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Minneapolis, MN - OTA - Page 66

post #1951 of 2124
According to a post Friday on TivoCommunity:
Quote:
Originally Posted by utcompeng
Hey Guys, I'm happy to report the tuner is a million times better than the premier. No more issues with high signal channels interfering with low signal channels. I was able to remove a splitter I was using to downgrade my signal. The tuner is just as good as my Samsung TV...enjoy!!

Agree. The signal meter seems to be re calibrated though - Roamio shows a lower signal strength than the Premiere, even though the signal appears stronger.

From another user:
My Roamio Basic was able to get all the main Charlotte stations, transmitters roughly 60 miles away, before it stopped working (less than 24 hours after I received it)

Previously, I could only get one station from that city on both a Premiere & TivoHD.

There are other responses after regarding the poster's issue with the "Not working" part. :-)
post #1952 of 2124
I’m hearing good things on Roamio’s tuner too, but I still would like to hear from somebody who’s using it in our area.

The tuners in TiVo were getting worst with each new model release. My S3 has a better tuner than the TiVo HD which is better than the Premiere. But I’m reading good things about the Roamio so they’ve must have picked a better tuner.

The one problem I’m hearing on Roamio’s OTA performance is that it sometimes gets a black/blank screen on some of the four tuners. It seems to be a software problem that also plaques the other 4 tuner models. So I'm not too sure what to make about that.
post #1953 of 2124
The number of tuners in the Roamio doesn't excite me too much - as the times I've had 4 channels OTA that all had something on I wanted to record are ... well ... I guess I never remember that happening.

The part of the Roamio that does interest me, though, is the beefier Broadcom chip that should make handling streaming apps smoother - as well as the speedier transfer times of downloads to the Tivo using Tivo Desktop, in my case.
post #1954 of 2124
Greetings!

OK. I hate being the newb that has only one post and replies to a thread that may or may not have been already discussed... but having said that here's my situation.

I am trying to use an attic mounted antenna to get the channels from Minneapolis (shoreview as I have read) and I live in St. Cloud.

I am using a clearstream 4 and can get all of the UHF stations using a RCA preamp (the $25 one from amazon) and I have some old, but high quality rg-59 cable run from the attic into the main splitter in my house (obviously done quite some time ago and not by me). It's not rg59u garbage, I have seen the inside of the junk rg-59 and this is much better. The splitter is an amplified splitter, but Charter installed it so I don't know how high the quality is and I don't think it adds any gain, but I don't think it loses any either (as there should be -3.5db loss each connection, right?).

I cannot for the life of me get 9.1 or 11.1 & 11.2 (the high VHF channels). But I can get every other channel (I think I get 30 or so) and the quality is great so I know I'm pointed in the right direction.

So last week I decided to buy a clearstream 5 (made for high band VHF) and even when by itself I can get almost every UHF channel but still none of the VHF channels. So then I bought a channel master 7777 'Titan 2' to see if that would help. Also tried to use the CS5 for VHF only and the CS4 for UHF. Nope. No luck. I have also cut and replaced both of the ends of the rg-59 cable from the attic with compression fittings using tools I got at Home Depot (it's actually very easy to do) to eliminate any potential signal loss from the old crimp fittings that were there (don't know if it actually helped).

I'm at my wits end here and it's so frustrating that I can get everything else, but I will miss most of the football games in HD (I do get 9.2 - bleh) and will miss all of the sunday night games on NBC.

Other things worth noting is that I get nothing at all without the preamp even holding any antenna out of the top story window (I pop out the screen to test where I need to aim in the attic). I haven't tried to walk up on the roof to see if I can get 9.1 or 11.1 yet.

The only thing I haven't tried yet is adding a signal booster (in place of the current main splitter). Would adding a signal booster help at all? Or is roof mounting my only option for getting those two channels? Unfortunately my wife won't allow me to do a roof install as her grandma had lightning hit her antenna and even though it was grounded properly she lost everything electronic in her house (guess it was just a strong bolt lol).

Thanks in advance for any an all advise.
post #1955 of 2124
So, is there any way to get that antenna mounted outside or is that simply not an option?
post #1956 of 2124
Nah the wife won't let me rolleyes.gif She's paranoid that we'll get a fatal lightning bolt to all of our electronics. I'm up for it though tongue.gif

But just now (figures) I can get everything crystal clear! With just the CS5 and the RCA preamp! I'm like, what the heck!? Is all ota reception better at night or something? I usually am trying to get this going during the day as the attic entrance is in the kid's room and I don't/can't be poking in the attic when they sleep.

So saying that, is there a way to get better reception during the day (other than roof mounting)?
post #1957 of 2124
Probably due to killer tropo the last couple of days. The propagation map at http://aprs.mountainlake.k12.mn.us/ is lit up. I have been getting Madison, Wausau, Milwaukee, Green Bay and even Marquette down here in Rochester..
post #1958 of 2124
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachmn View Post

Probably due to killer tropo the last couple of days. The propagation map at http://aprs.mountainlake.k12.mn.us/ is lit up. I have been getting Madison, Wausau, Milwaukee, Green Bay and even Marquette down here in Rochester..

So basically it's a fluke that I was able to get all those channels last night? As of today I have only 9.2 and 41.1-41.5 and 9.2 is not fully coming in. I am going to try a signal booster in the house to see if that will help...

Would a different antenna help me out any (still just as an attic antenna)?
post #1959 of 2124
I added a signal booster to help negate the loss from the terrible rg-59u run throughout the house. This helps, but as of right now with the CS5 and the RCA preamp I can't get anything below 7.1 (2.1, 4.1, or 5.1) and everything 7.1 and above is only ok - there's some pixelation every minute or two - but not bad enough to lose any channel. I will check again later at night to see if things improve.
post #1960 of 2124
St Cloud is 60+ miles away from the MSP towers in Shoreview. The odds of reliable attic reception that far away are negligible unless you are blessed with an extremely fortunately location, like on top of a hill with a perfect shot back toward the Twin Cities. Otherwise, by the time the sgnals finally reach your roof, it simply doesn't have enough energy left to reliably penetrate the roof and impress a strong enough signal on the antenna.

Night time is often the easiest time for weak signal reception (not necessarily tropo scattering or ducting) due the background noise level dropping which allows the signal to noise ratio to improve enough for reception.

Your best bet is to convince the wife that reception will require a roof mount, otherwise, it's back to cable or satellite.

Make certain that the pre-amp is installed AT THE ANTENNAS, not somewhere downstream.

Quote:
attic entrance is in the kid's room and I don't/can't be poking in the attic when they sleep.

Throw the rugrats in bed with Mom for the night, tell her you'll sleep on the couch when you get done, then play with the system while they are all asleep.
Edited by ProjectSHO89 - 8/31/13 at 4:22am
post #1961 of 2124
Two things I'll suggest, for what it's worth...

Have you tried using a non-amplified splitter rather than an amplified one? For various reasons, amplified splitters can be more problematic than helpful, and in this case I wouldn't assume an amplified splitter is even needed since the one you have was originally installed to improve the cable signal coming into the house. The splitter should be installed past the power inserter for the preamp.

Is there an FM trap built into the RCA preamp (and "turned on"), or a standalone FM trap somewhere in the wiring? FM radio signals can interfere with reception of VHF TV signals on an amplified antenna, especially if you have FM radio stations with transmitters closer than the transmitters for the VHF TV stations you are interested in receiving. This is the case in the St. Cloud area, where, in particular, KCML/99.9 is in place and broadcasting from a tower almost right smack dab in the middle of town. The second harmonic of 99.9 MHz is within the bandwidth of channel 11 and could cause interference with KARE. Additionally, depending on where in the St. Cloud area you are, KMXK/94.9 may present a problem, since the second harmonic of 94.9 MHz is within the bandwidth of channel 9, KMSP. So, in short, using an FM trap in this case could be beneficial.
post #1962 of 2124
Yup, it's a fluke. Same reason that 41.1-41.5 sometimes bombs in down here then rest of the time nothing. If they ever move to Shoreview I should get it all the time.

Be aware that 2.1 KTCA is UHF 34, 4.1 WCCO is UHF 32, 5.1, 5.7 KSTP is UHF 35 and 5.2-5.6 KSTC is UHF 45. If 7.1 is KCCO then that is VHF 7. (Which has popped in and out during this tropo event.)

How much room do you have in your attic? Have you tried an "old fashioned" UHF Yagi antenna?

I am currently using the UHF Yagi remnant of my Delhi VU-936SR + VU-8PZ Power Zoom after the antenna snapped in half in the November before the Packers started their Super Bowl run (grrr).

Even though it is the UHF section of the original antenna I have no trouble with KARE (VHF 11), KTTC (VHF 10), KMSP (VHF 9) and WKBT (VHF 8). 77 miles and 2Edge according to TvFool. KEYC (Mankato VHF 12) frequently. Then when Tropo is popping WSAW (Wausau VHF 7), WAOW (Rhinelander VHF 9), KWWL (Waterloo VHF 7) and WNMU (Marquette VHF 13) have briefly come in.

I posted a picture of the remnant Yagi on Page 107 of the Rochester, MN - HDTV thread.
post #1963 of 2124
Quote:
Originally Posted by agus0103 View Post

Two things I'll suggest, for what it's worth...

Have you tried using a non-amplified splitter rather than an amplified one? For various reasons, amplified splitters can be more problematic than helpful, and in this case I wouldn't assume an amplified splitter is even needed since the one you have was originally installed to improve the cable signal coming into the house. The splitter should be installed past the power inserter for the preamp.

Is there an FM trap built into the RCA preamp (and "turned on"), or a standalone FM trap somewhere in the wiring? FM radio signals can interfere with reception of VHF TV signals on an amplified antenna, especially if you have FM radio stations with transmitters closer than the transmitters for the VHF TV stations you are interested in receiving. This is the case in the St. Cloud area, where, in particular, KCML/99.9 is in place and broadcasting from a tower almost right smack dab in the middle of town. The second harmonic of 99.9 MHz is within the bandwidth of channel 11 and could cause interference with KARE. Additionally, depending on where in the St. Cloud area you are, KMXK/94.9 may present a problem, since the second harmonic of 94.9 MHz is within the bandwidth of channel 9, KMSP. So, in short, using an FM trap in this case could be beneficial.


Thanks. Unfortunately when charter came out to put in the powered splitter/amplifier they took the old one with them (don't know why they did that...). So I will need to go out and get a high quality non amplified splitter. Yeah, and I found out that the fm trap needed to be on right away. Good info, thanks again.

Actually I have a good 2 way splitter and it would seem that I am having good results with this splitter. I need at least a 4 way for where I have tv's in my house. Looks like a trip to radioshack is in order (or wherever I can find a good splitter).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tachmn View Post

Yup, it's a fluke. Same reason that 41.1-41.5 sometimes bombs in down here then rest of the time nothing. If they ever move to Shoreview I should get it all the time.

Be aware that 2.1 KTCA is UHF 34, 4.1 WCCO is UHF 32, 5.1, 5.7 KSTP is UHF 35 and 5.2-5.6 KSTC is UHF 45. If 7.1 is KCCO then that is VHF 7. (Which has popped in and out during this tropo event.)

How much room do you have in your attic? Have you tried an "old fashioned" UHF Yagi antenna?

I am currently using the UHF Yagi remnant of my Delhi VU-936SR + VU-8PZ Power Zoom after the antenna snapped in half in the November before the Packers started their Super Bowl run (grrr).

Even though it is the UHF section of the original antenna I have no trouble with KARE (VHF 11), KTTC (VHF 10), KMSP (VHF 9) and WKBT (VHF 8). 77 miles and 2Edge according to TvFool. KEYC (Mankato VHF 12) frequently. Then when Tropo is popping WSAW (Wausau VHF 7), WAOW (Rhinelander VHF 9), KWWL (Waterloo VHF 7) and WNMU (Marquette VHF 13) have briefly come in.

I posted a picture of the remnant Yagi on Page 107 of the Rochester, MN - HDTV thread.

I don't think that kind of antenna would fit in the 2' x 2' opening in the attic, and if it did, I have about 2.5 to 3 feet from the top of the insulation to the top (roof) in the attic. The clearstream 5 is only marginally larger than the 4 and was much more difficult to get it in and required me to have to improvise a bit to get it on the j mount.

Funny, it's again night time (8pm) and I can get every station very clearly now.
post #1964 of 2124
Quote:
Originally Posted by anactoraaron View Post

I don't think that kind of antenna would fit in the 2' x 2' opening in the attic, and if it did, I have about 2.5 to 3 feet from the top of the insulation to the top (roof) in the attic. The clearstream 5 is only marginally larger than the 4 and was much more difficult to get it in and required me to have to improvise a bit to get it on the j mount.
Some like the AntennasDirect 91XG, which comes in sections. The individual sections might fit through the hole then be assembled in the attic.

I have the big old Channelmaster FM antenna in the garage attic. To make it easier to get around up there, I laid down 2 foot wide plywood and made my own creeper so I can scoot back and forth. I managed to get everything through the ladder-less opening (2 foot wide). I mounted/hung the antenna to a roof joist so I can scoot underneath it if needed. I have a little more height than you, but not enough to stand.

If there is a roof joist right above the 2x2 hole that could be a mounting point without needing to climb entirely into the attic itself.
Quote:
Funny, it's again night time (8pm) and I can get every station very clearly now.
Tropo is good again tonight.
post #1965 of 2124
There is a joist about a foot away towards the center of the house - I would say it's a little bit east of the center of the attic (about 40% in from the long end I would say - mounted in the center from the short end)- that's where the antenna is mounted. There's so much insulation (about a foot deep) that I don't know where it's safe to walk. I get the feeling if I climb in there completely my foot will crash through to the hallway below. I would get some plywood to lay down, but there's just not enough of an opening to fit some through to lay down - and I just don't want to spend an afternoon pulling up a bunch of 1.5' x 1.5' squares to lay down in the attic to be able to crawl around in there...

Today or tomorrow I will get some help from a buddy to see if there's a more optimal spot to put the antenna in the attic (it may need to be further away from the end it's pointing or closer), or if the only option is outside or on the roof.
post #1966 of 2124
Have you looked at the reception maps for stations at RabbitEars? Looking at those - they would suggest you're looking at an outside antenna. Unless other people in St Cloud have success with attic-mount?
post #1967 of 2124
After about an hour of crawling in my attic looking for a better reception, my wife decided to leave for a few hours. While she was gone, my buddy and I decided to take this project outside. We mounted it on the side of the house but had to stop when the storm rolled in. Its up, but no ground was run. Going to run the ground tomorrow morning and get silicone put where it needs it around the mount.

I went from 30 channels when the atmosphere was just right to 43 channels.

The wife may get mad, but I can deal with that. I can't live without football though tongue.gif

Thanks again to everyone for the help and knowledge.
post #1968 of 2124
One channel I didn't recognize was fox 21.1. Tvfool says its 130 miles away. smile.gif
post #1969 of 2124
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KQDS-TV
Looks to originate from Duluth and seems to have similar programming as our My29.1 channel, even though it's a FOX channel.
post #1970 of 2124
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KQDS-TV
Looks to originate from Duluth and seems to have similar programming as our My29.1 channel, even though it's a FOX channel.

syndicated shows and paid programs take up most of the day.....Fox network at night

he wouldnt be missing much...even if he picked it up wink.gif
post #1971 of 2124
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post

he wouldnt be missing much...even if he picked it up wink.gif
biggrin.gif I so agree but I know a few others feel differently tongue.gif
post #1972 of 2124
living formerly in Duluth they are a rinky dink operation....Red River sticks money into the radio stations they own...the TV not so much
my buddy gets KVRR Fox Fargo (same owner) and there is more paid programs on during the day than actual programs

The only extra programming (ie: unique) that they were good for was the Packers pre-season games smile.gif
post #1973 of 2124
KQDS does news pretty well, though, these days - they can usually hold their own with market-leader WDIO in terms of quality. They also must be doing well enough in terms of viewers, since they just launched a 7 AM newscast, a first for the Duluth-Superior market.
post #1974 of 2124
Quote:
Originally Posted by agus0103 View Post

KQDS does news pretty well
is it still not in HD or at least widescreen?
Quote:
They also must be doing well enough in terms of viewers, since they just launched a 7 AM newscast, a first for the Duluth-Superior market.
considering the other 3 networks have national programming at 7 it wouldn't be that hard wink.gif
post #1975 of 2124
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post

is it still not in HD or at least widescreen?

It's still 4:3 SD. Though it doesn't have any HD competition anyway, as the local news on WDIO and Northland's NewsCenter (KBJR and KDLH) is in widescreen SD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post

considering the other 3 networks have national programming at 7 it wouldn't be that hard wink.gif

But there are 5 other commercial networks in the market, taking into account MyNetworkTV on 6.2 and The CW on 3.2. If they wanted to, Northland's NewsCenter could be using one of these to air local news at 7 AM, similar to how KSTC provides a continuation of KSTP's news once Good Morning America starts.

Edit: I will say this; I can't believe how they manage to run a TV station that outputs local news from such a miniscule building. I understand KVRR in Fargo handles all non-local master control, relieving KQDS of needing the space (and satellite array) for that, but still:


View Larger Map
Edited by agus0103 - 9/1/13 at 10:40pm
post #1976 of 2124
What's weird is that the antenna is on the east facing side of the house pointed SE to about 124 degrees from north. TV fool says that 21.1 is at 49 degrees. I also can get a 10.1 (NBC) almost perfectly but I can't find a match from TVfool unless the report is wrong. I was able to watch Saturday Night Live from both 10.1 and 11.1 the other night. TVfool only has a 10.1 PBS station and a 10.1 ABC in my report.
Strange.
post #1977 of 2124
It was probably W50DR-D, since I'm not sure how TVFool lists it.

- Trip
post #1978 of 2124
Quote:
Originally Posted by anactoraaron View Post

I also can get a 10.1 (NBC) almost perfectly but I can't find a match from TVfool unless the report is wrong. I was able to watch Saturday Night Live from both 10.1 and 11.1 the other night. TVfool only has a 10.1 PBS station and a 10.1 ABC in my report.
Strange.

What is the RF channel? KTTC down here in Rochester is the NBC affiliate on VHF 10. If I can get KARE on VHF 11 down here, certainly possible you could be picking up KTTC. 10.2 is the CW in HD.

W50DR-D is a translator of KTTC to provide NBC coverage in the La Crosse area. It is on UHF 50 obviously. I have better luck picking up WISC (UHF 50) from Madison than it. According to the RabbitEars contour map http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1338300 it is only 15kW for power.

As for placating the Mrs., once she starts watching programs she couldn't get before her opposition should lessen.

You could also use Joe Soucheray's 48 hour rule. smile.gif ( http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=toolt&th=331088 )
post #1979 of 2124
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachmn View Post

What is the RF channel? KTTC down here in Rochester is the NBC affiliate on VHF 10. If I can get KARE on VHF 11 down here, certainly possible you could be picking up KTTC. 10.2 is the CW in HD.

W50DR-D is a translator of KTTC to provide NBC coverage in the La Crosse area. It is on UHF 50 obviously. I have better luck picking up WISC (UHF 50) from Madison than it. According to the RabbitEars contour map http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1338300 it is only 15kW for power.

As for placating the Mrs., once she starts watching programs she couldn't get before her opposition should lessen.

You could also use Joe Soucheray's 48 hour rule. smile.gif ( http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=toolt&th=331088 )

It is VHF 10 as 10.2 is a CW channel. Must be that one. Funny how that CW didn't have the same programming on as the other CW channel- 23.1. Not at the time I checked it anyway.

And with the wife's "Oh we have had _____ for some time now" when I discover her expenditures there's no need for any 48 hour rule lol. She's accepted what I have done lol.
post #1980 of 2124
Quote:
Originally Posted by anactoraaron View Post

It is VHF 10 as 10.2 is a CW channel. Must be that one. Funny how that CW didn't have the same programming on as the other CW channel- 23.1. Not at the time I checked it anyway.
It seems there is a full time CW feed for stations to use. KTTC 10.2 and WXOW 19.2 (UHF 48) use it, programming on those two stations are identical.

23.1 appears to provide prime-time CW programming but then sources its own programming the rest of the time. Its CW programming has been in 16:9 HD from early on whereas 10.2 and 19.2 switched to 16:9 HD from 4:3 SD recently.
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