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Denon 3910 Owners Thread - Page 198

post #5911 of 7479
4/12/06 at 11:07pm
Sadly, I have the experience of having bought a 3910 sometime back and have just discovered that the Below Black issue is unique to my build date (Sep 04). Based on the thread, sounds like I have to send it in to be 'fixed". My real question is, does Below black matter or is it simply available to insure proper display calibration?

Would I actually "see" a difference if the unit was passing below black?

Thanks for any and all guidance.
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post #5912 of 7479
4/13/06 at 12:09am
Me too, I just discovered that my 3910 is made in 9/04 and is supposed to have some kind of a black-to-blacker problem. How bad is that. I bought it in Dec/05 and have been watching movies since without noticing any major quality issues. The only thing is that it doesn't play all CD-R or DVD-R as advertised which I heard is a common with this model. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #5913 of 7479
4/13/06 at 5:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chall87 View Post

I'm auditioning both a Denon 2910 and 3910. I have been having difficulty getting either of these units along with my ARCAM AVP700 to play multi-channel 5.1 sound. All I get out of either player with my processor is 2 channel sound. I have the Denon wired up to the ARCAM using the 5.1 analog output. I setup the Denon with the SACD setup to be in multi-channel mode. One interesting note is that on the Denon 3910 the super audio and blue disk illuminated but only the Left and Right speakers illuminated whereas on the 2910 when I tried that unit I got all 5 speakers plus the LFE channel to illuminate on the Denon display. I'm assuming that the display indicates which channels are being driven. Confused as to why 3910 would not have displayed all speakers. Could it be defective?? With neither setup am I getting any multi-channel sound. Any ideas?

Greetings,

Make sure that you press the SACD setup button on the front panel and that you set it to Multi mode. If it is set to Stereo mode it will only play the stereo tracks from multi channel SACDs. The point regarding stereo only SACD's is a good one and you should make sure that when you are playing a disc that you knowwhich it is.

You don't mention DVD Audio so I will assume that yuo have not tried any yet.

Regards,
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post #5914 of 7479
4/13/06 at 6:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivoniko View Post

Me too, I just discovered that my 3910 is made in 9/04 and is supposed to have some kind of a black-to-blacker problem. How bad is that. I bought it in Dec/05 and have been watching movies since without noticing any major quality issues. The only thing is that it doesn't play all CD-R or DVD-R as advertised which I heard is a common with this model. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

First of all, use THX Optimizer, present on many DVDs such as Star Wars, to see whether your specific unit does pass BTB or not (don't assume anything based on the build date). If it does not pass BTB, then only you can decide whether you like the PQ or not. Worst case: you may be losing some detail in dark scenes.
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post #5915 of 7479
4/13/06 at 9:46am
BillP,

If one calibrates so that he doesn't see BTB bars (keeps black level at zero), how would he still be missing detail? I guess it depends when the BTB "cutoff" is at. If it happens just above black (or zero) then that can be a problem? Is this how you understand it? Just curious.
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post #5916 of 7479
4/13/06 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

BillP,

If one calibrates so that he doesn't see BTB bars (keeps black level at zero), how would he still be missing detail? I guess it depends when the BTB "cutoff" is at. If it happens just above black (or zero) then that can be a problem? Is this how you understand it? Just curious.

Well, that's a good question and I'm sure someone will step up with the technical reasons. For me though, I just accept that to be correct my DVD player must pass below black. I drank the Kool-Aid.
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post #5917 of 7479
4/13/06 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

BillP,

If one calibrates so that he doesn't see BTB bars (keeps black level at zero), how would he still be missing detail? I guess it depends when the BTB "cutoff" is at. If it happens just above black (or zero) then that can be a problem? Is this how you understand it? Just curious.

Sorry, but I am certainly no expert on this (I'll let someone else answer). THX is a good way to see whether your unit CAN pass BTB, although AVIA and DVE are more accurate for actually adjusting the contrast and brightness settings. Those adjustments, though, should be made on the display, not the player, with the player set to 0 IRE and Normal black level (for the 3910).
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post #5918 of 7479
4/13/06 at 10:54am
How I understand it is that BTB is for black level (brightness) calibration. It gives you a proper reference point for setting your display's black level. Actual NTSC video does not contain below black, so you are not missing anything. In fact, the black bars in AVIA are designed specifically to set proper brightness even if your DVD payer does not pass BTB.

Scott
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post #5919 of 7479
4/13/06 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottd327 View Post

How I understand it is that BTB is for black level (brightness) calibration. It gives you a proper reference point for setting your display's black level. Actual NTSC video does not contain below black, so you are not missing anything.

Isn't the THX Optimizer done in NTSC?
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post #5920 of 7479
4/13/06 at 11:34am
Folks,

Just Got the money back this week. I´ve sent back my 3910 for the store and want my money back. This Model, as 5900, and 3800, have a serious problem to read some CDs (recognize), bad laser unit. And it isn´t a problem with some, it occurs in ALL 3910. I´ve tested my CDs that it wasn´t recognizing in others 3910, and occurs the SAME. So i will neVermore buy a Denon (don´t believe that a brand new spending unit could have this serious problems) now i am thinking to get a Marantz 9600, that folks haven´t problem with laser unit.
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post #5921 of 7479
4/13/06 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro1985 View Post

Folks,

Just Got the money back this week. I´ve sent back my 3910 for the store and want my money back. This Model, as 5900, and 3800, have a serious problem to read some CDs (recognize), bad laser unit. And it isn´t a problem with some, it occurs in ALL 3910. I´ve tested my CDs that it wasn´t recognizing in others 3910, and occurs the SAME. So i will neVermore buy a Denon (don´t believe that a brand new spending unit could have this serious problems) now i am thinking to get a Marantz 9600, that folks haven´t problem with laser unit.

You should return the CDs and demand a refund from the manufacturer for not making them compatible with the Denon.
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post #5922 of 7479
4/13/06 at 5:49pm
BillP,

Why can't some adjustments be made on the player (unless there is a certain flaw with the player's settings)?

Sorry, I don't mean to be singling you out. Just interesting stuff here.
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post #5923 of 7479
4/13/06 at 6:14pm
David, everyone seems to recommend that you make the adjustments on the display, and then just fine tune with additional adjustments on the player if needed.
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post #5924 of 7479
4/13/06 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

David, everyone seems to recommend that you make the adjustments on the display, and then just fine tune with additional adjustments on the player if needed.

Done correctly with the display's setup controls, no "additional adjustments" will be necessary.
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post #5925 of 7479
4/13/06 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Done correctly with the display's setup controls, no "additional adjustments" will be necessary.

Agreed, for most of my viewing (at night). I did make a custom setting on the player just for rare daytime movie viewing.
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post #5926 of 7479
4/13/06 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

Agreed, for most of my viewing (at night). I did make a custom setting on the player just for rare daytime movie viewing.

I haven't the foggiest idea why DVD players even have picture controls. Are there displays that do not?
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post #5927 of 7479
4/13/06 at 7:40pm
One reason I can think of for player picture controls is the situation where the player and other sources share the same TV input. For example, a cable box and player routed through a reciever with a single out to the TV. In that scenario, the tv's picture controls could be optimized for the cable box, and then any additional adjustment necessary to optimize the picture for the player could be made with the player's controls.

Do I win something?
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post #5928 of 7479
4/13/06 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I haven't the foggiest idea why DVD players even have picture controls. Are there displays that do not?

I'd guess that the logic is that not all TVs that do have picture controls have them for each separate input. Especially now when you might have gear connected via composite, s-video, DVI, HDMI, or component (I'm sure I'm ommiting many), it makes more sense to calibrate the TV for that particular input. However, it requires that you have your source set up properly to send an accurate signal to the display...and therein lies the BTB/IRE issue with some of the earlier 3910s. At least I think so...

J.
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post #5929 of 7479
4/13/06 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I haven't the foggiest idea why DVD players even have picture controls. Are there displays that do not?

If one is routing several inputs through a receiver for instance, the display would see that as a single input, thus any changes on the display become global not source dependent. That would be alot more hassle than being able to configure each source with one or more configurations. I would not want my STB settings for SD used when I am watching a DVD as the criteria are different, for example.
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post #5930 of 7479
4/13/06 at 8:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhollis View Post

One reason I can think of for player picture controls is the situation where the player and other sources share the same TV input. For example, a cable box and player routed through a reciever with a single out to the TV. In that scenario, the tv's picture controls could be optimized for the cable box, and then any additional adjustment necessary to optimize the picture for the player could be made with the player's controls.

Do I win something?

Yes, you win, that's exactly the primary reason. Plus, different types of discs, video vs film for example may need different adjustments, anime may require different settings...having those settings is very handy. My 5900 has 5 different selections with about 4 different settings for each.
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post #5931 of 7479
4/13/06 at 8:06pm
I agree with Hammerli.
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post #5932 of 7479
4/14/06 at 5:49am
Watching some DVD's with the 3910 last night. Picture seems a bit on the "green" side. Anyway to correct this? Is this a known function of this player? Case in point in watching Walt Disney's "Sleeping Beauty" the blue fairy Merryweather's gown looks almost a blue green. When played on the old Toshiba it was most definitely blue.

Also watched Brokeback Mountain last night on the 3910, again a definite pronounced green hue compared to when viewed with the Toshiba. Particularly noticeable with the background showing sky and clouds.
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post #5933 of 7479
4/14/06 at 8:09am
Not aware of any green hue problems with the 3910. But it's probably necessary for you to adjust your picture settings some from the ones you were using with the Toshiba to optimize the picture for the 3910. You might think about getting an Avia or DVE disk to help you calibrate the picture. Between the display's adjustments and the many adjustments available with the 3910, you've got plenty of room to tweak.
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post #5934 of 7479
4/14/06 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfbinet View Post

Watching some DVD's with the 3910 last night. Picture seems a bit on the "green" side. Anyway to correct this? Is this a known function of this player? Case in point in watching Walt Disney's "Sleeping Beauty" the blue fairy Merryweather's gown looks almost a blue green. When played on the old Toshiba it was most definitely blue.

Also watched Brokeback Mountain last night on the 3910, again a definite pronounced green hue compared to when viewed with the Toshiba. Particularly noticeable with the background showing sky and clouds.


As far as the green issue, I think this occurs on some displays if you are using component connection? I had a similar issue and I corrected it by changing the (tint or gamma can't remember which one to +1) Made a difference and now the player looks great.
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post #5935 of 7479
4/14/06 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

First of all, use THX Optimizer, present on many DVDs such as Star Wars, to see whether your specific unit does pass BTB or not (don't assume anything based on the build date). If it does not pass BTB, then only you can decide whether you like the PQ or not. Worst case: you may be losing some detail in dark scenes.

Does it matter which Star Wars Episode or not. I think of renting them from Netflix.
Thanks
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post #5936 of 7479
4/14/06 at 5:42pm
Does it matter which Star Wars Episode or not. I think of renting them from Netflix.
Thanks
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post #5937 of 7479
4/14/06 at 6:25pm
My 3910 had a green push on the DVI output. When I sent it in to have the blacker-than-black fixed, I mentioned this as well and it came back with no green push. However, I now have to set the dvi output to enhanced blacks, or they are washed out. It's as if enhanced is where normal should be and normal is just too light.

There are picture settings, that you can use to adjust the tint to lessen the green. Maybe even perfectly correct the problem. I don't know, I didn't use the DVI output all that often.
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post #5938 of 7479
4/14/06 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivoniko View Post

Does it matter which Star Wars Episode or not. I think of renting them from Netflix.
Thanks

I believe it's on all the episodes.
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post #5939 of 7479
4/16/06 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yates View Post

My 3910 had a green push on the DVI output. When I sent it in to have the blacker-than-black fixed, I mentioned this as well and it came back with no green push. However, I now have to set the dvi output to enhanced blacks, or they are washed out. It's as if enhanced is where normal should be and normal is just too light.

Have you run Avia/DVE since getting it back?
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post #5940 of 7479
4/16/06 at 10:13am
I've looked at SMPTE color bars since I've gotten it back. The green tint was pretty noticeable without even test patterns. I'm judging the blacks against my Iscan HD+'s internal test patterns which I assume are fairly accurate (I have no way to know for sure) with the DVI input set to video levels (or whatever the Iscan calls it, can't remember now).
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