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Denon 3910 Owners Thread - Page 246

post #7351 of 7503
Thanks..pbarach I assume that any ethernet cable should work for Denon link?
post #7352 of 7503
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbarlas View Post

Thanks..pbarach I assume that any ethernet cable should work for Denon link?

Yes, any old Ethernet cable will work--or I think Denon will sell you one for $500. And there are some HILARIOUS fake reviews of this cable on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-De.../dp/B000I1X6PM


I had a cheap Ethernet cable sitting around the house and it works fine.
post #7353 of 7503
LOL yes I have seen your posts about Denon link being a regular ethernet cable!

I was looking at my Denon 2809 and I did not see a conection for Denon Link. Is it possible that my AVR does not have Denon link? If that is the case how do i go about setting this up? Here is the link for 2809. Thanks for your help

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1057392
post #7354 of 7503
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbarlas View Post

I was looking at my Denon 2809 and I did not see a conection for Denon Link. Is it possible that my AVR does not have Denon link? If that is the case how do i go about setting this up?

Denon's website says it does have a DLInk III connection:
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4484.asp (look at Specifications tab).

However, when I looked at a picture of the back of the unit, I didn't see a DLink input. If you don't have this input, you cannot use Dlink or add it to the 2809. You would have to use one of the digital connections to the 3910 (which allows you to use the room correction features on this input), or the analog connections (no Audyssey room correction, but it is the only way to play SACD and DVD through your receiver).
post #7355 of 7503
Has anyone repaired the "traverse unit" themselves on the 3910? After reading this thread - and not noticing any problems for years on my 3910, I tried some CDs and.. guess what: 00 00 00.

I really have no desire to ship this thing to New Jersey and back, nor do I want to get rid of it.

The laser head seems to be obtainable for $49 on ebay... but I've got my doubts...

pacparts.com has the transverse assembly here (9KA2A708) (including spindle and laser) for $126.61.

http://www.pacparts.com/model.cfm?mf...TOKEN=41970390

TigerDirect Parts has it for $117

http://tigerdirect.partsearch.com/Pa...2A708/New.aspx


Local service centers have quoted $500 to repair.

My worry of course is some kind of crazy service mode and alignment discs needed to do this. I usually feel a lot more comfortable doing this kind of thing myself, but, from what I've heard people here have had this unit fixed and had it go out shortly thereafter.

There is an alignment procedure, which "requires the remote" -- I guess I should be looking for the service manual, too -- which apparently is impossible to find, even if you're willing to pay for it.


... P.S.: If I can figure this out (and I've certainly done stuff like this before, like on my XA777ES) - I'd have no problem at all performing these repairs for other 3910 owners for cost-of-parts/shipping only; and sharing the procedure.
post #7356 of 7503
Okay, excellent news - this looks good - for anyone who may want to replace the traverse unit on their 3910 themselves.

I'll document this as much as I can, hopefully to a successful end:

I got a hold of the service manual; and it:

1) States the procedure to test for a failed traverse unit, using a simple multimeter, by measuring DVD voltage (div. 14 for mA) across two test points; and by measuring CD voltage (div. 12 for mA) across two test points. No special test CDs are needed.

Opening up my DVD-3910 today, I noticed, on the back of the DVD mechanism, two numbers: CD - 2.19 mA / DVD - 2.19 mA

There is a section in the service manual: "Judging for Traverse Unit Replacement":

"NO DISC indicated, etc. Check Iop according to the measuring method described in step 2 below. If the checked value is 1.5 times or more than the initial Iop indicaated on the rear of the mechanism unit, the traverse unit should be replaced."

There are two points on the DVD board: "DVD Laser Drive Measuring Point", "CD Laser Drive Measuring Point". -- "DVD Laser Drive current is calculated by Measured Voltage Value / 14; CD Laser Drive current is calculated by Measured Voltage Value / 12".

"Playback the title-1 of (test disc) or commercially available DVD disc."
"Playback the track-1 of (test disc) or commercially available CD disc."

"If the present value of the laser drive current is 150% up to initial value, it is the point of the pickup replacement."

So..there's where those original values came in. Handy that they wrote them on there in the factory. (Every 3910 should have this.)

This is where I'm having trouble - I can only assume this means "above 150% of initial value". Nothing else would make sense...

But,

2) here's the good part:

"No mechanism adjustment is required as the whole unit is replaced with a new one."

and

"In the case of the pickup replacement, replace the Traverse Unit with no adjustment."

Just in case you didn't hear it the first time.

This is good indeed, and means this might be a success and an easy repalcement for 3910 owners; bringing the repair cost down from $300-$500 to around $120.

Also, it seems that this newer traverse unit might be improved. There was a 'technical bulletin' saying that the "9KA-2A-506B" has been replaced with the currently orderable part, "9KA-2A-708". Maybe Denon was made aware of these reliability issues and the -708 part may be a later revision.

We shall see! I couldn't find anyone else doing this on the 'net, and, FYI I have a 2910 and 5910CI as well, from what I can tell the part numbers are different, but the procedure should be identical.

So, there's an update on this and we'll see how it goes.

-Michi

I'll measure my Iop values tomorrow and let everyone know how it goes.
post #7357 of 7503
Thank you Michi,
I had mine replaced a year ago here at a local shop, IIRC it was around $300. Going forward it would be nice to be able to do it myself in the future (if needed). The 3910 is way to nice a player to get rid of.
post #7358 of 7503
IwantmyTHX,

I haven't measured my Iop values yet because I ordered the mechanism ($117 shipped,
http://www.partstore.com/Part/Denon+...2A708/New.aspx ) - and have decided I want to open the 3910 just once, if at all possible. But all behavor points to a prediction that i'm going to get a bad Iop reading, so i'll just make note of it in the process for academic reasons.

They've shipped it and I have a tracking number, so hopefully Monday or so.

But I will document this as much as possible as soon as the mechanism arrives and I replace it.

I'm pretty confident, looking at the inside of the machine and the service manual.

Biggest risk is ESD, I think.

But if this goes smoothly, yes, $117 to keep the 3910 at full functionality is a lot better than some of the quotes and repair prices I've seen.

After this is done (and hopefully successful!) I'd have no problems at all doing this for folks at cost only, or helping others through it.

Thanks,
Michi
post #7359 of 7503
The plot thickens.

I got a second 3910 unit this weekend, that i'm going to try to do different surgery on after this: (It has the exact same trouble.)

It seems, somewhere, somehow, we should be able to get -just the laser unit- for this player from anywhere from $10-$50.

The issue is: I cannot find the part number. It is likely Hitachi or Sanyo.

The DVD-3930 uses Sanyo SF-HD65. I've heard some rumors that the 3910 may use Sanyo HF-HD62; but I cannot find this substantiated anywhere.

The first unit will get the complete traverse mechanism replacement; the second, hopefully, I can figure out what the laser head alone is. We'll see.

If anyone can provide this info, please do... It is whatever this item is, most likely:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230375193529
post #7360 of 7503
Looks like Hitachi HOP-1200S, around $15. Got one, took the risk ( ) will report back as well.

EDIT: May also be the HOP-1200R. But also, the HOP-1200S may be a replacement for the HOP-1200R. Will do some further investigation.
post #7361 of 7503
Progress...

Verified: Laser head for the DVD-3910 is the Hitachi HOP-1200R.

UPDATE: The HOP-1200S is a replacement for the HOP-1200R and can be used in place of it.

HOP-1200R: $25.00 on eBay, shipped.
HOP-1200S: $17.00 on eBay, shipped.

So I ordered one each of these;

Tonight I also did a 'dry run' on the replacement:

-Removed the Traverse mechanism and put it back.
-Removed the Laser Head (alone) and put it back.

Both were fairly straightforward. It seems to me the laser head -only- (read:cheaper) replacement may be the EASIER replacement! (Less ribbon cables to worry about.)

After complete disassembly and reassembly, I'm listening to Alison Krauss+Union Station Live on SACD right now as I type this on the unit that was in pieces, down to the laser.

For anyone who may be reading, I found this in my research:

Laser Pickup for Denon units:

Denon DVD-2900: Hitachi HOP-1000 or Hitachi HOP-1120 ~($40)
Denon DVD-2910: Hitachi HOP-1200R (~$25) or Hitachi HOP-1200S (~$17) or Hitachi HOP-1200W (~$15)
Denon DVD-3910: Hitachi HOP-1200R (~$25) or Hitachi HOP-1200S (~$17) or Hitachi HOP-1200W (~$15)
Denon DVD-2930: Sanyo SF-HD65 (~$8)
Denon DVD-3930: Sanyo SF-HD65 (~$8)

(The Hitachi HOP-1000 may work in the 2910 and 3910 also but I can't find one; it's more robust, made of metal, more solid. )

-Replacing these should not require any realignment.

-You MUST remove the grounding solder points on the laser heads before they'll work; I've done this on other machines before (such as my XA777ES) - this is an ESD protection mechanism, it's best to use a 'solder sucker' sort of solder remover rather than a wick. This is probably the toughest part of the entire procedure.

... So, we may be down to $17 on the fix for this. More to come.
post #7362 of 7503
Traverse mechanism arrived today. Laser head is HOP-1200W.

From what I can tell, all of the following are compatible:

HOP-1200R
HOP-1200S
HOP-1200W

In order of recency. Will update shortly on success or no-success.
post #7363 of 7503
Well, good news is: the $117 fix was a success.

The bad news? - I really think I could have done this faster, and easier, for $15.

Pulling apart the entire DVD mechanism and replacing the entire traverse mechanism, was, it seems to me, unneccessary.

The HOP-1200* laser head seems to be easily mounted on the traverse mechanism in-situ.

The good part is, I get to try the $15 fix on my other 3910 later this week.

So, $117 later and about an hour of work later, my original 3910 can play CDs again. And still plays SACDs and DVDs.

The hardest parts were these:

A) Desoldering the grounding/shorting blob on the laser head,
B) Being careful with the ribbon cables.

So in other words -- not that tough.

I'd actually at this point recommend people hold off and wait for the verdict on the $15 fix (laser head only) - because it probably will take half the time, half the screw removal, and 1/4 of the thin cable removal. Not to mention the cost.

But, anyone who has an hour, and feels comfortable doing it, at least $300-$500 for fixing these units should now be out of the question for everone
post #7364 of 7503
Thank you michidragon,
Great description, and let us know on the $15. Might be a good idea to get someone to record it, or at least take some pics.
post #7365 of 7503
I've got step by step pictures of the traverse mechanism replacement. Really wasn't very hard. I could downsize them and post them here, but I don't know how long they'd stay here. So I may do it that way, or I may put it into a downloadable PDF or something... If anyone needs any help (with pictures), please PM me here, or flag me down on audioasylum or sa-cd.net.

The laser heads haven't arrived yet, but as soon as they do, I've got the second 3910 waiting to be fixed, and will document that as well.
post #7366 of 7503
Have purchased a complete replacement laser transport for DVD-3910 but can you please confirm the position of the solder points on laser head that need de-soldering. I have fairly good idea from original unit but want to be sure! A picture would be very gratefully recieved!
post #7367 of 7503
I certainly can help with this -- but, I need to know the following - which replacement head do you have?

HOP-1000
HOP-1120
HOP-1200R
HOP-1200S
HOP-1200W

Reason being, the design on them did change (they're different revisions but -all will work-, it seems) -- but the solder points are different on them.

I've got them all as of today and can post a pic of where the solder points are.

For example, the 1200S has two solder points on the side, one for CD and one for DVD; the 1200W has one smaller solder point on the rear that is easy to miss, that handles shorting for both DVD and CD.
post #7368 of 7503
Quote:
Originally Posted by michidragon View Post

Okay, excellent news - this looks good - for anyone who may want to replace the traverse unit on their 3910 themselves.

I'll document this as much as I can, hopefully to a successful end:

I got a hold of the service manual; and it:

1) States the procedure to test for a failed traverse unit, using a simple multimeter, by measuring DVD voltage (div. 14 for mA) across two test points; and by measuring CD voltage (div. 12 for mA) across two test points. No special test CDs are needed.

Opening up my DVD-3910 today, I noticed, on the back of the DVD mechanism, two numbers: CD - 2.19 mA / DVD - 2.19 mA

There is a section in the service manual: "Judging for Traverse Unit Replacement":

"NO DISC indicated, etc. Check Iop according to the measuring method described in step 2 below. If the checked value is 1.5 times or more than the initial Iop indicaated on the rear of the mechanism unit, the traverse unit should be replaced."

There are two points on the DVD board: "DVD Laser Drive Measuring Point", "CD Laser Drive Measuring Point". -- "DVD Laser Drive current is calculated by Measured Voltage Value / 14; CD Laser Drive current is calculated by Measured Voltage Value / 12".

"Playback the title-1 of (test disc) or commercially available DVD disc."
"Playback the track-1 of (test disc) or commercially available CD disc."

"If the present value of the laser drive current is 150% up to initial value, it is the point of the pickup replacement."

So..there's where those original values came in. Handy that they wrote them on there in the factory. (Every 3910 should have this.)

This is where I'm having trouble - I can only assume this means "above 150% of initial value". Nothing else would make sense...

But,

2) here's the good part:

"No mechanism adjustment is required as the whole unit is replaced with a new one."

and

"In the case of the pickup replacement, replace the Traverse Unit with no adjustment."

Just in case you didn't hear it the first time.

This is good indeed, and means this might be a success and an easy repalcement for 3910 owners; bringing the repair cost down from $300-$500 to around $120.

Also, it seems that this newer traverse unit might be improved. There was a 'technical bulletin' saying that the "9KA-2A-506B" has been replaced with the currently orderable part, "9KA-2A-708". Maybe Denon was made aware of these reliability issues and the -708 part may be a later revision.

We shall see! I couldn't find anyone else doing this on the 'net, and, FYI I have a 2910 and 5910CI as well, from what I can tell the part numbers are different, but the procedure should be identical.

So, there's an update on this and we'll see how it goes.

-Michi

I'll measure my Iop values tomorrow and let everyone know how it goes.

I am curious if you checked your voltage test points before and after replacing the traverse unit? Also if you did check it and results said to replace traverse unit, did you try to just replace the laser only? What was the result? I am curious as I am going on my third traverse unit. First was replaced by Denon under warranty, I think they used the traverse unit ending in ...506B.
post #7369 of 7503
DVD value was OK, CD value was marginal. 145%; it says to replace at 150%. My unit was giving the 00h00m00s display on about 30% of CDs, but was reading DVDs and SACDs fine.

I replaced the entire traverse mech on the first 3910, but really, it seems that is NOT neccessary.

I finally got the HOP-1200S/W/R units this week (took longer than expected to get here from Asia), but these heads were about $15 each.

I have a second 3910 i'm about to replace the head *only* on. Sorry it took longer than expected, the shipping took longer than expected on this end.

I see absolutely no reason to replace anything more than the laser head alone.
post #7370 of 7503
I am looking forward to hearing about the outcome of this experiment....I can't help but wonder if replacing the entire assembly is the best route if it has been improved...
post #7371 of 7503
Michidragon. You are the greatest. I have a Denon 2910 that needs a new laser. How do I get ahold of your picture by picture instruction on the Assembly replacement that you describe?

Thanks a million!
post #7372 of 7503
Quote:
Originally Posted by JawsCFA View Post

Michidragon. You are the greatest. I have a Denon 2910 that needs a new laser. How do I get ahold of your picture by picture instruction on the Assembly replacement that you describe?

Thanks a million!



Jaws,

The 2910 procedure should be identical to the 3910 -- I can send you the pictures, or, pretty soon i can trim them / annotate them / put them up here (if they'll stay up). It's not very difficult.

However: Good news...

The $15 method *DOES WORK*. I replaced a bad HOP-1200R in the second DVD-3910 with a HOP-1120, and tried a HOP-1200S, as well. Both worked..

Total procedure time was fifteen minutes. Simply:

-Remove the unit cover
-Eject the disc tray and turn power off
-Remove the top of the transport box
-Undo the rail securing plate (two screws) at the rear of the laser slide mechanism
-Lift the lock for the ribbon cable to the laser head and remove it from the laser head.
-Lift both rails (tilting them upwards) and slide the laser head (including the white gear rack) off - DO NOT LOSE ANY SPRINGS!
-While holding the white gear rack - DO NOT LOSE THE SPRING! - to the NEW laser head, slide the laser head back on the rails.
-Screw down the rails under the rail securing plate again,
-Plug the ribbon cable back into the laser mechanism and lock it
-Using solder wick, and a 15w soldering iron, desolder the two (or one in the case of HOP-1200W) solder blobs towards the rear right of the laser head (a gentle touch works fine)
-Screw the top of the transport box back on
-Put the cover of the 3910 back on
-Plug in, power on, go.


The caveats:

-DO NOT LOSE ANY SPRINGS!!!! There are three of them: One under each rail under the rail securing plate, and one under the laser head itself, between the laser head and the white gear rack. Just be careful.

-If you have a HOP-1120/1200R/1200S traverse mechanism, you can't use a HOP-1200W laser head. The reason is, there's a little white tab of plastic that gets in the way. (Electrically they're the same. If you're replacing the entire traverse mechanism, it does NOT matter if your old traverse CONTAINED a 1120/1200R/1200S and the new one has a 1200W) - This is purely a physical 'will it fit' issue.

Pictures as soon as I get things more organized.

Note: The traverse mechanism is simply: the rails, the metal frame, the gear motor, and the spindle motor. I don't feel that replacing the entire traverse is neccessary. You can go your own way on this, $115 or $15, but at least its not a choice of $500 to get repaired or $1500 for a new/equivalent unit anymore.

SO: Denon DVD-3910 with 00h00m00s problem FIXED, for $15, in 15 minutes.


... Now, does anyone have a non-working DVD-3930 they're willing to part with?
post #7373 of 7503
Thanks for the write up michidragon
post #7374 of 7503
Quote:
Originally Posted by michidragon View Post

... Now, does anyone have a non-working DVD-3930 they're willing to part with?

That is a good idea. I don't remember if the 5910 had the same ailment.
post #7375 of 7503
I was having trouble with the 3910 stopping then skipping tracks on SACD's only and some hybrid discs will not read (00 00 00).
I cleaned the laser with a quality glass cleaner and all is back to normal,although for less than $20.00 I will pick up a spare laser pick-up.
Bob J
post #7376 of 7503
My 3910 has always had one intermittent issue with single layer SACDs--I sometimes hear static and what sounds like a muted, slowed down, garbled version of the music when I first press play. The problem usually goes away if I open the disc tray and close it again.

I'm now experiencing an additional issue--I was playing NIN's "The Downward Spiral" in multichannel yesterday and it started skipping on track 7. Tracks 8 and above also had the problem. The disc is in flawless condition and played perfectly multichannel mode in my PS3, so I know it's not a disc problem. I tried playing the stereo and CD layers in my 3910, and had no issues there, either.

Has anyone experienced these issues before? If so, how did you fix them? I'm hoping to be able to avoid sending the player out for service, but it seems like I may have no choice.
post #7377 of 7503
My 3910 outputs DVD video fine with either composite (single-wire) or HDMI, but I get nothing on my TV when I connect via component video. Unplugging the HDMI cable from the 3910 doesn't make any difference. Component worked when I got this player, and with the same TV. So is there some setting I should change? Or is something broken?
post #7378 of 7503
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

My 3910 outputs DVD video fine with either composite (single-wire) or HDMI, but I get nothing on my TV when I connect via component video. Unplugging the HDMI cable from the 3910 doesn't make any difference. Component worked when I got this player, and with the same TV. So is there some setting I should change? Or is something broken?

Good question. I have a similar problem playing SACDs. Something happened between my 3910 and 4806 and I no longer get any sound from SACDs. CDs DVDs and DVDA all play fine. Not a peep from SACDs anymore. They used to play fine.
post #7379 of 7503
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGZ28 View Post

Good question. I have a similar problem playing SACDs. Something happened between my 3910 and 4806 and I no longer get any sound from SACDs. CDs DVDs and DVDA all play fine. Not a peep from SACDs anymore. They used to play fine.

Are you connected via Denonlink or analog (SACD doesn't transmit over HDMI in this player)
post #7380 of 7503
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Are you connected via Denonlink or analog (SACD doesn't transmit over HDMI in this player)

Denon Link 3. It worked fine for a couple of years. Popped a SAC in one day and no sound. 3910 shows it is outputting 5 channel but the 4806 isn't receiving them.
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