LaCrosse / Wausau, WI - HDTV

I've been reading AVS Forums for years, but have yet to purchase an HDTV. Good to see a few Eau Claire people care about DTV. Do we know how long they are staying low power. I read a statement a month ago or so that said they were hoping for 30 - 40 miles signal range under low power. Might be able to pick it up with a good Channel Master UHF antenna. Either the double bowtie model #4228 or the yagi 4248 mounted on the roof might do the trick. Please keep us posted............

Jimboeau

My guess is that they will stay underpowered for as long as they can. Rumor has it that the FCC might not protect frequencies indefinitely for stations that don't run full-power, but I haven't seen any confirmation of that.

I think they're dreaming for a <10kw UHF signal to reach 40 miles. Maybe if you're sitting on top of a hill with no obstructions to the tower. Otherwise, I'd expect 20 miles to be a more realistic limit.

50 kw supposedly gets close to that 40 mile number.

I'm sitting 56 miles away. Looks like I'll be waiting forever.

About a month ago I sent an email to WKBT and here was the reply I got......

We are pleased to report that on March 28th, WKBT-DT began broadcasting digital and HDTV programming on Channel 41 from an antenna mounted on a tower in Galesville, WI. We will continue broadcasting our analog programming over WKBT-TV, including CBS network programs and local news and public affairs, on Channel 8. We will continue to operate both in digital on Channel 41 and in analog on Channel 8 for several more years until the transition to digital is complete.

Our predicted coverage area for digital broadcasts is a radius of about 30 to 40 miles around our Galesville tower. Some of the cities within our digital service area include LaCrosse, Winona, West Salem, Sparta, Black River Falls, Arcadia and Caledonia. This DOES NOT mean that every household will be able to receive WKBT-DT because our signal is blocked by the bluffs and valleys.

We are studying a number of options to expand our over-the-air digital coverage area. We are also continuing discussions with cable companies to carry the digital and HDTV programming we broadcast over WKBT-DT. Unfortunately, no cable company is currently carrying WKBT-DT (or any other digital broadcast signals) so, for now, the only way you can receive our digital programming is to purchase a digital television and install an antenna or in many cases, use your existing antenna.

We have heard from less than 10 people regarding reception (or lack thereof) of WKBT-DT. We plan to expand the areas we can serve in the future, but we must hear from you. Input we receive from viewers like you regarding reception are all very important factors in determining what our next step will be regarding expansion of the service area for WKBT-DT.

We appreciate your feedback and hope for your patience as we proceed down this very complex transition to a digital future.


Sincerely,

Scott Chorski, General Mgr.
Dick Konrad, Chief Enginee

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It would make no sense to only broadcast 20 miles because the tower is in between La Crosse and Eau Claire which means only a few cows could get the signal. If that were the case Eau Claire and La Crosse would be shut out.............

Jimboeau

Anyone with line-of-sight to their tower should be able to get it, almost regardless of the power. 9.13 kw ERP, directional at that, is a very low amount of power, though, and will have almost no penetration beyond that limit. They are up pretty high (298 meters) which means the theoretical horizon (over perfectly flat terrain) is close to 60 miles, but almost anything (trees, buildings, small hills) will break up that weak of a signal. Also, any noise source will quickly overpower the signal as distance from the transmitter increases. Daylight reception will likely be spotty-to-poor at 30 miles, even with line-of-sight.

Do a search on this forum for ERP and distance and you'll quickly find that power levels below 50kw don't have much range. WKBT is unlikely to be the exception to the laws of physics, no matter what their engineers think.

Anybody know if WEUX Fox out of Eau Claire is going live on July 1. TitanTV has July 1 as a live date.........

Also, what power is WKBT broadcasting their digital signal? I hear low power, but some site say 1000kw.........

Jimboeau

In general, only the engineers know when they'll go live with a signal. Take TitanTV's information with a grain of salt.

For WKBT, go to this site:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio2?x=tvq.html

Enter WKBT and select the "TV Query" option at the bottom. There will be at least one listing for digital. One is the "full service" listing which is what the FCC has allocated for their use. If there is an "STA" listing, that's what they're using now. Some web sites ignore the STAs and only show the full-power listing. In WKBT's case, they're using a directional antenna (take the total ERP and multiply it by the factor corresponding to the compass direction from the antenna to your location for the effective ERP in your direction) at a whopping 9.13 kw.

In general, if you don't have line-of-sight to the transmitter to your antenna, that ought to be good for about 10 miles. Maybe less. 50kw does very well at covering a 20-30 mile radius.

I've heard from both Dick Konrad @ WKBT DT and Charter's front desk (had to replace a faulty cable modem) that CBS will be on Charter HD *soon*, and even possibly by the Super Bowl. Since I've yet to hear anything from Charter on an official marketing roll-out, I'm not holding out much hope that it'll be here by February 1st for the Super Bowl. Too bad they don't need beta-testers.

BJS

Hi:
I had been wondering about news regarding when fox 48 out of Eau Claire would start broadcasting digital and even 720p this fall when fox goes to that.... If you recall they had been listed in Titan as going digital last July 2003.. now some sites say 2004... I am not going to hold my breath as I just wrote to them and finally got a response. (not real encouraging IMHO)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding when and how much SDTV/HDTV that FOX 25 & FOX 48 will be
broadcasting in the area, what I can say is this: WLAX and WEUX are still
working with equipment vendors, bankers and the F.C.C. in order to get the
equipment and in trying to get it installed...-

When we have a better handle on that situation, we'll be more than happy
to let the viewers know, -via- our current On-Air-Channels of WLAX-TV 25 and
WEUX-TV 48, in La Crosse and Chippewa Falls-Eau Claire, WI.
respectively...and our web-site (www.fox25fox48.com), the date(s) and I'm
also sure that our Promotions Dept., headed up by Ms. Pat Stiphout, will be
waving the banner of SDTV/HDTV high and proudly, again, when the time is
near...-

I apologize that I can't be more helpful than that...I don't want to
give out a date and then, for whatever reason, that date is not met. I
would feel much better when I can actually have the equipment on-hand,
properly installed and tested and THEN, being able to pick a date that will
not only be enjoyed by everyone who's able to tune in, but also the folks
that have worked so hard to get it to you...I'm sure you would want us to be
able to put out the best product available and do it in a manner that is
consistent and doesn't degrade the wonders of SDTV/HDTV itself...-

Please be patient...it makes much more sense to it right the first time.
Remember, if you didn't have the time to do it right the first time, where
will you get the time to do it over again, correctly?

Please feel free to keep me updated with your situation (regarding
e-mail addresses, if you move, etc...). I'll keep your e-mail information
in a folder/database of potential SDTV/HDTV viewers so that when we do get
ready to go on, you folks (our potential viewers), may be able to get an
e-mail from me asking you to watch and critque how SDTV/HDTV looks, sounds
and performs...-

If you have any more questions, please feel free to contact me -via-
e-mail and I'll try to get back to you as soom as possible...-

Respectfully,


Mark G. Burg
Chief Operator / Chief Engineer / SHoVA Czar
GRANT Media L.L.C.
(a division of: GRANT COMMUNICATIONS, Inc.)
WLAX-TV / WEUX-TV - FOX 25 / FOX 48
WLAX-DT / WEUX-DT
La Crosse / Chippewa Falls-Eau Claire, WI.
1305 Interchange Place - La Crosse, WI. 54603.1673.05.0
608.781.0025, x.205

I just wanted to get a tread started for the central WI area. I have good luck getting all my local DTV OTA stations including NBC from Eau Claire. So far NBC and PBS are the only HD stations with 5.1 sound. ABC and CBS are doing Dolby stereo right now, with CBS just getting to stereo on their analog station a few years back. I have talked with the FOX engineer and have no hope for them to get our Packer games in HD. His forecast might be two years just to get a digital signal going.

Dave

Has anyone heard from Charter about getting HDTV cable like they have in Madison? I keep asking my local cable company (WCTC - Wood County Telephone Company) and have never been given a straight answer.

try Direct TV....Fox HD is beginning to do a national feed soon and you might get some games there. I am in Madison and don't have fox HD yet so don't feel bad. I had charter HD in Madison and it sucked. PQ was horrible...squares all over the place and no DVI output on the box!!! try satellite. gl

My friend has Dish with HD for ESPN but nothing for FOX. I will have to take a look at Direct and see if i can get anything local with FOX.

Official La Crosse/Eau Claire & Wausau/Rhinelander, WI thread.

CPanter95,

Thanks for adding the La Crosse/Wausau thread to the list. I hope more cheeseheads post soon.

I just read this on the Western Wisconsin Society of Broadcast Engineers website. SBE Website

WKBT will be replacing their antenna next spring and bumping their digital transmitter up to full power.

Very good news for those of us who can not get CBS in HD over the air.

I have two questions for Wausau viewers. First, has anyone had problems with CBS and audio drop outs or just clips with the sound. It's enough to notice but not bad enough to turn the channel.

Second, i was not able to pick up MNF last night. I had a great signal strength of 92, but no picture or sound. I hope a station problems since i had not problems with CBS, PBS or NBC.

I have had an ongoing conversation with WKBT of La Crosse. The main topic is that they insist on stretching all of their 4:3 content on their DT station to fill the entire 16:9 frame. (Rather than leaving the black bars on the sides like most HD stations)

The only time that they do not do this is during primetime programming (7:00 to 11:35). The rest of the day they stretch the 4:3 to fill the screen. This has included the SD football games on weekends, and many other things that have been annoying to watch.

The main reason that they claim they are doing this is so that they can't be blamed for causing burn-in on the screen of someone with Plasma, or other technologies that are prone to this. I have pointed out to them that TVs of that kind are able to zoom/stretch the image, but they are still paranoid that someone will blame them if their 10,000 plasma gets burn-in.

I have written to them multiple times complaining, but it seems to fall on deaf ears. The main reason they won't stop doing this is that they claim I am the only person to have ever complained about this... which is why I am posting here.

If you watch WKBT-DT and find the stretched 4:3 content to be annoying please respond in here and let me know. I think if we get enough people who agree with me we could get this changed.

Thanks.

On another topic, I have been talking with Fox 25 and they say they will have HD going before the Super Bowl. (Probably not much before, but they have been working on it)

Actually, it was adopted in the FCC's Second DTV Periodic Review. In short, it gives ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC affiliates in the top 100 markets until July of 2005 to maximize their DT service areas. All other commercial stations have until July of 2006. Unfortunately, it looks like La Crosse-Eau Claire (market #126) will be under that later deadline.

There's plenty of debate whether the FCC will stick to these deadlines, but an engineer from Greensboro, NC who posts on this forum insists the FCC really, really, really means it this time, and I would like to believe it.

Where is Fox 25 located? The Fox 55 in Wausau is not going to have anything up and running soon. It sounds like almost 2006 before they get bug up their butt. I can pull in Channel 13-1 with no problems will I have a chance with FOX 25?

Fox 25 is out of La Crosse. I am not sure about the Eau Claire Fox 48, but I would guess it will come at a similar time. (They are sister stations)

I am not sure if you will be able to get it, but I will post here when it is up and running.

The problem with Fox 55 in Wausau is that they didn't get their analog permit until after 1997. That means they don't get a second channel for digital. To begin digital broadcasts they have to turn the analog OTA signal off...

Doug,

That is basically what the engineer at FOX told me. They are just waiting for all the red tape to clear and see where they stand.

Well, I've received WKBT-DT exactly once so far due to their low power, but I expect that to change dramatically when they go full power in the spring.

However, other stations I receive also do the 16:9 strecth of 4:3 content, but this doesn't bother me at all since my television offers a "force 4:3" option on all HD content which effectively "unstretches" the image. I know not all HD STBs and televisions have this option, but the fact that some do may account for the low number of complaints.

HD or digital? I'd be shocked to see them put up a digital signal *and* be HD-capable the same day, but I suppose it's possible. Here's hoping (and WEUX, as well, since I get that much better than WLAX.)

I have an HD STB from Charter... but I am unable to "force 4:3" as you say. All of the stations that are 4:3 naturally (analog) are able to stay in 4:3 through my cable box, but when WKBT stretches the 4:3 image, and then sends it out in 1080i (I assume) I am unable to get either my STB or my TV to put it back into the correct ratio... they both assume it is a "real" HD broadcast.

They claim it will really be HD (and yes, I fully understand the difference), but I agree that we will have to see it to believe it. I will be happy to even get a digital version of their station, since it is one of the worst analog ones we get.

I got an email from their Cheif Engineer just a few days ago. He said that they actually have everything ready to go right now and they just need FCC approval. He said he would email me (and others on his list) as soon as they are ready ... hopefully it will be coming soon. I will post here as soon as they tell me that they have turned it on.

By the way, he also said it would be low power to start, but he would be "happy just to get something digital out there."

My apologies for the typo. I meant, "I know *not* all" not, "now all."

My advice would be to complain to Charter about their box, not to WKBT.