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Youngstown, OH - HDTV - Page 7

post #181 of 1919
2/23/06 at 11:45am
Hopefully all our questions will be answered and all our expectations met or exceeded on April 1(and not an April Fools joke on us).
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post #182 of 1919
2/23/06 at 12:33pm
If they do indeed go live 4/1 at their full licensed power, we may actually be able to get a shot at the station in much of the Akron area. We'll see...
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post #183 of 1919
2/23/06 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by firemantom26 View Post

I wonder what kind of coverage their signal will provide. I get WFMJ great and 33 analog ok and once in a while their digital signal.

According to the FCC, it should look something like this:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html

They are licensed for 700 kW on their digital xmitter. If you believe these coverage maps on the FCC website, their coverage will be better than WFMJ-DT.

FWIW, I can pull in a solid signal on WFMJ-DT in North Canton using an INDOOR antenna (pointed northeast out a north facing window). Can't get WYTV-DT, though.
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post #184 of 1919
2/25/06 at 3:24pm
Hello to everyone. I would like to introduce myself as the Chief Engineer of Piedmont Television of Youngstown, LLC. which operates the CBS affiliate WKBN-TV Ch. 27 in Youngstown and the Fox affiliate WYFX-LP Ch. 62 in Youngstown and WFXI-CA Ch. 17 in Mercer, Pa.

Before I get into the meat of what you all really want to know, please indulge me for a couple of personal comments. First, I would like to thank Bob Flis (TV21CHIEF) for getting me to look at and join this forum and for attempting to provide some information and explanation when a lot of rumor and speculation was abounding concerning WKBN. Bob is a good friend of mine and an informed broadcast engineer. Second, I apologize for the lack of information previously available. Please believe me when I tell you that everyone at WKBN has been working very hard to bring digital and high definition to our station. Do not mistake silence for apathy. For a long time we have been fighting many battles and obstacles to bring you digital. Many of you have called or emailed me or the General Manager only to get vague timeframe responses. Again I apologize, but we truly did not hold the control of our destiny in our own hands. OK, time to put the violin away and get into the meat.

The target date to be on air is May first. This is an aggressive schedule and will largely be determined by equipment delivery, much of which is due to arrive early to mid April. We will be going on with our full-power signal of 700 KW. Most of you should not have any problems picking us up over the air. We will also be carrying our Fox 17/62 as a multiplex on the digital signal. This will be a great relief to those of you in the fringe areas of the low power Fox transmitters. It will also solve our long time problem with DirecTV since they could not get a useable signal at their local receive facility in Salem. Oh, and one more item, we will be Dolby 5.1 Surround Sound for the network programs. I'm sure that there are many more question out there and I will do my best to answer them and keep you updated with our progress.
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post #185 of 1919
2/25/06 at 8:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WKBN Chief View Post

Hello to everyone. I would like to introduce myself as the Chief Engineer of Piedmont Television of Youngstown, LLC. which operates the CBS affiliate WKBN-TV Ch. 27 in Youngstown and the Fox affiliate WYFX-LP Ch. 62 in Youngstown and WFXI-CA Ch. 17 in Mercer, Pa.

Before I get into the meat of what you all really want to know, please indulge me for a couple of personal comments. First, I would like to thank Bob Flis (TV21CHIEF) for getting me to look at and join this forum and for attempting to provide some information and explanation when a lot of rumor and speculation was abounding concerning WKBN. Bob is a good friend of mine and an informed broadcast engineer. Second, I apologize for the lack of information previously available. Please believe me when I tell you that everyone at WKBN has been working very hard to bring digital and high definition to our station. Do not mistake silence for apathy. For a long time we have been fighting many battles and obstacles to bring you digital. Many of you have called or emailed me or the General Manager only to get vague timeframe responses. Again I apologize, but we truly did not hold the control of our destiny in our own hands. OK, time to put the violin away and get into the meat.

The target date to be on air is May first. This is an aggressive schedule and will largely be determined by equipment delivery, much of which is due to arrive early to mid April. We will be going on with our full-power signal of 700 KW. Most of you should not have any problems picking us up over the air. We will also be carrying our Fox 17/62 as a multiplex on the digital signal. This will be a great relief to those of you in the fringe areas of the low power Fox transmitters. It will also solve our long time problem with DirecTV since they could not get a useable signal at their local receive facility in Salem. Oh, and one more item, we will be Dolby 5.1 Surround Sound for the network programs. I'm sure that there are many more question out there and I will do my best to answer them and keep you updated with our progress.

First of al I would like to say welcome to this forum and this is great news for all of us .
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post #186 of 1919
2/26/06 at 6:09pm
Welcome, Thomas, and thank you for the update!

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post #187 of 1919
2/27/06 at 7:27am
Thank you Tom! This is great news. I'm happy that you are going to put FOX 17/62 on a subchannel.

If the digital signal's footprint is close to the map at the FCC site then I should be able to pick up WKBN-DT full time (I'm right on the edge, but I'm also on high ground).
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post #188 of 1919
2/27/06 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WKBN Chief View Post

We will also be carrying our Fox 17/62 as a multiplex on the digital signal.

Thomas,
How much of your bandwidth are you going to devote to the Fox subchannel? I'm just concerned that what we will end up with on the CBS side will be some form of HD-lite. Thanks for participating in this forum.
Steve
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post #189 of 1919
2/27/06 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC View Post

Thomas,
How much of your bandwidth are you going to devote to the Fox subchannel? I'm just concerned that what we will end up with on the CBS side will be some form of HD-lite. Thanks for participating in this forum.
Steve

I would not be too concerned about one subchannel messing up the main HD feed. WKYC has Weather Plus, WFMJ has "WBCB", WUAB has "The Tube". I don't see the difference between those stations and the rest that don't have a subchannel (i.e. WEWS, WJW and WOIO).

I'm looking forward to having an alternitive to 3,5,8 & 19 (especially during Football season). Once in a while the Youngstown stations carry different games.
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post #190 of 1919
2/27/06 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I would not be too concerned about one subchannel messing up the main HD feed. WKYC has Weather Plus, WFMJ has "WBCB", WUAB has "The Tube". I don't see the difference between those stations and the rest that don't have a subchannel (i.e. WEWS, WJW and WOIO).

You are absolutely right, Michael. We will not be doing anything much differently than anyone else doing a (single) multiplexed subchannel; we certainly don't want to put out a poor HD product. For most programming you probably won't be able to tell the difference.
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post #191 of 1919
2/27/06 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I would not be too concerned about one subchannel messing up the main HD feed. WKYC has Weather Plus, WFMJ has "WBCB", WUAB has "The Tube". I don't see the difference between those stations and the rest that don't have a subchannel (i.e. WEWS, WJW and WOIO).

I've generally not noticed it either, but I did notice some macroblocking during the NBC HD Olympics coverage, particularly during fast motion sequences with a lot of color. I don't know if that was at the source, or if WKYC's Weather Plus was the reason.

Most stuff doesn't move fast and have lots of bright color, though.
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post #192 of 1919
2/27/06 at 2:03pm
Man I cannot wait till cbs hdtv... Thomas have you seen any shows in hd on cbs if so how does the 1080 look compared to 720 for shows...thanks
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post #193 of 1919
2/28/06 at 1:45pm
i have another question. What if I would hook up my directv hd reciever to my 4 by 3 analog tv upstairs because it has component imputs would i be able to recieve like wcwb and the hd channels although they wouldn't be in hd it would just show the bars or what would happen because this tv does have component input and the box has outputs
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post #194 of 1919
2/28/06 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolguy202 View Post

i have another question. What if I would hook up my directv hd reciever to my 4 by 3 analog tv upstairs because it has component imputs would i be able to recieve like wcwb and the hd channels although they wouldn't be in hd it would just show the bars or what would happen because this tv does have component input and the box has outputs

On the STB's I have available to me, the SD shows will fill the 4:3 screen like normal. The HD shows have options to resize the image to your preference. Unfortunately I don't have any satellite/ATSC tuner boxes.
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post #195 of 1919
2/28/06 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolguy202 View Post

i have another question. What if I would hook up my directv hd reciever to my 4 by 3 analog tv upstairs because it has component imputs would i be able to recieve like wcwb and the hd channels although they wouldn't be in hd it would just show the bars or what would happen because this tv does have component input and the box has outputs

That is sort-of what my current set-up is! A Sony 27" analog set and a Dish Network 921. There are 4 choices whenever an HD feed is present (YMMV on a DirecTV STB but I bet it's similar) :

1.) Gray Bars (basically letterbox with gray bars)
2.) Letterbox (with black bars)
3.) Stretch (converts 16 X 9 to 4 X 3) Ony looks good when 4 X 3 content gets stretched by the broadcaster - Stretch basically returns the picture back to 4 X 3.
4.) Zoom ( when 4 X 3 is not stretch by the broadcaster you will get a smaller 4 X 3 inside a black box. Zoom fills up a 4 X 3 screen in these cases.

Note: The subchannels automatically fill a 4 X 3 screen, as they are all SD, however SD content on a "main" channel will need to be "zoomed" to fill a 4 X 3 screen.
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post #196 of 1919
2/28/06 at 5:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

That is sort-of what my current set-up is! A Sony 27" analog set and a Dish Network 921. There are 4 choices whenever an HD feed is present (YMMV on a DirecTV STB but I bet it's similar) :

1.) Gray Bars (basically letterbox with gray bars)
2.) Letterbox (with black bars)
3.) Stretch (converts 16 X 9 to 4 X 3) Ony looks good when 4 X 3 content gets stretched by the broadcaster - Stretch basically returns the picture back to 4 X 3.
4.) Zoom ( when 4 X 3 is not stretch by the broadcaster you will get a smaller 4 X 3 inside a black box. Zoom fills up a 4 X 3 screen in these cases.

Note: The subchannels automatically fill a 4 X 3 screen, as they are all SD, however SD content on a "main" channel will need to be "zoomed" to fill a 4 X 3 screen.

So you mean if i do this of course it would not be hd obiviously but i would be able to view the digital channels like kdka-dt on an analog set? But not in hd of course am i right?
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post #197 of 1919
3/1/06 at 5:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolguy202 View Post

So you mean if i do this of course it would not be hd obiviously but i would be able to view the digital channels like kdka-dt on an analog set? But not in hd of course am i right?


Yes, you are right. I watch our HD in my office every day on a 10 year old 25" analog TV using a Zenith HDR230.
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post #198 of 1919
3/1/06 at 2:37pm
Hd will make a good analog set look it's best, however on some programs there are artifacts. The lines on a football stadium tend to look jagged from some camera angles, but other than that I'm pleased with the PQ.

For one thing the PQ on digital OTA blows away the satellite delivered SD content thanks to the lack of copmression.
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post #199 of 1919
3/1/06 at 5:05pm
Well guys went to best buy bought an rca 10 db gain antenna and 50ft coax threw it out my front window and layed it ontop of my 3 foot tall ros bush pointed at 104 degrees and boom kdka-dt....cbs hd is awesome...well i am going to go back and watch cbs hd for the first time later!!!And also i am recieveing wpxi-dt and that weather thing that there nbc affliate in pittsburgh has so almost all pittsburgh channels except for wtae abc
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post #200 of 1919
3/2/06 at 4:05pm
WTAE's transmitter is located in a different area, so you may still be able to get them as well if you reaim.

The reason WTAE's transmitter is in a different area is because at one time WTAE was the only ABC affilliate for 3 markets: Pittsburgh, Steubenville/Wheelilng, and Johnstown/Altoona. J/AT now has their own ABC, but WTAE is still the ABC for S/W.
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post #201 of 1919
3/4/06 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackKnight View Post

According to the FCC, it should look something like this:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html

They are licensed for 700 kW on their digital xmitter. If you believe these coverage maps on the FCC website, their coverage will be better than WFMJ-DT.

FWIW, I can pull in a solid signal on WFMJ-DT in North Canton using an INDOOR antenna (pointed northeast out a north facing window). Can't get WYTV-DT, though.

Whoo Hoo! If that coverage map is correct I'm inside the contour line. This is the only Youngstown station that gets out this far! (I'm just outside the contour line for WFMJ-DT). In this map WKBN-DT reaches all the way to Strongsville & Medina!
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post #202 of 1919
3/4/06 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

Whoo Hoo! If that coverage map is correct I'm inside the contour line. This is the only Youngstown station that gets out this far! (I'm just outside the contour line for WFMJ-DT). In this map WKBN-DT reaches all the way to Strongsville & Medina!

Take those FCC plots with a grain of salt. They have been pretty accurate for me, but YMMV.
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post #203 of 1919
3/4/06 at 12:08pm
I stumbled upon this on the WKBN/WYFX website:
http://www.wkbn.com/programschedule/1875447.html

I know it's just a "tease" but I'd rather see that tease on the "KBN" side not the "YFX" side. If this tease means WYFX will be carrying the Indians OTA games, then that means no HD for Youngstown (unless you can pull in WKYC-DT. There are many within the Cleveland DMA that have problems with WKYC-DT). Hopefully WKBN-DT will be on the air by the time the first game airs.

For those hoping for an alternitive to WKYC-DT for the Indians, set your ASTC box to 27-2.
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post #204 of 1919
3/4/06 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I know it's just a "tease" but I'd rather see that tease on the "KBN" side not the "YFX" side. If this tease means WYFX will be carrying the Indians OTA games, then that means no HD for Youngstown (unless you can pull in WKYC-DT. There are many within the Cleveland DMA that have problems with WKYC-DT).

It does sound like the games will be on WYFX, not WKBN, though presumably they could clear some games on WKBN if they have the corporate rights to them.

I suspect the problem with WKBN as the primary is the network preemption issue, which I assume is more difficult with CBS than it is with FOX. WKYC has the same problem, of course, with NBC...but there could still be preemption issues WKBN would see with CBS that WKYC would not see with NBC.
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post #205 of 1919
3/4/06 at 1:45pm
This is GREAT NEWS!!

I, like most here, can't wait, mainly for the Sports.

Using an indoor antenna, I get all the local stations near me(Youngstown,OH and PBS out of Canton/Akron 45/49), and also get KDKA(Perfect)/WPXI(some breakups)/WPGH(some breakups). I get all the Burgh stations on CLEAR QAM, including PBS(Except for WPGH/FOX. DAMN YOU SINCLAIR BROADCASTING!!! ROT IN HELL!!! and also UPN/19 out of Jeanette, and WCWB/22 out of the Burgh) and the current local HD/digital YTown stations on Clear QAM as well with my LG LST-4200A.

(WKBN CHIEF/Tom Zocolo: Will the WKBN/WYFX HD/digital channels be carried by my local cable co.(Adelphia) like WFMJ/CBWB and WYTV have just been currently added in the last month?

On WYFX they do show a different game(during the NFL season) than WPGH out of Pittsburgh, but this all depends on who gets the doubleheader game for the week between CBS and Fox, and also when the Steeler game is on in Pittsburgh, and when the Cleveland game is on in Youngstown,OH(WKBN falls into Clevelands local market).

I would typically cay that although I only have analog cable, I typically get too see about 5-6 different games a week(these obviously include the Sundaynight/Monday night games. Sometimes more, but no less than 5. Screw the DirecTV NFL Plan. I care about the Steelers game obviously, and the others are just icing on the cake. Of course, if I lived in a different part of the country, I would consider getting the NFL Package from DirecTV
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post #206 of 1919
3/4/06 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I stumbled upon this on the WKBN/WYFX website:
http://www.wkbn.com/programschedule/1875447.html

I know it's just a "tease" but I'd rather see that tease on the "KBN" side not the "YFX" side. If this tease means WYFX will be carrying the Indians OTA games, then that means no HD for Youngstown (unless you can pull in WKYC-DT. There are many within the Cleveland DMA that have problems with WKYC-DT). Hopefully WKBN-DT will be on the air by the time the first game airs.

For those hoping for an alternitive to WKYC-DT for the Indians, set your ASTC box to 27-2.

Arrgh!

It does indeed look like WYFX is going to be carrying the Indians games, which means no HD. So much for my fallback when I can't pick up WKYC-DT (although, I will at least be able to watch in SD).

I looked at the schedule that they have posted on the website and it does look exactly like WKYC's Indians broadcast schedule.

To comment on Inundated's comment about network preemption being an issue with WKBN - most of the WKYC broadcasts are on Saturday and Sunday afternoons - probably so WKYC can minimize preempting NBC. There should not be much of an issue with WKBN preempting CBS on weekend afternoons.
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post #207 of 1919
3/4/06 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

(WKBN CHIEF/Tom Zocolo: Will the WKBN/WYFX HD/digital channels be carried by my local cable co.(Adelphia) like WFMJ/CBWB and WYTV have just been currently added in the last month?

I'm not Mr. Zocolo, but I'll take this up -

WYFX will not have an HD component over-air...as a low-power station(s), it doesn't have a digital counterpart. The FCC recently announced that it would allow LPTVers to apply for a second digital station (instead of having to "flash cut" from analog to digital), but I don't know if Piedmont is going to do so for the WYFX stations. Even if they do, it'd take time to approve and construct those.

Mr. Zocolo did indicate that the SD signal of WYFX/WFXI will be carried as a subchannel on WKBN-DT. There's not enough room for two HD signals on the same OTA channel, so that FOX 17/62 simulcast will only be in SD.

Piedmont could elect to feed a FOX HD cable-only feed to local cable companies, though I have no idea if that's even in their plans.

Mr. Zocolo? Back to you
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post #208 of 1919
3/4/06 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I stumbled upon this on the WKBN/WYFX website:
...

I know it's just a "tease" but I'd rather see that tease on the "KBN" side not the "YFX" side. If this tease means WYFX will be carrying the Indians OTA games, then that means no HD for Youngstown (unless you can pull in WKYC-DT. There are many within the Cleveland DMA that have problems with WKYC-DT). Hopefully WKBN-DT will be on the air by the time the first game airs.

For those hoping for an alternitive to WKYC-DT for the Indians, set your ASTC box to 27-2.

Fox 17/62 will be carrying the Indians this year. We are very excited to bring this to the valley. Unfortunately, the games will not be available in HD, even if we did put them on the KBN side. This is because a HD satellite feed will not be available. The satellite distribution of these games will be only in SD. We, too, were excited when we first started talking about carrying the Indians' games only to be disappointed when we learned of the SD feed. Keep in mind that this is a new endeavor and if it is successful, more effort will likely be put into the HD distribution down the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

This is GREAT NEWS!!

(WKBN CHIEF/Tom Zocolo: Will the WKBN/WYFX HD/digital channels be carried by my local cable co.(Adelphia) like WFMJ/CBWB and WYTV have just been currently added in the last month?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inundated View Post

I'm not Mr. Zocolo, but I'll take this up -

WYFX will not have an HD component over-air...as a low-power station(s), it doesn't have a digital counterpart. The FCC recently announced that it would allow LPTVers to apply for a second digital station (instead of having to "flash cut" from analog to digital), but I don't know if Piedmont is going to do so for the WYFX stations. Even if they do, it'd take time to approve and construct those.

Mr. Zocolo did indicate that the SD signal of WYFX/WFXI will be carried as a subchannel on WKBN-DT. There's not enough room for two HD signals on the same OTA channel, so that FOX 17/62 simulcast will only be in SD.

Piedmont could elect to feed a FOX HD cable-only feed to local cable companies, though I have no idea if that's even in their plans.

Mr. Zocolo? Back to you

I am happy to say that Fox 17/62 will be providing a HD feed to Armstrong via fiber. We are very excited about this as are the folks at Armstrong Cable. They have been great to work with and they are eager to provide Fox network HD programming to their subscribers. We are also in discussions with a couple of other parties and I will provide more detail on them when the time is appropriate.

Inundated's assessment of our Fox 17/62 over-the-air situation regarding digital and HD is accurate but not quite complete. Even if we were willing to spend a kagillion dollars, there is not one single TV channel available in Youngstown (or the vicinity.) We have done more than one study with different consultants, and it just isn't there. Think of the proximity of Youngstown to all of the surrounding television markets Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Akron/Canton, Erie, Steubenville, etc. and then consider all of the television stations that now have TWO channels that they are using. When applying for a television channel allocation, you must not only protect (not interfere with) the fringes of co-channels, but you must also protect adjacent channels. Youngstown is literally in the bosom of television.
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post #209 of 1919
3/4/06 at 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WKBN Chief View Post

Fox 17/62 will be carrying the Indians this year. We are very excited to bring this to the valley. Unfortunately, the games will not be available in HD, even if we did put them on the KBN side. This is because a HD satellite feed will not be available. The satellite distribution of these games will be only in SD. We, too, were excited when we first started talking about carrying the Indians' games only to be disappointed when we learned of the SD feed. Keep in mind that this is a new endeavor and if it is successful, more effort will likely be put into the HD distribution down the road.

I could have sworn I'd read SportsTime Ohio's boss say that they were talking about HD distribution to the affiliates outside Cleveland/WKYC, but I could have been reading it wrong.

Congratulations for picking it up for Fox 17/62!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WKBN Chief View Post

I am happy to say that Fox 17/62 will be providing a HD feed to Armstrong via fiber. We are very excited about this as are the folks at Armstrong Cable. They have been great to work with and they are eager to provide Fox network HD programming to their subscribers. We are also in discussions with a couple of other parties and I will provide more detail on them when the time is appropriate.

This is also very good news. The cable feed has been used in a few other markets, and it's being used by an LPTV combo in South Bend IN to bring ABC, and presumably eventually the CW Network, to the viewers of that city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WKBN Chief View Post

Inundated's assessment of our Fox 17/62 over-the-air situation regarding digital and HD is accurate but not quite complete. Even if we were willing to spend a kagillion dollars, there is not one single TV channel available in Youngstown (or the vicinity.) We have done more than one study with different consultants, and it just isn't there.

Ah, yes, the fact that you're surrounded by a bunch of markets. I assume that you made that study even for other LPTV allocations? I wasn't sure if there was a way to even squeeze one more LPTV allocation into Youngstown for a second, digital LPTV channel for WYFX. Of course, I'd have bet the farm that you couldn't do another full-power allocation in the Valley.

Anyway, it sounds like you have the HD FOX situation under control with at least one cable company, so it isn't as big a deal as it could be.
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post #210 of 1919
3/5/06 at 9:15am
So if we try to recieve 17/62 hd feed we cant only through cable....i have directv
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