKBN's. Moreover, WKBN is downconverting CBS's native 1080i resolution to 720P and using half of its bandwidth to televise FOX on 27.2. The difference in picture quality between WOIO and WKBN is not subtle. He'll also be able to pick up KDKA out of Pittsburgh. KDKA has the best picture quality of CBS affiliates that are receivable in the Youngstown area. It has no subchannels. BTW, I also receive Wheeling's WTRF 24/7. It is broadcasting CBS on 7.1, FOX on 7.2 and ABC on 7.3. The picture quality is horrible.
post #1544 of 1952
WTOV-TV intends to cease analog broadcasting on April 16 at 12:30 p.m, which is before the nationwide deadline on June 12, 2009.
__________________
post #1545 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by salemtubes View Post

Why should he give up on WOIO, Michael? I receive WOIO 24/7 here in Salem at 55 miles from the transmitter. Depending on where he moves to in the Youngstown area, he may not have any problems receiving WOIO with the proper set up. WOIO's picture quality is superior to WKBN's. Moreover, WKBN is downconverting CBS's native 1080i resolution to 720P and using half of its bandwidth to televise FOX on 27.2. The difference in picture quality between WOIO and WKBN is not subtle. He'll also be able to pick up KDKA out of Pittsburgh. KDKA has the best picture quality of CBS affiliates that are receivable in the Youngstown area. It has no subchannels. BTW, I also receive Wheeling's WTRF 24/7. It is broadcasting CBS on 7.1, FOX on 7.2 and ABC on 7.3. The picture quality is horrible.

Have you seen WOIO-DT's coverage map? You are lucky to be getting it @55 miles! Viewers closer than you have problems thanks to Raycom's insistence on being on ch 10 when the analog ch 10 CFPL-TV in London Ontario is not going away any time soon. Anyone north of I-90 in Lake and Ashtabula counties have problems with WOIO-DT. There is also an analog ch 10 in Columbus, but they were not allowed to go back to their legacy frequency (probably due to Raycom's lock on ch 10).

After the transition, WOIO-DT will have to continue to protect CFPL-TV, making their "full power" signal coverage area smaller than the rest of the Cleveland stations. WKBN-DT OTOH has the best coverage of any station in N.E. Ohio. It's a shame none of the Cleveland stations (or the other Y'town stations for that matter) could get that kind of coverage. If the rest of the Y'town stations had better coverage, they could probably take Ashtabula County away from the Cleveland DMA.
post #1546 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

Have you seen WOIO-DT's coverage map? You are lucky to be getting it @55 miles! Viewers closer than you have problems thanks to Raycom's insistence on being on ch 10 when the analog ch 10 CFPL-TV in London Ontario is not going away any time soon. Anyone north of I-90 in Lake and Ashtabula counties have problems with WOIO-DT. There is also an analog ch 10 in Columbus, but they were not allowed to go back to their legacy frequency (probably due to Raycom's lock on ch 10).

After the transition, WOIO-DT will have to continue to protect CFPL-TV, making their "full power" signal coverage area smaller than the rest of the Cleveland stations. WKBN-DT OTOH has the best coverage of any station in N.E. Ohio. It's a shame none of the Cleveland stations (or the other Y'town stations for that matter) could get that kind of coverage. If the rest of the Y'town stations had better coverage, they could probably take Ashtabula County away from the Cleveland DMA.

Yes, I've seen WOIO's current coverage map. I'm at least a few miles outside of its limit. Of course, I'm sure you realize that the coverage maps at the FCC web site represent not actual but theoretical contours. WOIO has applied to increase its power output from 3.5 kW ERP to 10.3 kW ERP. You can review the projected coverage map HERE. If the FCC approves the power increase, more than half of the Youngstown area will fall within WOIO's service contour. Regardless of whether or not Atltransplant wants to receive WOIO, he'll need an antenna capable of receiving VHF high band stations if he wants to receive WJW, WQED and WTOV after they shut off their analog transmitters.

Yes, WBNS of Columbus also broadcasts on channel 10. It may cause interference in this area during periods of tropospheric propagation, but I've never experienced problems caused by WBNS. We also don't experience interference problems caused by CFPL.
post #1547 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

Have you seen WOIO-DT's coverage map? You are lucky to be getting it @55 miles! Viewers closer than you have problems

I was able to receive WOIO-DT pretty reliably with a 2nd floor inside antenna (amplified rabbit ears) in North Canton... BUT only with an FM trap before the preamp... I suspect the local 96-99 MHz FMs were overloading the preamp creating 2nd harmonic trash in channel 10's 192-198 MHz passband... even with that, the adjustment of the rabbit ears was critical... this was with the old RS Accurian DTV box... imagine the Zenith would do better...

post #1548 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

I was able to receive WOIO-DT pretty reliably with a 2nd floor inside antenna (amplified rabbit ears) in North Canton... BUT only with an FM trap before the preamp... I suspect the local 96-99 MHz FMs were overloading the preamp creating 2nd harmonic trash in channel 10's 192-198 MHz passband... even with that, the adjustment of the rabbit ears was critical... this was with the old RS Accurian DTV box... imagine the Zenith would do better...


I'm also using an FM trap to avoid 2nd harmonic interference on channel 10 from the FM band. I guess that I should also let Michael know that I have a Winegard YA-1713 high band VHF antenna mounted on a 55' tower along with a rotator and a Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna. I'm also using a Channel Master 7777 preamplifier; however, I need to attenuate the signal level by about 10 dB to prevent overloading the front end of my Dish ViP 622. When I redo my system, I'll replace the 7777 with a Winegard HDP-269 preamplifier and use a Pico Macom UVSJ to join the UHF and VHF antennas. My location is also on high ground at about 1250' above sea level.
post #1549 of 1952
On Thursday, did anyone else notice WKBN lost the HD feed for the NCAA Tournament for the 4:00 games? Not sure what happened there.
post #1550 of 1952
I haven't got my outside antenna put up yet but things look good at least for the Cleveland stations.

With my rabbit ears I can get 21, 27, 33 and 45 in digital without any trouble and if I get the rabbit ears set just right I can get 5-1 WEWS from Cleveland and 17 WDLI without any dropouts. I get several other digital signals including WOIO but the signals are too weak to get a lock.

I can also get channels 19, 43 and 55 in analog, 19 being the best but all of them are watchable.

I'm hoping I can get CBS in 1080 and CW in 1080 like I used to get them in Atlanta and I also hope I can get my RTN back.

When I get my antennas up I'll let everyone know what I can get in DTV at my new location in Youngstown.
post #1551 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by atltransplant View Post

I haven't got my outside antenna put up yet but things look good at least for the Cleveland stations.

With my rabbit ears I can get 21, 27, 33 and 45 in digital without any trouble and if I get the rabbit ears set just right I can get 5-1 WEWS from Cleveland and 17 WDLI without any dropouts. I get several other digital signals including WOIO but the signals are too weak to get a lock.

I can also get channels 19, 43 and 55 in analog, 19 being the best but all of them are watchable.

I'm hoping I can get CBS in 1080 and CW in 1080 like I used to get them in Atlanta and I also hope I can get my RTN back.

When I get my antennas up I'll let everyone know what I can get in DTV at my new location in Youngstown.

Check your exact address at TVFool.com. Again, I highly recommend the following setup:

I'd use separate VHF and UHF antennas. For VHF, use a Winegard YA-1713, and for UHF use an Antennas Direct 91XG. Mount the 91XG at least 5' higher than the YA-1713. Combine the antennas with a Pico Macom UVSJ. From the output of the UVSJ run a short cable to a mast mounted Winegard HDP-269 preamplifier. You'll need the HDP-269 because it is highly resistant to overload that you'll encounter due to your close proximity to local stations. You'll also need to use a rotator like the Channel Master 9521A. Use high quality RG6 cable. Input your future potential exact address at TV Fool to get an idea of the reception possibilities.
post #1552 of 1952
Has anyone else noticed that Dish Network has finally gone online with WKBN and WYTV in HD? Now all we need is WYFX and WFMJ ...

post #1553 of 1952
Still waiting for WYFX on DirecTV too, any news on this guy's?
post #1554 of 1952
according to the uplink reports on satelliteguys, there are at least place holders for WYFX and WFMJ on Dish. Seems wierd that WYFX isn't up since it is all part of the WKBN/WYTV/WYFX comglomerate!
post #1555 of 1952
Got the phone call last night from Dish. Only problem is that I have 61.5 new HD's on 129. Have to change back to 129.
post #1556 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmcomputer View Post

Got the phone call last night from Dish. Only problem is that I have 61.5 new HD's on 129. Have to change back to 129.

That's my problem too. Except I can't get line of sight to 129, so I guess I'm out of luck.

post #1557 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by probinson View Post

That's my problem too. Except I can't get line of sight to 129, so I guess I'm out of luck.


I don't understand why Dish will not put us on the Eastern Arc. I also had a problem with 129, thats why I went to 61.5 with wing dish. I will try 129 again since they put up a new satellite if it does'nt work I guess I will go back to 61.5 and continue to use OTA.
post #1558 of 1952
H have a dish 1000, which pulls in 110, 119, and 129. I checked the signal strengths on the three sats yesterday on the dish setup screen.

119 - 71

110 - 77

129 - 48

Since dish changed the scales, they are much lower than they used to be, but they are all in the "green", and they all work. I guess that is the most important thing.....
post #1559 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSIsabella View Post

H have a dish 1000, which pulls in 110, 119, and 129. I checked the signal strengths on the three sats yesterday on the dish setup screen.

119 - 71

110 - 77

129 - 48

Since dish changed the scales, they are much lower than they used to be, but they are all in the "green", and they all work. I guess that is the most important thing.....

Well I just tried 129 no good, to many trees. I guess I will stick with OTA for now.

119 - 78

110 - 80

129 - 00

I still think they should mirror 129 to 61.5
post #1560 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmcomputer View Post

I still think they should mirror 129 to 61.5

I moved my dish pointed at 61.5° to 129° a couple of years ago in order to receive Indians games in HD. STO HD isn't on 61.5°.
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