Denon 3910 Owners Thread - Page 109

Hi Ralph, That sounds right but where I am confused is when reading the 3805/5900 set up .pdf

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdf...tup%20tips.pdf

Where it says to set all speakers to large in step 3. But I take it that it might apply to Denon Link vs. SACD playback?

Cheers

I would not set the speaker size arbitrarily to small when using the analog outs. If you have 5 full range speakers, which is the optimum for MCh playback, then you would want to set it to large. Or, if you are using an outboard crossover such as the ICBM you would set it to large and have the ICBM do the crossing over over individual speakers.

Most folks do not have 5 full rangers so setting to small would be prudent for them.

Depending on equipment I would try it both ways and find which sounds best.

During SACD playback the speaker setting are overridden anyway and everything is set to large.

Can someone tell me why speakers that do not reproduce 20Hz - 20KHz are commonly thought of as "large"? To me, 20-20k response is the only "full range" (large) there is. If you speakers benefit from a subwoofer, then they are not full range. Not many of us can afford real "large" speakers.

Seeking enlightenment,

Jeff

I would call that full range, 20-20, but keep in mind that there is very, very little audio output for music past maybe 50Hz. I would suggest that if your speakers are flat out to around 50Hz or so they could be deemed full range. Others would argue differently....

A SW will have the most value when used with movie soundtrack playback, of course, there is probably some electronic music that moves a fair amount of low frequency air...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you are saying is that if you set your speakers to "Small" for Multi Channel playback, then this setting only applies to DVD Audio when using the analog outs (i.e. the crossover setting has no effect for SACD)? If so that's news to me.

Bass management is applied to SACD within the 3910, though the unit has to convert the signal from the native DSD format to PCM to do so. If you are a hardcore SACD purist, this may not be for you, but I'm sure the difference in sound quality is minimal. The need to convert the signal is the reason you did not have bass management for SACD until recently. Denon basically did a workaround, to um, make it work.

When used in conjunction with Denon Link the 3910/5900 will switch to Source-Direct when an SACD signal is sensed and send the output to the analog outputs. All other signals are automatically sent over Denon Link. When in Source-Direct mode all speaker setting are bypassed.

When used without Denon Link the settings remain valid as far as I know, although for SACD playback you can either have level and delay or BM, but not both. Which would mean the same I believe for DVD-A playback. This is why I personally use an ICBM, I can have delay and level set by the player and still have, albeit analog, BM on SACD material.

To be honest I have not delved into this in awhile but I believe the above to be correct.

When in Source Direct mode playing an SACD, are the speaker level and distance settings ignored as well? That is, does the 3910 do speaker level/distance adjustments when in Source Direct mode for SACD's?

Yes.

So what do you have to do to playback SACD in its native DSD format? Is that even possible?

Have full range speakers equal distant from your listening position hooked up to amps via analog connections, (so that way no downconversion needs to happen for Bass Managment and volume levels setting, audio delays etc.)
OR
Get an iLink compatable pre/pro (probably the best bet, nice and easy as well)

HDMI may soon support direct DSD transfer as well in the near future, we'll see.

If you turn SOURCE DIRECT ON, SACD's will be kept in their native DSD format.

With source direct ON, when playing DVD-Audio discs are the speaker level and distance settings also ignored? (Assuming you are using the analog 5.1 outs that is).

Yep,
as far as my understanding goes, SOURCE DIRECT is exactly that. It plays it directly as recorded on the disc.

That is why, if you use that setting for DVD-A and SACD, you'd preferably want full range speakers, all at the same levels/distances. Because that is what the original source was recorded for.

The only 'work around' you may have (for those without iLink), all depends on the pre/pre amp you have.

Some people, can set their 3910 to SOURCE DIRECT ON, so the signal is not being altered in anyway at the DVD player, and you will get the full resolution audio (all channels will be full frequency range, same levels, no BM, etc.)
These signals will then be sent to the pre/pro/amps Multi Channel Input via analog connections.

Now SOME pre/pro/amps have the ability to process the signal that comes in via the Multi Channel Input. So you get the unaltered signal into the amp and then IT does all the level settings, distances and BM etc. (NOTE: Make sure you check the pre/pro specs though, because alot of the ones that allow you to 'process' the Multi Channel Input, do the same thing as the DVD player does, they downconvert the signal (DSD etc.) to an 'easy to handle' PCM signal)
However, most general pre/pro/amps can't do this anyway, they will play whatever comes in via the Multi Channel input as they get it, so you'll still be in the same situation.

But generally, i think you will be hard pressed to hear the difference between having Source Direct On or Off.
SO i wouldn't worry about it too much IMO

Cheers
KJ

Thanks for the info guys.

I am looking at the Outlaw 990 and the Anthem AVM30 but neither have iLink or HDMI. Don't want to spend + $4000 on a Lexicon and want balanced outputs to boot.

Not too picky, eh?

Not true. Distance & level STILL work when Source Direct is engaged, for any surround format!

This is from page 38 of the 3910 manual:

SOURCE DIRECT:

This permits a setting to output the audio without adding speaker settings or channel level processing to the audio signals of DVD-A and SACD.

My bad. I was wrong about the levels, but it definitely still works for the delay (when they say speaker settings, they mean small vs. large).

Larry: I beg to differ. I think channel level is easier to allow than the speaker distance; so if channel level is disabled in Source Direct, very likely speaker distance too is disabled. Besides, speaker distance compensation without channel level tweakability during Source Direct defies logic for its usefullness in my view.

Like Simply Orange orange juice, Source Direct is "simply unfooled around with." That's why it's called Source Direct. He**, even adding a volume control to the circuit probably adulterates the signal a wee bit.

Just to make sure I have this right:

If I DON'T use Source Direct for SACD the 3910 will convert the signal to PCM and the settings I have selected in the 3910 for crossover, level, and distance all remain intact for SACD right? This is via the 5.1 analog connections.

These settings are all valid for DVD-A regardless of whether or not I use Source Direct on the analog connections, correct?

Source Direct ON will bypass all speaker settings/bass management for all sources at analog connection. In other words, all speakers are now LARGE and subwoofer is YES for LFE purpose only (and not for bass-redirection).

Keep us posted on your final decision. I'm looking at the AVM30 as well.

Not to get to far off topic but have you looked at the Rotel 1098 to match with your 3910?

I'm using a 1066 with my 3910 and it is quite something, what a piece of hardware this player is, it really took audio and video to the next level.

SC

John, I prefer using balanced outputs to my 4 amps. I already ordered the cables for them at Cobalt.

The AVM30 is a great sounding piece of equipment. Just that the Outlaw has sparked my attention a bit.

I just got a call from Tweeter where I bought it and they said they have a package with my name and address on it that was delivered to their store!

They ripped off the paper where I had the FedEx envelope covering the Tweeter barcode and UPS scanned the wrong barcode!

I am leaving now to get it. I never got an email notification either, but it only took a week.

I need a beer

When sending equipment around the country, or the world for that matter, I ALWAYS pack the original box inside of another shipping box. May cost a little more, but to me it's worth it....

Dont drink and drive. www.budweiser.com

LOL, I waited until I got home.

So what's the verdict, jazzcat? BTB? What firmware did you send it in with?