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Youngstown, OH - HDTV - Page 13

post #361 of 1952
Believe it or not, I get a better signal out of WKBN-DT from Youngstown in parts of my house than I get out of WOIO-DT out of Cleveland. And I'm firmly in the Akron area, northwest of downtown!

Of course, if I move my indoor antenna upstairs and out the 2nd floor window pointing at Parma, I can get WOIO-DT, but even that is not 100%.
post #362 of 1952
Man I would LOVE to be able to pick up the Steelers in HD from CBS but the Browns are always televised... You'd think I'd be able to pick up the Pittsburgh feed being I'm only about an hour away..
post #363 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by salemtubes View Post

Michael, thank you for the information. Some of us are fortunate in that we're able to pick up digital broadcasts from Cleveland, Youngstown, Pittsburgh and other locations; however, I am not able to receive the digital broadcasts of WKYC, WOIO and WTAE. I hope the coverage maps are available for the 2006 season.

I'm not surprised that you would have a problem with those stations. WTAE's digital signal is on rf 25, so WVIZ analog interferes. WOIO's digital is on rf 10, so Columbus' WBNS analog interferes for you ( and CFPL from London Ontario for those who live on the Lake Erie coastline ), and WKYC on rf 2 - take you pick - KDKA's analog for you or WJBK from Detroit for the far west siders.

You did not mention WJW-DT, so I presume you get the digital FOX 8. Couple that with WKBN's multicast and you will get most of the extra games in Salem.

Those coverage maps have been on the web for years. JPKibry has done an excellent job keeping them up!
post #364 of 1952
Yes, Michael, when WKYC started broadcasting their digital signal on channel 2, the local reception of KDKA deteriorated to the point that it was unwatchable. Even Time Warner's local cable signal was horrible. Local Steeler fans are not happy. Time Warner is now carrying KDKA's digital signal (rf 25) as part of the HD tier in their service areas in Columbiana County. WTAE's digital signal is on rf 51. I'm using a Channel Master 4228 antenna and 7777 amplifier with a rotator mounted on a 60 foot tower, and my home is on high ground at 1250 feet (www.topozone.com) above sea level. I receive KDKA's digital signal 100% of the time; however, when I swing the antenna toward the Parma antenna farm, WVIZ it is no longer watchable due to interference from KDKA-DT.

I'll have to replace my FM yagi antenna if I want to receive WOIO-DT. I knew WKYC-DT was hopeless when I put up the FM antenna, but I was hoping WOIO-DT would come in. Wrong! I can only get about a 56% signal on WOIO. I'm concerned about the wind load with the combination of the 4228 and a large deep fringe VHF antenna. I may end up going with a yagi designed for rf 10 and mount it on the side of the tower and keep the top of the tower the way it is.

Here are the digital signals I currently receive 100% of the time:

Akron-Cleveland-Canton: WEWS, WJW, WDLI, WQHS, WUAB & WEAO.

Youngstown: WFMJ, WKBN, WYTV & WNEO. WNEO's transmitter is located 3 miles west of Salem on U.S. 62.

Cambridge: WOUC. I'm glad I get this PBS station because it broadcasts in HD.

Stubenville: WTOV

Pittsburgh: KDKA, WPXI, WQED, WCWB & WPGH. I can get WTAE occasionally, but the conditions have to be just right. I'm surprised I receive WPGH as well as I do because their digital signal is broadcast on rf 43.
post #365 of 1952
Armstrong is still not transmitting the WKBN/WYFX HD feeds... which is very disappointing for those of us with HD Monitors without tuners. (I would love it if they add the channels before the "24" season finale.)
post #366 of 1952
Quote:


I'll have to replace my FM yagi antenna if I want to receive WOIO-DT.

You can't use an FM antenna to get either WOIO or WKYC! About the only TV channel an FM antenna is good for is rf 6.

An FM antenna's elements are too short for low band VHF and too long for high band VHF. TV ch 6 is just below the FM band. When I drove home from Maryland on the PA Turnpike I was able to llisten to WJAC's audio for a good portion of the Turnpike. Ch 6 analog's audio carrier is 87.75. Most digital tuner car radios go down to 87.7 or 87.9 so you can stioll hear ch 6 even though you are not exactly tuned to the frequency.

Get a real VHF only antenna and you should be able to have a crack at both WOIO and WKYC.
post #367 of 1952
Quote:


You can't use an FM antenna to get either WOIO or WKYC! About the only TV channel an FM antenna is good for is rf 6.

Au Contraire! While a yagi antenna cut for the FM band is not ideal for VHF television signals, it is capable of receiving 'em. I receive usable signals of the analog broadcasts of WKYC, WTAE, WEWS, WTRF (Wheeling), WJW, WTOV (Stubenville), WPIX ans WQED. I'm sure the 4228 is responsible for some of the VHF reception, too. CLICK HERE to read a review of the 4228 that contains the following text:

This antenna is advertised solely as a UHF antenna. But, as many people have discovered, it has strong gain for VHF-high, especially channel 9-13. What gives it this ability is the continuous screen. Other 8-bays have a reflector that is not continuous across the right and left halves. Those antennas have little usefulness for VHF channels.

Quote:


An FM antenna's elements are too short for low band VHF and too long for high band VHF. TV ch 6 is just below the FM band. When I drove home from Maryland on the PA Turnpike I was able to llisten to WJAC's audio for a good portion of the Turnpike. Ch 6 analog's audio carrier is 87.75. Most digital tuner car radios go down to 87.7 or 87.9 so you can stioll hear ch 6 even though you are not exactly tuned to the frequency.

When I had a McIntosh MR78 FM tuner, I could easily receive WJAC's audio when I pointed my antenna toward Pittsburgh. BTW, Salem is 60 miles from Pittsburgh and 60 miles from Cleveland. I'm about 110 miles from Johnstown as the crow flies. That was a fun tuner to DX with when tropo was active.

Quote:


Get a real VHF only antenna and you should be able to have a crack at both WOIO and WKYC.

Yes, that is why I stated I'm contemplating mounting a yagi designed specifically for channel 10 to the side of my tower. I still think WKYC-DT is a lost cause due to extensive electrical interference on channel 2 in conjunction with KDKA's analog broadcast. The lower VHF frequencies (54 MHz to 88 MHz) do a pretty good job of blowing in on the backside of directional antennas.
post #368 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmr0240 View Post

Armstrong is still not transmitting the WKBN/WYFX HD feeds... which is very disappointing for those of us with HD Monitors without tuners. (I would love it if they add the channels before the "24" season finale.)

I spoke with the Armstrong folks Wednesday (5/10) and they are working on it. I am sending a 41 megabit ASI stream to their Boardman headend that has two HD's and two SD's in it. They then transport that stream to their master digital headend in Zelienople, PA. where they split it apart to redistribute in the digital lineups to various headends. The process is extremely complex and is not simply "patching" a signal through to the next point. They assure me that they are anxious to get our HD programs on as soon as possible.
post #369 of 1952
Here in Parma, with an indoor Silver Sensor, I can now get a lock on WKBN-DT during the daytime. Previously it has to be in the evening before my 921 would lock in. Perhaps that huge low pressure system has something to do with this? The signal meter is still in the 66% range, which is usually not enough to lock. I still can't get a lock on WFMJ or WYTV, however those two fluctuate from 70% to down to near 0%, while WKBN stays constantly between 65 & 70% (with occasional peaks up to near 100%).

Once the weather gets better I'll put out an outdoor antenna and hope for the best.
post #370 of 1952
Quote:


I'm sure the 4228 is responsible for some of the VHF reception,...

I'm willing to bet the 4228 is responsible for ALL the VHF reception. Try using just the FM Yagi and see what you get. Since nobody is running a digital transmitter on ch 6 anywhere near here, I bet you will not get anything. On analog you might be able to squeek out ch 8 (and the occasional skip from WJAC), but that should be about all. I wonder what channel WJAC will be on after the transitition is over? That FM yagi may be good for WJAC if they chose to stay on 6.

BTW someone else will be digital on 6 someday, but you are probably too far to get it - Global TV in Canada, just across Lake Erie has a digital assignmnet on ch 6, they are ~66 miles from here.
post #371 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

Here in Parma, with an indoor Silver Sensor, I can now get a lock on WKBN-DT during the daytime. Previously it has to be in the evening before my 921 would lock in.

I'm getting a regular lock on WKBN-DT in the daytime, too, though I think it dated back to before this messy weather started.
post #372 of 1952
Quote:


I'm willing to bet the 4228 is responsible for ALL the VHF reception.

I doubt that the 4228 is responsible for all of the VHF reception. If you look at the graph at the bottom of the page I linked to, you'll see that the 4228 provides -31 dB of gain on rf 5, -29 dB of gain on rf 4 and -11 to +3 dB of gain on rf 8. I receive good analog signals on all of those channels. Ironically, the 4228 provides 6 dB of gain on rf 10, and I cannot receive WOIO-DT. My 4228 has a continuous screen (pink graph).

Quote:


Try using just the FM Yagi and see what you get.

No can do. Both the FM yagi and the 4228 are connected to their respective VHF and UHF inputs on the 7777 mast mounted amplifier. The connections are also sealed with Coax-Seal (www.coaxseal.com) and electrical tape, and I'm not gonna climb 60 feet up the tower to find out!
post #373 of 1952
Nice to see that Armstrong in Boardman now has WKBN and FOX in HD on ch. 104 and ch. 105. The program guide has not updated but I'm sure it will just be a matter of time. WKBN's picture looks great as does FOX. Just want to say,Thank You to Armstrong for carrying FOX-HD.
post #374 of 1952
Nice, Armstrong, nice! And as I mentioned earlier, just in time for the "24" finale next Monday.
post #375 of 1952
I am watching the Indians game on 27-2 right now (1:30 PM Sunday) and the picture is really washed out (excessively bright). Your main channel (27-1) looks fine. Is this a problem at the source (WKYC)?
post #376 of 1952
No, the satellite feed is fine. There was a problem with the internal routing of the signal but it has been corrected.
post #377 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by WKBN Chief View Post

No, the satellite feed is fine. There was a problem with the internal routing of the signal but it has been corrected.

Tom, thanks for the response. I was not able to watch the rest of the game, so I did not see the "fix".

BTW, I have no problem receiving WKBN-DT over here in North Canton. Keep up the good work!
post #378 of 1952
I just got in on the TVA PB pre-order for the Samsung HL-S6187 and can't wait to have the TV. Although, I'm going to be disappointed if I can't get the Steelers in HD OTA. I'm located in Campbell, OH and would really appreciate some advice on an antenna and any other accessories that'll help me get the Steelers in HD. Any other HD channels I can pick up along the way will be OK too.
post #379 of 1952
The only way you'll be sure to get the Steelers in HD is if you can pick up KDKA-DT out of Pittsburgh.

Local CBS affiliate WKBN-DT, while putting out a very powerful signal you can probably get with a coathanger in Campbell, I believe carries more Browns games than Steelers games.

I'll let some of the others talk about antennas and such. You'll likely need a decent outdoor antenna to get KDKA-DT and the other Pittsburgh stations.
post #380 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw5392 View Post

I just got in on the TVA PB pre-order for the Samsung HL-S6187 and can't wait to have the TV. Although, I'm going to be disappointed if I can't get the Steelers in HD OTA. I'm located in Campbell, OH and would really appreciate some advice on an antenna and any other accessories that'll help me get the Steelers in HD. Any other HD channels I can pick up along the way will be OK too.

I tell you my set-up, even though I am in New Wilmington, PA.

I live about 49-51 miles from the North Shore(North side of the city if you will) stations towers in Pittsburgh.

These stations are KDKA/CBS, WPXI/NBC, and WPGH/FOX.

I have an LG LST-4200A HDTV Tuner connected to BOTH(I have an A/B selector since this unit only has one RF input) an amplified indoor antenna(a cheap RCA model that you can get at a WalMart) and my local cable line(Adelphia, soon to be Time Warner for my area I believe while just a little south of me, I think it will be Comcast, but who the hell knows) for Clear QAM reception.

From my antenna, I get the following:

All the local Ytown stations in digital(including WNEO/PBS out of Alliance, OH which is about 31 miles from me). All come in strong(EXCEPT FOR WKBN/WYFX FOR SOME REASON. I GET ALOT OF DROPOUTS ON THAT ONE[STRONG THEN DEAD SIGNALS. FLUCTUATES GREATLY], AND I AM JUST AS CLOSE TO THE TOWERS AS WFMJ AND WYTV. WYTV USED TO BE A PROBLEM TOO WHEN THEY FIRST WENT UP, BUT IS NOW A STRONG STEADY SIGNAL. MAYBE WKBN NEEDS TO MAKE SOME FINAL TWEAKS/ADJUSTMENTS BEFORE SETTLING IN.)

Out of the Burgh, I get KDKA/CBS, WPXI/NBC, and WPGH/FOX. The last 2 I experience some fluctuation/dropouts occassionally on signal(Fox a little worse than NBC) but not horrible. If I hooked up an outdoor 8-Bay(or 4-Bay) UHF antenna, my results would be perfect. getting FOX out of the Burgh is may MAIN CONCERN(you'll see why in a moment) because SOME Steeler games(when the Steelers are at HOME playing an NFC team. At least 2 games a year) are on FOX/WPGH.



With my Clear QAM through Adelphia I get:

1. KDKA/CBS Burgh
2. WPXI/NBC Burgh
3. WTAE/ABC Burgh
4. National PBS feed(I think it is the national feed)
5. WFMJ/NBC YTown
6. CBWB/WB YTown(sub channel on WFMJ OTA. This one is digital only as well. No HD)
7. WYTV/ABC Ytown
8. Fox Sports Pittsburgh HD(this is OCCASIONALLY if the Pirates/Penguins game is being shown in HD.
9. Plus all the pointless music stations which I delete.

My local cable company(and other's it seems) is in some sort of SNIT with Sinclair owned local channels, and don't send their signal through in digital/HD on the their local digital/HD lineup. Unfortunately WPGH/Fox falls into this category as they are owned by Sinclair and refuse to carry the station which forces me to use an antenna. BASTARDS!!!!!

I don't know your topography(Is Campbell in a valley? Your Topography/surroundings play a big role in reception) but the best way to find out how far you are from the towers is go to:

www.antennaweb.org/

Type in your address and get an idea of how far you are from the towers in the Burgh. This will give you a good beginning step as to what type of antenna you are going to need.

Good Luck
post #381 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

I have an LG LST-4200A HDTV Tuner connected to BOTH(I have an A/B selector since this unit only has one RF input) an amplified indoor antenna(a cheap RCA model that you can get at a WalMart)

...All come in strong(EXCEPT FOR WKBN/WYFX FOR SOME REASON. I GET ALOT OF DROPOUTS ON THAT ONE[STRONG THEN DEAD SIGNALS. FLUCTUATES GREATLY], AND I AM JUST AS CLOSE TO THE TOWERS AS WFMJ AND WYTV. WYTV USED TO BE A PROBLEM TOO WHEN THEY FIRST WENT UP, BUT IS NOW A STRONG STEADY SIGNAL. MAYBE WKBN NEEDS TO MAKE SOME FINAL TWEAKS/ADJUSTMENTS BEFORE SETTLING IN.)...


WKBN is 3.5 times more powerful than me, and 14 times more powerful than WYTV. There's people in North Canton Ohio that get them with no problem, even unamplified. your preamp may be doing you in. Either it is overdriving the tuner or over amplifying multipath ghosts the LG can't receive. I've got one at home too. It's very sensitive and way less susceptible to ghosting. If you can, try bypassing the preamp or turning it down while watching WKBN. Try throwing the 10db pad in the coax line that came with the LG. you'll probably lose some of the weaker stations but it will be a good test to see if the preamp is an issue.
post #382 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by TV21CHIEF View Post

WKBN is 3.5 times more powerful than me, and 14 times more powerful than WYTV. There's people in North Canton Ohio that get them with no problem, even unamplified. your preamp may be doing you in. Either it is overdriving the tuner or over amplifying multipath ghosts the LG can't receive.

I have at least one indoor amplified antenna that overwhelms the strong local signals when the amplification is turned on. Another one does not have the problem.

I bet if he kills/turns off the amplification, he'll get WKBN-DT just fine. I'm still getting it over here in suburban Akron (west side). I can't wait till you guys go to full power, to see if I have a chance at getting 'FMJ...
post #383 of 1952
I think this might have been talked about in the local HD thread of Pittsburgh, but not here.

Last night(Sunday 5/28/06) after doing a channel scan(this is like at 1:00am since I was up) I was getting channels 27-5 and 27-6 on my STB.

They were both given names accordingly:

27-5: Eastern
27-6: Mountain

But, strangely, both were showing the WPGH/FOX feed in HD.

Also, the channel designation(UHF designation I mean) is channel 43 UHF(not 41, like it is for WKBN/WYFX digital) according to my LG Tuner.

They both were coming in rather strong(I haven't tried yet today, but I am going too after I sign off, and I will give you an update) and seem to be locally(at least to me here near New Wilmington/Pulaski, PA) generated.

I wonder if WKBN or WFMJ Chief know anything about this, and if it is permanent.

If it is, that would be GREAT, getting a FOX station(and the Steelers NFC games, when the Steelers are home of course, which is only twice for an NFC opponent, plus others in HD) would be awesome.

Something tells me it isn't, and is just a glitch on some sysytem that will be corrected.
post #384 of 1952
I'm not sure why it's resolving out to 27-5/6, but 43 is the digital channel of WPGH.
post #385 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

All the local Ytown stations in digital(including WNEO/PBS out of Alliance, OH which is about 31 miles from me).

WNEO's transmitter is actually located 10 miles east of Alliance and 3 miles west of Salem on U.S. route 62.
post #386 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

I think this might have been talked about in the local HD thread of Pittsburgh, but not here.

Last night(Sunday 5/28/06) after doing a channel scan(this is like at 1:00am since I was up) I was getting channels 27-5 and 27-6 on my STB.

They were both given names accordingly:

27-5: Eastern
27-6: Mountain

But, strangely, both were showing the WPGH/FOX feed in HD.

Also, the channel designation(UHF designation I mean) is channel 43 UHF(not 41, like it is for WKBN/WYFX digital) according to my LG Tuner.

They both were coming in rather strong(I haven't tried yet today, but I am going too after I sign off, and I will give you an update) and seem to be locally(at least to me here near New Wilmington/Pulaski, PA) generated.

I wonder if WKBN or WFMJ Chief know anything about this, and if it is permanent.

If it is, that would be GREAT, getting a FOX station(and the Steelers NFC games, when the Steelers are home of course, which is only twice for an NFC opponent, plus others in HD) would be awesome.

Something tells me it isn't, and is just a glitch on some sysytem that will be corrected.

I think WPGH needs to check their PSIP.
post #387 of 1952
It looks like WYTV/33 is joining the multicast game, adding "My Network TV" in the Fall:

http://www.business-journal.com/WYTVSecondNetwork.asp
post #388 of 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

I tell you my set-up, even though I am in New Wilmington, PA.

I live about 49-51 miles from the North Shore(North side of the city if you will) stations towers in Pittsburgh.

These stations are KDKA/CBS, WPXI/NBC, and WPGH/FOX.

I have an LG LST-4200A HDTV Tuner connected to BOTH(I have an A/B selector since this unit only has one RF input) an amplified indoor antenna(a cheap RCA model that you can get at a WalMart) and my local cable line(Adelphia, soon to be Time Warner for my area I believe while just a little south of me, I think it will be Comcast, but who the hell knows) for Clear QAM reception.

From my antenna, I get the following:

All the local Ytown stations in digital(including WNEO/PBS out of Alliance, OH which is about 31 miles from me). All come in strong(EXCEPT FOR WKBN/WYFX FOR SOME REASON. I GET ALOT OF DROPOUTS ON THAT ONE[STRONG THEN DEAD SIGNALS. FLUCTUATES GREATLY], AND I AM JUST AS CLOSE TO THE TOWERS AS WFMJ AND WYTV. WYTV USED TO BE A PROBLEM TOO WHEN THEY FIRST WENT UP, BUT IS NOW A STRONG STEADY SIGNAL. MAYBE WKBN NEEDS TO MAKE SOME FINAL TWEAKS/ADJUSTMENTS BEFORE SETTLING IN.)

Out of the Burgh, I get KDKA/CBS, WPXI/NBC, and WPGH/FOX. The last 2 I experience some fluctuation/dropouts occassionally on signal(Fox a little worse than NBC) but not horrible. If I hooked up an outdoor 8-Bay(or 4-Bay) UHF antenna, my results would be perfect. getting FOX out of the Burgh is may MAIN CONCERN(you'll see why in a moment) because SOME Steeler games(when the Steelers are at HOME playing an NFC team. At least 2 games a year) are on FOX/WPGH.



With my Clear QAM through Adelphia I get:

1. KDKA/CBS Burgh
2. WPXI/NBC Burgh
3. WTAE/ABC Burgh
4. National PBS feed(I think it is the national feed)
5. WFMJ/NBC YTown
6. CBWB/WB YTown(sub channel on WFMJ OTA. This one is digital only as well. No HD)
7. WYTV/ABC Ytown
8. Fox Sports Pittsburgh HD(this is OCCASIONALLY if the Pirates/Penguins game is being shown in HD.
9. Plus all the pointless music stations which I delete.

My local cable company(and other's it seems) is in some sort of SNIT with Sinclair owned local channels, and don't send their signal through in digital/HD on the their local digital/HD lineup. Unfortunately WPGH/Fox falls into this category as they are owned by Sinclair and refuse to carry the station which forces me to use an antenna. BASTARDS!!!!!

I don't know your topography(Is Campbell in a valley? Your Topography/surroundings play a big role in reception) but the best way to find out how far you are from the towers is go to:

Type in your address and get an idea of how far you are from the towers in the Burgh. This will give you a good beginning step as to what type of antenna you are going to need.

Good Luck

My stats do not seem too much different than yours. Lets see if you agree.... AntennaWeb shows that both WPGH and KDKA are 49 miles from my location. I checked out another website which said that Campbell's elevation was 1,100 ft above sea level. It seems that I'm going downhill when travelling anywhere from my location. I have a couple large trees in the back yard, but no other large neighboring objects.

AntennaWeb placed nearly all of the Pittsburgh channels in the blue category, which equaled a Medium Directional w/ pre-amp. If in New Wilmington you are able to pick them up with an indoor antenna, then should I go with something less?

I'd like to get the local Youngstown HD channels, which are all within a few miles, but then be able to pick up those two Pittsburgh channels for Steelers. In the end, I really don't care about anything else.

Given all that information, can anyone make a recommendation on what I should go with? I'm also reading in the HDTV Reception Hardware forum to try and make a decision myself, but the opinion of someone in this area with more experience than myself would really help.

Thanks
post #389 of 1952
One note for Y-Town folks trying to get WPGH-DT...it's on the same channel as Cleveland's analog WUAB (43). The closer you are to Cleveland, the less likely you'll be able to get a lock on WPGH-DT, even if you think you'd be able to get it distance-wise.
post #390 of 1952
27 Chief
Any idea why Directv still shows the NY feed schedule on thier guide. I get the KBN programming, just the schedule is wrong.
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