Houston, TX - OTA - Page 102

Forgive me for not answering your question right now, but I may be able to help in a few weeks. My wife and I are in the process of moving to Kingwood and I was just curious what village you live in. We are currently house shopping in the Woodland Hills area. It's good to know that it is certainly possible to receive HD OTA in Kingwood. Thanks in advance, and I hope to be able to join in this local forum full time as soon as we get settled in.

(Regarding ZHDTV1) The limitation is the size of the elements. A UHF-only antenna like that simply doesn't have elements the right size to receive VHF signals (although if you live close to the transmitter, you may still receive hi-VHF signals with a UHF antenna).

I'm pretty sure ch. 2 will still brand themselves that way even after the actual ch. 2 goes away. Besides being a huge marketing expense to change, I believe the FCC rules require stations to identify with their analog channel assignment. The same goes for ch. 3 in Bryan which is moving to ch. 50.

In College Station I can only sporadically receive Houston DTV signals, but 2-1, 20-1, and 39-1,2 are the strongest when the atmosphere cooperates. It's probably a good thing ch. 2 is moving to the UHF band -- growing up in Washington county, which admittedly is on the fringe of the Houston market, ch. 2 was by far the weakest signal out of Houston (even people on cable saw interference when it rained). I thought ch. 2 just had a weak signal but looking back on it, I think living 20 miles from ch. 3 (which could be picked up with a paper clip) probably had something to do with it also.

DTV coverage is definitely better in the fringe areas than analog. I took a Samsung set-top box to test coverage at my grandfather's house near Navasota and was able to get a reliable signal on all the Houston stations except 8-1, 14-*, 49-*, and 51-1 with just a Radio Shack "UFO + rabbit ears" antenna. Most of the Houston analog stations are very snowy, and ch. 2 doesn't come in at all.

Which antenna do you have or recommend? Thanks

2.1 and 312 on TWC looks much better during tonights Bears/Packers game.

Halftime report....

Thanks Mr. Z.
Though "Da Bears" certainly do stink tonight, your HD picture quality on tonight's Bears/Packers matchup is considerably improved.

Now, how do we convince your Mgmt that 2-3 and 2-4 need to be left off? PQ on everything all week (since the 2-1 bandwidth increase) has been noticeably better, but tonight's NFL game is the proof of the formula.

Not yet quite as good as KRIV, but definitely improved by a good margin.

Thanks again!!!!!

I'm in Greentree in a one-story; so my situation is probably as challenging as possible. At least there are no huge trees very close.

I finally found a spot in the attic that seems to be working. I'm only getting in the 60's on each channel, but 2, 11, and 26 have been solid. Channel 13 had some dropouts earlier today, but it seems to be doing better tonight. Hope it works OK for the Rose Bowl.

Welcome to the hood!! Paul

2 still looks macroblocky to me.

Compared to last week I see a vast improvement.

However, two problems remain, neither of which I fault KPRC for. Until I learn more I'm going to fault NBC for these problems.

First, one or two of the field-level cameras were consistently soft focus (or else someone needs to wipe off the lenses). Field level cams also do not seem to have much depth of field. What may appear to some as macroblockiing during field-level shots (i.e., of the players returning to the line of scrimmage) were frequently tight shots (closeups) which of course sees everything in background as a blur. Yes, I did see macroblocking artifacts in the blur, but so what? The image wasn't viewable anyway. What the camera was focused on was consistently viewable, certainly 90% of the time. Another of the field-level cams was apparently right alongside a salamander (propane heater) as the rising heat could be seen distorting the picture. Again I fault NBC's production team for this.

Second, instant-replay (again from secondary camera angles) suffered from the same problem, as did much of the video from the robo-cam.

When lined up for scrimmage the resolution was good enough to see the metal-flake in Favre's helmet (when they had a close-up shot).

There were 4 or perhaps 5 scene transitions which were severely macroblocked for a second or so. The first split second coming back from commercial was also macroblocked, I don't know who to attribute that to, but the overall presentation sure looked a heck of a lot better than it did a week ago. (I hate to do too much complaining because I'm so happy with the improvements thus far).

To put things in perspective if I had to assign a "grade", the PQ for last night's Bears/Packers game would get a B+, compared to the Dallas game on Christmas day which I would call a D-.

I refer to macroblocking as the picture getting blocky due to one thing and one thing only: Too much motion on the screen (which doesn't exist because there is no such thing as too much motion). This can no way be the fault of NBC. They shoot what they have to shoot. Macroblocking is a local issue as a result of two things: 1) Not enough bandwidth. 2) Bad encoder.

End of story.

I saw an interview with Favre during the game and the interview looked decent. The only thing that was moving was his mouth (which took up about 1/20th of the shot). But as soon as they FADED back to the game, the fade looked like watching bitrate starved internet video. Sorry. I call them as I see them.

I do not care to get in exchanges that are a lost cause, but I do want to let you know that when the signal is originally created in the camera, it is at 1500Mbps (aprox), and when it gets distributed at the NBC level it is distributed at a maximum of 45 Mbps (don't believe the network uses all of that for HD). There will be compression artifacts show up on that signal, no matter how good the encoder is, particularly if part of the distribution will include the requirement to recompress the previously compressed signal further to 19Mbps, 16Mbps, or 14Mbps, which as you can see is where we get to the splitting of hairs. Even if you watch analog games now a days you will see compression artifacts on the games, because of digital distribution systems somewhere in the chain, although normally you won't hear about those, I do.

EZ

EZ, I'm not trying to get into an exchange with you. In fact, I agree with you. However, I have worked on many productions using 3/4, BetaCamSP, DVCPro, MiniDV, HDV, and uncompressed HD. I know what HDV can look like at less than half the bitrate that NBC is feeding you and it can be free of macroblocking.
I fully understand that a video signal/stream is only as good as it's weakest link.
Have a look at what Canon's XL-H1 can do next time you're at NAB.

Let me be more specific about what I mean.... They themselves rely on encoders to get the signal to us... to not consider them capable of being at fault is something I would only expect out of someone who holds NBC in very high regard.

Distribution infrastructure will rarely take advantage of any efficiencies that you would normally see in the acquisition stage. Good acquisition is not difficult to come by for HD now a days. Production can then mess it up, and then distribution can do whatever damage was not done in production...Of course distribution is to the locals and then from the locals...

EZ

EZ, is that an invitation to come watch the 40mbps stream the network is providing to you?

Forgive me for not elaborating further on my previous e-mail. I was "typing" from my PS3. What I really wanted to say was that at 40mbps, I find it hard to believe that, although some minor compression artifacting may exist, it's nowhere near what we, the consumer, are seeing from your local feed. Like I said, I fully understand that a video signal/stream is only as good as it's weakest link (no matter where in the distribution infrastructer it may be).

Please don't take it personally. I honestly don't mean to attack you or nullify anything you say. It's just that there are other channels in town taking their network feed and providing it with no to very little macroblocking. Is their distribustion model that much different than NBC's? I suppose the only way to find out, as a consumer, is to watch NBC's HD feed from a different NBC local affiliate. Perhaps one that is newer to HD broadcasting and using a newer encoder. Just thinking out loud now.

To my knowledge, the only local station using a different network to affiliate distribution system is FOX/KRIV-26. Their HD signal comes to them already formatted as @ 16-17 mbps and goes directly to their microwave link to the transmitter. In fact, the network actually triggers the KRIV logo/bug. At this time, their only other capability is to switch to their local "upconvert", which is easily identifiable by the blue end pillar graphics.

Obviously, their local input stream will change at such time as they want to provide local HD programming.

Everyone else gets their network signals in a similar manner as KPRC...@ 40-45mbps, with separate video, data, audio signals that have to be processed and encoded before microwaving to their transmitters.

As an "aside"...some of you may have noticed that KHOU/11 offers both Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune in HD. They downlink and record on their own HD capable server, and then play back and encode at the proper time. As far as I can see, occasionally watching WOF...the pictures look great. Of course...there isn't much "action" to stretch the system. (Vanna in HD is definitely aging more gracefully than some of us.)

Which antenna is good to receive local HD channels (2, 8, 11, 13, 26, 39, and 44)? I live in Katy, near to Mason and Clay, single story, no big tree or big building around my area, I have a Sony 40 HD LCD.

After reading the first 12 pages from this thread, I am thinking to install a CM 4221 in my attic. Using the antennaweb site, I found most of the channels are in yellow-vhf and uhf. From the solidsignal website, they do not have 4221 anymore, but find similar item like 4221A. Is this the same model as the 4221? Why it Channel Master CM 4221A 4-Bay Bowtie listed as UHF Antenna? Will it receive the VHF signal? Do I need to buy other equipment other than the 4221 antenna to get the HD channel?

Thanks a lot!

HDLink:

That 4221, whether it be the 4221 or 4221a, is NOT designed to pick up VHF signals, like KUHT now, or KHOU and KTRK in 2009. If you want an attic-mount antenna, I suggest the Channel Master 3014, available for $21 at the SolidSignal site, which is designed for close-range VHF and UHF reception in a small antenna.

Edited to add: After re-checking your distance to the tower farm, the 3014 may not have enough range from where you live. The Channel Master 3016, $29 at SolidSignal, is more up your alley, though a bit bigger...

I picked up the CM 3016 from my local Lowe's store for ~$35.

Matt

I checked the size for CM 3016, it's kind of big in size (66"x83.6"x22") to install in the attic, and it does not look good to install on the roof either.

Will the CM3010 do the job in the attic?
VHF range 45 miles
UHF range 30 miles
VHF Lo -4.6dB
VHF Hi 0.5dB
UHF -1.6dB
Size 15"x55"x2.25"
Turning Radius 30"
CEA LM

Or maybe other brand of antenna?
Thanks.......

The 3010 seems fine, though at $37 thru SolidSignal, it's even more than the 3016. I'll tell you, though, even though I prefer attic mounts in urban and suburban areas, that's probably the most stylish antenna anybody could mount outside.

What about the negative signal gain? Will it affect the performance?
VHF Lo -4.6dB
VHF Hi 0.5dB
UHF -1.6dB

Anyone ever try the CM 3010?

Anyone else happen to notice that there's no multicasting on KHOU today?
Wonder what that's all about.

Actually, I was just checking the local radars to see where the rain was noticed that both KPRC 2-3 and KHOU 11-2 are mirroring their main programming. KPRC 2-2 "Weather Plus" and KTRK 13-3 "Weather Now" are up though.

I don't have any of the local subs (other the -1's) even in my program channel lists. Only check them manually if there's some weather worth taking note of. So is it unusual or not? No idea.

And seriously 13-2 ?? I'd love to see the local ratings on that sucker, do they measure that by dozens of viewers? When explaining digital subchannels to people that's my favorite visual example, "see what you're not missing?" :-) But people do agree the weather stuff is handy, once or twice a month.

Channel 55 changed their lineup on 1/1/07.

You can get a current listing on
http://www.zap2it.com/
Note, analog 55 is the new listing. Digital 55.1 is old data.

A quick rundown:
(Mon-Thu)
11a Hart to Hart
12p Northern Exposure
1p Magnum, P.I.
2p Hawaii Five-0
3p Rockford Files
4p Kojak
5p A-Team
6p Married With Children (x2)
7p America's Funniest Home Videos (x2)
8p Magnum, P.I. (not a repeat of 1p)
9p Matlock
10p Northern Exposure (not a repeat of 12p)
(Fri)
11a Hart to Hart
12p Northern Exposure
1p -
2p Hawaii Five-0
3p Rockford Files
4p Kojak
5p -
6p Married With Children (x1)
7p America's Funniest Home Videos (x2)
8p Magnum, P.I.
9p Matlock
10p -

Has anyone on this forum gone from the H20 hd receiver to the HR20 hd DVR? I am thinking about doing that but I have heard there are issues with the HR20 OTA tuners. Apparently Directv has recently activated the HR20 OTA tuner. I would like to hear what your experiences have been with the HR20 OTA tuner. I am not impressed with the H20 I currently lease. That receiver has serious issues with some of the local channels especially KHOU (ie, dropouts every 28 seconds). Does anyone know who makes the HR20 and how good is it for the Houston OTA channels? I would like to stay with OTA for all my local channels since Directv hd channels are very soft....

Yeah, I see now that KHOU/11 has the multicasting turned back on, though as you note, simulcasting their main channel. How mindless.

In ref to the "radar channels" yes, it is convenient once or twice a month, but you can also get it online from several sources.

So far, based on our viewing habits with the new HDTV, we could drop two of our D* receivers and never miss them. Our old TIVO (series-1 mind you) is paired-up with an old D* 420RE and everything we TIVO is SD and available OTA. Why I continue paying for that receiver? Beats me. Stupid I guess. The new H20 is somewhat of a POS, in part because of OTA problems with KHOU and in part because its human interface is inarguably the least intuitive of any D* receiver we've ever owned. To sum it up in 5 words, we hate the damn thing. A buddy of mine just got the new HR20 and hates his for the same reason. Interface is a kludge.

About the only thing we watch on the new set with any regularity is OTA. Why I ever let myself get talked into subbing to their HD package escapes me. We watch those channels so very seldom, plus I hear they're moving to MPEG-4 later this year.

That's not good news. The current (new) MPEG-4 compressed locals are annoying to watch because of the massive amount of compression artifacts (noticed mostly in sports). If that's any preview of what the rest of the HD lineup is going to look like, then goodbye D*. Thank goodness we can get all our locals OTA. Apologies for this post sounding so negative, but from my perspective the new D* HD equipment brings little to the table and leaves a lot to be desired. We're very disappointed in it.

I just re-subbed to HBO, but only to get the last half of the final season of The Sopranos. Once the Sopranos are gone we'll be dropping HBO.

The wife is hooked on the Lifetime movie channels, Hallmark, Biography, Court-TV, etc. & I enjoy MSNBC and some of the other cable/sat-only channels, so we'll keep the D* sub on a couple receivers, but after The Sopranos final season wraps up I'm going to look into breaking my D* contract on the H20. That thing is junk.

AT&T should have FIOS in our neighborhood next summer, so perhaps that's what I'll try next. I would prefer not to go back to Cable. Been there and done that.

I have both an H20 and an HR20, but I do not have the H20 hooked up to an antenna (sat only fed to it in a bedroom). I am having no issues with reception of my OTA channels with the HR20, which is in my main system and hooked up to an attic-mounted antenna. From reading some threads at DBSTalk.com, I think most of the issues with the HR20's OTA reception are in areas of the country where the channel mapping database provided to Directv by Tribune Media Service is messed up. Apparently, the Houston mappings (i.e., 35 to 2.1, 31 to 11.1, etc.) are OK in the database, so I haven't seen any of the problems. Also, if you read other threads at DBSTalk.com, you'll see plenty of people complaining about other issues (primarily recording problems, some random rebootings, etc.), but I've had my HR20 for about six weeks with no problems.

The manufacturer of the HR20-700 (the only currently available version) is Pace. Directv designates the manufaturer by the three digit code after the model number, and 700 is the code for Pace. Supposedly, Directv may add another manufacturer later in 2007.

Hope this helps.

My VIP622 is still showing subchannels, with 2.1 & 2.3 NBC HD & 2.2 WeatherPlus.
On 11, similar situation. 11.1 & 11.3 CBS HD, 11.2 blank screen. Even after a re-scan. This seemed odd so I turned on my Samsung SIR-T451 and learned 2.1 & 2.2 exist, along with 11.1 with no multicast. 13 still running all channels as usual.

Steven

This is because they have not modified their PSIP tables to match what they are doing. The tuner 'sees' the channel in the transmitted header data, even though the old sub-channels are not physically there.

They'll figure it out - eventually

Bob Chase
KHCW-TV

As long as 11-1 and 11-3 point to the same exact piece of bandwidth, it's OK for now. So, have KHOU engineers redistributed old multicasting bandwidth to the HD channel? Does anybody have a virtual analyzer to figure it out?

P.S. Ursa, can you please update the #1 post in the thread to reflect KHOU and KPRC?