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Denon 3910 Owners Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 7503
IRE 0 and "normal" black is what most people are using for settings. Is there a "black level" option on the Sony? Using 7.5 is fine as long as the TV is calibrated to "black" being 7.5.

larry
post #242 of 7503
No, there's no black level option on the Sony. I believe the "normal" only applies to DVI, not component (it certainly doesn't alter the picture in component...).

I've been using the 7.5 IRE setting, but my cable HD STB looks too dark when the TV is calibrated for the 3910's 7.5 IRE setting... The HD STB looks right when calibrated to the levels with the DVD in 0 IRE, but I'm afraid I'm crushing blacks on DVDs then...

So, if everyone's using 0 IRE, I assume nobody except me has a problem w/ the 3910 passing BTB signals in 0 IRE??

UMR, the undisputed king of the Sony GWII, suggests my 3910's levels must not be set correctly if the player doesn't pass pluge in the 0 IRE configuration.
post #243 of 7503
Jon G

I have black level at 0 and HDMI/DVI mode normal and Pluge is passed just fine.

Are you saying that even if you raise the brightness that you arent seeing the BTB bar?
post #244 of 7503
Yeah, no matter how high the brightness is raised, I can't see the BTB bar if the 3910 is at 0 IRE.

Wonder what's up here. Do you think I should try exchanging my 3910 for another?
post #245 of 7503
Well, I just went back and double checked. With the DVI output and the player set to 0 IRE/Normal black level, I get "some" of the THX BTB drop shadow. I definately don't get as much BTB as if I'm in 7.5 IRE; I can just barely make out the drop shadow, no matter how high the brightness is turned up on the Sony. Also, I can make out all 7 ramp bars on the top of the THX logo over DVI. So, over DVI, I'm able to keep the unit in 0 IRE and lower the brightness until the drop shadow completely disappears.

Furthermore, the "THX" seems to "lighten" or "darken" more via DVI (0/normal again). Over component, the THX is distinguishable, but never really "pops" out like it does via DVI.

I guess I'll stick w/ the DVI/480p setting until I can exchange the 3910.
post #246 of 7503
I'll quit posting the same info in two threads...

Here's a link to the "Upscaling DVD players and the GWIII" post with some photos of what I'm seeing...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...08#post4477308
post #247 of 7503
Quote:
Originally posted by placidman
Greetings,

The HS10's DVI input is HDCP compliant. I would not have bought the projector had it not been for this very reason. To my knowledge there is no difference between your version and mine in this regard.
Regards,

Thanks a lot for your fast reply !
This is very good news for me. Stupidly, I believed that the HS10 does not support HDCP as this expression is not mentioned even once on neither technical data sheets from Sony nor the user manual.
So, I'm looking forward to digitally connect my future 3910 to my HS10
post #248 of 7503
Greetings,


Your right. The only reason I knew it was HDCP compliant was that every review I ever read on the unit, plus the original press release, stated that it was. At any rate, you will have to post back when you have your 3910/HS10 combo up and running.


Regards,
post #249 of 7503
I replaced the DVI/DVI cable with an HDMI to DVI connector to my Sony GW3XBR and it looks great. The firmware fix will not affect this connection, right? I understand that it only fixes the DVD/DVI y/c delay.
Also, is AUTO 1 still the best to use?
Thanks!
Elbert
post #250 of 7503
Elbert,
It's been reported that using HDMI to DVI from the 3910 (as opposed to DVI to DVI) causes improper clipping of Blacker than Black data. As I understand it, the firmware fix is supposed to fix that problem as well.

"Auto 1" film/video processing mode should work fine for you, regardless of the cabling you choose.
--Bob
post #251 of 7503
Can you run HDMI out to DVI in? If yes, will HDMI handle 45 feet of run and where can I get an adaptor?
post #252 of 7503
Yes, you can run HDMI out to DVI in. It is done quite commonly these days. The Denon 3910 reportedly has the HDMI/DVI Blacker than Black bug when doing that, however -- NOTE: firmware fix on the way.

That bug aside, HDMI is, by design, backward compatible with DVI. An HDMI/DVI adapter cable or adapter plug literally just switches wires around to the right pins for the different style plug -- there is no active processing going on in the cable or adapter plug. When the source and destination connect, a handshake is performed that tells the HDMI source the display wants to be thought of as DVI. The source then locks into the DVI standard. [HDCP -- copy protection -- compliance is checked at the same time.] The same happens in reverse if you hook a DVI source to an HDMI display.

Keep in mind that DVI does *NOT* include audio signals. So if you want audio to get there as well you will need to run separate audio from the source to the display.

If both source and destination are discovered to be HDMI during this handshake, then there are ALTERNATE standards available which provide higher bit depth and YCbCr format vs. RGB format for the video. The handshake then goes on to select the best bandwidth/format supported at both ends. This is for future expansion since commonly available displays today that include HDMI input don't yet take advantage of any of this -- they use only the DVI standards albeit via the HDMI plug.

The HDMI transmitter and receiver circuits mandated by the HDMI standard have additional electronic equalization which allows for error free connections over longer cables than with DVI to DVI. Presumably that also makes the HDMI circuits a bit more expensive. There is no intended difference in the cables however. You just have to get the right plug at each end.

As far as I can tell, it is *NOT* safe to assume you'll get any advantage of this if you cable HDMI out to DVI in or vice versa. As usual with cabling limits, the specific characteristics of the chips in your particular source and display, cable construction, and sources of interference will all play a role in how long the cable can be before you start to see problems. There may easily be variations within different manufacturing runs of a given model from any vendor, although all will meet a minimum level of compliance with the standard.

As I understand it, DVI cable lengths up to only roughly 10 feet are guaranteed to be safe, but many people have successfully used longer cables, and cable companies will cheerfully sell you longer cables. That is, there's enough safety factor in the standard and in how manufacturers have implemented it to give you a pretty good shot that longer cables will work.

Companies like Gefen sell DVI repeater boxes which pass through a regenerated signal for folks having problems. Make sure you get a box that's intended for Home Theater use (i.e., it passes through HDCP compliance from the display) as opposed to boxes designed for connecting computers to their displays. The Gefen and Dtronics DVI switcher boxes also regenerate the signal. Thus you can use a maximum length cable on either side of them. That is, they act as a repeater as well as a switcher.

----------------------------------------------------

A number of Forum Sponsors here sell HDMI/DVI cables and adapter plugs. You might want to check the Power Buys forum for any deals currently available.

I believe even Monster Cable offers such cables through places like Best Buy.

Be aware that the markup on cables is enormous. Before shopping, be sure to learn the Home Theater enthusiasts pledge: Open your wallet and repeat after me, "Help Yourself!"
--Bob
post #253 of 7503
Quote:
Originally posted by placidman
At any rate, you will have to post back when you have your 3910/HS10 combo up and running.

Sure I will. Will take another 2 months at least, I think. 3910 not yet out here (delayed to mid Nov) and first want to check out if PQ is really much better than my current setup, also for my maybe not-so-specially-videophile eyes.
Have currently an old, simple Panny A160 player over S-VHS on my HS10 ... I know, in theory the difference should be huge ... but I want to see with my own eyes first before spending that much money
post #254 of 7503
Bob Pariseau:
Thanks for the info. I am presently running 46 feet using a DVI cable through a repeater. Works great most of the time however gets jumpy at 1080 on some DVD's, but is good all around at 720. My Bravo D1 (POS) died and I have just ordered a 3910. Obviously I have an investment in the repeater (isx hundred yollars) and DVI cable so I don't want to throw it away, but if I can use HDMI to DVI and get 1080 without the jumpiness, I will gladly do it.

Andy
post #255 of 7503
I personally have found that 720p is most optimal for my display. I also have been tweaking for a week now and will tweak more once I get my y/c firmware disc from DENON tomorrow. But now I have found myself liking Enhance HDMI/DVI, 0.0 IRE with chroma level at around 4-5, and contrast at 3-4, brightness at 2-4, and I am now using a DVI to DVI m500 Monster cable. I have now been noticing NO difference between using dvi/dvi or HDMI to DVI. Before the HDMI to DVI was looking a little better, but now after many hours of tweaking I have the DVI looking as good or better. I know they are suppose to be exactly the same, but I still think it depends on everyone's display. The firmware disc may even (should) offer a little bit more of an improvement with my picture (atleast where the Y/C delay is important). I put the movie Cat in te Hat in for my nephews and nieces today and the picture with the vivid colors was quite spectacular. It is getting closer to my D-VHS movies! All of this tweaking really does payoff sometimes....
post #256 of 7503
Quote:
Originally posted by joerodcowboys
I also have been tweaking for a week now and will tweak more once I get my y/c firmware disc from DENON tomorrow.

Can I ask the best way to obtain this firmware from Denon? And does it fix/correct anything else?
post #257 of 7503
I actually emailed DENON then they emailed me back (sameday) asking me for my address. I then called them to make sure they got it then I was given an engineer. He went over the procedure with me, asked me a few questions about my setup, then said it would help boost better color with dvi, and fix the y/c delay that newer manufactured models have had. My unit was manufactured in JUNE. Hope this helps...
post #258 of 7503
I currently have an HTPC setup, and I was considering to replace with the DVD-3910. How does it compare? Anyone else in the same boat?
post #259 of 7503
timeslip,
I´m on the excact same boat. I´m getting a HTPC this week, and I´m wondering if a 3910 or Pio 59avi would be worth it.

And comparing the two DVD players the Denon has the Denon link which would be great for me, but it has macroblocking(especially with 1080i) and no interlaced HDMI. I´d like to know how much better 1080i looks than 720p on a 1080p display. I remember theBland prefered 1080i, but by how much?
No interlaced HDMI and 1080i with MB, makes the 3910 very 1080p unfriendly doesn´t it?
post #260 of 7503
Does anyone use the 3910 with the screenplay 5700, or other screenplay projectors....any macroblocking visible at 576p/480p?

Thanks,
George
post #261 of 7503
Quote:


...makes the 3910 very 1080p unfriendly doesn´t it? [/b]

I'm curious about this too as my new DLP is going to be 1080p (sometime next year)

- D
post #262 of 7503
Quote:


Originally posted by timeslip
I currently have an HTPC setup, and I was considering to replace with the DVD-3910. How does it compare? Anyone else in the same boat?

I was using a fairly nice HTPC (TheaterTek) upscaling to a 1:1 pixel panel and the 3910's image was easily superior using 1080i. I didn't do a whole lot of A/Bing but guessing I would think the Denon's 720p image is pretty close to the HTPC's image quality. Typically, I don't use all of the image adjusters within the HTPC though Denon offers quite a few of its own... including V and H Enhancers along with user defined Gammas.
post #263 of 7503
Quote:


Originally posted by joerodcowboys
I actually emailed DENON then they emailed me back (sameday) asking me for my address. I then called them to make sure they got it then I was given an engineer. He went over the procedure with me, asked me a few questions about my setup, then said it would help boost better color with dvi, and fix the y/c delay that newer manufactured models have had. My unit was manufactured in JUNE. Hope this helps...

Whoa! Who did you email? They never responded to me!! I need the YC fix too - it's REALLY annoying on a 126" screen.

-Jonathan
post #264 of 7503
Email technical department, from the USA DENON page. They will respond back...
post #265 of 7503
Charles,
I thought the MB was worst in 1080i?
post #266 of 7503
Quote:


Originally posted by joerodcowboys
Email technical department, from the USA DENON page. They will respond back...

Thanks. I may have emailed the wrong dept. doh.
post #267 of 7503
Quote:


Originally posted by jonapod
Whoa! Who did you email? They never responded to me!! I need the YC fix too - it's REALLY annoying on a 126" screen.

-Jonathan

I just called them toll free (1-800-497-8921; responses after their prompts: 2, then 1, then 2) last Friday AM. I had to leave a voice message, but they called me back that afternoon and promised to mail me my firmware update today (Monday).
post #268 of 7503
It is worst in 1080i. Almost nonexistent in 720P. When it is calibrated right you shouldn;t see a thing...
post #269 of 7503
I hate you guys.
I returned a 5900 I had for a few weeks to get a 3910 which I won't have for another week or two. The sound was beautiful on that thing.
post #270 of 7503
The sound is not that much different on the 3910...The Pic Q is STELLAR to say the least!!!
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