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post #6091 of 6141
I am new to this OTA game. I have recently installed an ANT751R w/ an RCA VH100 10dB amplifier in my attic (I dont believe rooftop is allowed in my area of The Woodlands, but have not looked into it yet). I have aimed it at 174deg per the analysis from TVFool below. I also only have it hooked up to 1 TV directly without a splitter (will need 2 in the future). I am getting most channels pretty good (NBC, FOX, CBS most of the time), but I am not getting ABC at all and CBS comes in sketchy sometimes. I know I am out pretty far. Do you think my setup is adequate to receive reception on all of these clearly? I have actually ordered (possibly prematurely) a Wingard HD7694P based on some online reviews and it should be here tomorrow. My concern is that I may be overlooking something else and maybe the ANT751R should be adequate for all the channels I require. I need to get ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and would like PBS, QUBO (for the kiddo), and I need them to come in "as clear as cable" for the wife to be happy wink.gif.

My analysis from tvfool here:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d1dda9b1ae9398a

Just looking for some advice. I've also been advised about the Winegard HD8200U which may be overkill, but i'd rather spend a little on overkill than to have sketchy reception 20% of the time.

Thanks for any help!!
post #6092 of 6141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin99 View Post

I am new to this OTA game. I have recently installed an ANT751R w/ an RCA VH100 10dB amplifier in my attic (I dont believe rooftop is allowed in my area of The Woodlands, but have not looked into it yet). I have aimed it at 174deg per the analysis from TVFool below. I also only have it hooked up to 1 TV directly without a splitter (will need 2 in the future). I am getting most channels pretty good (NBC, FOX, CBS most of the time), but I am not getting ABC at all and CBS comes in sketchy sometimes. I know I am out pretty far. Do you think my setup is adequate to receive reception on all of these clearly? I have actually ordered (possibly prematurely) a Wingard HD7694P based on some online reviews and it should be here tomorrow. My concern is that I may be overlooking something else and maybe the ANT751R should be adequate for all the channels I require. I need to get ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and would like PBS, QUBO (for the kiddo), and I need them to come in "as clear as cable" for the wife to be happy wink.gif.

My analysis from tvfool here:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d1dda9b1ae9398a

Just looking for some advice. I've also been advised about the Winegard HD8200U which may be overkill, but i'd rather spend a little on overkill than to have sketchy reception 20% of the time.

Thanks for any help!!

Attics are horrible places for antennas trying to pick up digital signals, so you are probably going to have to go outside. But the first thing I would do is lose the RCA preamp. It is generally a POS and wll input more "noise" than improve signal. You are probably losing 50% or more of your signal through the walls of your attic.

The good news is you cannot be stopped from erecting an antenna no matter what your HOA says. That is protected by law. They may try to harrass you about it, but they will fail.

You have good signal at your location and you will soon have two antennas to experiment with, so I would play around with the antennas. Try putting the new one outside on a temporary basis to see how it works. Tape a short pole to an extension ladder and raise it upto get an idea of your reception...
post #6093 of 6141
Something else to note is that KPRC channel "2" actually broadcasts on UHF channel 35. KUHT, KHOU, and KTRK are all on their respective VHF channels. All other full powers in Houston are on UHF.
post #6094 of 6141
I know I could fight it, but due to the area I chose to live in, I am trying to respect the fact that my neighbors would probably not like an antenna like that hanging off my house. Too bad they cannot make these to look more attractive (although I'm sure that would greatly add to the price). So with that, I need to try and find an attic solution for now. Once we move into a little more "rural" of an area like we are planning in a few years, then I can stick a whole bunch of these ugly things up on my house without caring wink.gif. They will fit nicely next to my 2000 sqft shop (dreaming....)biggrin.gif

Do you have a recommended amp I should look into? I purchased that RCA one just due to the fact it was "cheap" and I could "try it", no skin lost. I did notice an improvement though with it on my ANT751R, and picked up about 20 more channels (albeit nothing we would watch).

I am picking up NBC on 2-1, i'll have to check later to see whats on 35, but I dont recall it being NBC/KPRC. Guess I'm gonna have to learn these callsigns as well lol.
post #6095 of 6141
You're going to need to look up the difference between "real" and "virtual" channels. Welcome to the world of digital TV..
post #6096 of 6141
Ok, so I've been playing with both antenna's, and amplifiers; moved them all over the attic. I received my best reception on all but 1 channel i need, while the antenna was laying in insulation "snow"...... so i decided to mount it lower. This kept it further away from the techshield, and closer to the south side of the home. I am picking up on about 40-50 channels, however, i still cannot get a good read on the Hi-VHF channels (8, 11, 13). It comes in sketchy, there was a point where i was getting 8 and 11 perfectly, then after some adjustment, couldnt fine tune back to that same point. I am currently running the Winegard with the RCA Pre-Amp as it is netting the best results for me. Any other ideas why I am having issues getting the Hi-VHF channels? I would think those would be easier to get than the UHF?
post #6097 of 6141
I'm thinking i may be losing too much through the radiant barrier....does anyone think upgrading to the Winegard HD7698P or the Antennacraft HBU33 or HBU44 would overcome this issue with the radiant barrier? Or is this a no-win situation and I should just live without these channels?
post #6098 of 6141
Assume radiant barrier blocks all or nearly all signals. It is, after all, metal.

Your only sure solution is to either get the antenna out of the attic or to open up an aperture in the barrier to let the signal in.
post #6099 of 6141
I may just have to deal with it then, its hard to believe with all our technological advancements nowadays, no one has figured out how to pick up a signal in an attic with radiant barrier (which almost every new house gets installed nowadays...). I am still looking to pull my HOA docs to see if it is possible to put this thing on the roof, but our area is different then most HOA's and I am pretty sure they can forbid it, but I will continue to research that route.
post #6100 of 6141
Quote:
no one has figured out how to pick up a signal in an attic with radiant barrier (which almost every new house gets installed nowadays...).

Radio signals still obey the laws of physics. If you can find a way around those laws, then you can make it work the way you want it to.

Speaking of laws, check on the FCC's OTARD rule regarding the rooftop or outdoor option. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
Edited by ADTech - 3/20/13 at 9:55am
post #6101 of 6141
I just called my HOA and apparently I do not need approval by them as long as it cannot be seen from the roadway (which mine would not). So i may just throw it up there this weekend and see how it does. Now.....need to research how to ground that sucker...
post #6102 of 6141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin99 View Post

I just called my HOA and apparently I do not need approval by them as long as it cannot be seen from the roadway (which mine would not). So i may just throw it up there this weekend and see how it does. Now.....need to research how to ground that sucker...
post #6103 of 6141
Grounding is easy, although you may need to drive in a ground rod, depending on where you mount the mast. If you have metal pipes or your electric meter ground rod nearby, you can attach the ground wire to those... Lowe's and Home Depot both sell grounding blocks. What you do is cut your downlead from the antenna and put an "F" connector on both cut ends and then screw those on the grounding block just like you do on the back of your TV. HOWEVER,I would strongly urge you to waterproof all your outdoor connections. At the antenna as well as at the grounding block. I do this by getting a good di-electric grease like you put on the ends of your spark plug wires. You can find tubes of the grease at any automotive store. I then wrap the heck out of it with electrical tape.

It is good that your HOA doesn't balk at erecting antennas, and I know you are not going to argue this, but they cannot stop anyone from erecting what is necessary to recieve TV signals whether it can be seen from the street or not... I just wanted to make the point.
Edited by OTAhead - 3/20/13 at 4:01pm
post #6104 of 6141
I have a splitter with ground point in my on q box in the closet, can I use that ground or does it need to run outside the house to the earth?
post #6105 of 6141
TitanTV added a Channel 20.2 KTXH-DT2 MNT.

All guide listing slots show:
Movie Channel Coming Soon
(Movie)

Can we assume this will be the "Movies!" channel?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movies!

--

TitanTV also added Channel 20.3 as KTXH-DT3 MUNDOFOX. Currently that is Channel 34.1.

There was no Channel 34.1 MUNDOFOX in the TitanTV listings.
And Channel 34.2 is listed as RTVNET (RetroTV) -- it should have been updated to Channel 34.4.
post #6106 of 6141
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwg View Post

TitanTV added a Channel 20.2 KTXH-DT2 MNT.

All guide listing slots show:
Movie Channel Coming Soon
(Movie)

Can we assume this will be the "Movies!" channel?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movies!

since Fox owns both the Fox and My in the market your assumption may be correct
post #6107 of 6141
Interesting. Movies! is on the sub-channel of the Fox O&O in Austin and Memphis. I would have expected it to be added to 26.2 instead. That's good to know that it is going on 20.2 instead.
post #6108 of 6141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin99 View Post

I have a splitter with ground point in my on q box in the closet, can I use that ground or does it need to run outside the house to the earth?

The National Electrical Code actually has specifications for this, though I cannot quote the specific article number. Basically you are supposed to have an EARTH GROUND at the point of penetration/entry to the residence. If you wish to then trench over and connect this new "ground" to your electrical ground, all the better, but doing so does not eliminate the requirement of a dedicated ground at the point of entry. You are allowed to share this ground with other services (i.e., telephone, etc) that share the same common point of entry and/or optionally you could share their ground if it was already there. If you have to sink your own ground rod, there are also specifications for it, including minimum depth to sink it (I think that was 6 feet) and the rod has to be copper clad with a copper-to-copper bonding strap where you connect your ground wire. There is also a minimum specification wire size for your grounding conductor. It's all there in NEC - perhaps someone with a recent copy can provide better details.
post #6109 of 6141
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTAhead View Post

.......snip....

It is good that your HOA doesn't balk at erecting antennas, and I know you are not going to argue this, but they cannot stop anyone from erecting what is necessary to recieve TV signals whether it can be seen from the street or not... I just wanted to make the point.

One fine point of clarification here. Your HOA CAN recommend or suggest what they consider "preferred" locations for your OTA antenna and you might be required to use their preferred location for the antenna so long as doing so does not increase your installation cost or cause unreasonable delay.

The HOA also CANNOT require you to get permission of the architectural control committee, or pay a fee, or fill out any forms.

There are also some other restrictions that your HOA can impose on you. One of those is that they can prohibit you from erecting unusually large or tall antenna arrays that are designed to pull in "out-of-market" locals. - For example, someone in Houston wanting to erect a 70' tower & double-stacked array to pull in Beaumont, TX locals (100 miles away). Most HOA's will balk at that and on that one you will lose.

Note that this applies only to normal receiving antennas. There is no provision for transmitting antennas.

For more details Google for the FCC's OTARD Rule
Edited by Cap'n Preshoot - 4/8/13 at 4:41pm
post #6110 of 6141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap'n Preshoot View Post

The National Electrical Code actually has specifications for this, though I cannot quote the specific article number. Basically you are supposed to have an EARTH GROUND at the point of penetration/entry to the residence. If you wish to then trench over and connect this new "ground" to your electrical ground, all the better, but doing so does not eliminate the requirement of a dedicated ground at the point of entry. You are allowed to share this ground with other services (i.e., telephone, etc) that share the same common point of entry and/or optionally you could share their ground if it was already there. If you have to sink your own ground rod, there are also specifications for it, including minimum depth to sink it (I think that was 6 feet) and the rod has to be copper clad with a copper-to-copper bonding strap where you connect your ground wire. There is also a minimum specification wire size for your grounding conductor. It's all there in NEC - perhaps someone with a recent copy can provide better details.

Due to my new mounting location - I was able to ground outside the home in the proper fashion.
post #6111 of 6141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap'n Preshoot View Post

One fine point of clarification here. Your HOA CAN recommend or suggest what they consider "preferred" locations for your OTA antenna and you might be required to use their preferred location for the antenna so long as doing so does not increase your installation cost or cause unreasonable delay.

The HOA also CANNOT require you to get permission of the architectural control committee, or pay a fee, or fill out any forms.

There are also some other restrictions that your HOA can impose on you. One of those is that they can prohibit you from erecting unusually large or tall antenna arrays that are designed to pull in "out-of-market" locals. - For example, someone in Houston wanting to erect a 70' tower & double-stacked array to pull in Beaumont, TX locals (100 miles away). Most HOA's will balk at that and on that one you will lose.

Note that this applies only to normal receiving antennas. There is no provision for transmitting antennas.

For more details Google for the FCC's OTARD Rule

An Update on this topic. I inquired to my HOA about mounting the antenna on the roof. They stated, that it can be mounted anywhere on the roof "as long as it was not visible from the street". I decided to do some location testing and found that I could mount the antenna on my fence (obscured by my house and a bush from street view) and I am picking up all the channels that I have a need for with great quality. The only time I had a slight issue was w/ a few lower power channels during the major storms a few weeks ago, all the other channels still made it in ok. I am currently pleased w/ my current solution.
post #6112 of 6141
Sub-channel updates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movies!
[Note: You may need to manually tack-on the ! above]

Launch date May 27, 2013
Houston KTXH 20.2

"Movies! is shooting for Memorial Day."


----

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GetTV

Launch date Fall 2013
Houston KFTH-DT 67.2

getTV
Sony Pictures Entertainment
"the channel will be broadcast in English"
post #6113 of 6141
I am not sure whether I am having antenna size issues or antenna mounting location issues or tuner hardware issues.

I have a pretty new Tivo Series 4 that I use for my OTA tuner. My OTA antenna is a Channel Master 2016. It is mounted in a third story attic. No radiant barrier or similar inside the attic (foam insulation), although there is some HVAC flex duct a few feet away. No hills or major obstructions between the antenna and the broadcast stations. All major channels in my area are directly to the south, approximately 13 miles away, so the CM2016 should be more than adequate?

My TVfool link: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d1dda24dbfb3f4b

Here is my issue:

Most of the major channels, except for KPRC (NBC on RF Channel 35) have great signal strength and corresponding SNR. Most channels read 40+ signal strength and 20+ SNR on the Tivo's signal strength meter. When I watch the meters signal strength fluctuates a point or two, but not more than that.

However, KPRC (NBC RF 35) has a wildly fluctuating signal strength and SNR. Over a two minute span I observed 55, 20, 0, 46, 57, 30, 0, 48 for signal strength (with corresponding SNR of 24, 12, 0, 21, 25, 14, 0, and 22). There was no wind or rain. That channel has "stuttering" and "breakup" on the picture and sound, corresponding to the signal fluctuation, and is not watchable for more than a few minutes as a result.

I get inconsistent results on RF channels slightly above and below KPRC RF 35. I get a very high signal strength reading, above 65, from KIAH (CW on RF 38). I get very low and fluctuating signal strength from KPXB (ion RF 32) and from KFTH (Univision RF 36), in a range that fluctuates between zero and 24 for both stations.

Based on the above do you think I have too small an antenna, or, interference from the HVAC ducts/location, or Tivo tuner hardware problems, or something else?

UPDATE: THIS WAS FIXED BY SWITCHING FROM THE NEWER TIVO 4 TO AN OLDER TIVO 3. SIGNAL STRENGTH MORE THAN DOUBLED. THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG/QUIRKY WITH THE NEWER TUNER THAT THE OLDER TUNERS DIDN'T HAVE.
Edited by Brucemck2 - 9/10/13 at 3:46am
post #6114 of 6141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

I am not sure whether I am having antenna size issues or antenna mounting location issues or tuner hardware issues.

Good day from the other side of Texas! I had very similar problems with the Tivo Series 4. I was 25 miles from the mountain that all of our major stations broadcast from and used a large outdoor antenna. The channels on RF 15 and 17 would fluctuate wildly while others on RF 13 and 18 were relatively stable. I tried everything, a different antenna, moving it, etc and nothing helped. I finally started reading over on the Tivo Community forum and found that this is a common problem with the new Tivo's. I was able to locate a "new" Tivo Series 3 marketed as the "Tivo HD" and as soon as I connected it to the antenna all such problems went away.
There are a lot of theories on why the tuner is different in the newer Tivos but as their latest flagship model does not even receive OTA I feel that they are abandoning OTA viewers. I have even talked to a couple of their phone representative who were clueless that a Tivo could even be used with an antenna.
Have you tried connecting your antenna directly to a TV with a built in tuner? If you really want to keep the Tivo you have, you could put in a splitter and watch the problem channel live.
post #6115 of 6141
TitanTV has added CoziTV 57.5 to its listings. And Movies! 20.2 is still just an empty listing placeholder - which is to be expected I suppose.

The official Movies! website:
http://moviestvnetwork.com/
Schedule starts 5/27/2013.
Movie start times are not on the traditional half hour tv schedule.
Edited by kwg - 5/23/13 at 9:21am
post #6116 of 6141
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwg View Post

TitanTV has added CoziTV 57.5 to its listings. And Movies! 20.2 is still just an empty listing placeholder - which is to be expected I suppose.

The official Movies! website:
http://moviestvnetwork.com/
Schedule starts 5/27/2013.
Movie start times are not on the traditional half hour tv schedule.
Confirmed. Movies! will start on 5/27/13. Some movies may not have closed captioning, and Movies! won't be violating FCC violations, since new broadcast entities have a 4 year waiver for CC.
post #6117 of 6141
WTF KPRC? Running infomercials instead of the Monaco Grand Prix?

What idiot made that decision? The most popular F1 race of the year airing on the main network instead of NBC Sports...except in Houston. That's got to make the suits and race fans happy.
post #6118 of 6141
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAF View Post

WTF KPRC? Running infomercials instead of the Monaco Grand Prix?

What idiot made that decision? The most popular F1 race of the year airing on the main network instead of NBC Sports...except in Houston. That's got to make the suits and race fans happy.
I'm sure the suits at Post Newsweek (owner of KPRC) look at the fact that they're probably making more money on infomercials.
post #6119 of 6141
NBC reports Monaco most watched Formula One race in six years

"The Monaco Grand Prix, broadcast live on U.S. network television for the first time, was watched by 1.456 million viewers and scored a 1.0 household rating. It is the most-watched F1 race on U.S. television in six years,"

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130528/f1/130529771

Gee, wonder how that infomercial rated in the Houston market?
post #6120 of 6141
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAF View Post

NBC reports Monaco most watched Formula One race in six years

"The Monaco Grand Prix, broadcast live on U.S. network television for the first time, was watched by 1.456 million viewers and scored a 1.0 household rating. It is the most-watched F1 race on U.S. television in six years,"

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130528/f1/130529771

Gee, wonder how that infomercial rated in the Houston market?
They probably don't care. I'm sure they made more $$ on infomercials.
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