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Phoenix, AZ - HDTV - Page 340

post #10171 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCat View Post

Beginning Tuesday, rumor has it that KSAZ FOX 10 will be available direct to mobile devices through MobiTV using the new ATSC M/H format. FOX network owned and operated stations are somewhat out ahead of the pack with this new technology. Those FOX O&O's on VHF frequencies will roll out first.

If "Tuesday" meant the 10th, then the rumor was incorrect. Neither of the Fox O&O stations (KSAZ 10 and KUTP 45) have an M/H feed yet. Perhaps next Tuesday?
post #10172 of 10855
Does anyone have any tips on what specific signals to tell a CSR rep to send in order to activate a CableCARD for Cox, Phoenix (Ceton InifiniTV) ? I know conventional wisdom seems to be to keep calling until you get a CSR that knows CableCARDs, but if anyone knows the sequence, I'd just as soon tell the CSR exactly what I need.

Is it:
CCV -> INIT -> HIT
or
INIT -> REFRESH -> CCV

or something else entirely ? It doesn't appear that Cox has a "CableCARD" hotline like Comcast does ...

Thanks!
post #10173 of 10855
Google search brought up 1-888-556-1193
post #10174 of 10855
I know, but unfortunately that's just their generic CSR pool and is not actually specific to CableCARDs ):
post #10175 of 10855
Unless someone here works support for Cox and is willing to out themselves, you're probably not going to get an exact answer. My friend with an HDHomeRun PRIME told Cox to just do whatever they do for a Tivo, and that worked. Shouldn't be any difference from one CableCard device to the next.
post #10176 of 10855
I jumped through hoops for a few days to get my HDHomeRun Prime up and running with Cox last August when they first came out. Field techs can barely deal with a Tivo, but if you just tell everyone you have a Tivo they'll at least follow their Tivo script instead of just telling you they don't support your device. I don't recall the exact command sequence we used, but we had to send init several times and I ended up having to wait about 30-40 minutes for it to finish updating, syncing, etc. Went through a few TAs and cablecards over the course of a few days. Once I got it up and running though, it's worked like a champ since. Night and day difference over the junk Cox boxes.

Call 1-877-820-8202. This is actually the number that Cox shows through their cablecard diag messages. I called this line and got the only Cablecard ace of all the Cox reps I dealt with. He was able to get me up and running and educate me on the nuances of having a cablecard on the Cox network.
post #10177 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by daidavel View Post

Does anyone have any tips on what specific signals to tell a CSR rep to send in order to activate a CableCARD for Cox, Phoenix (Ceton InifiniTV) ? I know conventional wisdom seems to be to keep calling until you get a CSR that knows CableCARDs, but if anyone knows the sequence, I'd just as soon tell the CSR exactly what I need.

Is it:
CCV -> INIT -> HIT
or
INIT -> REFRESH -> CCV

or something else entirely ? It doesn't appear that Cox has a "CableCARD" hotline like Comcast does ...

Thanks!

I have had a JVC cablecard HDTV connected to Cox since fall 07. What works for me is to unplug the TV for a minute and then plug it back in. This action causes my set to reset the cable card back to its 1996 state. Then I call Cox and request a cable box reset using their automated phone system. I wait and within an hour the card is rebooted to today's date and GMT time and it works as well as it is going to. If the signal levels are good I don't think Cox is capable of doing anything more. I have no idea how other cablecard devices work. I also have an HD STB on another set which receives more of the variety Pac channels then the CC set does.
post #10178 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhett View Post

If "Tuesday" meant the 10th, then the rumor was incorrect. Neither of the Fox O&O stations (KSAZ 10 and KUTP 45) have an M/H feed yet. Perhaps next Tuesday?

Well, yes. Perhaps. And, BTW, it is no longer perhaps, its a fact.

But since I posted the original post on Wednesday the 11th and began it with "Beginning Tuesday..." there probably should have been little confusion as to what date I was referencing.
post #10179 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

It's already up and running in Atlanta, which is on UHF.

- Trip

It's "already up and running" in a lot of places, and many may be aware of this. But this is the Phoenix reception forum, which is where we post information regarding what is happening with Phoenix reception.

My original post said this, which I stand by:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCat View Post

Beginning Tuesday, rumor has it that KSAZ FOX 10 will be available direct to mobile devices through MobiTV using the new ATSC M/H format. FOX network owned and operated stations are somewhat out ahead of the pack with this new technology. Those FOX O&O's on VHF frequencies will roll out first.

The last sentence refers to the sentence just before that, which is historically sort of how the written word often works. "First" does not refer to "first in the entire universe", but "first in the market we post here about", and also refers to "before they [FOX owned and operated stations, not FOX affiliates or other network affiliates] roll out the UHF frequencies". "Somewhat" also implies that KSAZ is not the absolute first on the planet to ever do this and will not be expecting to go into Guiness.

So there is your clarification; my apologies if my earlier post was confusing to you.

So here is where things are: KSAZ has content OTA on ATSC M/H, and it looks like KPNX will be next; they are currently sending an unmodulated (or black-modulated) M/H program stream within CH 15, meaning we should see content from them pretty quickly, would be my best guess.
post #10180 of 10855
With all due respect to your sarcastic response, your exact sentence was, "Those FOX O&O's on VHF frequencies will roll out first." How many FOX O&Os are there in Phoenix, exactly? I am only aware of two, KSAZ and KUTP. Only one of those two (KSAZ) is on VHF, yet despite the presence of only one, your sentence somehow describes multiple VHF channels owned and operated by FOX that will be launching Mobile DTV "first." The only way that sentence makes any sense at all is if you are referring to FOX O&Os in multiple markets.

In addition, the sentence you wrote prior to that says, "FOX network owned and operated stations are somewhat out ahead of the pack with this new technology." Since, as of my last request for data from my friend in the Phoenix market, neither KSAZ nor KUTP have M/H service(s) up and running, you are either a time traveler from the future who is noting the fact that KSAZ and/or KUTP is/are ahead of the pack by being in third place behind KPNX and KASW, or you actually were not constraining your comments to the Phoenix market and were referencing other markets where FOX actually is ahead of the pack.

I am quite familiar with the written word, in both historical and modern contexts. I am sorry that your use of it did not accurately convey your meaning to me.

- Trip
post #10181 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCat View Post

Well, yes. Perhaps. And, BTW, it is no longer perhaps, its a fact.

But since I posted the original post on Wednesday the 11th and began it with "Beginning Tuesday..." there probably should have been little confusion as to what date I was referencing.

Yup. Sometimes I make mistakes. It's a cross I must bear.
post #10182 of 10855
Are KSAZ and KUTP's mobile DTV channels encrypted? If they are not now, will they soon be?
post #10183 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

Are KSAZ and KUTP's mobile DTV channels encrypted? If they are not now, will they soon be?

So far, only KSAZ has an M/H feed, and it doesn't appear as encrypted to my transport stream read.

New info: Trip sent me enhanced transport streams, which if I'm reading right, shows KSAZ as unencrypted, but KPNX and KASW are now encrypted.
post #10184 of 10855
I just got a new channel map on my Media Center/CableCard combo with a boatload of new HD channels (HBOs, SHO, MAX, some others) but no programming yet. Anyone know when those are going live?
post #10185 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlatkins View Post

I just got a new channel map on my Media Center/CableCard combo with a boatload of new HD channels (HBOs, SHO, MAX, some others) but no programming yet. Anyone know when those are going live?

I contacted Cox AZ today and had them added to my Account (TiVo Premiere), Cox could not get them working today but did escalate the issue.

They are Live Now and Available, all Plus Package HD channels are MPEG4 (H.264)
They are Free with a CableCARD and corresponding SD Tier and an MPEG4 (H.264) capable tuner.
• TiVo Premier
• TiVo Premier XL
• TiVo Premier Elite
• Ceton InfiniTV 4/6 OCUR PC digital cable tuner
• SiliconDust HDHomerun Prime

Or Cox AZ is charging $10/mo for the Trio Whole Home DVR equipment, which is only $5/mo in all other markets.

1101 - Hub HD (Bonus Pak also required)
1133 - DIY HD (Variety Pak also required)
1134 - Cooking Channel HD (Variety Pak also required)
1161 - Outdoor Channel HD (Sports and Info Pak also required)
1900 - SWRV HD (Variety Pak also required)

1202 - HBO Signature HD
1203 - HBO Family HD
1204 - HBO Comedy HD
1205 - HBO Zone HD
1210 - HBO East HD
1211 - HBO2 East HD
1212 - HBO Latino HD

1222 - Action MAX HD
1223 - Thriller MAX HD
1225 - Cinamax East HD
1226 - More Max East HD
1230 - 5StarMAX HD

1242 - Showtime Showcase HD
1243 - Showtime Extreme HD
1251 - TMC Xtra HD

1263 - Starz East HD
1264 - Starz Kids & Family HD
1265 - Starz Cinema HD
1266 - Starz Comedy HD

1210 - HBOEHD (H.264) Channel Diagnostic Menu below
LL
post #10186 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

Are KSAZ and KUTP's mobile DTV channels encrypted? If they are not now, will they soon be?

No (not), and yes (will be). And I don't think KUTP is quite in the family yet.

You can get the unencrypted on a hodgepodge, but don't go get one; they are planning on an encrypted service you have to subscribe to. Not sure if that is the smartest business plan, but we'll see. Live TV on a tablet might be OK if free and ad supported, but paying for it would not be unless they include some real features, such as recording, DVR trick play, enhanced features, etc. Not much from Mobi about this yet.

You should be seeing about 2.75 (?) which did not cause KSAZ to lower their main bit rate.
post #10187 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX View Post

I contacted Cox AZ today and had them added to my Account (TiVo Premiere), Cox could not get them working today but did escalate the issue.

They are Live Now and Available, all Plus Package HD channels are MPEG4 (H.264)
They are Free with a CableCARD and corresponding SD Tier and an MPEG4 (H.264) capable tuner.

Or Cox AZ is charging $10/mo for the Trio Whole Home DVR equipment, which is only $5/mo in all other markets.

1101 - Hub HD (Bonus Pak also required)
1133 - DIY HD (Variety Pak also required)
1134 - Cooking Channel HD (Variety Pak also required)
1161 - Outdoor Channel HD (Sports and Info Pak also required)
1900 - SWRV HD (Variety Pak also required)

So we now have the new 8642 DVRs in the wild and the Plus channels activated, when can we get this whole home thing installed/activated?

I'll give Cox a call tomorrow and see what can be done. I've been pondering a Tivo Elite all week!
post #10188 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCat View Post

No (not), and yes (will be). And I don't think KUTP is quite in the family yet.

You can get the unencrypted on a hodgepodge, but don't go get one; they are planning on an encrypted service you have to subscribe to. Not sure if that is the smartest business plan, but we'll see. Live TV on a tablet might be OK if free and ad supported, but paying for it would not be unless they include some real features, such as recording, DVR trick play, enhanced features, etc. Not much from Mobi about this yet.

You should be seeing about 2.75 (?) which did not cause KSAZ to lower their main bit rate.

Thanks. I was told by some of the big mobile DTV backers at CES that the encrypted stuff will normally be free, but require registration in order to get the keys to unlock them. The new devices supporting encrypted services all have internet connections, which will be used for phoning home viewing statistics. Still seems like a dumb business model when no one wanted it when it was completely free with no hoops to jump through, but a lot of the business decisions in this industry seem to have little basis in logic, so maybe it's just par for the course.
post #10189 of 10855
[quote=Bryan_CoxPHX;21524810]I contacted Cox AZ today and had them added to my Account (TiVo Premiere), Cox could not get them working today but did escalate the issue.

Cool, thanks. Guess I'll be calling today and see what's going on with them since I can't tune them yet.
post #10190 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by DasRaven View Post

So we now have the new 8642 DVRs in the wild and the Plus channels activated, when can we get this whole home thing installed/activated?

I'll give Cox a call tomorrow and see what can be done. I've been pondering a Tivo Elite all week!

I'm really on the fence of what to do as well with regards to a DVR. I need more than 2 tuners, 3 is great, four even better.

The majority of my recording is the Big 4 broadcasting networks so I decided to try out a PVR-M6620N this week. It only has two tuners, but it can supplement the crappy Cox DVR. It is actually a really sharp device, you can pop in any hard drive you want and exchange them back and forth as they fill up. It makes a great media player as well. The problem is the program guide. It uses PSIP info so you are lucky to have 12 hours of info, let alone the 7 days we are used to with Cox. So programming recordings is in the dark ages like a VCR's. But the price is right, $271 with shipping to AZ and no monthly fee. I am wondering if it is going to be good enough to record those shows that I can't record on the Cox DVR because I only have two tuners.

Then you bring up the Elite. I have been salivating over that one for a couple of months. Do I spend the $500 to get it, get 4 tuners and 2TB of storage to replace Cox? I'm stuck with a $20 + CableCard monthly fee but that is not much more than the Cox DVR fees for a much better product.

Then you have DirecTV and their 5 tuner DVR. Same price or cheaper then Cox and more channels. How could someone not jump at it? Problem is I have 4 TV's in the house that are connected directly to the Cox coax. With D* I would have to have receivers and pay monthly lease fees for TV's that are rarely used.

I am underwhelmed with what Cox has coming. I don't need the Whole House feature, its still only has two tuners and whoopee they increase the drive space to 500GB. To top it off if you don't do Whole House you only get to use 160GB.
post #10191 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

Thanks. I was told by some of the big mobile DTV backers at CES that the encrypted stuff will normally be free, but require registration in order to get the keys to unlock them. The new devices supporting encrypted services all have internet connections, which will be used for phoning home viewing statistics. Still seems like a dumb business model when no one wanted it when it was completely free with no hoops to jump through, but a lot of the business decisions in this industry seem to have little basis in logic, so maybe it's just par for the course.

We are oddly somewhat on the same page. No one will pay for mobile access to free OTA TV, so that aspect had better be at no cost or they are looking down the same road as Flo TV and others piled on the dustbin of history.

All I have heard is that there are 2 phones that can get this at present; neither may even be out yet. What did you learn about user devices at CES? Will there be dongles available (hopefully with a 30-pin iPad connector)?

My best guess it that the interface and sign-up will manifest as an app. That would be the friendliest way to reach new customers and would make registration simple (hopefully). I would be pleased if the iPad 3 had the M/H radio and decoder built in, but not at all surprised if it does not (I'll go out on a limb and guess 4 or 5:1 not as the likely odds). I guess registration is for VOD/PPV and for collecting data on subs for targeted marketing, but then I am a born skeptic.
post #10192 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpcgeek View Post

I'm really on the fence of what to do as well with regards to a DVR. I need more than 2 tuners, 3 is great, four even better.

The majority of my recording is the Big 4 broadcasting networks so I decided to try out a PVR-M6620N this week. It only has two tuners, but it can supplement the crappy Cox DVR. It is actually a really sharp device, you can pop in any hard drive you want and exchange them back and forth as they fill up. It makes a great media player as well. The problem is the program guide. It uses PSIP info so you are lucky to have 12 hours of info, let alone the 7 days we are used to with Cox. So programming recordings is in the dark ages like a VCR's. But the price is right, $271 with shipping to AZ and no monthly fee. I am wondering if it is going to be good enough to record those shows that I can't record on the Cox DVR because I only have two tuners.

Then you bring up the Elite. I have been salivating over that one for a couple of months. Do I spend the $500 to get it, get 4 tuners and 2TB of storage to replace Cox? I'm stuck with a $20 + CableCard monthly fee but that is not much more than the Cox DVR fees for a much better product.

Then you have DirecTV and their 5 tuner DVR. Same price or cheaper then Cox and more channels. How could someone not jump at it? Problem is I have 4 TV's in the house that are connected directly to the Cox coax. With D* I would have to have receivers and pay monthly lease fees for TV's that are rarely used.

I am underwhelmed with what Cox has coming. I don't need the Whole House feature, its still only has two tuners and whoopee they increase the drive space to 500GB. To top it off if you don't do Whole House you only get to use 160GB.

King, you should take a look at what DISH is up to lately. I have never been a big fan (well, I was until they chased me away with their incompetence after 8 years and DirecTV offered the HD DTivo) but they have a new concept that seems to make more and more sense every time I think about it.

Just go to their home page (sort of difficult not to get redirected to their sign-up page) and search for "Hopper Joey". Hopper is a whole home DVR and Joey is a remote box for viewing. IOW, it is a whole-home server/client concept, with a ridiculous naming convention.

What sets this apart? Instead of demuxing pre-HDD it can record an entire transponder and then demux at playback. This means that if channels are sent the way spot beams are under DBS, where 4 or more channels are combined into a single multiple program transport stream, one tuner can record all 4 channels at once.

DISH has leveraged this by placing their LIL local spot beam channels for ABC, CBS, FOX, and NBC on the same transponder in most LIL markets. Then they use a feature called "prime time anytime (?)" to auto-block-record all of prime time from those four channels every night.

They then save those programs for 8 days and allow you to transfer them from an otherwise unavailable partition to a user partition which is 1 TB if you need to keep any particular program more than 8 days (a TB will hold about 235 hours of HD if MPEG-4 from DBS, and you'd be lucky to get 20 hours of MPEG-2 HD on a 160 GB). I think it has to do this in real time in the background, so if you want to save multiple programs it probably has to put them in a queue. The "Hopper" partition is also 1 TB although keeping all of big-4 prime for 8 days should not take more than 500 GB, assuming MPEG-4 and that my math is correct, but it appears they want to push a lot of movies to that partition so they are available on demand as well.

It's a really interesting concept. The recorder has 3 tuners so up to 6 programs can be recorded during prime and probably outside of prime (2 programs conventionally on 2 of the tuners and 4 programs as an MPTS on the other for the big 4 nets only). This will really go a long way towards making conflicts a thing of the past, and casual big-4 prime viewing as simple as on-demand. I can't wait for DirecTV to steal this idea. Especially if they take it to its logical conclusion and group the 4 most recorded CONUS channels (USA, TNT, FX, Syfy ?) on the same transponder and the 4 next-most-recorded channels on another. Even if they just do that with 4 channels, now you're talking up to 10 recordings at once of the 8 most-recorded channels plus any two other channels on a 4-tuner DVR, and very few potential conflicts. Cable can't really do that, or compete with that.

Also, you might check out the Channel Master DVRs which are available on Amazon and elsewhere.
post #10193 of 10855
I saw Dish @ CES! The Hopper and Joey, are house DVR (Hopper) and extra TV (Joey) units. You can have 4 TVs with 1 Hop and 3 J's.

Add a Slingbox $30 unit to have PC and mobile phone playback via an app. Right now an iPhone and Android app exist, but any phone browser can work as well.

If the Hopper has enough storage (the rumor is 2TB) and enough tuners I may switch from COX to that for TV. At least I can then get 1080p movies
post #10194 of 10855
I hear that K38IZ has dropped locally originated programming on two subs, and have replaced them with TUFF and TCN.
post #10195 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCat View Post

We are oddly somewhat on the same page. No one will pay for mobile access to free OTA TV, so that aspect had better be at no cost or they are looking down the same road as Flo TV and others piled on the dustbin of history.

All I have heard is that there are 2 phones that can get this at present; neither may even be out yet. What did you learn about user devices at CES? Will there be dongles available (hopefully with a 30-pin iPad connector)?

My best guess it that the interface and sign-up will manifest as an app. That would be the friendliest way to reach new customers and would make registration simple (hopefully). I would be pleased if the iPad 3 had the M/H radio and decoder built in, but not at all surprised if it does not (I'll go out on a limb and guess 4 or 5:1 not as the likely odds). I guess registration is for VOD/PPV and for collecting data on subs for targeted marketing, but then I am a born skeptic.

I didn't really get too much of a chance to look at the hardware, but Belkin is coming out with a dongle for Apple stuff - http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2...ile-dtv-dongle . You're more optimistic than I am for builtin support from Apple. Their goal is to sell stuff via iTunes, so anything that competes that they can possibly justify leaving out is gone. The Apple TV's inability to play back broadcast TV is a good example of this.
post #10196 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdvegas View Post

I hear that K38IZ has dropped locally originated programming on two subs, and have replaced them with TUFF and TCN.

The two subs dropped didn't have locally-produced programming, but the old public domain movies on 38.2 and the Christian videos on 38.4 are gone, having been replaced by Tuff TV and TCN, respectively.

I think the only thing K38IZ-D produces locally are those horrible used car long-format commercials and cheesy ads for lending services and the restaurant/lounge that Quinones owns - Adrian Quinones owns channel 38 also. K38IZ-D is locally owned and operates an office/studio in Ahwatukee.
post #10197 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhett View Post

The two subs dropped didn't have locally-produced programming, but the old public domain movies on 38.2 and the Christian videos on 38.4 are gone, having been replaced by Tuff TV and TCN, respectively.

I think the only thing K38IZ-D produces locally are those horrible used car long-format commercials and cheesy ads for lending services and the restaurant/lounge that Quinones owns - Adrian Quinones owns channel 38 also. K38IZ-D is locally owned and operates an office/studio in Ahwatukee.

By locally produced, I only meant not incoming from a major diginet; such as locally packaged.
post #10198 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

...You're more optimistic than I am for builtin support from Apple. Their goal is to sell stuff via iTunes, so anything that competes that they can possibly justify leaving out is gone. The Apple TV's inability to play back broadcast TV is a good example of this.

You make an excellent point that I had not considered. This means they would likely not do this to be out ahead of the rest, but might do it reluctantly if it became a glaring missing feature compared to the competition, which could add a year or more to them incorporating it.

On the other hand I would not expect AppleTV or any Roku-like device to do that, as it is just one more connection to the TV, and duplicating the OTA connection makes little sense regardless of any cannibalization theory.

Apple is a much bigger threat to cable and DBS than they are to OTA; a cord-cutter drops a $100 monthly charge from cable to move their TV needs to the $40 broadband charge they may already be paying for, and then uses a lot more broadband traffic than they expect you to. A DBS cord-cutter had no real broadband option on their service, and so leaves them for good. Apple's threat to OTA is in accelerating the inevitable move from the 1950's business model of a captive audience for TV and commercials when broadcast, to the convenience of VOD which kills that model (change is difficult and Apple accelerating inevitable change makes it more difficult).

I fear Apple's real "example" will be their rumored integration/simplification of the current various methods to get programming within one elegant Apple Siri-powered product including the display, which will be supposedly out this year. If anyone could do that...
post #10199 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlatkins View Post

Cool, thanks. Guess I'll be calling today and see what's going on with them since I can't tune them yet.

Did you ever call about the Plus Package channels. I have had them added to my account, but have never been able to get anyone who knows how to Authorize them. I have spoken with over 10 employees, had to educate most of them, and after a trip to a supervisor came back and said "Yes we can do that"

No attempt at pairing and repairing and removing and re-adding and sending hits has gotten them Authorized.
post #10200 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX View Post

Did you ever call about the Plus Package channels. I have had them added to my account, but have never been able to get anyone who knows how to Authorize them. I have spoken with over 10 employees, had to educate most of them, and after a trip to a supervisor came back and said "Yes we can do that"

No attempt at pairing and repairing and removing and re-adding and sending hits has gotten them Authorized.

My Tivo Elite shipped today. Here is hoping you get this figured out for us current and future Tivo owners.
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