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Phoenix, AZ - HDTV - Page 232

post #6931 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpreyes623 View Post

I'm in Peoria. 83rd and Union Hills

Here are the test channels that are currently coming in at my location:

980: CNN HD
981: Bravo HD
982: AMC HD
983: NFL Network TV HD
984: Planet Green HD
985: Sci-Fi HD
986: Spike TV HD
987: TLC HD
988: Travel HD
989: VS HD
990: HGTV HD
991: MTV HD

Currently not able to view.

I am getting the Same in Sun City now 103rd and TB but viewing from my Slingbox in California at the moment...

Alan
post #6932 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan480 View Post

Why does everyone love the OTA HD channels so much?? I would think that after spending 1500 on a TV that you would want as many HD channels as possible. I rarely watch 3,5,10,12,15....and always advise people to get an HD STB.


Just confused as to why someone would NOT want a HD STB??????? 6 channels vs what...45????

It depends on what content you value and at what quality. That argument may be true if there was no Bluray, DVD, game consoles, HTPC, Hulu, etc. Do I really want to pay that much more for service that gives me a few more HD channels that I actually want and pay monthly to rent a box for all my TVs? Not really. I'll settle for lesser quality on those channels because I already get the content and I can record and play back with my own gear and pay nothing extra. If all the channels were unencrypted and I could record with my own equipment, then that would be a different ballgame.
post #6933 of 10855
KTVK and KASW have now joined KPPX in the list of Phoenix stations killing analog on 2/17 no matter what our beloved Congress critters manage to do.
KTVK
KASW
post #6934 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

KTVK and KASW have now joined KPPX in the list of Phoenix stations killing analog on 2/17 no matter what our beloved Congress critters manage to do.

That surprises me, I thought 3 and 5 analog would stay up to the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

I did not know that, thanks for correcting me. In that case, yroca23 should be able to downgrade his/her service to Basic Cable only and still get the locals in HD. Assuming I understand things, that seems like a waste of a Tivo HD and Tivo service though, doesn't it? Doesn't the Tivo servcie provide the guide data?

They give listings for the cable channel number, without the cable card to map the channels it won't list the guide data, there is a long complaint thread about it on tivo forums. Tivo does support connecting an antenna and cable tv at the same time complete with guide data.
post #6935 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb7oeb View Post

That surprises me, I thought 3 and 5 analog would stay up to the end.

Belo filed to kill most of their analogs on 2/17, though for whatever reason, they haven't done so for their stations in Texas, including flagship WFAA here in Dallas. Similarly, Meredith has filed for all of their stations with the exception of KPHO. Those may be in the works and coming tomorrow, or they may decide to keep them on.
post #6936 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchflare View Post

It depends on what content you value and at what quality. That argument may be true if there was no Bluray, DVD, game consoles, HTPC, Hulu, etc. Do I really want to pay that much more for service that gives me a few more HD channels that I actually want and pay monthly to rent a box for all my TVs? Not really. I'll settle for lesser quality on those channels because I already get the content and I can record and play back with my own gear and pay nothing extra. If all the channels were unencrypted and I could record with my own equipment, then that would be a different ballgame.


a FEW more...more like 40 more....

How can you get the content on Nat Geo, EPSN, ect....? It's what...maybe 20-30 bucks a month? If one afford a HDTV/sound system, i would surely hope they can swing 30 bucks a month.... Kind of like spending 70k on a sports car and putting 87 octain in it, just to save money. STILL CONFUSED!!
post #6937 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpreyes623 View Post

I'm in Peoria. 83rd and Union Hills

Here are the test channels that are currently coming in at my location:

980: CNN HD
981: Bravo HD
982: AMC HD
983: NFL Network TV HD
984: Planet Green HD
985: Sci-Fi HD
986: Spike TV HD
987: TLC HD
988: Travel HD
989: VS HD
990: HGTV HD
991: MTV HD

Currently not able to view.

Same thing here at 75th and Thunderbird. Test channels show up in the guide but when I try to tune them in, I get a blank, black screen. Sounds like they're getting ready to go here in the West Valley. I want my Sci Fi Channel in HD!
post #6938 of 10855
Okay, now that makes sense. So basically, there is no advantage to OTA HD channels, except for saving a few bucks??

I just figure that you would to get the most out of your HDTV...(more channels/movies, ect.)
post #6939 of 10855
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nom de QWERTY View Post

Same thing here at 75th and Thunderbird. Test channels show up in the guide but when I try to tune them in, I get a blank, black screen. Sounds like they're getting ready to go here in the West Valley. I want my Sci Fi Channel in HD!

Feb 12.
post #6940 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan480 View Post

...STILL CONFUSED!!

If you take all viewers, half of what is watched by them is on those 6 channels, half on the other 600 channels. There are still a lot of folks who could not care less about anything other than the OTA channels. And many of those who do want more would rather get Blu-Ray movies from NetFlix than spend $14 a month for HBO, which runs the same two-year-old 30-35 movies over and over and over and over and over again.

Animal Planet in HD? G4? VH1? Puh-leeze! To most people paying extra for HD channels they would never watch seems like a bad idea. Consequently, not everybody signs up.

To you and me, well hell, we think FX, SCIFI, USA, CNN, TNT, and ESPN alone in HD is worth the extra freight. But not everyone agrees. That should not be confusing at all.
post #6941 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by kb7oeb View Post

That surprises me, I thought 3 and 5 analog would stay up to the end...

+1 Ditto. I thought there would be a locally agreed-upon date for the whole market to go, and that is still the inside baseball talk I am hearing. But those stations who are thinking April would be happy to see 3 and 61 go first. Ecstatic.
post #6942 of 10855
I haven't seen a station id yet but 38-3 is playing 80s music videos, right now its Cruel Summer. I wonder if this is a revival of the Bohemian music video channel that used to be on 44. 38-2 is running a B&W episode of the Beverly hillbillies

38-1 is still a simulcast of the Spanish channel on 53
post #6943 of 10855
I doubt anyone cares about KASW going, but the Oprah demographic reached by KTVK will certainly benefit from a not-so-subtle kick in the rear when they can't watch their show anymore. Just need to get KPNX to go at the same time so all the old people can't see their stories anymore .
post #6944 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCat View Post

If you take all viewers, half of what is watched by them is on those 6 channels, half on the other 600 channels. There are still a lot of folks who could not care less about anything other than the OTA channels. And many of those who do want more would rather get Blu-Ray movies from NetFlix than spend $14 a month for HBO, which runs the same two-year-old 30-35 movies over and over and over and over and over again.

Animal Planet in HD? G4? VH1? Puh-leeze! To most people paying extra for HD channels they would never watch seems like a bad idea. Consequently, not everybody signs up.

To you and me, well hell, we think FX, SCIFI, USA, CNN, TNT, and ESPN alone in HD is worth the extra freight. But not everyone agrees. That should not be confusing at all.

Got it now...thanks man!!!

Yes, HBO is a total waste...totally agree. I think it's worth the extra cash just for espn and discovery!!
post #6945 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan480 View Post

...Yes, HBO is a total waste...totally agree...

To be clear, you are agreeing with a lot of folks who have tried it and found this to be the case.

But you are NOT agreeing with me. I'll still get it for Real Time with bill Maher and Trueblood. Once they end, so does my script.
post #6946 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCat View Post

To be clear, you are agreeing with a lot of folks who have tried it and found this to be the case.

But you are NOT agreeing with me. I'll still get it for Real Time with bill Maher and Trueblood. Once they end, so does my script.


I actually just removed HBO about a month ago due to Trueblood season one ending...will add back this summer.

Same with Showtime....damn pay channels are only good for the shows
post #6947 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan480 View Post

Same with Showtime....damn pay channels are only good for the shows

Showtime did not renew their deals with Paramount Pictures, MGM, and Lionsgate so they are going to be even more dependant on original programming.
post #6948 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpcgeek View Post

Showtime did not renew their deals with Paramount Pictures, MGM, and Lionsgate so they are going to be even more dependant on original programming.


Oh damn....there goes showtimes payroll
post #6949 of 10855
Marley Park in Surprise has the test channels in HD in the 980-991 range!

Woohoo
post #6950 of 10855
I live in Goodyear and I was able to receive local HD channels (108.1, 106.2, 106.1, etc.) through Cox Basic (no STB) up until 2/01. I can still get local SD, but even after doing a rescan, my TV was unable to find any HD channels. After calling Cox tech support two different times, the first analyst rudely told me that I wasn't supposed to be getting local HD in the first place and they never supported this type of service. The second analyst informed me that some channels were moved around. He advised me to perform a rescan and if I still don't get any HD channels, there is nothing he can do about it. Is anyone else experiencing this?

Given that only the local HD channels were removed from the basic service, this sounds to me like an attempt to force their Basic customers to pay extra for the premium HD package, even if they only want local HD service. If that's the case, I'll install a rooftop antenna since I only subscribe to Cox for their internet service anyway. Cox Basic just happens to be included with their broadband service.
post #6951 of 10855
The White House wants your opinion on The DTV Delay ACT Bill
President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/
post #6952 of 10855
The Cox QAM channels (that is the name of the HD channels you are talking about) have been moving around quite a bit for some people in the Valley. Cox is on the tail end of a Valleywide system upgrade. From what most have experienced the QAM channels move or disappear around the time your upgrade is completed. Cox does not support the reception of these channels, but according to some here is required to provide.

Unfortunately until the upgrade is totally completed there is not much we can do about the QAM channels. Once the dust settles hopefully Cox can get it all straightened out.

The latest and greatest QAM channel assignments can be found on the first post of this forum.

FYI Cox Basic is no longer provided with the Internet service
post #6953 of 10855
Thread Starter 
Cox is required to pass local channels unencrypted, and that's what they do. However, they do not "support" these channels when it comes to troubleshooting your HDTV/QAM tuner. We believe there are 2 things at play that keep people from receiving some or all of the unencrypted QAM channels.

One is old traps/filters that are put on lines for folks who do not subscribe to digital cable. These devices keep you from getting channels you are not paying for. It seems that some unencrypted QAM channels were moved to frequencies that are blocked. Whether or not you can get them to roll a truck to remove/change the filter is open for debate.

The other is possible incorrect CVCT data. This was a problem in the past and some believe it is a problem again. Cox has supposedly checked all this, but the problems persist. Many HDTVs simply ignore incorrect data, so they are still able to tune the channels. Others don't and that could be the problem for some. FWIW, some Vizio models seem to be having most of the problems. coyote is still trying to get some captured data to verify the CVCT and contact Cox if he can identify some errors.
post #6954 of 10855
kingpcgeek, DoubleDAZ - Thanks for the info!

I installed a Channel Master CM-3016 in my attic that was in storage for at least 15 years (I knew there was a good reason to keep it). I have a clear view of South Mountain which is 20 miles away from where I live, so I was optimistic that an attic installation would suffice. After running a channel scan, I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to pick up about 30 digital channels, including all the available local HD channels very well. I'm not sure if it's just my imagination, but the SD channels look much better OTA than they did with Cox; HD looks about the same. BTW, I have a Sony KDS60A3000.
post #6955 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkEye80 View Post

I installed a Channel Master CM-3016 in my attic that was in storage for at least 15 years (I knew there was a good reason to keep it). I have a clear view of South Mountain which is 20 miles away from where I live,...

...I'm not sure if it's just my imagination, but the SD channels look much better OTA than they did with Cox; HD looks about the same...

CM still makes the best antennae. I am about the same distance and am using twinlead taped to a window, so any antenna that is better and with a clear view could and normally does work perfectly at that distance, other factors depending.

Cox does nothing to degrade HD channels. They demod and demux from 8VSB and remod the baseband digital signal as QAM, so the content remains within the digital domain. They are using VOIP to move it from the receive site to some of their headends, which also does not degrade signals (both processes assuming they allocate enough bits, which they apparently do). Bottom line, it should be the very same quality as OTA HD.

Cox receives HD OTA, but that is being relegated to backup status, as they are beginning to get it from a dedicated fiber feed to each station. KSAZ went just this week. This will not affect PQ either pro or con, but will improve reliability. IOW, when the transmitter has a problem, Cox customers, unlike DBS and OTA customers, will not see any signal interruption. Most stations have transmitter backup, so interruptions should be brief and rare.

Cox used to take SD as baseband feeds from an analog broadcast ring, and distribute it in analog. They have gradually moved to fiber and VOIP area by area which improves quality by retaining integrity during transport, and instead of taking the SD signal as baseband analog, they have begun to crossconvert to 480i and centercut to 4:3 the HD signals and present them as the SD feeds, which also should improve SD. The more they move away from analog and copper plant, the better SD PQ gets.

But the more they wish to divest themselves of analog channels altogether, the more there might be a tendency to overcompress SD (too many SD channels crammed into a single QAM). 10 channels is pushing it, 12 is noticeable. I'm not sure how they are actually approaching it, but SD analog on cable will be gone in 3 to 5 years, if not sooner. Cable wants to reclaim that bandwidth almost as much as the government wants to reclaim NTSC OTA bandwidth.
post #6956 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCat View Post


But the more they wish to divest themselves of analog channels altogether, the more there might be a tendency to overcompress SD (too many SD channels crammed into a single QAM). 10 channels is pushing it, 12 is noticeable. I'm not sure how they are actually approaching it, but SD analog on cable will be gone in 3 to 5 years, if not sooner. Cable wants to reclaim that bandwidth almost as much as the government wants to reclaim NTSC OTA bandwidth.

The elimination of analog signals on the cable systems could be sooner than you think. I am a resident of Sun City, but I also have a home in the Bay Area of California where I am this week. I just received a letter from Comcast Cable, our local supplier here in the Tri-Valley area that as of the end of 2009, the only analog channels left on their cable will be 2-34 as they want to use the 35 up analog channels for digital QAM service. What they are doing is offering all customers of Comcast up to two (2) free DAT's set top boxes. The box is a Digital to Analog converter made by PACE and has a model number of DC50X. If you want more than the two free boxes, you can get them for 1.99 each extra per month. They connect between the cable coax outlet and you TV coax input. You select the output for channel 3 or 4 and call Comcast and have them activate the box. The activation will send down a map which will allow you to receive all the normal analog channels they have on their cable plus a lot of others such as the weather or foreign language programs that OTA stations are carrying. The also add the C-SPAN 2 & 3 and some shopping channels they analog only customers did not receive before..

The box comes with a remote that you can add your TV set into it so it will turn the power on and off can control the volume. I picked up my two boxes yesterday and they were easy to connect and get working. I did get calls from a few of my senior citizen neighbors asking what is this all about...

Stay Tuned
Alan
post #6957 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by AENielsenSR View Post

The elimination of analog signals on the cable systems could be sooner than you think...

It might be, yet I am not sure how you might presume to know what I think. What I know is that some systems might or might not go earlier, as cable wants to find a way to reclaim the bandwidth. But they want to have their cake and eat it too. Scuttling analog means alienating long-time core subs. Choosing an optimum date therefore becomes a dicey task.

The FCC is setting a mandatory shutoff for analog on cable, not unlike the mandatory analog shutoff of NTSC OTA. Originally it was to be a 5-year grace period after the OTA shutoff. Later there were rumors of it being as little as 3 years. As we have seen recently, these sorts of deadline dates are very fluid, so it is hard to predict the end of analog with certainty. If some moronic senator thinks he can make political hay by bulldozing over the wishes of the cable industry, who's to say there won't be a lot of sheep following him in lockstep up on the hill? We've seen that sort of behavior once or twice already, and just recently.

Just as the analog OTA shutoff is not a fixed "drop dead" date, meaning that stations can opt to go sooner if it suits them, cable can also shut off SD sooner if it happens to suit them. Some will. But I was not talking about some idiosyncratic isolated market, I was speaking of cable in general, and at this point in time it is expected to be 3-5 years down the road, as I stated earlier. Of course that could change. If some foolhardy MSO jumps the gun and seems to get off scott-free, it could cause a tsunami of followers, effectively ending analog cable earlier than currently predicted. No one really has a crystal ball regarding what might happen.

Now you don't have to continue to try to read my mind.
post #6958 of 10855
There is no mandatory end of analog on cable. What the FCC actually says is that cable companies cannot end analog service on their most basic package (lifeline) until three years after the end of analog OTA broadcasting unless they provide boxes at their expense to all customers.

To my knowledge, there is no mandatory end to analog cable. Only a time when it is allowed to end.

- Trip
post #6959 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

There is no mandatory end of analog on cable. What the FCC actually says is that cable companies cannot end analog service on their most basic package (lifeline) until three years after the end of analog OTA broadcasting unless they provide boxes at their expense to all customers.

To my knowledge, there is no mandatory end to analog cable. Only a time when it is allowed to end.

- Trip



cox has said analog till atleast 2012

Will consumers be able to watch digital TV on their existing analog sets?
All Cox customers will be able to watch these stations on any TV hooked up to cable. Cox Digital Cable customers already receive these channels in digital format, and Cox is committed to converting these broadcast channels for its analog customers for at least three years after this deadline.
post #6960 of 10855
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajwees41 View Post

cox has said analog till atleast 2012

Will consumers be able to watch digital TV on their existing analog sets?
All Cox customers will be able to watch these stations on any TV hooked up to cable. Cox Digital Cable customers already receive these channels in digital format, and Cox is committed to converting these broadcast channels for its analog customers for at least three years after this deadline.

I guess the only caveat to all this is just how many channels will remain available to analog (cable-ready TV) customers. I can see the number of channels offered decrease significantly after EON is finished and Cox moves to add more HD and standardize offerings across all markets. I guess we'll see how this all plays out.
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