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The Official R5000-HD Technical Status Discussion - Page 88

post #2611 of 2773
I'm surprised nobody actually noticed, but the 64bit Vista DVR application is NOT compatible with the Windows 7 64 System Tray. It causes the system tray to flip out and prevent all other tray icons from being visible.

I found a great solution. I use the application called "Always Up" to run the DVR app as a service (similar to srvany; except much nicer). This protects the app from misbehaving. However, you wont be able to view the R5000 system tray icon while it's running. Using the 64bit version of the software and driver under Windows 7 + Hugo's proxy application works perfectly and dependably for cableTV.

@Wes, whats the actual symptom/problem you're having? Is it with playback on a particular device? I dont have DN, but have a few DN recordings. They playback perfectly on my Nvidia based card on a PC as well as my SageTV HD200 and my SageTV HD300.
post #2612 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKANET View Post

@Wes, whats the actual symptom/problem you're having? Is it with playback on a particular device? I dont have DN, but have a few DN recordings. They playback perfectly on my Nvidia based card on a PC as well as my SageTV HD200 and my SageTV HD300.

@MKANET,

Thanks for your reply.

I'm not having a "problem" per se, it was more of an academic question.

I'm using XBMC Live to playback on my 1080p television, and the recordings are interlaced.

They look perfectly fine, as long as I tell XBMC to use inverse telecine.

I was just wondering if Dish is actually telecine-ing the content and hard-coding extra frames into the stream to make it 1080i at 30fps, or if they are using some sort of flags to interlace and apply pull-down. (because the source material was clearly 1080p @ 24fps)

It's like when you rip an HD-DVD, it's 1080p content at 24fps, but they've applied pull-down "flags" to the stream so that a player will know which frames to repeat if you're playing it on a TV that doesn't support 1080p24. If your player is outputting 1080p24 (because your tv supports 24fps) then the player ignores the pull-down flags, but many software players don't know they're supposed to ignore them, so if your TV does support it 24fps, it looks terrible because it's trying to repeat frames but doesn't need to.

So you have to use something like eac3to to remove the pull-down flags (this doesn't actually alter the stream, it just removes meta flags, I think).

This allows applications to see the content as 1080p @ 24fps instead of 30fps, and it plays properly.

I guess if MediaInfo says the stream is 1080i30 and it looks fine when played and the tv says 1080i 30fps, the answer is that it's actually hard-coded to 30fps and interlaced.

Does that make sense?
post #2613 of 2773
Is Win 7/32 supported? I am trying to use a new computer running the Vista 32 d basic non-Sage version of the R5000. I can control the DVR622 just fine but when recording I get all errors and the file size remains zero. The computer does see the R5000 and loaded the driver without any problems. The buffer bar goes fully across as well - like it's saturated and it reports "waiting for stream".

My USB port is an NEC USB3 on the MB. I also tried a UBS2 port on the MB with the same results.

Any ideas?

Note, the R5000 hardware was never tested before. Installed in 2009 but I have not gotten a suitable computer to use with it until now. However the DVR622 has been running fine all along with the mod installed.
post #2614 of 2773
I only use XP with my R5000 but I have seen similar behavior when using USB on the motherboard. My solution was to get a PCI USB card. The R5000 web site says to use the Vista version with Win 7 so that is probably not the cause of your problem.
John
post #2615 of 2773
It definitely should work with it. However, you might have the same issue I did with the system tray acting strange. Can you confirm that the channel you tune into to record actually has visible video when you hook up your DVR622 to a TV? Can you try other channels to see if they have the same result?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Is Win 7/32 supported? I am trying to use a new computer running the Vista 32 d basic non-Sage version of the R5000. I can control the DVR622 just fine but when recording I get all errors and the file size remains zero. The computer does see the R5000 and loaded the driver without any problems. The buffer bar goes fully across as well - like it's saturated and it reports "waiting for stream".

My USB port is an NEC USB3 on the MB. I also tried a UBS2 port on the MB with the same results.

Any ideas?

Note, the R5000 hardware was never tested before. Installed in 2009 but I have not gotten a suitable computer to use with it until now. However the DVR622 has been running fine all along with the mod installed.
post #2616 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKANET View Post

It definitely should work with it. However, you might have the same issue I did with the system tray acting strange. Can you confirm that the channel you tune into to record actually has visible video when you hook up your DVR622 to a TV? Can you try other channels to see if they have the same result?

Yes The 722 works fine including control from the R5000, i.e. I can change channels on the R5000 app.
post #2617 of 2773
Does the R5000 have a BDA driver?

I'm wondering if it will work with For The Record DVB application...

Also, how difficult is the self install? $700 for a premodified VIP-211 is quite steep...
post #2618 of 2773
It doesnt have a BDA driver. SageTV is the only application that completely supports the R5000. It's also, in my opinion still the best PC based media center solution out currently. Bad news is it's not sold anymore. So, you would have to buy a copy from ebay.

It definitely needs the expertise and equipment of a electronics soldering specialist. It's not as easy as modding game consoles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofakng View Post

Does the R5000 have a BDA driver?

I'm wondering if it will work with For The Record DVB application...

Also, how difficult is the self install? $700 for a premodified VIP-211 is quite steep...
post #2619 of 2773
Thanks for the information...

Does MythTV also support it? (it looks like it does)

That's too bad about the BDA driver...
post #2620 of 2773
It's like the Windows Media Center support.. nobody has gotten it to actually work sucessfully. There has been a some people have have spent a lot of time trying to make it work in other apps; but, nobody has reported success. Which DVB software do you use? I use DVBDream as a network encoder (just like the R5000) which feeds into SageTV as well for my DVB-S2 channels. I actually got into using DVB-S2 thanks to another R5000 user in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofakng View Post

Thanks for the information...

Does MythTV also support it? (it looks like it does)

That's too bad about the BDA driver...
post #2621 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKANET View Post

It definitely should work with it. However, you might have the same issue I did with the system tray acting strange. Can you confirm that the channel you tune into to record actually has visible video when you hook up your DVR622 to a TV? Can you try other channels to see if they have the same result?

Got it. My bad. I had the "DA" and "CLK" leads swapped on the self install.
post #2622 of 2773
I fully intend to try this myself but has anyone successfully dumped an MPEG4 stream to DVHS and brought it back into the PC for playback? IOW, just using the DVHS is a bit bucket. I realize the internal decoders in the JVC decks are MPEG2 only. And for this to be feasible, you would need the DVHS to be able to playback in real time over 1394. Dumping back to disk to play is too much hassel

I know some may think this is backwards technology but lets keep in mind a DF300 tape holds 31GB. That's still far more economical than disk.

And yes I have plenty of decks, like 15 of them, to keep the format going for myself
post #2623 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kei Clark View Post

I have to say that I was not as familiar with the Sage, but from what I have read on the MPC review, it sounds like a great device for use with tuners and recorders. I probably should not have jumped in here, and I would recommend the Sage to Glimmie.

You're right that the TVIX is more expensive, the differences such as SATA drive bay and VFD display will add to the cost. The M6600N is a relatively new model and needs some firmware work to get it up to the level of the more mature Sigma products that has now been out for 1-2 years, but it starts with a stable platform based on more powerful processor. I've been an avid Dish/R5000 user for a few years but with degradation of the broadcast resolution, I'm now moving more towards ripped conent, which is coloring my comments.

Ok this post is from 11/2009 and obviously the two devices here, the Sage HD200 and the TVIX M6600N, are long out of production. So what is the best device to play my Dish MPEG4 files. I will need Ethernet connectivity. How about the TViX S1?

BTW, Windows 7 Media Player seems to play the streams flawlessly.
post #2624 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Ok this post is from 11/2009 and obviously the two devices here, the Sage HD200 and the TVIX M6600N, are long out of production. So what is the best device to play my Dish MPEG4 files. I will need Ethernet connectivity. How about the TViX S1?

BTW, Windows 7 Media Player seems to play the streams flawlessly.

The M6600N is not really out of production. We still carry the M6620 dual tuner player as well as the S1 which uses the same chip with slightly different configuration because the S1 has a lower retail price.

If you're even considering DVHS, don't. As file storage and playback device, any of the TViX, even the most ancient units are far more superior to tape options. I have 3 DVHS tape decks that have not been turned on for almost 4 years.

The TViX (M6620N, S1, and now the new Android based Xroid A1) will play R5000 files whether its MPEG2 or 4 as well as practically any other format out there, and it's easy to configure for use in an R5000 environment.
post #2625 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

I know some may think this is backwards technology but lets keep in mind a DF300 tape holds 31GB. That's still far more economical than disk.

Kei's right, you can get almost 100 times that much capacity for ~$300.
post #2626 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Kei's right, you can get almost 100 times that much capacity for ~$300.

Yeah bad idea! I just realized I can install a BD-R drive and the media is roughly $1.50 per 25GB disk. Sure beats the old $7.00 per DVHS - and good luck finding it anymore.
post #2627 of 2773
Try 80 cents for a 25GB disc at Micro Center, or $200 this week for a 4TB drive at Best Buy. 5TB drives are right around the corner. It's never been a better time for storage costs, and there's probably no end in sight. In a couple of years, we may have super fast TB size SSD storage at an affordable level.
post #2628 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Yeah bad idea! I just realized I can install a BD-R drive and the media is roughly $1.50 per 25GB disk. Sure beats the old $7.00 per DVHS - and good luck finding it anymore.

Drill an extra hole in an S-VHS tape and you can record D-VHS on it. I went that route for a while, until I saw that big old ugly VHS collection start to eat up my shelf space all over again. I said, "That's it - no more of this. I'll just wait for something better." It didn't take too long.
post #2629 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Drill an extra hole in an S-VHS tape and you can record D-VHS on it. I went that route for a while, until I saw that big old ugly VHS collection start to eat up my shelf space all over again. I said, "That's it - no more of this. I'll just wait for something better." It didn't take too long.

Well my DVHS library is just over 500 tapes. I do plan to dump into a server once storage gets cheap enough.
post #2630 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Well my DVHS library is just over 500 tapes. I do plan to dump into a server once storage gets cheap enough.

I have my over 600-disc Blu-ray collection on an UnRaid server, somewhere around 30TB or so and growing. My latest 2TB drives cost me $59 each. The same server has all my photos, music and HD and 3D video footage. God help me if fire or flood hits, but that's true of any collection stored where someone lives. Storage is dirt cheap and getting cheaper every day. It can also make access much faster and more convenient than digging up physical media. I don't ever want to go back to those days.

Just sayin'.
post #2631 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I have my over 600-disc Blu-ray collection on an UnRaid server, somewhere around 30TB or so and growing. My latest 2TB drives cost me $59 each. The same server has all my photos, music and HD and 3D video footage. God help me if fire or flood hits, but that's true of any collection stored where someone lives. Storage is dirt cheap and getting cheaper every day. It can also make access much faster and more convenient than digging up physical media. I don't ever want to go back to those days.

Just sayin'.

Well, actually, there is a catastrophe going on in Thailand and hard drive prices have shot up, so the prices you'll see this winter won't be representative of the norm. The 2TB drives I purchased three weeks ago at $70 is now going for $200. Despite that price, when you move data off the tapes and enjoy the convenience of being able to browse all your movies in one directory, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.
post #2632 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I have my over 600-disc Blu-ray collection on an UnRaid server, somewhere around 30TB or so and growing. My latest 2TB drives cost me $59 each. The same server has all my photos, music and HD and 3D video footage. God help me if fire or flood hits, but that's true of any collection stored where someone lives. Storage is dirt cheap and getting cheaper every day. It can also make access much faster and more convenient than digging up physical media. I don't ever want to go back to those days.

Just sayin'.

I still see some drawbacks to a server based system:

1) All those drives spinning but you are only watching one thing at a time. Heat, noise, power, etc.
2) HDDs have a finite life span.
3) You should back up all material to something like BR-R.

As a typical movie is 100 minutes, I don't see the problem with manually loading a BD-R each time.

I am trying to justify a media server in the 25TB size. But it just doesn't make sense over a physical BD-R library which you need anyway for backup.

Comments?
post #2633 of 2773
If you have kids, the life span of a hard drive is MUCH greater than that of a physical disc.
post #2634 of 2773
It goes to show, there's an ideal playback/backup solution for each person... just not the same solution for everyone.

Personally, I buy BDR50 discs only for portable bluray (such as taking a movie to watch at friends house). I never take the original disc. I still haven't gone through my 20pack from last Christmas. However, playback/backup is all on HDD's.
post #2635 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

I still see some drawbacks to a server based system:

1) All those drives spinning but you are only watching one thing at a time. Heat, noise, power, etc.
2) HDDs have a finite life span.
3) You should back up all material to something like BR-R.

As a typical movie is 100 minutes, I don't see the problem with manually loading a BD-R each time.

I am trying to justify a media server in the 25TB size. But it just doesn't make sense over a physical BD-R library which you need anyway for backup.

Comments?

UnRaid spins down the drives after a period of inactivity. You can always shut down the server if you don't anticipate using it for a while.

When a hard drive fails in a RAID system, you replace it. The array rebuilds and you're back in business. You lose a single hard drive to parity, and it protects 19 other drives of the same capacity. I've had a few hard drive failures while using UnRaid, but have never lost a single file because of it.

BD-Rs have a finite life span, but when they fail they're gone. BD-R single layer discs (25GB each) cost about a buck most of the time, but the vast majority of commercial Blu-ray discs won't fit a single layer. Double layer Blu-ray discs typically cost $6 or more. The cheapest I've ever seen them is $3.95 each. A Blu-ray iso stored on a server can be used to burn a new disc.

Using software such as MyMovies, you can organize your entire disc collection for fast access. A natural disaster or theft can wipe out any collection. I just don't see the advantage in having physical discs anymore. The server is a better security blanket for me.

I can't argue against the idea of manually inserting discs into a Blu-ray player, except to say that I'm too lazy. It's a matter of choice.

The disaster that's affected the supply of hard drives will end eventually, and prices will start to drop again. I don't see that changing.
post #2636 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

1) All those drives spinning but you are only watching one thing at a time. Heat, noise, power, etc.

True, but the volume of data has no bearing on wear, that's kind of a linear view....and depending on what type solution you choose, there are ways to achieve stable/reliable operation. For instance, my ReadyNas can spin down the hard drives when they are not actively in use, it's slower waking it up from that state, but with the excellent RAID configuration where the last time I lost a drive, it recovered beautifully on the replacement, it certainly is a compellng upgrade to a tape/disk based system. And data management is infinitely simpler, especially moving it.

Quote:


2) HDDs have a finite life span.
3) You should back up all material to something like BR-R.

True, and if you are prone to be careful, you'll want to maintain a duplicated back-up of all your files on additional hard disks. The usability of your "library" on hard disks is pretty dramatic change from a tape/disc based system.

Quote:


As a typical movie is 100 minutes, I don't see the problem with manually loading a BD-R each time.

We'll see.

Quote:


I am trying to justify a media server in the 25TB size. But it just doesn't make sense over a physical BD-R library which you need anyway for backup.

Comments?

If you have tapes as a back up, you can mix your back-up options, but the server is more than just storage, so be more creative in your justifications.
post #2637 of 2773
Yikes, for a moment, I thought my name was Joe.
post #2638 of 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kei Clark View Post

Yikes, for a moment, I thought my name was Joe.

That would probably be spelled Jo Clark, Kei. If you were Jo Clark, the name would get an immediate image upgrade. Yikes, you're beautiful. (Unless you're put off by such comments, in which case I deny saying it. )
post #2639 of 2773
Anyone that gets offended by that needs to have their heads examined. Thanks.
post #2640 of 2773
Whew! I feel better.
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