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Tulsa, OK - HDTV

post #1 of 892
Thread Starter 
A round-up of HDTV offerings in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Over-The-Air(OTA)

ABC-KTUL-DT-8.1,8.2,8.3...720p..DD5.1
NBC-KJRH-DT-2.1,2.2,2.3..1080i..DD5.1
CBS-KOTV-DT-6.1,6.2..........1080i.. DD2.0
FOX-KOKI-DT-23.1...........720p..DD5.1
PBS-KOED-DT-11.0, sometimes it's four SD subs, depends on the night..........1080i..DD5.1
UPN-KTFO-DT-41.1...........1080i..DD?

For example, if you tune in KTUL by puching in 10.1, it will revert back to the original analog station call number of 8. Don't let this confuse you. Likewise, you can tune in KOTV by either puching in 55(digital call number) or 06(analog call number).

There are other digital stations available OTA, but none do HD, so they get no place at the table.

COX Cable HDTV in Tulsa

Here's a list of the COX Cable HD channels in Tulsa. I'm also including the locals they offer in HDTV(see edit below)

Here is the new HD lineup for Cox cable in Tulsa, courtesy of user Jimbo Moran.

KOKI HD (FOX) 715
KOTV HD (CBS) 716
KTUL HD (ABC) 718
KJRH HD (NBC) 719
OETA HD (PBS) 713

ESPN HD 720

ESPN2 HD 721

Discovery HD 725

NATGHD 726

A&E HD 727

History HD 728

TNT-HD 729

Universal HD 730

TBS HD 731

iNHD 1 735

MHD 739

Cox HD1 740

HBO HD 750

Showtime HD 755

Starz! HD 760




For more info on receiving HDTV OTA in Tulsa: www.antennaweb.org

For Tulsa HDTV programing info and news: www.hdtvok.com

And obviously, if you want Direct-TV or Dish Network, these are also viable HDTV options in Tulsa.

If there are any mistakes, or info not included, just let me know.
post #2 of 892
I have a MyHD MDP120 HD Tuner card, and although I am receiving adequate signal strength for KOTV in Tulsa, the card does not display an image for this station. All other HD\\DTV stations seem to work fine, but KOTV is dead in the water. I have read in another thread another user posting the same problem, but there were no solutions or answers.

Anyone here have any clues why KOTV in Tulsa does not display on a MyHD card?

TIA
post #3 of 892
I live on the north side of Owasso, North of Tulsa. I am looking at purchasing an internal antenna to attempt to pick up over the air HD signals from Tulsa. I am looking into the Terk TV-55 antenna to facilitate this. Can anyone provide me with their experiences and hopefully successes on receiving the over the air signals. Will I have a problem being in Owasso?

Thanks for the assitance!
post #4 of 892
post #5 of 892
In reply to:
"I have a MyHD MDP120 HD Tuner card, and although I am receiving adequate signal strength for KOTV in Tulsa, the card does not display an image for this station. All other HD\\DTV stations seem to work fine, but KOTV is dead in the water. I have read in another thread another user posting the same problem, but there were no solutions or answers.

Anyone here have any clues why KOTV in Tulsa does not display on a MyHD card?

To schud

I have had the same problem with the MyHD card and KOTV. I have been working on solving this problem. (Actually all credit goes to Cliff Watson).
Seems that we are waiting for gweaver@kotv.com to fix this. Please feel free to call or email him. Here are the details provided by Cliff (and Jeff at KOKI). I have been posting this on hdtvok.com for us Okies!!
Per Cliff

"Mr. Weaver,



Jeff Stuart from KOKI/KTFO provide a sample TS of your station to determine why some computer HDTV tuner card users were not able to properly decode your TS. Below are my findings based on the stream provided.



Best Regards, Cliff



----- Original Message -----

From: Cliff Watson

To: Stuart, Jeff

Cc: Gary

Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 4:51 PM

Subject: Re: Email Error

Jeff,

I guess Concast lied about my mail box having a 250 meg limit. Looks like it is still a 5 meg limit per email.



Anyway I've found some problems with the KOTV TS stream and I believe I know why the MyHD receiver/decoder can't render your stream.



Notice in the attach image that your stream actually has 3 PMTs. I have no idea what the "network" PMT is used for because I've never seen it in any other streams.



Look at the break down of the bit-rates from each PID and you will see that 0x0011 has a bit rate of 24.12 kbps meaning that progran 1 in the PAT/PMT tables does not have any video packets and I'm guessing that PID 0x0014 has no audio encoded either.



Program 2 from the tables does have the audio and video packets (based on bit rate) and is likely why you had to change PIDs to 0x0021 and 0x0024 on the scope. You also have a large amount (~6.5 Mpbs) of NUL packets (0x1fff) in the stream which is a waste of band width and reduces the video quality for HD.



A TS decoder can use one of two methods, 1) Use PAT/PMT tables to locate A/V PIDs or 2) Use the VCT from the PSIP. Notice that this TS only has a VCT for program 2 and none for program 1. Under this condition a STB receiver/decoder using VCT would default to reading program 2 where the actual content is located.



A receiver/decoder based on PAT/PMT would attempt to read the first program which in this case has no content explaining why the MyHD displays a blank screen and no audio. All receivers based on the Janus decoder chip would have the same problem with your stream.



Question: Are you attempting to broadcast two sub-channels from your station? Even if you are I would recommend that you move the primary HD sub channel to program 1 and additional sub channel to program 2.



Hope this helps you get the TS corrected.



Best Regards, Cliff"

Gary
post #6 of 892
Please see this thread:

http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthrea...hreadid=455563

New driver and app. I have already loaded it, tested it, and KOTV now works. Please be aware that KOTV comes up as 6-1 and 6-2.. There is a black screen on 6-1 but programming can be found on 6-2. It may not be the most convenient but at least we have CBS back. I have tried some test HD captures and it all works fine.. I just have to remember to set my reservation up on 6-2.

Regards,
Steve
post #7 of 892
Quote:
Originally posted by skoone1
Please see this thread:

http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthrea...hreadid=455563

New driver and app. I have already loaded it, tested it, and KOTV now works. Please be aware that KOTV comes up as 6-1 and 6-2.. There is a black screen on 6-1 but programming can be found on 6-2. It may not be the most convenient but at least we have CBS back. I have tried some test HD captures and it all works fine.. I just have to remember to set my reservation up on 6-2.

Regards,
Steve

Kewl! I'll try it out and advise!
post #8 of 892
Thanks skoone1!

I can confirm skoone1's comments. With the new MyHD released linked above, I can now receive KOTV's DTV signal on 55-2. I had to auto rescan to find the 55-2 channel. The software also does not read the PSID information correctly (I think that's where the virtual channel ID information is found) so MyHD does not know this is KOTV, and does not know it's virtual chanel 6.

It sure seems to me that KOTV has some things screwed up with their DTV TS stream!

However, I'm glad there's a workaround now!

Gary,

I think Don Dobbs is the Director of Engineering at KOTV. I plan to call him, then send the station manager a letter requesting they correct their defective TS. I agree that if enough of us complain, they may finally be interested in fixing their problem.
post #9 of 892
David --

I developed the KOTV reception problem as far back as late July. There is something that they did on their end that caused this. Prior to late July, I never had a problem decoding KO's digital signal. I contacted Don in early August by telephone, after two weeks of black level.. I initially thought that they might have had some equipment to go bad and were waiting on replacement parts. To my surprise, there never was anything "wrong" and that's when I got to wondering what really was up with this. I explained to Don what I was using and that reception was great up until a certain point in July. He was generally unhelpful, acted as if he really didn't want to have to deal with this. He wasn't ugly or anything like that, but I think more effort could have been put forth on his part to recognize that there was indeed an issue in his transmission system that needed to be looked at.

Also note that I own a DTC-100 STB.. It too is showing the black level on 55-1 , however, I have always been able to change to 55-2 on it and see KO's programming whereas the MyHD could not.. So it's not just MyHD that is detecting this issue.

Well, whatever needs to be done to get their attention on this matter, let's do it.

Regards,
Steve
post #10 of 892
I finally got 2 emails from the engineering staff at KOTV. Both Gerald Weaver
(gweaver@kotv.com) and droot@kotv.com said that they will look into the problem. Gerald mentioned that they may have to swap 6-1 and 6-2.
Keep the emails going to these guys!!
post #11 of 892
OK, I finally got off my butt and emailed the station too. I also copied station manager Regina Moon rmoon@kotv.com.

The following is my email:

Mr. Dobbs:

I emailed the station several weeks ago via the KOTV.com website (HDTV and Satellite inquiries link) regarding problems I am experiencing using a MyHD MDP120 PC based HDTV receiver card. This HDTV receiver card is installed in a custom built multi-media PC, which is driving a $20,000.00 105MHZ bandwidth Ampro 3300 CRT projector, in my dedicated home theater media room. Needless to say, the image quality of this setup is nothing less than spectacular.

Beginning about two or maybe three months ago, I was no longer able to receive KOTV-HD signals via the MyHD card. I receive every other DTV station in the Tulsa market (at least the stations that I care to receive) without any difficulties. I can receive and lock into the KOTV signal, but the picture displays a black screen on 6-1, with no picture. No other DTV station in this market presents the issues that the KOTV signal presents. To reiterate, no other station presents the incompatibility issues with this card that KOTV does.

Further investigation into the nature of this issue on the websites http://www.hdtvok.org/ and the AVS forum http://www.avsforum.com/ has revealed many other Tulsans are experiencing the same KOTV reception issues as well. It turns out that this problem is found not only with the MyHD card, but with RCA and other set top box products as well.

Curiously, it appears to me that previous requests, from other station viewers for help from station engineering, was largely ignored. Specifically, the request to capture and transmit a clip of KOTV's transport stream (TS), for the purpose of allowing a technical representative of the MyHD card's manufacturer was never acknowledged. Thankfully, one of your fellow station engineers at KOKI was kind enough to help out and capture and transmit the TS needed to perform the diagnosis and evaluation of your signal and format.

The following is an excerpt of an email I have found on the AVSForum website, which was posted by another Tulsa viewer, which discusses the TS evaluation provided by Cliff Watson of Digital Connection (the major US distributor of this HDTV card), regarding your TS format problems:

"Anyway I've found some problems with the KOTV TS stream and I believe I know why the MyHD receiver/decoder can't render your stream.

Notice in the attach image that your stream actually has 3 PMTs. I have no idea what the "network" PMT is used for because I've never seen it in any other streams.

Look at the break down of the bit-rates from each PID and you will see that 0x0011 has a bit rate of 24.12 kbps meaning that progran 1 in the PAT/PMT tables does not have any video packets and I'm guessing that PID 0x0014 has no audio encoded either.

Program 2 from the tables does have the audio and video packets (based on bit rate) and is likely why you had to change PIDs to 0x0021 and 0x0024 on the scope. You also have a large amount (~6.5 Mpbs) of NUL packets (0x1fff) in the stream which is a waste of band width and reduces the video quality for HD.

A TS decoder can use one of two methods, 1) Use PAT/PMT tables to locate A/V PIDs or 2) Use the VCT from the PSIP. Notice that this TS only has a VCT for program 2 and none for program 1. Under this condition a STB receiver/decoder using VCT would default to reading program 2 where the actual content is located.

A receiver/decoder based on PAT/PMT would attempt to read the first program which in this case has no content explaining why the MyHD displays a blank screen and no audio. All receivers based on the Janus decoder chip would have the same problem with your stream.

Question: Are you attempting to broadcast two sub-channels from your station? Even if you are I would recommend that you move the primary HD sub channel to program 1 and additional sub channel to program 2."

It is my understanding that KOTV has not acknowledged and has still not provided any resolution to this issue. While I readily admit that I am not a broadcast engineer, I must conclude that your DTV signal is not being broadcasting in its proper format.

Can you please acknowledge my request for assistance, and let me know of your plan to correct this problem? I would think that you would want as many "happy viewers" in the market as possible. At this point, I am very disappointed by KOTV and my perceived lack of response to this troublesome problem.

I would appreciate your prompt response and resolution to this most frustrating issue.

Best Regards,
post #12 of 892
Just had mine installed yesterday afternoon. Although I had become impatient waiting for the unit to be released in Tulsa it was worth the wait. The dual tuner feature is wonderful. Last night I recorded LAX and Lost while watching a previously recorded episode of Stargate and everything worked as promised.

I was unhappy being required to pay the $49.95 installation fee when I could have done it myself but I was unwillling to wait till they allow self-installation. Being a pioneer has it's price.

Any other Tulsans planning on adding the DVR to their system soon?
post #13 of 892
Thread Starter 
Good to hear Jimbo.

I'd like to add a DVR, but my girlfriend has instituted a temporary moratorium on electronics purchases. Congrats, and I hope you enjoy!!
post #14 of 892
So I got an HDTV and a D* sat box (DTC-210) and put up a tripod and a 4ft mast on my roof at 19th and Riverside (19mi from most stations according to antennaweb). I have a building maybe 30yrds from my house blocking my direct line of site to where the stations should be, but aiming my 58 UHF/VHF monster towards Wagoner (109deg) I got the following results.

ABC-KTUL-DT-10.1-10.2...perfect
NBC-KJRH-DT-56.1-56.2..perfect
CBS-KOTV-DT-55.1..........perfect
FOX-KOKI-DT-23.1...........50-50 chance
PBS-KOED-DT-38.1..........none
UPN-KTFO-DT-41.1...........none

I was a bit frustrated by this since I got a larger antenna than was recommended by Antennaweb and TitanTV that I thought would make up for the building blockage.

So at this point at the recommendation of some, I installed a variable attenuator from Radioshack which did nothing but knock out some channels when I turned it up.

My next step was to add a foot to my mast and replace a piece of RG59 cable with better RG6 cable. This killed Fox 23.1 now I was never getting Fox, and I gained PBS 38.1 perfect all the time it broadcast.

Very frustrated now I got a small 13db preamp from Radioshack (thinking my 100ft of cable may be the problem) and once installed I lost all my channels.

Next I figured it may be the diplexer that the D* installer had on my cable I removed them and went antenna only with the little amp and still nothing.

Next even getting more frustrated (with some input from the web), I ran a separate exclusive RG6 run from the cable box where my diplexer had been. After dragging my new cable through the wall to the sat box and plugging it directly into the antenna going up to the antenna, I sealed everything up and searched for channels again. This time I lost ABC! I'm going backwards here!

I was very frustrated last night that I was going to miss the Pokes playing SMU on UPN so I hooked up a UHF loop antenna to the old piece of RG59, stuck it in my window, and got it perfect at 80%.

My last try today I just hooked up a Channel Master 7777 (which I was hoping the FM trap and lower noise would help) which killed all my channels. I took it back off and now am here.

ABC-KTUL-DT-10.1-10.2...none
NBC-KJRH-DT-56.1-56.2..perfect
CBS-KOTV-DT-55.1..........perfect
FOX-KOKI-DT-23.1...........none
PBS-KOED-DT-38.1..........perfect
UPN-KTFO-DT-41.1...........perfect (if I use a loop in the window)
I am very frustrated! I can't think of too many more things to try. I may buy a 50ft cable and run it straight from the antenna to the TV through a window just to double check my connections.

I find it particularly vexing that a discarded crappy cable and a UHF loop which I have had for years but did not even know what the hell it was (till recently) can pickup any station better than my monstrosity on the roof.

Any input from the experts here would be helpful.
post #15 of 892
Does anybody know if COX is planning on adding any new HD channels in the Tulsa market. I emailed the question:

Can you tell me if COX is going to add any new HD channels soon?
Here is what they said:
Thank you for your inquiry. Cox is committed to providing the best
customer service possible. Cox is continually exploring new HD
offerings and is working to provide the most robust HD lineup possible.

So they could have just said no, we can't tell you.

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but I didn't know where this should belong
post #16 of 892
-The best answer to your question is that Cox has not yet announced any additional stations for Cox in Tulsa. (or in OKC either).
-At least we are not in OKC's situation, where Cox and Sinclair are in a negotion-stalemate, so that FOX is not carried. (so no Super Bowl).
-My guess is that ESPN2 would be the first added, as it has been widely speculated that the last Cox- ESPN contract dispute covered this, and thus the carriage price would not have to be separately negotiated.
-After that, we have two locals with limited HD that have not been added to Cox yet, KOED-DT (PBS) and KTFO-DT (UPN). KOED-DT is adding facilities which are supposed to be completed by July, which should lead to expanded HD. Hope Cox adds at that time or before. (Look at OETA thread on hdtvok.com site for more information). UPN only has a few HD programs, so I don't think it will be on Cox soon. Local digital WB is not even built yet.
- As to nationals, as said by poster above, Cox in other (limited) markets carries Universal-HD, Starz-HD and Cinemax-HD. But, not in vast majority of Cox systems.
-Whatever our desires, it would seem clear that Cox is much more interested in using availble system resources to add new digital phone service customers, rather than adding HD channels.
post #17 of 892
Thread Starter 
I updated the original post to reflect changes such as PBS being remapped to channel 11. If there are any mistakes guys, make sure and post them.
post #18 of 892
I noticed yesterday that i have via cox cable (not digital) the following local HD channels:
80-13 abc

KOKI
KTUL
KJRH

Those three last channels are after channel 116 which is some kind of signal strength monitor but before channel 2 the guide channel.
I don't know what channel numbers they are because my mits 52725 only shows the call letters and program info not channel number.

Thought this was enteresting.
post #19 of 892
I talked to OETA this morning and all of the OETA DTV stations are now running at full power. They have also expanded the hours that they are on the air. All of the OETA DTV stations broadcast from 6AM - Midnight (same as their analog hours) 7 days a week. They pass through whatever PBS sends them whether it is one HD channel or 4 SD channels; OETA has no control over this and they cannot insert their own local programming yet. They are also still in a test mode so they cannot publish a guide. I know some of you see guide data in your DirecTV guides for OETA stations but that is Tribune Media Services creating this one their own; it is not coming from OETA.

It looks like new Master Controls will be finished in June, so it looks like OETA DTV channels could appear on Cox cable systems as early as July but don't hold your breath.
post #20 of 892
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info Kevin.

I've noticed that we've been getting the four SD channels more often than we used to lately. Maybe it's just my imagination. This last Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday were all four SD sub nights in Tulsa.
post #21 of 892
Wanted to poke my head in here and say that I'm currently getting the Cox HD DVR. I'm loving it.

One of these days us Tulsans should get together. I'm trying to eventually form a page to start with so PM here if you want. I know I've talked to Jimbo and Woodrow.

Was a little dissapointed that ABC didn't have their HD working last Wednesday. Someone posted that KTUL wasn't in HD ota so I assume that is the reason why I'm not getting HD that night either.

I wonder if CBS ever plans to offer DD 5.1.
post #22 of 892
Thread Starter 
As far as I know, our local CBS is capable of DD5.1 The problem is CBS rarely does DD5.1. Anyone confirm?

BTW guys, there's some info at HDTVOK about our local ABC-KTUL making some changes. Might want to check it out.
post #23 of 892
Thread Starter 
KTUL
8-1 HD programming
8-2 Radar
8-3 SD programming (NTSC simulcast)

Info courtesy of HDTVOK.com
post #24 of 892
KOTV in Tulsa and KWTV in OKC cannot pass through Dolby Digital 5.1 yet. They do not have the equipment.
post #25 of 892
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by HiDefSooner
KOTV in Tulsa and KWTV in OKC cannot pass through Dolby Digital 5.1 yet. They do not have the equipment.

Thanks Kevin. I'll edit the first post.
post #26 of 892
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Shane Martin
Wanted to poke my head in here and say that I'm currently getting the Cox HD DVR. I'm loving it.

One of these days us Tulsans should get together. I'm trying to eventually form a page to start with so PM here if you want. I know I've talked to Jimbo and Woodrow.

Was a little dissapointed that ABC didn't have their HD working last Wednesday. Someone posted that KTUL wasn't in HD ota so I assume that is the reason why I'm not getting HD that night either.

I wonder if CBS ever plans to offer DD 5.1.

I'm in for the Tulsa meet.

If you guys notice Tulsans posting somewhere make sure and PM them and let them know about this thread and the meet. I'll do the same.
post #27 of 892
I talked to the ABC engineer via Email about some of the issues as of late on ABC. Hopefully he'll whip them into shape.

Issues I've noticed:

Minority Report last Saturday dropped HD after the first commercial. It was back on later.

ALias not in HD but in HD in other markets. Obviously a screwup based on the Minority Report issue.

I also heard that abc dropped out of HD last night during our the blind cop drama.
post #28 of 892
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Shane Martin
I talked to the ABC engineer via Email about some of the issues as of late on ABC. Hopefully he'll whip them into shape.

Issues I've noticed:

Minority Report last Saturday dropped HD after the first commercial. It was back on later.

ALias not in HD but in HD in other markets. Obviously a screwup based on the Minority Report issue.

I also heard that abc dropped out of HD last night during our the blind cop drama.

I don't know what the deal has been lately. Did he elaborate on what the issue has been, Shane?

I can confirm though that we missed out on most of Minority Report.

Maybe I should drop KTUL engineering a line as well. Maybe they aren't getting enough complaints. I used to do it all the time, but nowadays I just seem to turn the channel when KTUL is not in HD.
post #29 of 892
He was very responsive and pretty much put the whole ordeal on the master control and they are going to switch out some equipment there.

He also mentioned a satellite decoder issue for Alias.

Right now I'm watching Lost and it looks lovely in HD via Cox.

I've got the guy's email so if you want it. Send me a PM.
post #30 of 892
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info Shane. I agree about the engineer for KTUL. He's first class. A little over a year ago I noticed a very slight jitter to the KTUL picture. He said he'd check it out that night and let me know. Well, he actually called ME from his home that evening and let me know he saw the jitter and was on the case. Great guy for sure. The jitter is just a bad memory now.
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