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post #20581 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by heywood jablomy View Post

When he intervened to save Charlie the first time (with the golf club as a lightning rod) he might have seen that as a glimpse of a future event, but how could he have seen Claire in the water and Charlie going to try and save her, since that wouldn't have happened if Charlie had already been killed by the lightning? Unless he is continuously in a loop of some sort, moving back and forth. This is the basic problem with the theory of time travel.

It can be "explained" by the device they used in the movie Frequency. That is, parallel memories. Each time Desmond changes an event, he "remembers" the new timeline.

Which, as I agree, makes time travel stories the impossibilities they are. They make your head hurt if you think about the paradoxes too much.
post #20582 of 23096
It would have to be something different than what is typically considered time travel. Premonitions are too "Charmed", but it could be some sort of rift he entered where his brain is still affected and it can continually see glimpses of future events (continuously updated).
post #20583 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by heywood jablomy View Post

When he intervened to save Charlie the first time (with the golf club as a lightning rod) he might have seen that as a glimpse of a future event, but how could he have seen Claire in the water and Charlie going to try and save her, since that wouldn't have happened if Charlie had already been killed by the lightning? Unless he is continuously in a loop of some sort, moving back and forth. This is the basic problem with the theory of time travel.

The device energy could have given him multiple flashes of different timelines. The purpose of the Dharma project was to change a future event. So it could be that the remote viewing device allows the scientists to view different theoretical timelines based on changes made in the present.

Remote viewing could also be another reason for the Clockwork Orange room. The Others could have been training the kid to access that information.

For all we know all future events on the island have already been viewed and recorded. The files stored in a vault somewhere, Desmond got a burst of that stored information. And the futility of the experiment and finally realization Dharma scientists couldn't change the future is the reason the bunkers were abandoned. The Others could be those who didn't want to leave for their own safety or stayed to continue to try and change the future doomsday event.

I don't know. I'm just making this up as I go.

You know, like the producers.
post #20584 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnis View Post

I think the rating slide is pretty easy to figure out....the 10pm start time sucks. I used to make a point of watching this live everytime, but now its TIVO time.

DVR time for me here, too...

And we'll never be counted in Neilsen statistics because they know time-shifters with DVRs skip the commercials, and ratings are all about product delivery (viewers) to advertizers (the real customers of television broadcasting).

So, until the majority of viewers are time-shifting and advertizers change to still frames that are visible during Fast Forward or 30-second slip and Neilsen starts counting delayed viewing, the official ratings won't show how many people are actually watching the show, only how many are exposed to the ads during breaks.

~Dan
post #20585 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

Actually I have seen many more parallels in more shows recently than the possibly one every year or two I would see in the past.

I think that's just writers running out of original ideas, like in sit-coms you'll frequently see scenarios that played out in other sit-coms years ago.
post #20586 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnis View Post

I think the rating slide is pretty easy to figure out....the 10pm start time sucks. I used to make a point of watching this live everytime, but now its TIVO time.

I think a lot of viewers already watched with a DVR, so I don't buy into that. In the earlier episodes, there was a lot of freeze-framing and going back to re-watch stuff. I think the only thing that's changed is how long of a time shift people are doing. While I used to watch the show later that night, now I watch the following day.

What they need to do is start capitalizing on the DVR use again. How many people have noticed anything significant to freeze frame lately? How many times have you said, "I think we need to watch that again?" The producers used to cleverly place elements into the images that could only be seen if you had a DVR - and that was a lot of fun.

How many posts of this thread were devoted to talking about the few visible frames of the Dharma tattoo on the shark tail? How much discussion did the scan ol' Smokey did on EKE generate? How many screen shots were previously posted showing the use of the numbers? The closest thing we got last week was Desmond doing a double take when he heard related numbers.

This show can survive as a DVR show. It was one at its most popular timeframe. They need to give people a reason to DVR it other than it's just late.
post #20587 of 23096
My DVR'ed Lost episode dropped about 5 seconds of sound about every 3 minutes. Too infuriating to watch, so I watched it online instead. Checked with friends, who all also have Austin Time Warner HD, and all experienced the same problem.

Was this a local Time Warner thing here in Austin, or did others experience it?
post #20588 of 23096
Must have been a local issue.
post #20589 of 23096
I think that Desmond seeing Charlie in his flashback was an indicator (a subtle one that will have a reveal later) that the future and past could be altered. As the lady was telling Desmond he had a role to play and that he couldn't alter the future, Charlie was showing him that you can take an alternate path.

Charlie should have been in Driveshaft making millions and hooked on drugs but instead he was a street musician playing for tips and speaking against drug use.

As for him playing an Oasis song, (this is far out there), maybe Oasis got the contract that Driveshaft would have gotten (fighting/feuding brothers with drug use issues) so instead of playing his own songs, he's playing theirs.
post #20590 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbradway View Post

Desmond wasn't dreaming. He's timeshifting and it's happening to him since the hatch implosion. Last night's story was about his first trip to the past. As he begins to learn where he is and how he has a chance to "do it right" the second time, he gets interfered with by the jewlery store lady. She is trying to convice Desmond that fate will always have it's way sooner or later. But fate doesn't need an advocate and her attempt to sway Desmond into believing he has no control is going to be exposed as bogus sooner or later. We also know that Desmond has time shifted to the future because he knows about saving Charlie twice now as well as Locke's speech.

Your thoughts regarding the purpose of the jewelry store lady's character reminded me of another character in the flashback - his friend (with presumably a science background) with whom he had the discussion at the bar regarding what he thought was happening. As best I can recall, we weren't shown what Des said, but his friend's reaction and speech saying that time travel wasn't possible inferred that Des believed he was time traveling.

My question is the underlying purpose of the friend character: was he a benign element, or did he know much more than he was admitting (ala the jewelry store lady), and his purpose was to dissuade Des from the time travel angle? Heck if I know!
post #20591 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoot13 View Post

I think that Desmond seeing Charlie in his flashback was an indicator (a subtle one that will have a reveal later) that the future and past could be altered. As the lady was telling Desmond he had a role to play and that he couldn't alter the future, Charlie was showing him that you can take an alternate path.

Charlie should have been in Driveshaft making millions and hooked on drugs but instead he was a street musician playing for tips and speaking against drug use.

As for him playing an Oasis song, (this is far out there), maybe Oasis got the contract that Driveshaft would have gotten (fighting/feuding brothers with drug use issues) so instead of playing his own songs, he's playing theirs.

Why do we think that Charlie wasn't more recently in Driveshaft than the flashback? Desmond spent three years punching in the numbers in the computer--Charlie's rise and fall could easily have happened within that time period. Who knows, Charlie could have "broken through" to megastardom the very next day...

(One thing, though--when Charlie was visiting his brother in Australia to talk him back into the band, am I remembering correctly that his brother had kids?--and what were their ages?)
post #20592 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

Why do we think that Charlie wasn't more recently in Driveshaft than the flashback? Desmond spent three years punching in the numbers in the computer--Charlie's rise and fall could easily have happened within that time period. Who knows, Charlie could have "broken through" to megastardom the very next day...

(One thing, though--when Charlie was visiting his brother in Australia to talk him back into the band, am I remembering correctly that his brother had kids?--and what were their ages?)

That's the way I took it. Charlie was busking before he was in Driveshaft.
post #20593 of 23096
Various people have punched in the numbers every 108 minutes, apparently for years, to "save the world." But when it wasn't punched in and went into overload, metal objects flying everywhere, there was still a magic super deluxe failsafe button to blow the whole damn thing up and avert whatever horrible threat the overloaded machinery posed to the island and beyond.

Why not just blow the thing up years ago and be done with this silly number-punching nonsense?
post #20594 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxman View Post

I think that's just writers running out of original ideas, like in sit-coms you'll frequently see scenarios that played out in other sit-coms years ago.

That is so true. Yet, with LOST, I think the story was well planned from the beginning. This time shift, time lost, lost time, time travel thing, whatever it is, was somewhat evident in season one. We just had not seen it from Desmonds point of view that far back. But, remember when Jack and Desmond met in the stadium? Desmond told Jack that he would fix the woman he was worrying about, as if he foreknew the outcome. And didn't Jack ask Desmond where are you from, and Desmond replyed something like; "from the future, brotha"? And when Kelvin and Sayid were parting in the war flashbacks, didn't Kelvin tell Sayid that he would need the skills he learn there in the future? As if he knew what Sayid's future was.

There may be other examples, but those two, from a ways back in the story, tell us that at least two of the people who pushed the button for a time, experience some sort of time warp phenomenon....Or not.
post #20595 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddR View Post

Various people have punched in the numbers every 108 minutes, apparently for years, to "save the world." But when it wasn't punched in and went into overload, metal objects flying everywhere, there was still a magic super deluxe failsafe button to blow the whole damn thing up and avert whatever horrible threat the overloaded machinery posed to the island and beyond.

Why not just blow the thing up years ago and be done with this silly number-punching nonsense?

The general opinion was the machine stopped something from blowing up by keeping it contained on the island and so "saving the world".

But what if the device wasn't built to contain something dangerous but to do something positive? When Inman introduced the device to Desmond all he flippantly said was that he was "saving the world."

The bunker device could have been part of something like a folding@home system. It was built to calculate or change the doomsday outcome predicted by the Valenzetti equation. So by entering the numbers it keeps the device running. Either while it's active it keeps the future disaster event from occurring, or it's ongoing purpose is to eventually calculate a way to prevent it.

Keep entering the numbers, and you keep the machine going. Stop the machine and it cannot be used to avoid the disaster.

Now they've blown part of it, does that mean they have destroyed the whole device or just reduced it's ability? Other bunkers could still be keeping the device running but with a limited capacity.
post #20596 of 23096
Something that I found amusing from a couple of episodes back. When Juliette was being recruited, she was told there was a position for her in Portland, then after ex-hubby was run over by a bus, they admitted that it was "not exactly Portland". What an understandment!
post #20597 of 23096
Watch Jack's face when he realizes Benry lied to both Juliette and himself. Neither of them are going home.
post #20598 of 23096
Haven't seen this "LOST" thread (about the time slot) mentioned. I just found it myself, so I presume others may not know about it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=760351
post #20599 of 23096
I think the producers made plenty of mistakes to contribute to the ratings decline, but honestly I believe that a show like Lost is never going to make it much beyond 3-4 seasons before people start walking away in droves, in fact the erosion starts after season one is over. There's a core of us that love Lost and all it's aspects, and group that is much less committed.

I'm reminded of a Stephen King quote talking about how a great novel is like a great love affair, and a short story is like a brief fling. Well, Lost is like a great novel, and there is always a section of people looking for the one night stand. If it doesn't end neatly after one season, they wander off in search of a new thrill. Wait and see if Heroes doesn't start to erode in Season 2.

It's just the nature of the beast. If only there were some way to convince networks that the erosion will stop and eventually they'll have a solid core audience that will give them dependable ratings for long haul--if we know for a fact that the story will be allowed to play out.
post #20600 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalierlwt View Post

I'm reminded of a Stephen King quote talking about how a great novel is like a great love affair, and a short story is like a brief fling. Well, Lost is like a great novel, and there is always a section of people looking for the one night stand. If it doesn't end neatly after one season, they wander off in search of a new thrill. Wait and see if Heroes doesn't start to erode in Season 2.

Yes, I have a friend like that. He was totally absorbed in everything Lost during its first season. Loved every episode. Then come the season finale not every one of his questions was answered, he was done with it. Never watched again. Declared it a "piece of sh--" show and a huge waste of his time. For some reason, he honestly expected everything to tie up in a neat little bow at the end of the first season. Now he makes fun of me for continuing to watch it: "They're in WHAT season and you still don't know why Locke was crippled?! How can you watch that crap? Worst Show Ever!!"

He's currently in love with Heroes and I see the same pattern forming.
post #20601 of 23096
I'm still a Lost fan. But if it goes on another couple years without any answers I could see myself drifting away. I really hope they do have some way of tying all this together.

- Tom
post #20602 of 23096
I'm confident they have the complete story in mind and a plan to tie it all together when the time comes. Thing is, when the questions start to be answered, with no new mysteries introduced, the end of the story will come quickly. LOST is like a long novel, slow to develope, but when you reach the end, it is done.

I'm a fan, also, and all caught up in the mystery and characters of the show. But, to be honest, I think I prefer the movie model where the story is told in a couple of hours. Or, maybe the mini series where the story is told in one season. LOST is different, though, and maybe that frustration is what keeps some of us hooked, and drives others away.
post #20603 of 23096
What I am beginning to realize is that Lost is actually starting to answer questions. I think that each piece that is given appears not to lead anywhere but it is my faith that looking back at each episode, each will fall into place and be apparent.

Take this last episode with Desmond. I think the final answer has something to do with the manipulation of time, so (if true) we have been fed an element of the answer already with Desmond. We still don't know the absolute reasons for everything, but we are given pieces and it is really up to us to piece it together. by the end, we should have enough pieces to know exactly what is happening on the island.

I still am one of those that will not miss an episode of Lost, and dissects it when I do watch it. The fun is the journey, not necessarily the destination. I have a feeling most people are going to be quite disappointed with the final reveal. (Hey, I learned from the X-files, which strung people along a lot worse than Lost is doing).
post #20604 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

...
Take this last episode with Desmond. I think the final answer has something to do with the manipulation of time, so (if true) we have been fed an element of the answer already with Desmond. We still don't know the absolute reasons for everything, but we are given pieces and it is really up to us to piece it together. by the end, we should have enough pieces to know exactly what is happening on the island...

Even though Daybreak didn't make it as a series, it got me wondering if it was no accident that ABC put in a "filler" show that had the element of time travel in it.

Of course, that would have meant that ABC, the producers of Lost and Daybreak would have all worked together to coordinate a brilliant programming move.

*Nah*
post #20605 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

The fun is the journey, not necessarily the destination.

Well put Steve. Same for me.
post #20606 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxman View Post

Well put Steve. Same for me.

+1 for me. I don't mind all the unanswered questions. My only issue is the questions haven't been as good lately.
post #20607 of 23096
Agree 100% - the current problem is lack of compelling questions raised, not lack of answers. If you look at 90% of the speculation early on, it was discussion of the possible answers for the questions raised.
post #20608 of 23096
I don't care about questions or answers. I just want something dramatic to happen beyond people being trapped in cages or just talking in a purposely evasive way just to sound mysterious.

Since the first season only Bernard has bothered to try and escape. Everyone else seems quite happy to sit on the beach and just do laundry.
post #20609 of 23096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

What I am beginning to realize is that Lost is actually starting to answer questions. I think that each piece that is given appears not to lead anywhere but it is my faith that looking back at each episode, each will fall into place and be apparent.

So what did I miss in the show (NOT any online games or anything) that explained what the numbers meant? It was such an integral part of many of the back stories and the main plot, but now has virtually disappeared from the the story line. If it WAS answered in an online game, do the writers expect the rest of us to just forget about that part of the story? I'm sure I've forgotten more than a few of the original questions - maybe they hope to bore us into forgetting more. There are also few characters left that I actually care about. I wonder who they'll kill next? It can't be Charlie - that would be too obvious. I'm still watching, but we'll see after this season.
post #20610 of 23096
don't know if this has been mentioned as there's hundreds of pages on here and I don;t read this until the Monday as we get the show on the Sunday after you guys.

I thought the people working on Lost were thorough with little details?
I also thought they were good with authenticity!

what was with the red phone boxes?
what was with the bobby on the beat?
what was with the weird sounding 1960's siren (that sounded like the Ghostbusters car!)?
what was with the really bad and obviously not authentic English accents?
what was with the people on the streets selling nuts or taking photos?

do Americans really think everyone here talks with a stupid 19th century cockney accent (don't get me started on The Simpsons!)? and think things haven't changed in 100 years (red phone boxes etc)?

and the main thing that bugged me, what was with the army poster and the huge spelling mistake of "Honor" - was that some sort of clue to anything?
the type was so big no one could miss it
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