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Phoenix, AZ - HDTV - Page 334

post #9991 of 10855
Trip,

It's been on here in Phoenix 24 / 7 for about 3 months now.

Did I understand you correctly........... there's no content actually being broadcast ?

Foxcreek
post #9992 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxcreek View Post

Did I understand you correctly........... there's no content actually being broadcast ?

dhett collected TSReader data on it that shows the AirTV streams are mapped, but there's no actual content or data being sent at this time.

- Trip
post #9993 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpcgeek View Post

So you are asking for advice on how to steal cable?

I didn't think this was considered stealing. I was under the impression that if I continued having internet service with Cox that this was an added benefit that I could take advantage of at the same time. Now, I might be wrong and if Iam- I apologize and would not think of using any service illegaly. One channel (TBS) is not worth it anyways.
post #9994 of 10855
Trip,

TNX....... I guess I'm not missing anything then !

73 Foxcreek
post #9995 of 10855
It is called piracy, and it is actionable.
post #9996 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmesch View Post

It is called piracy, and it is actionable.

If he still has high speed internet (HSI) and basic cable then he gets the QAM channels for free. That is not stealing or piracy. I asked COX and they said that even if you have JUST HSI then you can also get QAM only if they have not installed a trap but they may install it at any time.
post #9997 of 10855
Topics merged.
post #9998 of 10855
It's still theft of service, though it's one of those things they probably won't prosecute you for unless it's worth the effort (stealing something valuable like premiums or PPV). Either accept the fact that you're breaking the law, subscribe to the lifeline service (Cox calls it "Cox TV Starter"), at which point you can demand that they install a filter that doesn't block channels you are entitled to receive like Fox HD, or use only your antenna for TV.
post #9999 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxcreek View Post

Trip,

TNX....... I guess I'm not missing anything then !

73 Foxcreek

Some might say that about the channels that are sending data.
post #10000 of 10855
I read online that Cox is adding 30 HD channels to some markets. Is Phoenix getting any of those?
post #10001 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRatPatrol View Post
I read online that Cox is adding 30 HD channels to some markets. Is Phoenix getting any of those?
Not until they roll out the new 8642 DVR that includes the much aligned Trio program guide and the mutli-room DVR feature. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...608675&page=65
post #10002 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRatPatrol View Post

I read online that Cox is adding 30 HD channels to some markets. Is Phoenix getting any of those?

The MPEG-4 channels. Only in markets with MPEG-4 equipment - the WH DVR "Plus" package with Trio IPG. No reason for Cox not to offer these (86xxHDC DVR, 46xxHDC STB, 16xxHDC STB) without getting the WH DVR service, but they won't - yet.
post #10003 of 10855
Does cox offer a non HDTV cable box with HDMI?
I want to set up a 2nd logitech revue to another room for the kids but the box I have now does not have an HDMI out...
post #10004 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgendreau View Post

Does cox offer a non HDTV cable box with HDMI?
I want to set up a 2nd logitech revue to another room for the kids but the box I have now does not have an HDMI out...

I don't think Cisco/SA makes one. How much extra per month is the HD STB?
post #10005 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgendreau View Post

Does cox offer a non HDTV cable box with HDMI?
I want to set up a 2nd logitech revue to another room for the kids but the box I have now does not have an HDMI out...

No, but the non DVR HDTV box with an HDMI jack is only $2 more per month than the SD box.
post #10006 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

It's still theft of service, though it's one of those things they probably won't prosecute you for unless it's worth the effort (stealing something valuable like premiums or PPV). Either accept the fact that you're breaking the law, subscribe to the lifeline service (Cox calls it "Cox TV Starter"), at which point you can demand that they install a filter that doesn't block channels you are entitled to receive like Fox HD, or use only your antenna for TV.

I'm coming in on this discussion a little late, as my daughter recently moved her family to Phoenix and can only afford the internet service.

As I understand the law, based upon dealing with satellite transmissions, as long as the connection to the dwelling was provided by the legal provider, it is up to that provider to not allow you to have what you didn't pay for. They have to provide what you signed up for. If anything else is there, lucky you.

In this case, Cox, has provided free unencrypted QAM channels. You don't have to demand a damn thing. If they want to give it to you for free, that is their choice. They know the unencrypted QAM channels are there for the subscriber to view, if the user has a TV that can tune them.

Legally they can't let the channels into your dwelling and then come back and cry foul in a court of law.

In a nutshell, it isn't theft of service when the service is provided by the legal owner, paid for or not.

If Cox was really concerned, they would trap the video service from internet only customers.

Obviously this issue isn't a one-off mistake by an installer. It seems that all internet subscribers get the "free" channels.
post #10007 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroyâ„¢ View Post

I asked COX and they said that even if you have JUST HSI then you can also get QAM only if they have not installed a trap but they may install it at any time.

Exactly. You can't steal what they know they are giving you for free.

And yes, at a time in the future, Cox could have a installer go around and install the traps on all internet only connections. Here today, gone tomorrow.
post #10008 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX View Post

SiliconDust compiles a listing of Clear QAM channels by Provider and ZipCode:
http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun...018#sidebyside

Thanks for the list. My daughter will appreciate it.
post #10009 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX View Post

SiliconDust compiles a listing of Clear QAM channels by Provider and ZipCode:
http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun...018#sidebyside

My daughter reports that the lists do not match what she is seeing, and not seeing. Is there an up-to-date accurate list somewhere?
post #10010 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

My daughter reports that the lists do not match what she is seeing, and not seeing. Is there an up-to-date accurate list somewhere?

Have her go to the main page and enter her exact ZipCode.
http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/

The list seems accurate to me, but Cox does move the ClearQAMs around as they please.
post #10011 of 10855
Thanks. I entered the zip and sent the complete link.

One of the channels she can't seem to find is the NBC affiliate, KPNX.
post #10012 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Thanks. I entered the zip and sent the complete link.

One of the channels she can't seem to find is the NBC affiliate, KPNX.

NBC KPNX Channel 12 is simply "12-1"
post #10013 of 10855
Ya, I saw that in the listings. I'm making sure that she actually had the TV do a channel scan.

They've never had to do a channel scan before because he worked for TWC, before they moved, so they had a cablebox that got everything.
post #10014 of 10855
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Ya, I saw that in the listings. I'm making sure that she actually had the TV do a channel scan.

They've never had to do a channel scan before because he worked for TWC, before they moved, so they had a cablebox that got everything.

They might have to do more than one channel scan because sometimes the signal just doesn't register. I and many others have had problems with 8.1, 10.1 and 12.1 that were resolved with additional scans that eventually registered a good signal.

On the subject of theft, I believe mrvideo is correct on his interpretation of the law. It's only theft of service if you take some positive action to get the signal, such as illegally tapping into your neighbors line or tampering with their equipment to disable security features, etc. Some might consider it immoral to watch TV you aren't paying for, but it's not illegal. It's a Cox responsibility to disable the signal. Oftentimes Cox doesn't completely shut down service when someone moves out because chances are the next resident will also want service. Sometimes, like once for me in Colorado, they use it as an advertizing technique. They let it on for a couple of months and then ask if you want to pay to continue the service.

On yet another note, the other day I got a fairly detailed survey from Cox that took 25 minutes online to fill out. It asked a lot of questions and a lot about a number of channels. I read it as possibly thinking of offering something like TWC's new limited service, the one without ESPN.
post #10015 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

They might have to do more than one channel scan because sometimes the signal just doesn't register. I and many others have had problems with 8.1, 10.1 and 12.1 that were resolved with additional scans that eventually registered a good signal.

Thanks. I've passed along the information.
post #10016 of 10855
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

On the subject of theft, I believe mrvideo is correct on his interpretation of the law. It's only theft of service if you take some positive action to get the signal, such as illegally tapping into your neighbors line or tampering with their equipment to disable security features, etc.

I have no dog in this fight, but one might argue that putting in a splitter and connecting to a TV is in itself "taking positive action" to get the signal. Then again, if the splitter and connection were put in when there was a subscription to TV service...
post #10017 of 10855
Actually, it is much simpler. Watching the television is "taking the action". I don't know enough about this particular issue (having HSI) but if you knowingly watch cable service without paying or it, you are creating an implied contract with the cable provider. They are providing a service and you are taking advantage of it. If you walk into a doctors office to get a checkup and don't sign papers (contract) you are still obligated to pay for the service.

Now it may be difficult for the cable provider to prove that you are viewing cable and it is probably not worth their time to Enforce the implied contract.

Yes, I'm a lawyer, but this isn't my area of practice. Just basic contract law principles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post


I have no dog in this fight, but one might argue that putting in a splitter and connecting to a TV is in itself "taking positive action" to get the signal. Then again, if the splitter and connection were put in when there was a subscription to TV service...
post #10018 of 10855
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallen234 View Post

Yes, I'm a lawyer, but this isn't my area of practice. Just basic contract law principles.

Then maybe you know someone whose area of expertise it is.

However, even if you do, that will still not resolve the issue here. It will still pretty much be a judgement call. I'm sure we can all find a lawyer (prosecutor) who will say it is theft of service, while others can find one (defense) who will say it isn't. The only way to EVER know for sure is in a court of law and even that can vary by venue, unless, of course, this situation is specifically covered in various regulations. Heck, even the Supreme Court can change it's mind over time, so it's never absolutely clear until the last gavel falls.

The real point though is that no cableco is going to even worry about it. If they even see that someone is receiving such QAM signals, they may decide to installl one or more traps, but that is all they will do. That's not the same as if they find someone tampered with their equipment. If the signal is live, use it until it isn't. If that offends your sense of morality, don't use it. Simple as that!

And that's only my opinion based in personal experience, nothing more.
post #10019 of 10855
Quote:


ARS 13-3709. Obtaining cable television services fraudulently; manufacturing, distributing and selling unauthorized decoding devices; classification; definition

A. Any person who with the intent to defraud another of any part of the lawful charge for services that are provided over or by a licensed cable television system as defined in section 9-505, makes any unauthorized connection, whether physically, electrically, acoustically, inductively or otherwise, or attaches any unauthorized device or devices to any cable, wire, microwave or other component of a licensed cable television system, to a television set or to any other instrument that is authorized to be attached to a cable television system is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor.

Could also apply:
Quote:


ARS 13-1802. Theft; classification; definitions

A. A person commits theft if, without lawful authority, the person knowingly:
2. Converts for an unauthorized term or use services or property of another entrusted to the defendant or placed in the defendant's possession for a limited, authorized term or use

G. Theft of property or services with a value of twenty-five thousand dollars or more is a class 2 felony. Theft of property or services with a value of four thousand dollars or more but less than twenty-five thousand dollars is a class 3 felony. Theft of property or services with a value of three thousand dollars or more but less than four thousand dollars is a class 4 felony, except that theft of any vehicle engine or transmission is a class 4 felony regardless of value. Theft of property or services with a value of two thousand dollars or more but less than three thousand dollars is a class 5 felony. Theft of property or services with a value of one thousand dollars or more but less than two thousand dollars is a class 6 felony. Theft of any property or services valued at less than one thousand dollars is a class 1 misdemeanor, unless the property is taken from the person of another, is a firearm or is an animal taken for the purpose of animal fighting in violation of section 13-2910.01, in which case the theft is a class 6 felony.

Will Cox push for prosecution of this? Maybe, maybe not, but either way it's a crime.
post #10020 of 10855
A defense attorney would rip the above to shreds. Cox has to actually show that they are protecting their property.

By knowingly leaving the clear QAM channels available to the location the cable is connected to and knowingly having customer support agents that know that and imply that said connection is available and could go away indicates that Cox is not actively trying to enforce the law.

You can't knowingly dangle the carrot in the face of the customer and then go after said customer.

There was a recent court case between the owner of the motorcycle shop where I get my bike serviced and the owner of the property and the private drive going to the property and beyond.

The case involved the owner wanting to do changes to the private drive. It was beginning to look like the shop owner was going to have access to his business severely curtailed by these changes. But, the judge found a piece of state law that said if the owner allowed certain things to continue for at least 10 years and did noting about it, the owner couldn't come back later and claim issues. Turns out that the shop owner also used the private drive for testing of new and repaired bikes. As this wasn't supposed to happen and yet the owner allowed it to happen for the amount of time according to state law, the owner wasn't allowed to make the changes to the private drive.

Just because the law exists doesn't mean that it can be enforced if the person/entity it is supposed to protect also doesn't attempt to protect said services. The cable customer is not breaking the law in this situation because of what the company is doing and allowed to happen.
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