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Norfolk, VA - OTA - Page 5

post #121 of 6660
Quote:


Originally posted by robrien
TByronT: Concerning the no audio on changing a channel with the Voom receiver. This known issue with the Voom box. Do you have the latest update: 6.20 or 7.x. This is not a problem with WVBT-DT.
Regards

How are you reading the firmware version from your Voom box? My numbers look nothing like the ones you suggest. I go to Options & Settings from the VOOM button screen; Choose System Settings; Choose 7. System Status; and I find Secure Firmware Version: V16.
Or, I can pick 8. Installer Menu; 1. Installation Wizard; and find a screen with: Software Version: 01.98.08, C0139, 00.06.20.

Anyway, even if it is a known Voom problem, but it only happens on two stations owned and managed by the same people, there can still be something wrong with the data streams they have created that clashes with the Voom problem.

Byron Thomas
post #122 of 6660
It's HAL version 6.20. Looks like you have it. Voom stopped the 7.x update because of a problem with DVI. I have no ideal why the sounds stops for you. Does not do it here. But that has been a reported bug at www.satelliteguys.us website.

Regards

OB
post #123 of 6660
Quote:


Originally posted by dhahne
Charles,

As of right now (8:25 PM) still no audio on 33-2 on both the Hitachi and Zenith. Side pillars are in place on Gilmore Girls (although I thought that would be broadcast in HD).

Thursday night 33-2 looked good and had sound. There did seem to be a slight lip-sync error at least during Drew Carey's Green Screen.
post #124 of 6660
Quote:
Originally posted by robrien
But that has been a reported bug at www.satelliteguys.us website. Regards OB

Thanks OB for the link to known Voom problems. Thanks also to Les Garrington for getting WAVY fully operational on my Voom receiver again (only lost it 1 day). Isn't software wonderful (but quirky)?

New Subject: As a new HDTV user, I need you station engineers (or others) to please tell this old "analog" engineer WHY most DTV stations are still showing "quasi-digital" data on the top few lines of the picture. I know that these lines were there (in an analog TV signal) as a way of transmitting other data (like test patterns and "closed" caption text). But why would a DTV station pass on these signals -- since they are clearly annoying to a viewer.

I notice that since WTVZ has finally got their side-bars working for 4 X 3 material on 33-2, that they have chosen to hide these data lines, even as 33-1 is still showing them. Other stations are including them even on their 1080i or 720p up-converts.

But, why do they still need to show up in a DTV picture? Surely there is room in the digital signal to transmit any kind of data needed, as separate streams, without that data showing up in the picture...
post #125 of 6660
The Cowboys/Packers game didn't come out of SD on WVBT-DT (43-1) after two breaks. The HD version can be seen on DirecTV 96...

post #126 of 6660
Data on the top few lines of the picture I must admit that I'm lost here...are you saying that there is something besides the program material showing on your screen?

Quote:


Originally posted by TByronT

New Subject: As a new HDTV user, I need you station engineers (or others) to please tell this old "analog" engineer WHY most DTV stations are still showing "quasi-digital" data on the top few lines of the picture. I know that these lines were there (in an analog TV signal) as a way of transmitting other data (like test patterns and "closed" caption text). But why would a DTV station pass on these signals -- since they are clearly annoying to a viewer.
post #127 of 6660
Quote:


Originally posted by TByronT
New Subject: As a new HDTV user, I need you station engineers (or others) to please tell this old "analog" engineer WHY most DTV stations are still showing "quasi-digital" data on the top few lines of the picture. I know that these lines were there (in an analog TV signal) as a way of transmitting other data (like test patterns and "closed" caption text). But why would a DTV station pass on these signals -- since they are clearly annoying to a viewer.

I notice that since WTVZ has finally got their side-bars working for 4 X 3 material on 33-2, that they have chosen to hide these data lines, even as 33-1 is still showing them. Other stations are including them even on their 1080i or 720p up-converts.

But, why do they still need to show up in a DTV picture? Surely there is room in the digital signal to transmit any kind of data needed, as separate streams, without that data showing up in the picture...

The reason you see the lines on DTV, particularly on 33-1 are because the SD signal is an upconverted analog signal. They should not however be visible and I'm looking into that. The same is true for the HD signal during non-prime hours although I have more direct control over that and was able to mask them out.
post #128 of 6660
Have there been any changes with the Fox broadcast in the last week?

My sunday Fox HD experience up until last week's MLB playoff games had been unwatchable because of freeze-ups etc. But starting sometime last week, it was just a gorgeous picture every night. Yesterday, I watched about half of the packers-cowboys game without any problems whatsoever. I haven't changed anything on my end in the last 7 days. Definitely not complaining but I'm not sure why it would all of a sudden start working perfectly.

Steve
post #129 of 6660
TH3_FRB,

If your HDTV "overscans" (like a CRT projection unit) its possible these "data" lines don't show up on your screen. I have a PC using a 23" Widescreen LCD (native resolution 1920 X 1200 pixels with 16:10 aspect ratio). My Voom OTA/Satellite receiver drives its separate DVI-D input. The LCD maps HDTV pictures perfectly to 1920 X 1080 pixels of my display. 60 black pixel rows at the top and bottom of the picture fill out the screen to give me a proper 16:9 picture. So, I see everything transmitted.

Quote:


Originally posted by crouse
The reason you see the lines on DTV, particularly on 33-1 are because the SD signal is an upconverted analog signal. They should not however be visible and I'm looking into that. The same is true for the HD signal during non-prime hours although I have more direct control over that and was able to mask them out.

Charles,

I was using WTVZ as a GOOD example. When you upconvert non-HD 4:3 material on 33-2 to HD 1080i, these top few "data" lines are being blanked out, as they should be. Although, your older 480i DTV signal encoder on 33-1 is still showing them.

What I really want to know is why the other local DTV broadcasters are not making this same effort to remove these annoying artifacts, when you have demonstrated that modern encoders can hide them.

Actually, any DTV signal, whether 480i, 720p, or 1080i, must have some type of encoder (processor) to digitize any analog TV signal and convert it to digital form. The processor's firmware can blank these "top" lines before it digitizes them (if the programmer provided for it). I think they are lines 1 and 2 of each 60 Hz interlaced field?
post #130 of 6660
Quote:


Originally posted by TByronT
What I really want to know is why the other local DTV broadcasters are not making this same effort to remove these annoying artifacts, when you have demonstrated that modern encoders can hide them.

Closed caption decoders in analog sets being fed from the composite outputs of DTV receivers still rely on the CC data embedded in line 21. In fact that's how I monitor closed captioning in my office, with a hookup just like this. If and when NTSC transmitters are forced to be shut down then it just might be that lots of hearing impaired households might not be able to afford anything else for a while. When every device out there being used to receive and display our signal supports EIA-708B captioning then perhaps the FCC will let us shut line 21 off, but we are also using data in other lines for various other functions in the field. Frankly this is the first complaint we've had about it.
post #131 of 6660
Quote:


Originally posted by Les Garrenton
Closed caption decoders in analog sets being fed from the composite outputs of DTV receivers still rely on the CC data embedded in line 21. In fact that's how I monitor closed captioning in my office, with a hookup just like this. If and when NTSC transmitters are forced to be shut down then it just might be that lots of hearing impaired households might not be able to afford anything else for a while. When every device out there being used to receive and display our signal supports EIA-708B captioning then perhaps the FCC will let us shut line 21 off, but we are also using data in other lines for various other functions in the field. Frankly this is the first complaint we've had about it.

I would hope the FCC will take into consideration most households especially the elderly who probably might be hearing impaired can't afford the hi-tech, high-cost equipment some are using. Everyone must give a little for the common good. Television cannot become the media of the affluent only.
post #132 of 6660
Got to agree with Les. My first thought was if you are receiving the digital channel then that device would decode CC. But... What about hotels, hospitals, cable cos, dbs that may/could receive the DTV signal and then remodulate to NTSC? Time for some overscan
post #133 of 6660
Les (and others),

Thanks for the information on Line 21. I have just tried it with both of WAVY's 10-1 (HD upconvert) and 10-2 (480i) DTV signals. Sure enough, I get closed captions on both programs when I mute my analog TV. Even though these signals are transmitted as just a "compressed bag of bits", the reconstructed analog data lines can still do their "data thing". When you get time, you might comment what the other data lines are for, and if any of them are still required by FCC in DTV transmissions.

I have a 60 ft S-Video (and stereo L+R) cable running between my Voom OTA/satellite receiver in my bedroom/computer room and the big screen analog TV in my living room. This lets me view the OTA/Satellite programs in there using a Remote Control relay. Nobody is making a UWB wireless link yet. The HP 23" HDTV Widescreen Monitor is on my computer in bedroom, and it also connects to the HDTV outputs of the Voom OTA/Satellite box (Component Video and DVI-D). The Component Video input to my monitor "overscans" enough to hide these data signals, but the DVI-D output shows everything.

Which begs the question. Since an HDTV monitor does not have a tuner, there should be no reason for the FCC to "require" it to show these data lines, since it can't decode them anyway. I hope that set top box manufacturers will soon provide firmware options to either blank out these data lines or slightly overscan to hide them. I can't overscan on my particular monitor because its a 16:10 screen showing a 16:9 picture (with 5/8" black bars top and bottom).

That's probably why you have never got a complaint about them before: most HDTV's may overscan a little. Also, I am an engineer, and am not really complaining, but I did want an explanation -- which you were nice enough to give me. Mystery solved!

Thanks, B. Thomas
post #134 of 6660
lip synch is off on 33.2 again tonight...seems to be a recurring problem with this channel...same thing last week. Can we determine if it's a local problem or screwed-up from the network level?
post #135 of 6660
Quote:


Originally posted by TH3_FRB
lip synch is off on 33.2 again tonight...

It's way off. Watching Gilmore Girls on 33-2...
post #136 of 6660
Yep...my girlfriend even noticed it and asked if we could switch to the SD channel. I was trying to suffer through the audio problems to enjoy the HD. One Tree Hill seems to be better...but it's still off a little.

Quote:


Originally posted by VARTV
It's way off. Watching Gilmore Girls on 33-2...
post #137 of 6660
Thanks for the heads up, I'll be looking into this
post #138 of 6660
Hi Gang,

We have added full Program Guide information to our PSIP data on UPN 27-1. This includes not only the program titles, but full descriptions of the episodes. You should see program data for what is on now, and out to the next 24 hours.

I also changed a couple of playout timing parameters that should help things work better.

Please take a look at it for me and see how it works on your receivers.

Thanks,

George Randell
Chief Engineer
WGNT/WGNT-DT UPN 27-1
Viacom in Norfolk
post #139 of 6660
George,

Looking good here on an LG DST-3100A...
post #140 of 6660
WGNT UPN PSIP Data

How does one view this guide info. I have a RCA DT-100 tuner built into the tv. When on 27-1 and I press the info button all I see is the station name, number, time of day, show title but no description. Also how do you look ahead at the guide? I also have a Dishnetwork 921 receiver with an OTA DT receiver. On the Dishnetwork the OTA DT stations are integrated into the Dishnetwork programming guide but their is no info listed in the guide info space for WGNT DT. So I have two receivers that don't see it. I could try my Dishnetwork 6000 and see if that reads it. I expect it won't.
Earl

I should add that I have seen programming descriptions on one of the other DT stations, think WAVY but don't remember. With the RCA receiver when I press the info button I get the data header and a program description of the current program but I don't know how to look ahead.
post #141 of 6660
Audio is messed up on Monsters Inc on WVEC tonight. Not DD5.1 and center channel is muffled. WRIC is coming through fine in 5.1.
post #142 of 6660
Last night I recorded "Medical Investigation" on WAVY-DT in HD on my Dishnetwork 921 receiver. When I played it back tonight, the main audio center channel was missing for the first 40 minutes of the program. The 921 has had some problems but mine has been perfect, was this a problem or a network/local problem? Did nobody else watch this show last night or was it a problem at my end?

Earl
post #143 of 6660
Quote:


Originally posted by Earl Dunham
WGNT UPN PSIP Data

How does one view this guide info. I have a RCA DT-100 tuner built into the tv. When on 27-1 and I press the info button all I see is the station name, number, time of day, show title but no description. Also how do you look ahead at the guide? I also have a Dishnetwork 921 receiver with an OTA DT receiver. On the Dishnetwork the OTA DT stations are integrated into the Dishnetwork programming guide but their is no info listed in the guide info space for WGNT DT. So I have two receivers that don't see it. I could try my Dishnetwork 6000 and see if that reads it. I expect it won't.
Earl

I should add that I have seen programming descriptions on one of the other DT stations, think WAVY but don't remember. With the RCA receiver when I press the info button I get the data header and a program description of the current program but I don't know how to look ahead.

I have found that some of the receivers display the Program Guide information and some don't. Some show all of it, some show part of it. I hope others here can help you with the particulars of your receivers.

Of the on-air stations in town, the last time I check, WAVY, WHRO, and now WGNT were including this data in their transmissions.

On the older RCA sets press "Info" on the remote to get the name of the current program. Pressing Info again shows the description of the episode. The guide display also offers a path to current and future show titles. When in the guide, highlight a title and press info for episodic information.

The Zenith we have at work will not display any Program information.

The Samsung I have at home will display either a "mini-guide" that shows the lineup for the station you are tuned to, or a "full guide" that displays Program Listings for several channels at once. From the "full guide" one can retrieve episodic info by highlighting the program in question and pressing the "info" button on the remote.

I can't speak to the operational aspects of other receivers. One would hope that over time all of the manufacturers would incorporate guide info display into their products.
post #144 of 6660
George, thanks for the response. It did help me sort some things out. With my RCA DT and its internal turner I can now see the program info for the current program I am viewing on WGNT-DT. I normally use a universal remote that is programmed to work the Dishnetwork, TV, and stereo system. When I went back to the remote that came with the TV it does have a guide button. When tuned to WGNT-DT if I press the guide button on this remote I get a guide of WGNT-DT info for future programs. I can highlight a future program time and get a program description of a future show. This is great, works just like my Dishnetwork guide and like digital cable.
The Dishnetwork receiver still does not have OTA guide info for any of the local stations. I believe this is a known problem with this receiver and will hopefully be fixed in a future software update.
post #145 of 6660
Quote:


Originally posted by Earl Dunham
WGNT UPN PSIP Data
I could try my Dishnetwork 6000 and see if that reads it. I expect it won't.
Earl

Don't bother, Earl. My 6000 has never picked up ANY PSIP info, other than virtual channel numbers.

Think I'll contact Dish, to try to find out if it can be addressed with a downloaded software update. I'll post what I find out... if anything.

Any input from Bill Bibeau ? I remember that you have a 6000. Do you know any more about this than we do?
post #146 of 6660
Quote:


Originally posted by johncchester
Don't bother, Earl. My 6000 has never picked up ANY PSIP info, other than virtual channel numbers.

Think I'll contact Dish, to try to find out if it can be addressed with a downloaded software update. I'll post what I find out... if anything.

Any input from Bill Bibeau ? I remember that you have a 6000. Do you know any more about this than we do?

I contacted Dish some time ago and according to them, the 6000 cannot pick up all the PSIP data. They say you will have to buy another receiver in the future. For what they cost, I'll stick with this receiver till it dies!
post #147 of 6660
Quote:


Originally posted by BillBibeau
I contacted Dish some time ago and according to them, the 6000 cannot pick up all the PSIP data. They say you will have to buy another receiver in the future. For what they cost, I'll stick with this receiver till it dies!

AMEN! Thanks, Bill.
post #148 of 6660
I just got a software update from 3.1.5-01-2-357 to 3.1.5e-01-2-357...
post #149 of 6660
I have been experiencing severe breakup of the 13.1 signal all day. Other stations OK. Anyone else having this problem?

Drew
post #150 of 6660
Quote:


Originally posted by HILLTOP SAILOR
I have been experiencing severe breakup of the 13.1 signal all day. Other stations OK. Anyone else having this problem?
Drew

No problems here Drew. It has been fine on my receiver at home, but again, the tower literally is in my back yard!
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